Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Hal Jordan]

It's Thatcher on steroids, but without the North Sea oil bonanza or privatisation money to massage the blow, and without the added ability to bribe the public with knock down prices on council houses.

And Labour have stolen a march with their sovereign wealth fund style policy of a national stake in 21st century energy production, whilst the Tories are firmly wedded to fossil fuels and doing absolutely fuck all about insulation and energy reduction, which are stone cold wins.

[fishfoodie]

It's not too much of an exaggeration to say that the housing market is the UK economy, if that implodes the UK economy is fucked for a generation, and at the end of that it's still dysfunctional if there's not enough house building.

I'd love to see the curves showing how many people would lose their homes, with x% of a house price decrease, because they released equity, & their house would suddenly not cover their liability.

[Paddington Bear]

It's not too much of an exaggeration to say that the housing market is the UK economy, if that implodes the UK economy is fucked for a generation, and at the end of that it's still dysfunctional if there's not enough house building.

I'd love to see the curves showing how many people would lose their homes, with x% of a house price decrease, because they released equity, & their house would suddenly not cover their liability.

A house price crash creates winners as well as losers. A good chance it ends up benefiting a lot of working age renters at the expense of the non working

[fishfoodie]

I presume when the BoE describes their response as, "Significant", that means, at least 1%, & imminently, not pissing around till their next scheduled meeting.

[Torquemada 1420]

It's Thatcher on steroids, but without the North Sea oil bonanza or privatisation money to massage the blow, and without the added ability to bribe the public with knock down prices on council houses.

And Labour have stolen a march with their sovereign wealth fund style policy of a national stake in 21st century energy production, whilst the Tories are firmly wedded to fossil fuels and doing absolutely fuck all about insulation and energy reduction, which are stone cold wins.

It's not Thatcher at all. She was evil but not an idiot and certainly didn't trash the economy. And the real trick (one pony variety) she used was selling of assets the public owned (utilities, rail, council houses etc)........ to the public...... and in so doing, clearing the national debt.

[Torquemada 1420]

I presume when the BoE describes their response as, "Significant", that means, at least 1%, & imminently, not pissing around till their next scheduled meeting.

It's fascinating, in a car crash voyeuristic way. You have 2 loons trotting out fiscal policies with the BofE immediately reacting with monetary policies aimed to do exactly the reverse.

[fishfoodie]

I presume when the BoE describes their response as, "Significant", that means, at least 1%, & imminently, not pissing around till their next scheduled meeting.

It's fascinating, in a car crash voyeuristic way. You have 2 loons trotting out fiscal policies with the BofE immediately reacting with monetary policies aimed to do exactly the reverse.

well right now the two cars have crashed into each other, & the two drivers are outside shaking their fists at each other ..... meanwhile ..... one of the drivers hasn't realised they're stranded on railway crossing, & there's a train fulll of petrol, & sewage barrelling down the tracks.

I'm expecting Dizzys pig headness, to mean she won't move, & instead her reaction (based on previous behaviour), will be to break the BoEs independance, & put in place a stooge, & that will make 6% interest rates look good.

[_Os_]

It's not too much of an exaggeration to say that the housing market is the UK economy, if that implodes the UK economy is fucked for a generation, and at the end of that it's still dysfunctional if there's not enough house building.

I'd love to see the curves showing how many people would lose their homes, with x% of a house price decrease, because they released equity, & their house would suddenly not cover their liability.

I know little about equity release, don't even know how many homes with their mortgage paid off have loans secured against them like that. I do know properly regulated products carry negative equity guarantees, not sure what that entails but forced sales seems unlikely? Something interesting I hadn't considered.

In terms of the UK economy the big issue is basically people in their 30s/40s with a mortgage. But I've been over that before. That's the time in your life when you're spending the most and raising a family etc. If they go bankrupt it's permanent damage. It's possible to completely restart your life in your 30s from near scratch, but hardly ideal.

[Camroc2]

It's not too much of an exaggeration to say that the housing market is the UK economy, if that implodes the UK economy is fucked for a generation, and at the end of that it's still dysfunctional if there's not enough house building.

I'd love to see the curves showing how many people would lose their homes, with x% of a house price decrease, because they released equity, & their house would suddenly not cover their liability.

A house price crash creates winners as well as losers. A good chance it ends up benefiting a lot of working age renters at the expense of the non working

It's not, believe you me.

[fishfoodie]

It's not too much of an exaggeration to say that the housing market is the UK economy, if that implodes the UK economy is fucked for a generation, and at the end of that it's still dysfunctional if there's not enough house building.

I'd love to see the curves showing how many people would lose their homes, with x% of a house price decrease, because they released equity, & their house would suddenly not cover their liability.

I know little about equity release, don't even know how many homes with their mortgage paid off have loans secured against them like that. I do know properly regulated products carry negative equity guarantees, not sure what that entails but forced sales seems unlikely? Something interesting I hadn't considered.

In terms of the UK economy the big issue is basically people in their 30s/40s with a mortgage. But I've been over that before. That's the time in your life when you're spending the most and raising a family etc. If they go bankrupt it's permanent damage. It's possible to completely restart your life in your 30s from near scratch, but hardly ideal.

Sounds like generally, the Lender is the one left holding the bag.

https://www.moneyrelease.co.uk/Types-Of-Equity-Release/

No negative equity guarantee.

All lifetime mortgages which meet the Equity Release Council council standards include a no negative equity guarantee. Put simply; it means that neither you nor your estate will ever owe more than the property is worth when sold.

When you take out an equity release plan, you will still own your property, and you will have the right to live in it until you pass away or go into long term care. When your property is sold, the equity release is repaid, and any remaining proceeds belong to your beneficiaries.

Should your property have a significant decrease in value, it may be that there are not enough funds from the sale to repay the equity release. If this situation should arise the maximum amount the lender would be able to request is the value the property sold for, less the associated costs of selling.

The 'no negative equity guarantee' means that the lender will waive the remaining loan balance, and no debt will be passed on to your beneficiaries.

[_Os_]

I'm expecting Dizzys pig headness, to mean she won't move, & instead her reaction (based on previous behaviour), will be to break the BoEs independance, & put in place a stooge, & that will make 6% interest rates look good.

I don't think they can pull that off, all confidence would be lost in the UK and the economy would be a smoking crater. Even in actual emerging markets the madmen get beaten back storming those ramparts.

But that is their intention, because populist/nationalist shit shows like this always end up in this showdown. I called it on this thread a year ago, that the BoE would become a battleground. The quote JM2K6 shared shows this is the confrontation we're being further primed for, the financial markets etc are the new enemy (the DM frontpage blaming "city slickers" was about that too). The pro-free market Brexiters, aren't far off declaring the financial markets part of the remainer leftist blob blocking the will of the people.

[_Os_]

Moron number three has entered the chat, claiming the other two morons should "tune out" criticism, which is now coming from the IMF and rating agencies and the markets, all of which are Brownites (aka evil lefties).

Meanwhile back in reality it's a mystery why KamiKwazi is still in the job. Guess who wants his job, moron number three of course, none other than Lord Moron himself. Every time the Tories get rid of someone awful, someone worse replaces them. Lord Moron as Chancellor playing "hardball" (aka being a moron) with ratings agencies/the IMF/the markets, I'm sure it can't go wrong, just like his brilliant Brexit deal didn't go wrong.

[fishfoodie]

Moron number three has entered the chat, claiming the other two morons should "tune out" criticism, which is now coming from the IMF and rating agencies and the markets, all of which are Brownites (aka evil lefties).

Meanwhile back in reality it's a mystery why KamiKwazi is still in the job. Guess who wants his job, moron number three of course, none other than Lord Moron himself. Every time the Tories get rid of someone awful, someone worse replaces them. Lord Moron as Chancellor playing "hardball" (aka being a moron) with ratings agencies/the IMF/the markets, I'm sure it can't go wrong, just like his brilliant Brexit deal didn't go wrong.

Isn't it funny that Irish FInance Minister was, Today, able to deliver a Budget that doesn't require borrowing, but delivers significant relief, across the economy; & yet after the GFC, we had to go cap in hand tp the IMF to bail us out ????

Are there any of the PIIGS whose borrowing costs isn't better today, than the Tory UKs ?

It's almost like the blovating fuckwit, is talking out his hole ?

[Tichtheid]

Thought that was a good speech from Starmer. Whilst the next GE could be seen as a tap in now he's carefully blocking attack lines from the Conservatives (tough on crime, pro business and no deals with nationalists)

Starmer has been really quite effective at not giving the press anything they can attack him with, to the frustration of Tories and Labourites alike, in their desperation they are still attacking Corbyn. In the event of a a hung parliament or a minority government after the next election, I can't see him ignoring the SNP if it means he can't pass any bills.

The price will be a referendum, if one doesn't happen before then, and he'll get 45ish votes in return.

Of course that could be moot if the current polling is reflected at the ballot box.

[I like neeps]

It's not too much of an exaggeration to say that the housing market is the UK economy, if that implodes the UK economy is fucked for a generation, and at the end of that it's still dysfunctional if there's not enough house building.

I'd love to see the curves showing how many people would lose their homes, with x% of a house price decrease, because they released equity, & their house would suddenly not cover their liability.

A house price crash creates winners as well as losers. A good chance it ends up benefiting a lot of working age renters at the expense of the non working

How would renters win? There's an article in the telegraph that 50% of landlords will struggle to maintain a profit with the interest rates rise and will be forced to increase rent. I get them the rent won't be paid and people will move. But if you can't afford a mortgage and need to rent where is this rental supply coming from?

Unless there's a huge amount of repossessions driving down buying prices which lowers rent too.

Hard to predict the consequences (apart from a labour government) of the Tories blowing up the housing market.

[Paddington Bear]

I'd love to see the curves showing how many people would lose their homes, with x% of a house price decrease, because they released equity, & their house would suddenly not cover their liability.

I know little about equity release, don't even know how many homes with their mortgage paid off have loans secured against them like that. I do know properly regulated products carry negative equity guarantees, not sure what that entails but forced sales seems unlikely? Something interesting I hadn't considered.

In terms of the UK economy the big issue is basically people in their 30s/40s with a mortgage. But I've been over that before. That's the time in your life when you're spending the most and raising a family etc. If they go bankrupt it's permanent damage. It's possible to completely restart your life in your 30s from near scratch, but hardly ideal.

Sounds like generally, the Lender is the one left holding the bag.

https://www.moneyrelease.co.uk/Types-Of-Equity-Release/

No negative equity guarantee.

All lifetime mortgages which meet the Equity Release Council council standards include a no negative equity guarantee. Put simply; it means that neither you nor your estate will ever owe more than the property is worth when sold.

When you take out an equity release plan, you will still own your property, and you will have the right to live in it until you pass away or go into long term care. When your property is sold, the equity release is repaid, and any remaining proceeds belong to your beneficiaries.

Should your property have a significant decrease in value, it may be that there are not enough funds from the sale to repay the equity release. If this situation should arise the maximum amount the lender would be able to request is the value the property sold for, less the associated costs of selling.

The 'no negative equity guarantee' means that the lender will waive the remaining loan balance, and no debt will be passed on to your beneficiaries.

Those devious shits will be lawyering up as we speak to wriggle out of this

[_Os_]

More Brexit morons are declaring Bretton Woods Institutions are basically Commies.

They're using their Brexit playbook again, where any critics (really just concerned onlookers) are shouted down. But this isn't a drawn out negotiation, where many of the costs were hidden or delayed and it's complicated to follow, which enables someone to get away with bullshit if they're shameless. This is an immediate market reaction to the UK government's fiscal policy, it cannot be shouted down or explained away, not even tighter monetary policy can really fix this. There has to be a rapid climb down.

[yermum]

Now I really have heard it all. IMF is left wing.

This is cultural revolution levels of self delusion

[I like neeps]

More Brexit morons are declaring Bretton Woods Institutions are basically Commies.

They're using their Brexit playbook again, where any critics (really just concerned onlookers) are shouted down. But this isn't a drawn out negotiation, where many of the costs were hidden or delayed and it's complicated to follow, which enables someone to get away with bullshit if they're shameless. This is an immediate market reaction to the UK government's fiscal policy, it cannot be shouted down or explained away, not even tighter monetary policy can really fix this. There has to be a rapid climb down.

If you think they're bad have a look here:

[sturginho]

If you think they're bad have a look here:

[robmatic]

More Brexit morons are declaring Bretton Woods Institutions are basically Commies.

They're using their Brexit playbook again, where any critics (really just concerned onlookers) are shouted down. But this isn't a drawn out negotiation, where many of the costs were hidden or delayed and it's complicated to follow, which enables someone to get away with bullshit if they're shameless. This is an immediate market reaction to the UK government's fiscal policy, it cannot be shouted down or explained away, not even tighter monetary policy can really fix this. There has to be a rapid climb down.

If you think they're bad have a look here:

Hannan's complete inability to think critically is amazing, he was the same when he was cheerleading for Brexit. Even if you accept his absurd argument on its face, why do the markets suddenly think Starmer is a shoo-in? Surely that must be because the budget was a political disaster?

[_Os_]

How is this guy still in the job?

Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng is due to meet bankers today in an effort to calm nerves after his mini-budget spooked the markets and sent the pound crashing.

Sky News understands he will ask financiers not to bet against the pound, which has fallen to record lows against the dollar in recent days.

He is also expected to underline his commitment to fiscal discipline and will talk about a "Big Bang 2.0 event" from his growth plan.

https://news.sky.com/story/kwasi-kwarte ... s-12706734

[petej]

Those are incredible. From the attacks on the ft being communist rag from brexiteers during brexit, to the imf being left wing. They have joined the flat earthers and the moon landings are fake lot. The attacks on starmer are a sign of desperation.

[dpedin]

How is this guy still in the job?

Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng is due to meet bankers today in an effort to calm nerves after his mini-budget spooked the markets and sent the pound crashing.

Sky News understands he will ask financiers not to bet against the pound, which has fallen to record lows against the dollar in recent days.

He is also expected to underline his commitment to fiscal discipline and will talk about a "Big Bang 2.0 event" from his growth plan.

https://news.sky.com/story/kwasi-kwarte ... s-12706734

For fecks sake - we are now into real cult like scenario! Big Bang 2.0 event, what the feck is that? Is it the end of the world? Martians arriving on Earth? The lizards who control us taking off their disguises? Imagine asking financiers not to take profits or do their jobs because its hurting his plans! This man is delusional. Get him out now before he does any more damage.

[fishfoodie]

How is this guy still in the job?

Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng is due to meet bankers today in an effort to calm nerves after his mini-budget spooked the markets and sent the pound crashing.

Sky News understands he will ask financiers not to bet against the pound, which has fallen to record lows against the dollar in recent days.

He is also expected to underline his commitment to fiscal discipline and will talk about a "Big Bang 2.0 event" from his growth plan.

https://news.sky.com/story/kwasi-kwarte ... s-12706734

So he's going to ask them to break the law, & guarantee they'll get their P45 ?

[_Os_]

If you think they're bad have a look here:

The clue is in how he claims the "mini budget" was "trifling" and nothing at all. But that's not how it was presented and praised, it was said to be a historic blockbuster game changing budget.

Same as Lord Moron denouncing the IMF as eccentric and conventional.

They're not serious people.

[_Os_]

The Spectator now piling in behind Lord Moron.

Have any of these people stopped and wondered what Lord Moron's economics qualifications actually are, what his track record is, and if he really does know better than those he criticises?

They're trying to cloud the issue with bullshit, in the desperate hope those they've conned stay conned. The issue here is the markets do not believe there's any growth plan (because there isn't), so the markets are just left with a permanently enlarged deficit and increased UK borrowing.

[Lobby]

If you think they're bad have a look here:

The clue is in how he claims the "mini budget" was "trifling" and nothing at all. But that's not how it was presented and praised, it was said to be a historic blockbuster game changing budget.

Same as Lord Moron denouncing the IMF as eccentric and conventional.

They're not serious people.

Presumably these morons also think that building societies and banks are now communists as well

"The withdrawal of mortgage products hit unprecedented levels overnight, according to analysts.

Moneyfacts, a financial information service, said 935 mortgage products were taken off the shelf compared with a day earlier.

It said that was the biggest overnight drop it has ever recorded. It was double the previous biggest drop, which occurred during Covid."

In any other country KamiKwasi's position would be untenable following such an unprecedentedly negative reaction to his disastrous mini budget, but it appears that he and Dizzy Lizzy are determined to blunder on and make the situation even worse

[I like neeps]

Haha

[tabascoboy]

Haha

This is about the following I assume. NGL I have very little understanding of the intricacies of managing the economy

Bank of England announces gilt market operation

News release
As the Governor said in his statement on Monday, the Bank is monitoring developments in financial markets very closely in light of the significant repricing of UK and global financial assets.

This repricing has become more significant in the past day – and it is particularly affecting long-dated UK government debt. Were dysfunction in this market to continue or worsen, there would be a material risk to UK financial stability. This would lead to an unwarranted tightening of financing conditions and a reduction of the flow of credit to the real economy.

In line with its financial stability objective, the Bank of England stands ready to restore market functioning and reduce any risks from contagion to credit conditions for UK households and businesses.

To achieve this, the Bank will carry out temporary purchases of long-dated UK government bonds from 28 September. The purpose of these purchases will be to restore orderly market conditions. The purchases will be carried out on whatever scale is necessary to effect this outcome. The operation will be fully indemnified by HM Treasury.

On 28 September, the Bank of England’s Financial Policy Committee noted the risks to UK financial stability from dysfunction in the gilt market. It recommended that action be taken, and welcomed the Bank’s plans for temporary and targeted purchases in the gilt market on financial stability grounds at an urgent pace.

These purchases will be strictly time limited. They are intended to tackle a specific problem in the long-dated government bond market. Auctions will take place from today until 14 October. The purchases will be unwound in a smooth and orderly fashion once risks to market functioning are judged to have subsided.

The Monetary Policy Committee has been informed of these temporary and targeted financial stability operations. This is in line with the Concordat governing the MPC’s engagement with the Bank’s Executive regarding balance sheet operations. As set out in the Governor’s statement on Monday, the MPC will make a full assessment of recent macroeconomic developments at its next scheduled meeting and act accordingly. The MPC will not hesitate to change interest rates by as much as needed to return inflation to the 2% target sustainably in the medium term, in line with its remit.

The MPC’s annual target of an £80bn stock reduction is unaffected and unchanged. In light of current market conditions, the Bank’s Executive has postponed the beginning of gilt sale operations that were due to commence next week. The first gilt sale operations will take place on 31 October and proceed thereafter.

The Bank will shortly publish a market notice outlining operational details.

[fishfoodie]

If they last that long, next weeks Tory Conference promises to be very interesting !

I'm sure the usual set pieces in the main hall, will be full of adoring cretins, applauding every mention of, "Pork Markets"; but the smoke filled back rooms will be a very different story.

[I like neeps]

Oooft. Kwasi might actually not last as long as Zahawi!

[Ovals]

What a bunch of fucking amateurs.

[fishfoodie]

So the BoE is going to prove there isn't any cyanide in the dog food, by eating loads of it ?

But at the same time, there still going to go ahead with the plan to sell £80B worth of this same debt, in the hope nobody does the sums ??

[petej]

Kwasi Kwarteng:

Spoiler

Show

Two min silence:

Yet another extremely well qualified Old Etonian, promoted because he's known by the PM to be seriously bright.

FTFY.

It's amazing how bias can cause people to invent things. Have a quick read of this. He hasn't won all those prizes and scholarships, nor gained Firsts and a doctorate, for nothing:

Kwarteng was born in the London Borough of Waltham Forest, the only child[3] of Alfred K. Kwarteng and Charlotte Boaitey-Kwarteng, who had emigrated from Ghana as students in the 1960s.[4][5] His mother is a barrister[6] and his father an economist in the Commonwealth Secretariat.[5][7]

After starting school at a state primary school, Kwarteng attended Colet Court, an independent preparatory school in London, where he won the Harrow History Prize in 1988.[8] Kwarteng then went to Eton College, where he was a King's Scholar and was awarded the prestigious Newcastle Scholarship prize. He read classics and history at Trinity College, Cambridge, achieving a first in both subjects and twice winning the Browne Medal. He was a member of the team which won University Challenge in 1995 (in the first series after the programme was revived by the BBC in 1994).[5][10] Whilst at Cambridge, he was a member of the University Pitt Club, and has since returned to visit.[11] He attended Harvard University on a Kennedy Scholarship, and then earned a PhD in economic history from the University of Cambridge in 2000.[12]

So qualified how could he be so useless

[I like neeps]

Yet another extremely well qualified Old Etonian, promoted because he's known by the PM to be seriously bright.

FTFY.

It's amazing how bias can cause people to invent things. Have a quick read of this. He hasn't won all those prizes and scholarships, nor gained Firsts and a doctorate, for nothing:

Kwarteng was born in the London Borough of Waltham Forest, the only child[3] of Alfred K. Kwarteng and Charlotte Boaitey-Kwarteng, who had emigrated from Ghana as students in the 1960s.[4][5] His mother is a barrister[6] and his father an economist in the Commonwealth Secretariat.[5][7]

After starting school at a state primary school, Kwarteng attended Colet Court, an independent preparatory school in London, where he won the Harrow History Prize in 1988.[8] Kwarteng then went to Eton College, where he was a King's Scholar and was awarded the prestigious Newcastle Scholarship prize. He read classics and history at Trinity College, Cambridge, achieving a first in both subjects and twice winning the Browne Medal. He was a member of the team which won University Challenge in 1995 (in the first series after the programme was revived by the BBC in 1994).[5][10] Whilst at Cambridge, he was a member of the University Pitt Club, and has since returned to visit.[11] He attended Harvard University on a Kennedy Scholarship, and then earned a PhD in economic history from the University of Cambridge in 2000.[12]

So qualified how could he be so useless

I think you have to question how "seriously bright" anyone who crashes an economy in 3 days really actually is.

Crying b b b b but he won Eton's prestigious Newcastle prize as your house is repossessed.

[Lobby]

The pound is in free fall again despite the BOE intervention.

[dpedin]

FTFY.

It's amazing how bias can cause people to invent things. Have a quick read of this. He hasn't won all those prizes and scholarships, nor gained Firsts and a doctorate, for nothing:

Kwarteng was born in the London Borough of Waltham Forest, the only child[3] of Alfred K. Kwarteng and Charlotte Boaitey-Kwarteng, who had emigrated from Ghana as students in the 1960s.[4][5] His mother is a barrister[6] and his father an economist in the Commonwealth Secretariat.[5][7]

After starting school at a state primary school, Kwarteng attended Colet Court, an independent preparatory school in London, where he won the Harrow History Prize in 1988.[8] Kwarteng then went to Eton College, where he was a King's Scholar and was awarded the prestigious Newcastle Scholarship prize. He read classics and history at Trinity College, Cambridge, achieving a first in both subjects and twice winning the Browne Medal. He was a member of the team which won University Challenge in 1995 (in the first series after the programme was revived by the BBC in 1994).[5][10] Whilst at Cambridge, he was a member of the University Pitt Club, and has since returned to visit.[11] He attended Harvard University on a Kennedy Scholarship, and then earned a PhD in economic history from the University of Cambridge in 2000.[12]

So qualified how could he be so useless

I think you have to question how "seriously bright" anyone who crashes an economy in 3 days really actually is.

I have come across many 'intellectual idiots' in my work career, experts in a chosen narrow field, could pass University exams but couldn't tie their own shoe laces without their Mum's help and needed Dad to change a plug. Lets not get fooled by the CV and look at their job performance.

[_Os_]

So qualified how could he be so useless

Classics and history, then post grad in economic history, Is seriously fucking underpowered for a G20 finance minister, especially one who immediately sacked his top civil servant advisor, then tried something extremely ambitious.

It's hard to be harsh on people who are impressed by all the big name universities and impressive sounding courses though, people like KamiKhazi do all that stuff for the social capital. Anyone who has actually been through a unit of economic history, knows this guy is way out of his fucking depth.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

So qualified how could he be so useless

I think you have to question how "seriously bright" anyone who crashes an economy in 3 days really actually is.

I have come across many 'intellectual idiots' in my work career, experts in a chosen narrow field, could pass University exams but couldn't tie their own shoe laces without their Mum's help and needed Dad to change a plug. Lets not get fooled by the CV and look at their job performance.

A friend used to work at British Telecom's Martlesham labs. He once said 'we have people here so bright that they have to be helped to the door' :)