Stop voting for fucking Tories

[fishfoodie]

LMAO

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/liz-t ... 36479.html

I have to agree. She can't even get the support of her own Cabinet, & her first considered actions have made the already the multiple crises in the Economy worse; & she still hasn't done anything to stop a Trade war with the EU, or put together a sensible Immigration policy, which might actually grow the Economy.

She's completely beholden to the ERG loons, & hasn't made any efforts to win over the majority of her MPs, instead she's threatening them with deselection if they don't blindly follow her suicidal policies, policies that weren't in the manifesto, & the MPs know will lose them their seats.

[Torquemada 1420]

Who are the new breed of Tories going to fight against in this "Anti-Growth Coalition"?

Thing is, Reggie's correct (I won't use "right"): that's exactly who is supporting their policies and, worse, there are a lot of them.

[dpedin]

Looks like I am a member of the 'rebel anti growth alliance' then fighting the 'Empire? We will win.

[_Os_]

Are people who are pro-Brexit/pro-Nimby/anti-immigration, on team "anti-growth alliance"?

Just when you think they can't become more ridiculous.

[Hal Jordan]

To over extend her metaphor, pies don't grow, they have to be made. You can't just stand in the kitchen, turn the oven on, stand back and shout that you've put the conditions in place for the pie to be made. You have to put the effort into making it.

Mould grows on pies if you leave them long enough.

[_Os_]

Not sure why Labour are playing the we'll be tougher on illegal immigration than Tories line. They'll never be more hateful (although they might try). And what do they think will happen? Illegal immigration to the UK is small part of people escaping conflict and climate breakdown across ME and Africa coming into Europe. Neither of the parties will "fix it". The press who have turned up Patel, will turn on Braverman will absolutely savage whoever Labour's Home Sec is too.

I don't think pointing out Tory failure by their own criteria and 'process claims quicker and send back people who don't have a genuine claim to be here' = an avowed intent to be tougher on illegal migrants than the Tories.

As attack lines that don't actually propose your own policy go, it wasn't a bad one.

On another tack, a non-insignificant portion of Labour's traditional support base do have what could generously be termed as concerns about immigration. That can't be ignored if power is sought, it's the sort of emotive issue which has turned votes.

Neeps is correct.

As soon as Labour are in power much of the print media (which is strongly Tory) will start attacking Labour on immigration. They've only stopped moaning as much because it's reached all time highs under the Tories, and the change in composition (more non-EU) is entirely about Brexit, the same Tories and Brexit they support. As soon as Labour are in power, it's going to be like a greatest hits of blaming Labour for immigration and a tabloid frontpage obsession. The fact that mass migration into the UK started before Labour won in 1997 and increased after they lost in 2010, will not matter. It's a discussion that happens in a Tory alternate reality, they don't care about immigration it's just a means of getting every bigot/racist to support them. Labour can never win on this, because the discussion is about Labour losing.

The big difference now is Labour are ahead despite the tabloids and right wing media. If Labour win it'll be the first time in at least 40 years the tabloids and most of the print media haven't supported the winner, they're not switching to Labour now after all the lies they've told about Brexit then the support for Johnson and then Truss, they're too invested. It's not just the owners and editors either, individual journalists have dirtied themselves too much. Many of them haven't forgotten Starmer from the phone hacking scandal, and fear him much more than Corbyn. If Labour wins it'll expose that much of the media and their declining readership doesn't matter as much as it did, and should be ignored just like Tories ignore The Guardian. If Labour still decide to play the tabloid game then they'll find they cannot please them, and end up in some situation as crazy as being unable to defend EU membership. Labour wasn't helped by Brown apologising for his "bigoted woman" remark, he should've said that eastern Europeans the bigoted woman wasn't happy about were working and paying taxes, not stealing her benefits as she seemed to think.

[Line6 HXFX]

The tories are now resorting to screaming the word "aspiration" at poor people.

Its the new "get a job", now they all have jobs.

Later in a few years, after they are all "aspiring" .(even though there cannot possibly be anything more as you cannot measure aspiration..as it is intangible)it will probably be "a feeling about them".

"Yeah the poor they don't make me feel good, thats why they are poor..they need to be less poor, then they won't be".

Wonder how many people they will kill this time, by ignoring them completely, and by screaming the word "aspiration" at them.
So if you are not succeeding you don't have enough intangible " aspiration".
The system is perfect see. It is all about you and your aspiration..

It is the cheap grift that reminds me of the illegal pyramid scheme. The criminals running them would use this type of logic on the poor schmucks and ubuilt in losers they roped in.

Funny how the Tories weoponise everything they can find,and how willing their brain washed members are to repeat it.

[I like neeps]

Not sure why Labour are playing the we'll be tougher on illegal immigration than Tories line. They'll never be more hateful (although they might try). And what do they think will happen? Illegal immigration to the UK is small part of people escaping conflict and climate breakdown across ME and Africa coming into Europe. Neither of the parties will "fix it". The press who have turned up Patel, will turn on Braverman will absolutely savage whoever Labour's Home Sec is too.

I don't think pointing out Tory failure by their own criteria and 'process claims quicker and send back people who don't have a genuine claim to be here' = an avowed intent to be tougher on illegal migrants than the Tories.

As attack lines that don't actually propose your own policy go, it wasn't a bad one.

On another tack, a non-insignificant portion of Labour's traditional support base do have what could generously be termed as concerns about immigration. That can't be ignored if power is sought, it's the sort of emotive issue which has turned votes.

Maybe so but this suggests people care about "processing times". They unfortunately do not. The opinion drivers on this - the red tops - are interested in two things (a) flights to Rwanda which even if they go ahead are a plaster on a severed artery as it neither solves the problem nor removes numbers of people and (b) stopping small boats arriving at Kent.

Processing won't speed up because the Tories won't pay for the people required or give France the financial support they won't. Labour could cut a deal there which will help a bit and try to hire the numbers required but that'll take a while. And the numbers won't slow down as this is a European issue not just Britain.

The press tore down Patel as being too soft (rather than incompetent). Patel! Who looks like she'd kick a puppy and enjoy it. Braverman is next. And it's not even their fault because it will never stop. They'll absolutely destroy Labour.

[Tichtheid]

Monbiot, the short version is that Labour have to be Labour, if they don't we are truly fucked

[sturginho]

We really are living in an alternate reality, today's Times front page is Nadine Dorries accusing Truss of "lurching to the right"

[Torquemada 1420]

Monbiot, the short version is that Labour have to be Labour, if they don't we are truly fucked

Depressingly true. And he is nail on head in regards Labour. Far too long as timid, ineffective opposition.

[fishfoodie]

Looks like the Markets have had enough.

Sterling is going down.
Interest rates going up.
Debt rating downgraded.
BoE making it clear that if they hadn't intervened Pension Funds would have been kapput.

Dizzy's backbenchers are only a few steps away from full revolt over the catastrophically bad way she's handled her first few weeks in office, & she can't even control her Cabinet.

The only question is when the collapse will happen, because Brady's letterbox must be nearly full; & even if they don't want to/can have another Leadership contest, they can't continue as Government, if they can't guarantee they'll pass their own Bills ?

[dpedin]

Looks like the Markets have had enough.

Sterling is going down.
Interest rates going up.
Debt rating downgraded.
BoE making it clear that if they hadn't intervened Pension Funds would have been kapput.

Dizzy's backbenchers are only a few steps away from full revolt over the catastrophically bad way she's handled her first few weeks in office, & she can't even control her Cabinet.

The only question is when the collapse will happen, because Brady's letterbox must be nearly full; & even if they don't want to/can have another Leadership contest, they can't continue as Government, if they can't guarantee they'll pass their own Bills ?

BoE have basically come out and called the Chancellor and PM liars about the 'its a global issue' with their info to the HoC Treasury Select Committee! Pretty damning.

[Insane_Homer]

£ took a bit of a nose dive again today.

Screenshot_20221006-183048.png (232.47 KiB) Viewed 2340 times

[Torquemada 1420]

Meantime, business as usual
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-63163824

[I like neeps]

It's hard to believe that Truss is more ideologically libertarianism than Rees-Mogg. Libertarian beliefs are a total nonsense to me but it's better to risk power blackouts then ask people to use less power is maybe the strangest. There's really no benefit. Tory voters aren't going to be annoyed! People went OTT for lockdown if anything.

[Biffer]

It's hard to believe that Truss is more ideologically libertarianism than Rees-Mogg. Libertarian beliefs are a total nonsense to me but it's better to risk power blackouts then ask people to use less power is maybe the strangest. There's really no benefit. Tory voters aren't going to be annoyed! People went OTT for lockdown if anything.

Particularly as most of the advice they were looking to give was the kind of thing that for Tory party members would be viewed as 'common sense for stupid poor people'.

[fishfoodie]

No one has posted Phillip Oppenheim's letter in the FT yet; a devastating attack on the last 12 years of Tory rule .... by a Tory

Letter: Truss has little grasp of UK’s structural problems
From Phillip Oppenheim, Conservative Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (1996-97), Todenham, Gloucestershire, UK

If financial services produced wealth for the whole economy, the UK would be a stunning success, not a country which has sunk from sixth in per capita gross domestic product in 1960 to just 20th now (excluding tax havens and oil rich nations, but including Norway).

This puts the UK well below the western European average.

While the dollar/sterling exchange rate grabs the headlines, the pound now lies 15 per cent below its 20-year average against the euro, the currency derided by many Conservative politicians. We are even hurtling towards parity with the Swiss franc — in 2000 the rate was 2.5 to the pound.

Over-financialisation of our economy and misallocation of resources is one cause of low UK investment and poor productivity.

Rather than reducing regulation and tax, we should be ending the carried interest tax break for private equity; better regulating pensions and fund managers who top-slice their percentage from our pensions, regardless of performance; preventing, rather than encouraging pension funds from investing in risky and opaque PE; and stopping PE from treating utilities like milch cows and offshoring profits to tax havens.

Nothing in last week’s mini-Budget (Report, September 24) indicates that our new leaders have the slightest grasp of the scale of our long-term, structural problems — or the solutions, above a half-digested, two-dimensional version of Thatcherism.

Rather than blustering about Britain being the “fifth richest economy”, we need honest leaders who accept that we are no longer a world power, stop pretending there is a special place for us in the anglosphere or Commonwealth and concentrate instead on internal development.

We need to rein back the worst abuses of financial services; reform education; encourage savings over consumption; reduce incentives to invest in property rather than productive assets; smarter, not higher defence spending — no more aircraft carriers; and, of course, rejoin the EU single market.

For that, I guess, we will have to wait for the departure of what will quite probably be the last ever Tory prime minister and the reform of our “unique” electoral system which now no longer delivers stability, only division and decline.

Phillip Oppenheim
Conservative Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (1996-97)
Todenham, Gloucestershire, UK

https://www.ft.com/content/9d358603-363 ... 55fe07d930

[_Os_]

And 35% of the country will still vote for and support them because blue rosette.

That 30%-35% is their core vote and has a staggeringly high tolerance level for poor governance. As discussed with neeps pages back, as long as they hold that they still have a chance in any election.

The Kamikwazi budget revealed a bit more about how firm it is. All the polling since has the Tories in the 20%-29% range. It seems their core support has 20% in the vote for the pig with a blue rosette category, and a top up of 15% who largely vote in their own immediate economic self interest. Polls show that top up 15% looks entirely mercenary and is breaking for Labour likely because they can beat the Tories (the Lib Dems gained nothing), only a small amount went from the Tories to Reform UK.

There's some other recent polling developments. Leave voters aren't consolidated behind the Tories, Labour and the Tories have about the same amount of Leave voters (Yougov had them at 39% each, and Reform UK taking 8%), but the Remain vote is more consolidated (Labout 63%/Lib Dems 12%). Supporting Brexit doesn't look like a big vote winner, but those parties that were more favourable to Remain are still trusted by Remainers more (Greens/SNP/Tories share the rest of the remain vote roughly equally, but the SNP and Greens are parties with a much smaller footprint than the Tories). The Tories are also nowhere with those under the age of 50, they're below 15% in those age groups. Labour are also polling ahead of the Tories in areas they normally don't, immigration and the economy.

The Tories could still regain their core vote, which will mean replacing the Truss government. If they maintain this course, the polling is now showing they'll be on 20%-ish with all that weighted towards those over 50 years old in England.

That YouGov poll doesn't look like a one off.

This poll by PeoplePolling for GB News shows the same result. Those that voted Leave in 2016 are much more likely not to vote at all, and of those that will they split equally for the Tories and Labour, with a small amount going for Reform UK. The Remain vote from 2016 is concentrated into Labour with the Libdems/Greens also getting some support, but no party that supported Leave gets much support (remain support for the Tories is small relative to the size of the Tory footprint). It also shows the Tories are losing voters directly to Labour, with Reform UK being the second biggest gain from the Tories. The Tories are struggling to get into double digits with age groups below 50 years old, this poll has them at 5%-9% among those under 50 years old, Tories/Greens/Libdems are similar sized parties in those age groups.

The Tories are now heavily tilted towards those aged 50+ (and particularly those aged 65+) in England (and particularly the midlands and south but not London) that voted Leave in 2016.

If this holds they're going to get wiped out. Their polling is much worse than the headline figures.

[Jockaline]

No one has posted Phillip Oppenheim's letter in the FT yet; a devastating attack on the last 12 years of Tory rule .... by a Tory

Letter: Truss has little grasp of UK’s structural problems
From Phillip Oppenheim, Conservative Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (1996-97), Todenham, Gloucestershire, UK

If financial services produced wealth for the whole economy, the UK would be a stunning success, not a country which has sunk from sixth in per capita gross domestic product in 1960 to just 20th now (excluding tax havens and oil rich nations, but including Norway).

This puts the UK well below the western European average.

While the dollar/sterling exchange rate grabs the headlines, the pound now lies 15 per cent below its 20-year average against the euro, the currency derided by many Conservative politicians. We are even hurtling towards parity with the Swiss franc — in 2000 the rate was 2.5 to the pound.

Over-financialisation of our economy and misallocation of resources is one cause of low UK investment and poor productivity.

Rather than reducing regulation and tax, we should be ending the carried interest tax break for private equity; better regulating pensions and fund managers who top-slice their percentage from our pensions, regardless of performance; preventing, rather than encouraging pension funds from investing in risky and opaque PE; and stopping PE from treating utilities like milch cows and offshoring profits to tax havens.

Nothing in last week’s mini-Budget (Report, September 24) indicates that our new leaders have the slightest grasp of the scale of our long-term, structural problems — or the solutions, above a half-digested, two-dimensional version of Thatcherism.

Rather than blustering about Britain being the “fifth richest economy”, we need honest leaders who accept that we are no longer a world power, stop pretending there is a special place for us in the anglosphere or Commonwealth and concentrate instead on internal development.

We need to rein back the worst abuses of financial services; reform education; encourage savings over consumption; reduce incentives to invest in property rather than productive assets; smarter, not higher defence spending — no more aircraft carriers; and, of course, rejoin the EU single market.

For that, I guess, we will have to wait for the departure of what will quite probably be the last ever Tory prime minister and the reform of our “unique” electoral system which now no longer delivers stability, only division and decline.

Phillip Oppenheim
Conservative Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (1996-97)
Todenham, Gloucestershire, UK

https://www.ft.com/content/9d358603-363 ... 55fe07d930

Make that man prime minister, or an adviser to the labour government in waiting.

[C T]

A work colleague attended both conferences.

They reckon Labour very much feel they are a government in waiting, although interesting suggested they would prefer an election end of 2024 to give a few more years to get ready.

The Conservatives are really in a bad way. A lot of acceptance of how screwed they are, with the focus turning towards limiting the time they're out to 1 term rather than 2 or 3. MP's almost to the point of giving up, gleefully saying "How am I supposed to defend that?".

[SaintK]

Probaly best not to make your speech in front of a blue screen next time!!



https://www.theguardian.com/artandde ... speeches

[tabascoboy]

[SaintK]

So it was him all the rumours were about!!!
One of the blonde slug's closest allies. Nasty piece of work.

Burns previously had to resign as a trade minister in 2020 after being found to have used his position to try to intimidate a member of the public. He was found by the standards committee to have made a series of veiled threats while attempting to intervene in his father’s dispute over a loan.

[fishfoodie]

Sex or drugs ?

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Or?

[tabascoboy]

Makes you wonder what he has done, given some of the previous attempts on behalf of other MPs to wave off sexual misconduct and corruption as not worth any punitive action...maybe just "looking at the dear leader in a funny way"

[fishfoodie]

Makes you wonder what he has done, given some of the previous attempts on behalf of other MPs to wave off sexual misconduct and corruption as not worth any punitive action...maybe just "looking at the dear leader in a funny way"

He was one of the bumblecunts most reliable allies, so throwing him out was always desirable, & if he hands you the excuse .....

[PCPhil]

Sex or drugs ?

And rock n roll.

[dpedin]

So it was him all the rumours were about!!!
One of the blonde slug's closest allies. Nasty piece of work.

Burns previously had to resign as a trade minister in 2020 after being found to have used his position to try to intimidate a member of the public. He was found by the standards committee to have made a series of veiled threats while attempting to intervene in his father’s dispute over a loan.

Why am I not surprised, as that lady from Bristol said, 'Not another one!'

Not sure it will reflect in polls etc given how low the Tories have actually sunk. It is however another nail in their Nasty Party coffin. Can they last until Xmas?

[Hal Jordan]

Sex or drugs ?

And rock n roll.

I doubt he's been involved in anything even remotely cool as rock 'n' roll.

[vball]

Sex and drugs ..... and sausage rolls then.

[Hal Jordan]

Maybe his serious misdemeanor is daring to consider if taxes could be used to support public services, or being seen giving money to a homeless person.

[PCPhil]

Someone must know what he did, please. Looking at him maybe he ate all those pies that Truss keeps bangin on about.

[Torquemada 1420]

Someone must know what he did, please. Looking at him maybe he ate all those pies that Truss keeps bangin on about.

That would have been Coffey.

[PCPhil]

Someone must know what he did, please. Looking at him maybe he ate all those pies that Truss keeps bangin on about.

That would have been Coffey.

Good point.

[Margin__Walker]

This Government is the shitshow that keeps on giving.

[C69]

Mel C was at the Tory conference earlier in the week speaking about sexual harassment coersion and abuse.

[fishfoodie]

This Government is the shitshow that keeps on giving.

I was under the distinct impression that he swung the other way ?

Is he an equal opportunity harasser ?

From the details that it was; in a bar, at the confrence, & with his track record; I had this down as another, Pincher episode, but Truss was showing a rare piece of good judgement, & wasn't going to defend the infensible, & threw him to the wolves straight away.

[Torquemada 1420]

Mel C was at the Tory conference earlier in the week speaking about sexual harassment coersion and abuse.

Giving or receiving?