Saying those words alone should have been grounds for dismissalKiwias wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:22 amFoster summed it up best with this commentShame he did not expand on the reality of this statement and any reasons for the ABs now being down at 5th.The first five Tests this year were always going to be immensely tough. It's not often we play five Tests in a row against teams that are basically ranked higher than us in the world.
FOSTER - NOW GONE 🎉 - congrats kiwis
To be fair, in most of the tests you’ve been pretty plucky.
“It was a pet, not an animal. It had a name, you don't eat things with names, this is horrific!”
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(Former All Black coach John Hart said) "If we look back, Ian Foster would have to agree himself he probably made a mistake last year by not listening to ... the concerns the players had about his coaching staff.
"Now that's been addressed, probably a bit late, but now it's addressed and they have what I think is a very good coaching team led by Ian Foster, who you've got to say has total support of the players. A team cannot perform like they did at Ellis Park last weekend if they are not united and in support of their coach.
... ...
Asked if the backing of the players played a big role in Foster keeping his job, Hart said: "You've got to be careful as there's always the view that the players have a vested interest in having the coach that is picking them, but there's a lot of maturity in those senior players as the sort of guys that were standing out and talking – David Havili, Sam Whitelock, Ardie Savea – they've been around a long while and they will want what is best for the All Blacks and to win.
"They obviously have confidence in Ian Foster and I know they have a lot of confidence in Jason Ryan and certainly Joe Schmidt.
"Now that's been addressed, probably a bit late, but now it's addressed and they have what I think is a very good coaching team led by Ian Foster, who you've got to say has total support of the players. A team cannot perform like they did at Ellis Park last weekend if they are not united and in support of their coach.
... ...
Asked if the backing of the players played a big role in Foster keeping his job, Hart said: "You've got to be careful as there's always the view that the players have a vested interest in having the coach that is picking them, but there's a lot of maturity in those senior players as the sort of guys that were standing out and talking – David Havili, Sam Whitelock, Ardie Savea – they've been around a long while and they will want what is best for the All Blacks and to win.
"They obviously have confidence in Ian Foster and I know they have a lot of confidence in Jason Ryan and certainly Joe Schmidt.
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One wonders how those players could "certainly" have confidence in Schmidt, given they've never been coached by him.convoluted wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:49 pm (Former All Black coach John Hart said) "If we look back, Ian Foster would have to agree himself he probably made a mistake last year by not listening to ... the concerns the players had about his coaching staff.
"Now that's been addressed, probably a bit late, but now it's addressed and they have what I think is a very good coaching team led by Ian Foster, who you've got to say has total support of the players. A team cannot perform like they did at Ellis Park last weekend if they are not united and in support of their coach.
... ...
Asked if the backing of the players played a big role in Foster keeping his job, Hart said: "You've got to be careful as there's always the view that the players have a vested interest in having the coach that is picking them, but there's a lot of maturity in those senior players as the sort of guys that were standing out and talking – David Havili, Sam Whitelock, Ardie Savea – they've been around a long while and they will want what is best for the All Blacks and to win.
"They obviously have confidence in Ian Foster and I know they have a lot of confidence in Jason Ryan and certainly Joe Schmidt.
Never going to say never but both the coach and the players have to front up before I will be bothered with them.convoluted wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:07 am Is nobody thinking of Enzedder?
Didn't he pledge to never watch the All Blacks again while Foster remained as coach?
Now that Fozz has them fizzing, when do you reckon Enz will return to the fold?
Game in Hamilton next week and I am certainly not lining up for a ticket. None of my mates are either - fuck'em. We work hard for our money - why shouldn't they?
I drink and I forget things.
So Schmidt obviously coached them during their only dominant victory this year.
He has also been doing the analysis. It made me laugh when I heard Ardie big up “Fos” and credited him for pointing out the key corrections the forwards needed to make after the first test. Schmidt wasn’t on the trip, so his analysis feedback would have gone directly to Foster. I’m not saying Foster took credit and claimed it as his own … but well I am.
He has also been doing the analysis. It made me laugh when I heard Ardie big up “Fos” and credited him for pointing out the key corrections the forwards needed to make after the first test. Schmidt wasn’t on the trip, so his analysis feedback would have gone directly to Foster. I’m not saying Foster took credit and claimed it as his own … but well I am.
Well, now that hope of removing that parasite is gone, I guess it’s time to start fully backing them again.
Until they lose the Bledisloe to a faltering Aus team, that is.
Although I am somewhat comforted by having some safe hands there in Ryan and Schmidt.
Until they lose the Bledisloe to a faltering Aus team, that is.
Although I am somewhat comforted by having some safe hands there in Ryan and Schmidt.
- Guy Smiley
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The sad and slightly maddening thing is that this is just so much bullshit and spin thrown up to try and show NZR, it's CEO and board, in a positive light...
and it's failed. Utterly. We see our proudest national institution turned into a laughing stock before us.
The national All Black industry, like most of our privileged and entitled groups, won't even stop to consider some honest self appraisal in the rush to throw a positive spin over a clusterfuck of epic proportions. The usual players (pardon that pun) will either be trotted out or prance their own way into some limelight to genuflect appropriately and instil guilt or shame into anyone who dares to question the mantra.
Fuck em. We are being led by donkeys over this and the price we pay will likely be years in the doldrums... this is long term damage here kids... it's from the boardroom down and it's called a stinking mess of mediocrity.
Pretending that Fozzie has somehow conjured up this miracle off his own bat is fucking laughable considering the injection of genuine coaching talent he's just received straight up the large and fleshy baggy arse he brings to the table. The board stand behind their man... pinning all of us to that donkey until the next RWC is done. Perhaps changing coach now would be just too difficult... I mean, the Saffas managed it but y'know we're not South Africa and our circumstances are different and won't everyone just support our farmers and stop complaining about the water... etc.
and it's failed. Utterly. We see our proudest national institution turned into a laughing stock before us.
The national All Black industry, like most of our privileged and entitled groups, won't even stop to consider some honest self appraisal in the rush to throw a positive spin over a clusterfuck of epic proportions. The usual players (pardon that pun) will either be trotted out or prance their own way into some limelight to genuflect appropriately and instil guilt or shame into anyone who dares to question the mantra.
Fuck em. We are being led by donkeys over this and the price we pay will likely be years in the doldrums... this is long term damage here kids... it's from the boardroom down and it's called a stinking mess of mediocrity.
Pretending that Fozzie has somehow conjured up this miracle off his own bat is fucking laughable considering the injection of genuine coaching talent he's just received straight up the large and fleshy baggy arse he brings to the table. The board stand behind their man... pinning all of us to that donkey until the next RWC is done. Perhaps changing coach now would be just too difficult... I mean, the Saffas managed it but y'know we're not South Africa and our circumstances are different and won't everyone just support our farmers and stop complaining about the water... etc.
Squidge's analysis... there is no way on Earth that Foster suddenly came up with this stuff... what, kept it hidden from the players for 3 years.. and then suddenly, when he has two new coaches... he thinks of all this stuff? Suddenly changes the way the All Blacks play?
Last edited by Grandpa on Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That’s nearly a week old.Chilli wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:49 pm Fucking Whining Kiwi's.
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/its-emba ... ks-crisis/
No fucking spine .
Henry was being defensive over his continuation theory.
Brush up for gods sake man!
It would amuse me if the Foster regime did rather well leading up to the RWC and then performed pretty well at said RWC, leaving the Bored of NZ Rugby no other option other than continuing with Foster and Joe.Ymx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:19 pmThat’s nearly a week old.Chilli wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:49 pm Fucking Whining Kiwi's.
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/its-emba ... ks-crisis/
No fucking spine .
Henry was being defensive over his continuation theory.
Brush up for gods sake man!
SR could then hone his skills by taking over the Boks.
Our two best performances BY FAR this year were the first test vs Ireland when Foster was absent with Covid, and the Jo'burg test when it was a do-or-die, all-or-nothing situation. The rest have been history-making horseshit.
Justin Marshall's right - all these crappy losses are seriously tarnishing the All Blacks legacy. If Foster's the decent man everyone says he is, he would do the decent thing and resign.
Justin Marshall's right - all these crappy losses are seriously tarnishing the All Blacks legacy. If Foster's the decent man everyone says he is, he would do the decent thing and resign.
- Guy Smiley
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If los Pumas defeat the ABs in Hamilton, the ABs drop to 6th in the world rankings...
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... n-hamilton
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... n-hamilton
Fire Sale... Everything Must GoThe All Blacks will fall to another record low in the world rankings if they lose to Argentina in Hamilton on Saturday, dropping down to No 6.
Following the 25-18 defeat to the Pumas in Christchurch last weekend, Ian Foster’s team fell back to fifth in the rankings, having risen to No 4 the previous week after defeating the Springboks at Ellis Park.
Being at No 5 is the lowest the All Blacks have ever been since the world rugby rankings were introduced in 2003.
Read more about the All Blacks
But the team will face further ignominy if they plummet to their seventh loss in nine games at the weekend.
Stuff has crunched the numbers and calculated that a victory to Michael Cheika’s team in Hamilton would lift them to No 5 in the world rankings, up from their current spot of No 7.
The All Blacks would fall to sixth, while the Wallabies would also be overtaken by Argentina.
Australia would drop to seventh, even if they beat the Springboks at Allianz Stadium on Saturday.
However, the Wallabies would be very close to the All Blacks on ranking points and if they were to capture the Bledisloe Cup later this year, they would also move above them in the world rankings.
If New Zealand’s poor form continues, they could also fall behind Scotland and Wales, with tests against both of those nations, as well as Japan and England on their end of season tour in November.
- Guy Smiley
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When I said Fire Sale...
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/129 ... ing-review
I didn't realise the matches were already lit.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/129 ... ing-review
I didn't realise the matches were already lit.
NZ Rugby’s bungling over the performance of the All Blacks coaching team has put a spotlight on the leadership of the organisation. But as National Correspondent Dana Johannsen reports, concerns have been mounting about the competency and make-up of the NZ Rugby board for some time.
What began as a debate over the competency of the All Blacks coaching staff has morphed into one over the leadership of NZ Rugby. This one may be messier to resolve.
Faced with the seemingly boundless public debate about Ian Foster’s tenability as All Blacks coach, NZ Rugby bosses faltered in a manner we have rarely seen by top administrators of the game, prompting questions over the leadership of the organisation.
But Stuff can reveal concerns have been mounting over the performance, decision-making and make-up of the board for some time. Now, the organisation’s board is set for an uncomfortable examination through a wide-ranging governance review.
After an ugly public fall-out between the national body and the Players’ Association last year over stalled negotiations in the Silver Lake deal, NZ Rugby bosses agreed to a governance and constitution review in order to get the Players’ Association back to the bargaining table.
In all the hype that accompanied the groundbreaking deal with the multi-billion-dollar American investment firm in June, the caveat introduced by the Players’ Association garnered little attention. But the bold power move by the players representative body could lead to the most significant governance shake-up of NZ Rugby in 20 years.
Publicly, the review has been positioned as a move to ensure that the national body’s governance structures and processes are “fit for purpose” for the new era of private equity investment.
However, one source close to the negotiations told Stuff the main driver behind the Players’ Association push for a review was a growing frustration at NZ Rugby’s pattern of “blowing up relationships”, including:
The breakdown between NZ Rugby and the Players’ Association over Silver Lake negotiations.
NZ Rugby’s relationship between its SANZAAR partners hitting an all-time low.
The national body’s treatment of the provincial unions – its constituent members – as the “noose around their neck”.
NZ Rugby’s handling of the bidding process for the licences for two new Pacific Island teams in the revamped 2022 Super Rugby competition.
A “dismissive and arrogant” attitude towards media – and by extension, the public.
In addition, NZ Rugby has faced open questions about its management of conflicts of interest on its board, with Bart Campbell’s business interests coming under particular scrutiny, while others have questioned whether there is the right mix of skills and experience around the boardroom table.
Under the terms of the Silver Lake deal, signed in early June, the review was to start within 60 days of the agreement being finalised. Stuff understands the terms of reference have been signed off and circulated among key stakeholders, while the independent review panel is in the process of being appointed.
Another key stipulation of the review is that it’s a public process, with the findings to be published in full. This will be welcomed by the wider rugby community given the lack of trust in the leadership of NZ Rugby following its bungled handling of questions of Foster’s future in the All Blacks’ top job.
“It’s not what happens, but the way you deal with it – and the way they dealt with it was just shocking,” one high-profile member of the rugby community told Stuff.
“If [chief executive Mark Robinson and Foster] had stood side by side throughout this entire process, they did not need all this confused and negative narrative.
“Where were the board and management through this? What the hell were they up to?”
The review is expected to put the actions and decision-making of the board under a level of scrutiny not seen since the 2002 Sir Thomas Eichelbaum review of the NZRFU (as the national body were christened back then) following the loss of the co-hosting rights with Australia of the 2003 Rugby World Cup.
NZ Rugby chairman Stewart Mitchell says he is confident that the performance of his board will stand up to the scrutiny.
“I think it is a good board, and it is working well at the moment,” he says.
“We always have to keep ahead of the game and be relevant to New Zealand society, so I am more than comfortable with having a review, we have changes afoot with the establishment of our commercial arm, so that has governance implications. There is statutory change afoot as well, so I think [the review] is timely.”
While NZ Rugby’s series of PR missteps over the last six weeks has drawn the most headlines, a greater failure came at the end of last year, when the board failed to properly interrogate the reasons behind the All Blacks’ lacklustre performances on the northern tour. Sources claim a lack of high performance knowledge on the board was exposed when it readily accepted the narrative that Covid-related challenges and the difficulties of bubble life were to blame for the poor performances.
Others have questioned whether the board’s attention was diverted by a more immediate coaching crisis. At the time, the organisation was also dealing with the fall-out from the Black Ferns capitulation on their trip to the Northern Hemisphere and allegations of bullying within the environment, leading to an independent review.
In any event, rather than making a considered call at the beginning of the year, giving them time to bed in any changes, NZ Rugby put itself in the position where it needed to make coaching decisions on the fly in the midst of the Rugby Championship, leading to claims the retention of Foster was driven in part in the interests of expediency.
Stuff understands the board was initially split down the middle on the decision of whether to retain Foster, with Mitchell getting the deciding vote. Once the call had been made, the board later agreed to throw its weight behind Foster.
Mitchell, though, is adamant there was no indecision. He says claims of a split board were “categorically not correct”.
“The board was unanimous in its decision to reappoint Ian Foster as head coach.”
In announcing the retention of Foster following a mid-season “debrief”, Robinson said his organisation had “drawn a line under” the issue. However, behind the scenes the fall-out rumbles on.
The treatment of Crusaders coach Scott Robertson – the man widely tipped to replace Foster – during the process has caused angst. Robertson is understood to have been told to assemble his coaching team following the All Blacks’ 26-10 loss to South Africa in the opening game of the Rugby Championship. Robertson’s roster was said to include Blues coach Leon MacDonald and Hurricanes mentor Jason Holland, forcing those clubs to begin working on contingency plans for its own coaching rosters.
Mitchell would not be drawn on questions over NZ Rugby’s discussions with Robertson or whether he felt the six-time Super Rugby winning coach was treated fairly during the process.
“I don’t really want to go there,” said Mitchell.
“Scott is a very important part of our rugby eco-system, he’s a very good coach, and I’m sure his time will come.”
But the apparent flip-flopping from NZ Rugby management has led to a loss of goodwill among both Foster and Robertson sympathisers. It also had a patch-up job on its hands with Super Rugby bosses left miffed by the needless coaching panic.
At the same time, New Zealand is starting tense negotiations with its SANZAAR partners over the shape of the Super Rugby competition beyond next season, in which several sources have claimed NZ Rugby is still feeling the effects of decisions made by former chairman Brent Impey.
Impey was accused of “burning SANZAAR to the ground” in 2020 by pushing ahead with a domestic competition during Covid at a time when the partners should have been working together.
However, one source points out that with Impey out of the fray, he has become a convenient scapegoat for the relationship breakdown, as NZ Rugby enter damage control mode.
“There were collective decisions made for which they all have to take responsibility,” they said.
All can agree that Impey was a dominant chair, who was hugely influential in appointing Robinson to the top job.
There was some discomfort that Impey remained on the board after his chairmanship ended, preventing Robinson from developing his own style as a chief executive. Now out of Impey’s shadow, Robinson appears indecisive, with NZ Rugby suddenly acutely reactive to public opinion.
The process to appoint a new board chair was also far from straightforward, with early signs that media entrepreneur and former East Coast representative Bailey Mackey was the frontrunner for the job, before an 11th hour backflip saw veteran administrator Mitchell voted in.
“It’s a pretty interesting shop window,” one source told Stuff.
“You have a chairman that is there by virtue of a last minute change of heart, and a CEO that doesn’t seem to be able to get a lot done, and a poor public persona.”
There have also been broader questions over whether the board has enough “quality people” and the necessary expertise to lead the organisation into a new era. Others have raised concerns that one NZ Rugby’s biggest assets on the board - Bart Campbell, a leading figure in the sportainment industry - comes with too many commercial ties.
The upcoming review will provide an answer to those questions, and, if necessary, the mechanism for change within NZ Rugby that many within the game view as overdue.
It's an easy fix, really - all the Board needs to do is fire a few office underlings at NZ Rugby HQ.Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:32 amThe upcoming review will provide an answer to those questions, and, if necessary, the mechanism for change within NZ Rugby that many within the game view as overdue.
Voila!
You are right. We just don’t deserve him.
I wouldn’t blame him for resigning, just walking out the door.
Go on Foster just walk out. Go to Wales/England. We definitely deserve it.
Tomorrow.
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Is he actually a carpenter by trade? Things tend to work out well for carpenters, whether the one nailed to a cross or most famously of course Karen herself!
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:33 amIs he actually a carpenter by trade? Things tend to work out well for carpenters, whether the one nailed to a cross or most famously of course Karen herself!
The Rugby Paper reporting today that Robertson is on a (short) list of potential replacements for Eddie Jones next year. Robertson is due in England to coach the Barbarians in November and rumour has it an iformal chat with the RFU is planned.
I know you can't read anything into it but Robertson was also seen in in deep discussion with Eddie Jones over dinner in Sydney during England's recent tour there.
Yes please!!!
I know you can't read anything into it but Robertson was also seen in in deep discussion with Eddie Jones over dinner in Sydney during England's recent tour there.
Yes please!!!
I wish he was a carpenter! He could at least build something.Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:33 amIs he actually a carpenter by trade? Things tend to work out well for carpenters, whether the one nailed to a cross or most famously of course Karen herself!
If England get Razor, I may have to shift my allegiance to my country of birth...SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:42 am The Rugby Paper reporting today that Robertson is on a (short) list of potential replacements for Eddie Jones next year. Robertson is due in England to coach the Barbarians in November and rumour has it an iformal chat with the RFU is planned.
I know you can't read anything into it but Robertson was also seen in in deep discussion with Eddie Jones over dinner in Sydney during England's recent tour there.
Yes please!!!
What??? Are you telling us you a Pom masquerading as Kiwi to accept the plaudits of being an AB supporter? Mate I am beyond disappointed, here was I thinking you were a real person!Grandpa wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:02 pmIf England get Razor, I may have to shift my allegiance to my country of birth...SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:42 am The Rugby Paper reporting today that Robertson is on a (short) list of potential replacements for Eddie Jones next year. Robertson is due in England to coach the Barbarians in November and rumour has it an iformal chat with the RFU is planned.
I know you can't read anything into it but Robertson was also seen in in deep discussion with Eddie Jones over dinner in Sydney during England's recent tour there.
Yes please!!!
Correct. As a kid my dad said to me... you can support England like me... or the All Blacks, the national rugby team of the country we now live in... I chose the All Blacks cause I liked the way they played... even as a kid... BG Williams, Bruce Robertson, Sid Going... versus Bill Beaumont... it was easy... till Foster came along...Dan54 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:12 pmWhat??? Are you telling us you a Pom masquerading as Kiwi to accept the plaudits of being an AB supporter? Mate I am beyond disappointed, here was I thinking you were a real person!Grandpa wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:02 pmIf England get Razor, I may have to shift my allegiance to my country of birth...SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:42 am The Rugby Paper reporting today that Robertson is on a (short) list of potential replacements for Eddie Jones next year. Robertson is due in England to coach the Barbarians in November and rumour has it an iformal chat with the RFU is planned.
I know you can't read anything into it but Robertson was also seen in in deep discussion with Eddie Jones over dinner in Sydney during England's recent tour there.
Yes please!!!
I was a baby when my parents emigrated to NZ... 6 months old... I only came back to the UK as an adult... I still have a strong Kiwi accent...
I've now lived well over half my life in the UK... even though I grew up in NZ, went to school and uni there... it now feels like a foreign country when I visit... a very familiar foreign country! But my previous life there seems like a thousand years ago, even though it was the 60s, 70s and 80s...
Do you have family still in NZ?
Yes all back in NZ. But close ties to here.
My mum lived here for a while, and then used to follow summers between hemispheres for many years. Previous to that my uncle over here for ages working as a mechanic in F1. Back in the Lotus / Jimmy Clarke days and then later for McLaren.
But they are all back in NZ. I did a longer than expected o’seas stint here. I jumped on a plane rather impulsively looking for electrical engineering consulting work (with a 4 year ancestral visa), a couple of years after my uni Eng degree in Canterbury.
My mum lived here for a while, and then used to follow summers between hemispheres for many years. Previous to that my uncle over here for ages working as a mechanic in F1. Back in the Lotus / Jimmy Clarke days and then later for McLaren.
But they are all back in NZ. I did a longer than expected o’seas stint here. I jumped on a plane rather impulsively looking for electrical engineering consulting work (with a 4 year ancestral visa), a couple of years after my uni Eng degree in Canterbury.
I came with two mates... the plan was to tour Europe for a year and then return home... in the end I stayed and my two mates went off to Canada and married Canadians...Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:57 pm Yes all back in NZ. But close ties to here.
My mum lived here for a while, and then used to follow summers between hemispheres for many years. Previous to that my uncle over here for ages working as a mechanic in F1. Back in the Lotus / Jimmy Clarke days and then later for McLaren.
But they are all back in NZ. I did a longer than expected o’seas stint here. I jumped on a plane rather impulsively looking for electrical engineering consulting work (with a 4 year ancestral visa), a couple of years after my uni Eng degree in Canterbury.
My parents stayed in NZ until I brought them both back 6 years ago as they could no longer look after themselves properly...
Canterbury Uni eh? I went to Otago...
Lol ok I will just have to keep that in mind mate.Grandpa wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:25 pmCorrect. As a kid my dad said to me... you can support England like me... or the All Blacks, the national rugby team of the country we now live in... I chose the All Blacks cause I liked the way they played... even as a kid... BG Williams, Bruce Robertson, Sid Going... versus Bill Beaumont... it was easy... till Foster came along...
I was a baby when my parents emigrated to NZ... 6 months old... I only came back to the UK as an adult... I still have a strong Kiwi accent...
Mind you if I get to England next year or so and you were to buy me a beer if we in same area or something, I could probably forget all past sins