This all reminds me of the Allister Coetzee Springbok years. Rassie came in and sorted everything out in a matter of months.Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:21 amWe've got bigger problems than winning tournaments.
Our whole national union is a mess right now. If this isn't sorted, straightened and cleaned up properly and in good time then kiss winning RWCs goodbye for years.
It’s about more than losing a few games, to me at least.average joe wrote: ↑Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:18 amThis all reminds me of the Allister Coetzee Springbok years. Rassie came in and sorted everything out in a matter of months.Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:21 amWe've got bigger problems than winning tournaments.
Our whole national union is a mess right now. If this isn't sorted, straightened and cleaned up properly and in good time then kiss winning RWCs goodbye for years.
Besides that, just look at you guy's. Lose a few games against a better team and you're all eating each other.
Airport terminal, no?
All Blacks head coach Ian Foster is understood to have been told by his New Zealand Rugby bosses that they expect him to resign if his side loses in South Africa or fails to show definitive improvements.
The Herald understands the request was made by NZR chief executive Mark Robinson and general manager of professional rugby Chris Lendrum at a tense meeting at Foster's house a few days after the All Blacks had lost the series to Ireland.
At the same meeting Foster presented his plan to reshape his coaching team by axing assistant coaches John Plumtree and Brad Mooar and bring in Crusaders forwards supremo Jason Ryan.
That move was approved, but Foster was then told it may not be enough to save his job and that he was being given the series against South Africa to prove whether he is the right man to carry on as head coach.
It is believed that when he was told that he should resign if performances and results don't measure up in South Africa, Foster made it clear that if Robinson wants him out, he will have to sack him.
The inability of that exchange to provide any certainty about what will happen to the All Blacks head coach has added to the sense that there is a growing disconnect between Robinson and Foster.
Signs of disunity first emerged on the Sunday following the third test loss to Ireland, when after a pre-arranged media conference with Foster was cancelled without communication, Robinson issued a statement in which he said: "The performance across the series for the All Blacks was not acceptable."
A week later, after having not spoken publicly since issuing the statement after the third test, Robinson appeared on Jason Pine's Newstalk ZB show, and said: "As we've signalled he's certainly the person to lead the team to South Africa and we're making sure that we've got everything possible in the way of resourcing and support to make sure that's successful."
The inference was clear – that Foster is only definitely in charge for the next two tests, but no details have been offered as to what results the All Blacks need to achieve or what performance criteria they need to meet for him to keep his job.
Speculation has arisen that the All Blacks will need to win at least one of the two tests, but it is not known whether that has specifically been laid down to the coach and nor is it clear what will happen if they lose both and Foster can't be persuaded to fall on his sword.
Robinson was asked to confirm whether Foster has been given specific feedback on what is expected of the All Blacks in South Africa and whether he's also been told of the consequences of those targets not being met. He said he couldn't comment on any discussions held with high-performance personnel.
This move to encourage Foster to resign is thought to be related to a reluctance on the part of NZR to incur yet more termination costs. The national body had to buy Mooar out of a three-year contract with the Scarlets club in Wales back in 2020 – with reports suggesting the cost of that was around $400,000.
They then had to pay Mooar again and Plumtree when their two-year All Blacks contracts were terminated with about 18 months left to run. Both men are likely to have been earning about $500,000 a year in their All Blacks jobs.
Foster, who is believed to be paid close to $1million a year, would come with an expensive pay-out if he's sacked and its likely that if he were to be replaced, the new head coach would want to bring in his own people which would see the remainder of the current contracted All Blacks staff – Scott McLeod, Greg Feek and Andrew Strawbridge – also having to be paid out.
The total cost of terminating the contracts of Foster and his wider coaching team could be in excess of $3m depending on what compromises can be reached.
This is what had me curious, there surely are some in there - most likely competition based so a 75% win rate in RC sees the ticket home?
All games under Foster matter as they determine his win ratio.
I doubt there are actual numbers in his contract but it would be one of the key figures NZR look at when deciding whether or not to keep the SFM* on as head coach
How about old mate uses the performance clause to f'kin resign himself?
Well, if the coach has a watertight contract, they'll pay out regardless.
It’s got nothing to do with Silverlake, their partnership is seperate to the running of the team, it’s an intellectual property type of deal.
You continue to give Graham Henry a pass.Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:25 am
... What shits me about this is that while the results on the field are poor enough, with the team being beaten at the basics of rugby….
It’s about the process that saw this coach appointed ... a privileged few ... with jobs given to mates…
and it all seems to have stemmed from the days of the Steves, Tew and Hansen ...
And to those who thought Ireland were really really good rather than us being bad I present exhibit b.EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:14 pm Too late to get rid of him now. Have to hold onto him Foreverand everand everand everand ever
We've already been insulted today by Fozzie saying that todays loss, was a better performance than your win against us, in the 1st testYmx wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:52 pmAnd to those who thought Ireland were really really good rather than us being bad I present exhibit b.EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:14 pm Too late to get rid of him now. Have to hold onto him Foreverand everand everand everand ever
100% correct. Henry bears as much responsibility as anyone, and certainly more than Hansen and Tew.convoluted wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:04 pmYou continue to give Graham Henry a pass.Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:25 am
... What shits me about this is that while the results on the field are poor enough, with the team being beaten at the basics of rugby….
It’s about the process that saw this coach appointed ... a privileged few ... with jobs given to mates…
and it all seems to have stemmed from the days of the Steves, Tew and Hansen ...
But the make-up of the 5 who chose between Foster or Robertson surely saw the other panelists defer to Henry's dictate.
And Henry's call at the time was that Robertson was a green and callow youth: "I think he will be the All Black coach, it's just a matter of time. He's 45, isn't he? He's just a baby as far as coaches are concerned, very talented, very enthusiastic ... he's just got to be a bit patient".
Henry's later lament that prior to opening nominations the NZRU let other quality coaches be snapped up abroad stresses that he would have chosen anyone else over The Kid.
Its never as simple as changing players. It’s how those players are playing.
You are a very naughty man.EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:46 pm Look this Saffer team are massively strong. They need to keep cool heads
Sooooooo much thisEnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:46 pm Look this Saffer team are massively strong. They need to keep cool heads
As you've pointed out, some of it IS as simple as changing playersGuy Smiley wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:44 amIts never as simple as changing players. It’s how those players are playing.
These guys are poorly coached. The game plan seems non existent. It looks like waiting to capitalise on mistakes and score… but there’s no system evident that puts pressure on.
That said though… our halves don’t direct the game. The backline isn’t set up by them. The loosies aren’t balanced.
I’d play Cullen Grace at 8, Ardie at 7. Fakatava starting and it’s time Mo’unga was given a run at 10 without Barrett on the field. Ethan de Groot deserves a start.
“Fat Moron Foster” wrote:”I felt it was probably our most improved performance this year,” said Foster. “I felt in some areas we really shifted our game forward. In a game dominated by defence, we defended well, but our timing was out on the attack side and we’re going to have to have a look at that.”
Foster believes the All Blacks managed to combat the Springboks‘ driving game and believes his team is working very hard to get back to good form but was a “bit over-eager” on the day.
“We always knew it was going to be tough, and we felt that tonight. But we’ve got to take some things out of there we’ve made some big shifts in. We nullified a large part of their driving game, defensively we made some shifts and in that last quarter we were opening things up but started to snatch at a couple of balls which is frustrating,” he added.
“We’re coming off a lost test series, and there’s a lot of noise around this team now. We’re trying our best to just focus on our performance, but you feel that. When a team is working really hard to get its game to a level it wants, sometimes you get a bit over-eager, and there was some of that today.
“We’ve got to look at today, and just calm down and say we’ve got one more chance at Ellis Park to win a trophy that’s pretty special to us. They had the first bite at it and we’ve got to respond. Part of that is going to be absorbing the lessons, relax and take a moment on the ball and get our skillsets right.”
Outside noise
The 57-year-old says his time must not be immersed in the outside noise and reiterated that he felt the All Blacks showed signs of improvement.
“It’s not a matter of shutting it out – it’s there all the time. If you spend too much time immersed in it, it doesn’t do the team any good. We know we’ve had a couple of losses, [but] in all honesty I thought we shifted up a couple of cogs in this test, and made some significant improvement,” he said.
“We’re excited about going to Ellis Park … losing today means we’ll pull out the positives and give it everything we’ve got which is what people should expect out of an All Blacks team.”
Foster understands the frustration with the All Blacks’ performance but insists panicking is not the right move.
“I know people are frustrated, and we’re frustrated with the results,” he added, “But you don’t achieve growth if you get too panicky and start making dramatic changes and put too much pressure on players. We want them to feel the pressure tonight, understand what it’s like playing test matches over here, and we’ve got to be sharper in what we do.
“I fully believe in the skillsets of the players we’ve got.”
Agree with this. Not sure what you do with the midfield options, and Jordan should be at 15 despite his shocker as Jordie has unfixable problems with his game and Jordan is class.Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:44 amIts never as simple as changing players. It’s how those players are playing.
These guys are poorly coached. The game plan seems non existent. It looks like waiting to capitalise on mistakes and score… but there’s no system evident that puts pressure on.
That said though… our halves don’t direct the game. The backline isn’t set up by them. The loosies aren’t balanced.
I’d play Cullen Grace at 8, Ardie at 7. Fakatava starting and it’s time Mo’unga was given a run at 10 without Barrett on the field. Ethan de Groot deserves a start.
Something special and they just have to “keep showing it” - so he already thinks we’ve had glimpses of the magic.
Foster's only ally is time. The closer it gets to the RWC, the harder it gets for NZR to sack him. Other contenders will decide it's a hopeless task and fuck off for better money and less stress.
OPINION: The accusation that the All Blacks are rudderless is unfair. They have plenty of rudders. The problem is that most of those rudders are pointing in different directions and the rest of the rudders are broken.
Sadly, the coach and the captain are broken. The picture of Sam Cane lying on the ground as Willie le Roux cantered over the line for the final try of the emphatic defeat to South Africa was stark and symbolic. The caption ‘down and out’ immediately came to mind.
Cane should be given time away from this environment to heal. The same is true for Foster. Both men need a break from the game. My understanding is that cutting Foster loose will also not cost the type of money that has been put out there.
There is surely a break clause in the contracts of all the All Blacks coaches given the hasty nature of last year’s contract extensions.
Stewart Mitchell, the chairman of the board, is a business consultant and there is plenty of other financial savvy on that NZ Rugby board. It is almost unthinkable that there would not be a break clause.
It should also be noted that the hiring and firing of the All Blacks coach is ultimately the responsibility of the board. I suspect from what he has said that Foster may be gone by now if it were down to Mark Robinson, the CEO.
But Robinson does not have the power to make that call. It is down to the board. They are responsible for the appointment of the coach and of the CEO.
And it wasn’t just the series loss to Ireland that has cost Foster his job security. There was also fury amongst senior management that the Sunday press conference after the series defeat by Ireland was cancelled and at appallingly short notice. That was seen as unacceptable and just about unprecedented. It was also seen as weak and an affront to the country.
So Foster really is on borrowed time. Under those circumstances it is not unreasonable to surmise that the appointment of Jason Ryan as forwards coach was also a way of preparing the ground for Scott Robertson, should he feel able to take over from Foster.
There is a contingency plan in place should Foster fail, and unfortunately there can be no doubt that he is failing, by his own admission.
When he took the job Foster said: “It’s up to me to show you that I’m innovative, I’ve got a sense of direction about where I want this team to go and to really grow and to get some mana back on the field which we felt we’ve lost a little bit”.
By his own words shall we judge him. Even the haka is now unconvincing. That mana has gone up in smoke. South Africa have far more ethnic challenges than New Zealand, far more healing to do from their brutal history, but they were the only team with mana on Saturday.
I remember a ball going loose from another aerial challenge and the two captains dived for it. But it was inevitably Siya Kolisi who regathered. There is only one rainbow nation and it is not the men in black. How evident that was on the pitch. South Africa were pulling in one direction, however limited. New Zealand didn’t know what they were up to.
There was one stark symbol of that muddle when Jordie Barrett came up for a high ball and Cane took him out in the air. Downed by his own captain. A couple of minutes later, Scott Barrett and Will Jordan also collided. And they are Super Rugby teammates.
So when I talk about rudders pointing in different directions, I think about Beauden Barrett and Richie Mo’unga or Jordie Barrett and Will Jordan. Did Jordan touch the ball in the first half? The Barrett brothers (Scott excepted who with Sam Whitelock was the All Blacks’ best on Saturday) were playing their own personal game. And not very well.
When Jordie gave Beauden the ball at the start of the match, Beauden shuffled infield and seemed to have no idea where he was going. It was symbolic. There was another moment when Handre Pollard missed touch from a penalty and Beauden had Caleb Clarke outside him, completely unmarked. Instead he kicked the ball back to South Africa.
There was a lot of that. New Zealand are short of territory in recent matches because Beauden’s choice of options has been poor. The moment Richie Mo’unga came on, that changed. He and David Havili went ping, ping and pinned South Africa in their 22. Unfortunately the All Blacks seemed so surprised to be there that they coughed the ball up.
The other huge difference that Mo’unga made was in his ability to attack the outside shoulder of the rush defence. Beauden was forever cutting back inside and losing momentum. By all means give the inside ball, but running back into the cover gave Malcolm Marx the opportunity for many a turnover.
I don’t think that Foster can save his job now. The noise is too loud. But imagine the irony if he now turned to the Crusaders as his saviours. Foster didn’t want one as captain. He does not want one as number eight. He does not want one as first five. He doesn’t want one as fullback. And he certainly doesn’t want one as coach. In fact, in nearly all the big decision-making positions Foster has turned elsewhere.
But it may be his only way out. When Foster heeded Beauden Barrett’s call that he wanted back in at No 10, he gave away his authority. Previous coaches would have rapped Beauden down and said that he would play where he was picked. But Foster gave into it.
It was the moment his number was up. From then on the Barretts have been largely running the show. That’s natural. They’re brothers. Who else are they going to be closer to. But it has not been good for the All Blacks.
Beauden and Jordie are both terrific athletic talents but they are not tactical geniuses. That shows in their lack of silverware. So it’s time to move this show on.
That goes back to the four horsemen of the apocalypse: Steve Tew, Steve Hansen, Graham Henry and Brent Impey. They came up with the absurd continuity theory.
Did they not think that all the beautiful minds in sport over the previous century would have tested that out? Liverpool Football Club did and it ultimately failed because the next in line is not always a brilliant head coach.
Liverpool discovered it for the nonsense it is, which is why they now have Jurgen Klopp in charge and are reaching for the stars. But the four horsemen believed their own foolishness and gave this country Foster.
“Keep the legacy,” said Impey, as pal Foster was ushered into his seat, “but refresh at the same time because this is a dynamic situation.”
Yeah, right. Lose to Argentina for the first time in history. Lose a home series to Ireland for the first time in history with record scores. Lose to South Africa by the worst score since 1928.
Sadly, the All Blacks are now a laughing stock. My Scottish mate asked if we could keep Foster in place until Scotland play New Zealand in November. Another commenter said; “I’m Welsh. Can we play you. I mean we are awful but who knows.”
Foster’s tenure is hanging by a thread. Why? “Is there a scissor shortage in New Zealand?’’ posted one online wit. It’s hard to argue with such gallows humour.
