Stop voting for fucking Tories

[SaintK]

Way to go Kwarteng!! Austerity here we come.................again!!

Kwasi Kwarteng will need to find £60bn of savings by 2026 to fill the gap left by unfunded tax cuts and the costs of extra borrowing triggered by a panicked reaction on international money markets to the chancellor’s “mini-budget”, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

The UK will also struggle to hit the chancellor’s 2.5% growth target, with economic forecasts by the investment bank Citigroup that the IFS uses to underpin its analysis showing the UK will struggle to grow at more than 0.8% on average over the next five years.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics ... ing-cuts

[fishfoodie]

Way to go Kwarteng!! Austerity here we come.................again!!

Kwasi Kwarteng will need to find £60bn of savings by 2026 to fill the gap left by unfunded tax cuts and the costs of extra borrowing triggered by a panicked reaction on international money markets to the chancellor’s “mini-budget”, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

The UK will also struggle to hit the chancellor’s 2.5% growth target, with economic forecasts by the investment bank Citigroup that the IFS uses to underpin its analysis showing the UK will struggle to grow at more than 0.8% on average over the next five years.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics ... ing-cuts

He & Dizzy must be very disappointed that the Nobel Committee didn't recognise their brilliance, & instead gave the Economics prize to some bluffer.

[I like neeps]

Way to go Kwarteng!! Austerity here we come.................again!!

Kwasi Kwarteng will need to find £60bn of savings by 2026 to fill the gap left by unfunded tax cuts and the costs of extra borrowing triggered by a panicked reaction on international money markets to the chancellor’s “mini-budget”, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

The UK will also struggle to hit the chancellor’s 2.5% growth target, with economic forecasts by the investment bank Citigroup that the IFS uses to underpin its analysis showing the UK will struggle to grow at more than 0.8% on average over the next five years.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics ... ing-cuts

Tax rises are the only answer.

It is also time to look at privatising the NHS. Not like America's wild west healthcare, but like Europe's.

[SaintK]

Another U Turn pending? How many ,000's of nurses is the NHS short of?

Thérèse Coffey has said nurses will not get a higher pay offer, as they vote on strike action for the first time in decades.

The Royal College of Nursing will ballot nurses this week, asking for a higher pay award as well as action to tackle pressures caused by surging vacancies.

The RCN says the government’s offer of a 3% wage rise “makes a difference to a nurse’s wage of 72p a week”.

[robmatic]

Not all pasture if all that well placed for collection and distribution of energy, but plenty is. And solar panels don't seem to have much of a negative impact on the weight animals add when grazing in panelled fields Vs just grass, and interestingly when you get down to smaller animals like sheep it seems to reduce their requirement for water which is a big win, probably a shading thing but I don't know if anyone has signed off on the data for that (I'm not saying they haven't just I don't read many agri journals)

I grew up on a sheep farm and the issue is more complicated than whether sheep can still graze. You are still reducing the productive capacity of the land because you can't access it with your machinery and silage it for the winter or apply slurry, fertiliser etc. However, I imagine many sheep farmers would go for the trade-off in return for a diversified or more stable income.

[Lobby]

Way to go Kwarteng!! Austerity here we come.................again!!

Kwasi Kwarteng will need to find £60bn of savings by 2026 to fill the gap left by unfunded tax cuts and the costs of extra borrowing triggered by a panicked reaction on international money markets to the chancellor’s “mini-budget”, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

The UK will also struggle to hit the chancellor’s 2.5% growth target, with economic forecasts by the investment bank Citigroup that the IFS uses to underpin its analysis showing the UK will struggle to grow at more than 0.8% on average over the next five years.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics ... ing-cuts

The BoE also had to step in for the second time and purchase more government bonds yesterday because of the risk to the Country's financial stability that this Government represents. They have also unusually pointed the blame at the Government. From the BBC:

"“A material risk to UK financial stability” are words the Bank of England uses rarely.

It is even more rare for several senior Bank executives to have indicated part of the blame for the turmoil may lie at the government’s door, as the result of domestic policy."

[sturginho]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... siders-say

In a move which should surprise no-one, chain smoking health secretary and all round friend of the tobacco industry Therese Coffey drops anti smoking plan...

[tabascoboy]

Well, great. So what was much more important that they had to discuss that instead?

[Ovals]

Well, great. So what was much more important that they had to discuss that instead?

Sure is nice to know that they have their fingers on the pulse !!

Institute of Fiscal Studies reckons they need to find £60bn of public spending cuts per year to balance the books and pay for their tax cuts !! Not sure if even the BofE can save the day if they don't come up with a convincing plan. And, if that plan involves cuts that many Tory MPs find intolerable, we could well see a total Government meltdown,

[Hal Jordan]

Well, great. So what was much more important that they had to discuss that instead?

Probably some culture war bullshit to try and distract from the shitshow.

[Deveron Boy]

Deputy PM Therese Coffey this am 'poor people are richer than you think' this morning on radio 4 - absolute clueless and offensive

[sockwithaticket]

Deputy PM Therese Coffey this am 'poor people are richer than you think' this morning on radio 4 - absolute clueless and offensive

As if she and the other privileged monstrosities in this cabinet have any actual experience of poor people beyond the reality bending, ideologically driven sterotypes they make up in their grotesque imaginations.

[Ovals]

Deputy PM Therese Coffey this am 'poor people are richer than you think' this morning on radio 4 - absolute clueless and offensive

But, don't worry, she's 'absolutely confident that our pensions are safe'. Words that, coming from her, send a chill down my spine.

[SaintK]

Been following the Teasury Questions in the HOuse on and off.
Has there ever been a more arrogant bunch of cunts (George Osborne excepted) in the Treasury?
Kwarteng answers are at best supercilious and arrogant and absolutely uninformative. "Problems. what problems?"
The other two jokers keep repeating "if you don't agree with us you're part of the anti-growth coalition"

[fishfoodie]

Deputy PM Therese Coffey this am 'poor people are richer than you think' this morning on radio 4 - absolute clueless and offensive

But, don't worry, she's 'absolutely confident that our pensions are safe'. Words that, coming from her, send a chill down my spine.

Oh they're definitely safe .... it's just whether or not they'll be worth the price of a pack of wine gums, or whether you'll be able to draw on it before you reach your 800th birthday

[yermum]

Not that I agree with any of his policies but Osbourne was at least competent.

these cunts are just as malign but are also fucking useless.

Its like watching chimpanzees running government. And not the cute nappy wearing ones, the big bite your face off ones.

[_Os_]

Institute of Fiscal Studies reckons they need to find £60bn of public spending cuts per year to balance the books and pay for their tax cuts !! Not sure if even the BofE can save the day if they don't come up with a convincing plan. And, if that plan involves cuts that many Tory MPs find intolerable, we could well see a total Government meltdown,

Monetary policy cannot solve fiscal insanity long term, BoE action provided breathing space so there could be a significant climbdown. The breathing space is now running out and there's no significant climbdown.

With higher interest rates factored in, the IFS analysis is the hole is now £62bn as you say. That IFS analysis states indexing universal credit to wages not inflation (this will probably kill people just like austerity did the first time) would save £13bn, cutting investment spending saves another £14bn, cutting the remaining £35bn means a 15% cut to everything else or if the NHS and defence are protected then a 27% cut to everything else (which includes education). I guess growth is still achieved even with a substantially less educated population through mass migration and low skilled work preserved for the non-migrants (Brexit's bizarre labour model).

The Tories are completely clueless, Kamikhasi should've been removed immediately. There's video of him floating around from back during the Brexit wars, where he dismisses economic forecasting and economics as a discipline. Everything that's happening now is because he doesn't care about economic forecasts. Truss has said today there will be no austerity under her.

The two morons need to climbdown, because this isn't looking credible at all.

[_Os_]

More from the Tory alternate reality.

The article isn't long but is very odd, the Treasury is the core of the "anti growth coalition" apparently. It ends on a mad one about the problem with James Bowler being appointed permanent secretary to the Treasury, is that he is a white man and this shows he's a representative of an evil establishment elite, before concluding that Truss is too weak and not extreme enough.

[tabascoboy]

The words "useless" and "waste of space" spring to mind

[salanya]

And amongst all the other madness, something about bankrupting the country, Truss still hasn't bothered to contact Sturgeon or Drakeford.
A new low for the Conservative and Unionist Party.
As well as hugely insulting to two of the devolved nations of the 'United Kingdom'.

I had low expectations of Truss as PM, but I didn't think she would be this atrocious.

[petej]

The words "useless" and "waste of space" spring to mind

Sometimes I think our media expects too much of our politicians under questioning. A lot of that is for kwamikasi to answer not for Theresa coffey but she has to answer effectively on things relating to her role so the answers on the nurses striking and smoking targets are poor.

[petej]

And amongst all the other madness, something about bankrupting the country, Truss still hasn't bothered to contact Sturgeon or Drakeford.
A new low for the Conservative and Unionist Party.
As well as hugely insulting to two of the devolved nations of the 'United Kingdom'.

I had low expectations of Truss as PM, but I didn't think she would be this atrocious.

It isn't a new low just another one. Again look where they sit economically and compare to European parties. Graph from the ft.

Image-1.png (585.45 KiB) Viewed 1581 times

[Insane_Homer]

Screenshot_20221011-211120.png (204.89 KiB) Viewed 1529 times

[geordie_6]

The words "useless" and "waste of space" spring to mind

Sometimes I think our media expects too much of our politicians under questioning. A lot of that is for kwamikasi to answer not for Theresa coffey but she has to answer effectively on things relating to her role so the answers on the nurses striking and smoking targets are poor.

True, but she is the deputy PM. It doesn't seem unreasonable to expect her briefing level to be similar to Dizzy Lizzy?

[_Os_]

That's because Bailey (BoE governor) just directly told pension funds they have 3 days to rebalance their positions and after that the BoE is taking no further action, as per the original intension that it was temporary action. Either the BoE caves in 3 days and starts QE to support pensions, which means the BoE loses credibility and erratic fiscal policy coming out of Downing Street has won, which would mean money printing and maybe the end of the £ being sound. Or the BoE sticks to its guns and pensions maybe collapse (but no one really knows).

Most of this goes away if the two morons backdown, but their belief cutting taxes beyond what is credibly possible produces growth and their ignorance/stupidity have combined to make that look very unlikely. Kamikwasi is trying to find over £40bn in spending cuts, whilst Truss is saying there definitely won't be austerity.

This is all being wilfully brought about by the Tories. It's all completely self inflicted.

[fishfoodie]

That's because Bailey (BoE governor) just directly told pension funds they have 3 days to rebalance their positions and after that the BoE is taking no further action, as per the original intension that it was temporary action. Either the BoE caves in 3 days and starts QE to support pensions, which means the BoE loses credibility and erratic fiscal policy coming out of Downing Street has won, which would mean money printing and maybe the end of the £ being sound. Or the BoE sticks to its guns and pensions maybe collapse (but no one really knows).

Most of this goes away if the two morons backdown, but their belief cutting taxes beyond what is credibly possible produces growth and their ignorance/stupidity have combined to make that look very unlikely. Kamikwasi is trying to find over £40bn in spending cuts, whilst Truss is saying there definitely won't be austerity.

This is all being wilfully brought about by the Tories. It's all completely self inflicted.

I don't think they can survive even a relatively small pension fund collapsing; but I have a horrible feeling that we aren't taking about small pension funds here, I think it's the biggies with the sword of Damocles hanging above their heads.

If a major pension goes under, we aren't just talking about losing a GE, or two; we're talking about the total destruction of the Conservative Party. It's hard to overstate how bad this could be.

[I like neeps]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/indi ... -bpgkw6prr

Lol. And Truss can't sack her and she'd bring down her government. What a palavar.

[Tichtheid]

If a major pension goes under, we aren't just talking about losing a GE, or two; we're talking about the total destruction of the Conservative Party. It's hard to overstate how bad this could be.

The Tory Party's demise was talked about before, when they were changing leaders from one dead-eyed arsehole to the next every few months in the early 2000s.

However, you could be correct, if Iraq is the thing that the left of the Labour-voting public will never forgive Blair and New Labour for, perhaps this is what will break the mistaken idea on the right that the Tories are somehow fiscally competent.

I'm not sure they can culture-war themselves out of this, but they will try.

[Tichtheid]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/indi ... -bpgkw6prr

Lol. And Truss can't sack her and she'd bring down her government. What a palavar.

We need a general election, asap.

[petej]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/indi ... -bpgkw6prr

Lol. And Truss can't sack her and she'd bring down her government. What a palavar.

We need a general election, asap.

Yep.

[Hal Jordan]

Braverman's father is Goan in ancestry, so is my father-in-law. It's not a huge community and most of their generation came over at around the same time in the 60s from Africa where their parents had been living.

Although I try to avoid discussing politics with relatives, Braverman came up, and my father-in-law said that he had got to know Braverman's father back in the day. His assessment? " He was a bloody idiot." It appears that the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree.

[The sun god]

That's because Bailey (BoE governor) just directly told pension funds they have 3 days to rebalance their positions and after that the BoE is taking no further action, as per the original intension that it was temporary action. Either the BoE caves in 3 days and starts QE to support pensions, which means the BoE loses credibility and erratic fiscal policy coming out of Downing Street has won, which would mean money printing and maybe the end of the £ being sound. Or the BoE sticks to its guns and pensions maybe collapse (but no one really knows).

Most of this goes away if the two morons backdown, but their belief cutting taxes beyond what is credibly possible produces growth and their ignorance/stupidity have combined to make that look very unlikely. Kamikwasi is trying to find over £40bn in spending cuts, whilst Truss is saying there definitely won't be austerity.

This is all being wilfully brought about by the Tories. It's all completely self inflicted.

I don't think they can survive even a relatively small pension fund collapsing; but I have a horrible feeling that we aren't taking about small pension funds here, I think it's the biggies with the sword of Damocles hanging above their heads.

If a major pension goes under, we aren't just talking about losing a GE, or two; we're talking about the total destruction of the Conservative Party. It's hard to overstate how bad this could be.

10 days ago I would have thought that the chances of a UK pension fund going tits up was remote even with the unprecedented volatility in the bond market but today ,I am not so sure.
Having looked at the numbers, particularly the leverage and the 'Hedges' put on using synthetic derivatives to the underlying investment positions, these funds are going to post massive losses
It appears that the UK is now practising a policy of Fiscal Dominance i.e, The BOE doing the Governments bidding which is the polar opposite of what they are mandated to do .

[I like neeps]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/indi ... -bpgkw6prr

Lol. And Truss can't sack her and she'd bring down her government. What a palavar.

We need a general election, asap.

They're like rats in a sack at the minute. We need them to destroy each other and therefore the conservative party forever first.

[robmatic]

That's because Bailey (BoE governor) just directly told pension funds they have 3 days to rebalance their positions and after that the BoE is taking no further action, as per the original intension that it was temporary action. Either the BoE caves in 3 days and starts QE to support pensions, which means the BoE loses credibility and erratic fiscal policy coming out of Downing Street has won, which would mean money printing and maybe the end of the £ being sound. Or the BoE sticks to its guns and pensions maybe collapse (but no one really knows).

Most of this goes away if the two morons backdown, but their belief cutting taxes beyond what is credibly possible produces growth and their ignorance/stupidity have combined to make that look very unlikely. Kamikwasi is trying to find over £40bn in spending cuts, whilst Truss is saying there definitely won't be austerity.

This is all being wilfully brought about by the Tories. It's all completely self inflicted.

I don't think they can survive even a relatively small pension fund collapsing; but I have a horrible feeling that we aren't taking about small pension funds here, I think it's the biggies with the sword of Damocles hanging above their heads.

If a major pension goes under, we aren't just talking about losing a GE, or two; we're talking about the total destruction of the Conservative Party. It's hard to overstate how bad this could be.

I would be very surprised if any pension fund collapses - the employer has to collapse first for that to happen. The reporting of this issue has been woeful, and I suspect that it's not the actual pension funds that are at risk but other players in the market. The payments out to pension fund members are spread out over decades and the scheme valuations don't happen particularly quickly. Generally speaking, DB funds will be happy with the current climate and yields rising because it will have a positive effect come valuation time due to the benefits becoming much cheaper to provide.

[Paddington Bear]

More from the Tory alternate reality.

The article isn't long but is very odd, the Treasury is the core of the "anti growth coalition" apparently. It ends on a mad one about the problem with James Bowler being appointed permanent secretary to the Treasury, is that he is a white man and this shows he's a representative of an evil establishment elite, before concluding that Truss is too weak and not extreme enough.

Treasury Orthodoxy over 30/40 years has seen large swathes of Britain become some of the poorest areas in Western Europe, this did not begin with Brexit and it is not unfair to suggest alternative approaches (the current alternative approach is batshit obviously)

[Tichtheid]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/indi ... -bpgkw6prr

Lol. And Truss can't sack her and she'd bring down her government. What a palavar.

We need a general election, asap.

They're like rats in a sack at the minute. We need them to destroy each other and therefore the conservative party forever first.

I'd quite like then to do that in opposition rather have them fuck us all over even more than they have done - who knew it could get worse than Johnson?

It could conceivably get worse than Truss after she's fired into the sun in a few months.

[SaintK]

Rees-Mogg "It's all the Bank of England's fault"

Rees-Mogg, the business secretary, refused to accept that the mini-budget was the primary cause of the market turmoil in the UK that has led to the Bank of England having to make emergency interventions to rescue pension funds. And he criticised the BBC presenter Mishal Husain for making the link, accusing her of being unprofessional. (See 9.21am.) Rees-Mogg suggested that it was the Bank itself that was mainly to blame, because it did not raise interest rates by as much as necessary in September.

[_Os_]

More from the Tory alternate reality.

The article isn't long but is very odd, the Treasury is the core of the "anti growth coalition" apparently. It ends on a mad one about the problem with James Bowler being appointed permanent secretary to the Treasury, is that he is a white man and this shows he's a representative of an evil establishment elite, before concluding that Truss is too weak and not extreme enough.

Treasury Orthodoxy over 30/40 years has seen large swathes of Britain become some of the poorest areas in Western Europe, this did not begin with Brexit and it is not unfair to suggest alternative approaches (the current alternative approach is batshit obviously)

That Spectator article is trying to use culture wars bullshit (that no normal person cares about) to explain the economy. Which was the point I was making, the stuff one side is pumping out is total madness, whatever reality they're in it's not the same one I'm in.

Getting into the actual substance. The immediate point is that "Treasury orthodoxy" looks almost conspiratorial if that's the primary explanation, it's Trump's "deep state" and "drain the swamp". The real explanation is that globalisation and the end of the Cold War unlocked a huge supply of labour, then computer and telecoms technology amplified this. This created a lot of new wealth, including in the UK, the UK hasn't stagnated for 30-40 years. What some advanced economies have failed to do (most evident in English speaking countries it seems) is ensure that new wealth was spread widely, rather than concentrated at the top and in specific geographic locations. Politics is mostly process driven not event driven, the process started with Thatcherism (which still dominates the orthodox position), Blair/New Labour and Cameron changed some parts of this model (and the orthodoxy too) but did not replace it. Then Brexit promised those that had been failed by this process total system change and no immigration, and those that had done well from this process no system change and also no immigration ... and what they got is a deranged version of Thatcherism (and now Reaganism) and even greater immigration.

Tory alternate reality is a responsibility free zone. 2022 UK is more or less a Tory creation. The structural problems aren't the fault of the external enemies the Tories have created (EU, immigrants), nor the internal enemies that have been invented (single mothers, benefits claimants, judges, remainers, the Treasury, and now "the anti growth coalition"). The problems and the lack of solutions are about Tory thought being dominant and any alternative being immediately destroyed as heretical. Which means the problem is with the voters too. New Labour mk2 is a real possibility now (a definite upgrade on what's currently in power), but that doesn't actually fix the problem. An electoral system that forces the creation of two dominant parties and forces a false consensus, is one of the bigger culprits in all this.

[fishfoodie]

We need a general election, asap.

They're like rats in a sack at the minute. We need them to destroy each other and therefore the conservative party forever first.

I'd quite like then to do that in opposition rather have them fuck us all over even more than they have done - who knew it could get worse than Johnson?

It could conceivably get worse than Truss after she's fired into the sun in a few months.

There don't seem to be any good paths out of this.

Either the Tory scum stay in power until they have to call a GE; & God knows what state the Economy is in by then; or there's a GE in a few months time, Labour get a landslide, & an utterly fucked economy, & because they have to make unpalatable decisions, & voters are thick, & Labour won't push PR, they probably lose the next GE, & the Tories are back in power, with Labour having done all the hard work.

[Paddington Bear]

More from the Tory alternate reality.

The article isn't long but is very odd, the Treasury is the core of the "anti growth coalition" apparently. It ends on a mad one about the problem with James Bowler being appointed permanent secretary to the Treasury, is that he is a white man and this shows he's a representative of an evil establishment elite, before concluding that Truss is too weak and not extreme enough.

Treasury Orthodoxy over 30/40 years has seen large swathes of Britain become some of the poorest areas in Western Europe, this did not begin with Brexit and it is not unfair to suggest alternative approaches (the current alternative approach is batshit obviously)

That Spectator article is trying to use culture wars bullshit (that no normal person cares about) to explain the economy. Which was the point I was making, the stuff one side is pumping out is total madness, whatever reality they're in it's not the same one I'm in.

Getting into the actual substance. The immediate point is that "Treasury orthodoxy" looks almost conspiratorial if that's the primary explanation, it's Trump's "deep state" and "drain the swamp". The real explanation is that globalisation and the end of the Cold War unlocked a huge supply of labour, then computer and telecoms technology amplified this. This created a lot of new wealth, including in the UK, the UK hasn't stagnated for 30-40 years. What some advanced economies have failed to do (most evident in English speaking countries it seems) is ensure that new wealth was spread widely, rather than concentrated at the top and in specific geographic locations. Politics is mostly process driven not event driven, the process started with Thatcherism (which still dominates the orthodox position), Blair/New Labour and Cameron changed some parts of this model (and the orthodoxy too) but did not replace it. Then Brexit promised those that had been failed by this process total system change and no immigration, and those that had done well from this process no system change and also no immigration ... and what they got is a deranged version of Thatcherism (and now Reaganism) and even greater immigration.

Tory alternate reality is a responsibility free zone. 2022 UK is more or less a Tory creation. The structural problems aren't the fault of the external enemies the Tories have created (EU, immigrants), nor the internal enemies that have been invented (single mothers, benefits claimants, judges, remainers, the Treasury, and now "the anti growth coalition"). The problems and the lack of solutions are about Tory thought being dominant and any alternative being immediately destroyed as heretical. Which means the problem is with the voters too. New Labour mk2 is a real possibility now (a definite upgrade on what's currently in power), but that doesn't actually fix the problem. An electoral system that forces the creation of two dominant parties and forces a false consensus, is one of the bigger culprits in all this.

A Treasury that was in favour of capital expenditure on infrastructure and energy and understood the value of assets as well as liabilities would have created a very different Britain in 2022 to the one we have.