Stop voting for fucking Tories

[_Os_]

I was a 'reluctant remainer' in 2016 but the events of the last few days have confirmed that (at least in economic terms) sovereignty is increasingly meaningless in for nations that are not the US (because it has the dollar) or possibly China (which can squash any resentment its economic policies cause).

If gilt markets and FX traders can overturn a governments budget and I think within a few days over throw a government the advantage of being outside the regulatory sphere of the EU/EEA and having a completely sovereign Parliament seem increasingly slim (compared the the economic and personnel advantages). Whilst I think EU membership it too contentious for some decades yet I hope a re-entry into the single market is now more likely (all those brilliant think tanks will have to find another lab for their ideas).

It goes further than this, one of the main left wing arguments for the EU regulatory framework is that it increases sovereignty for members. Multinationals that would otherwise act with impunity cannot ignore a market the size of the EU's, and therefore cannot ignore EU regulation as they could a smaller entity. And those multinationals cannot corrupt the process as easily as they can an individual state, because of the amount of member states they would need to corrupt and just the physical amount of people of institutions.

A lot of the Brexiter focus is on this stuff (because of who funds them). But individual members couldn't force Apple to adopt a universal charger standard, or Facebook to respect data security/privacy (Zuck just refused to appear before a UK parliament select committee, because it was irrelevant to him).

The problem with CU/SM membership, is the UK becomes a rule taker without being a rule maker, which is why all the Brexiters dropped this shortly after the referendum most of them having supported some version of it beforehand. It's the most long term viable Brexit, but obviously worse than membership. But (and it is a big but) ... think about what you've noticed about the markets a bit more. If the UK can't make this situation work economically (the numbers aren't looking good), then it's not unthinkable the market forces the UK back into the SM.

[SaintK]

Poor old Penny Mordaunt drew the short straw!!! Though seems to be using it as a job interview.

She pays tribute to the “courage” shown by Liz Truss in changing course.
The decision taken by our prime minister would have been a very tough one, politically and personally. Yet she has taken it, and she has done so because it is manifestly in the national interest.
She did not hesitate to do so because her focus is on the wellbeing of every one of our citizens.
It was the right thing to do and, whether you agree with this or not, it took courage to do it.
She says Starmer did not need courage to table today’s UQ. And she attacks Starmer for opposing Brexit.

[The sun god]

I see that she is now in hiding !!!!..... Unbelievable .

No, No; she's being Brave

I wonder what the urgent business is ?, new wallpaper, or is she packing her cases ?

She could actually resign citing health issues or some horseshit...... not an impossibility .
I must say Penny is looking rather Prime Ministerish at the despatch box.

[JM2K6]

[fishfoodie]

I see that she is now in hiding !!!!..... Unbelievable .

No, No; she's being Brave

I wonder what the urgent business is ?, new wallpaper, or is she packing her cases ?

She could actually resign citing health issues or some horseshit...... not an impossibility .
I must say Penny is looking rather Prime Ministerish at the despatch box.

Penny looks healthy enough

[fishfoodie]

We had 3 GEs in the space of 18 months back in the 80s, & we thought that was bad

[The sun god]

No, No; she's being Brave

I wonder what the urgent business is ?, new wallpaper, or is she packing her cases ?

She could actually resign citing health issues or some horseshit...... not an impossibility .
I must say Penny is looking rather Prime Ministerish at the despatch box.

Penny looks healthy enough

I certainly wouldn't disagree to testing her buoyancy in order to make a smooth entry....!!

[tc27]

I was a 'reluctant remainer' in 2016 but the events of the last few days have confirmed that (at least in economic terms) sovereignty is increasingly meaningless in for nations that are not the US (because it has the dollar) or possibly China (which can squash any resentment its economic policies cause).

If gilt markets and FX traders can overturn a governments budget and I think within a few days over throw a government the advantage of being outside the regulatory sphere of the EU/EEA and having a completely sovereign Parliament seem increasingly slim (compared the the economic and personnel advantages). Whilst I think EU membership it too contentious for some decades yet I hope a re-entry into the single market is now more likely (all those brilliant think tanks will have to find another lab for their ideas).

It goes further than this, one of the main left wing arguments for the EU regulatory framework is that it increases sovereignty for members. Multinationals that would otherwise act with impunity cannot ignore a market the size of the EU's, and therefore cannot ignore EU regulation as they could a smaller entity. And those multinationals cannot corrupt the process as easily as they can an individual state, because of the amount of member states they would need to corrupt and just the physical amount of people of institutions.

A lot of the Brexiter focus is on this stuff (because of who funds them). But individual members couldn't force Apple to adopt a universal charger standard, or Facebook to respect data security/privacy (Zuck just refused to appear before a UK parliament select committee, because it was irrelevant to him). One of the early

The problem with CU/SM membership, is the UK becomes a rule taker without being a rule maker, which is why all the Brexiters dropped this shortly after the referendum most of them having supported some version of it beforehand. It's the most long term viable Brexit, but obviously worse than membership. But (and it is a big but) ... think about what you've noticed about the markets a bit more. If the UK can't make this situation work economically (the numbers aren't looking good), then it's not unthinkable the market forces the UK back into the SM.

I agree with most of this.

I would say the disadvantage's of being inside the SM and outside the EU are overstated...EEA nations only ever implement part of the total EU acquis and they have their own legal mechanisms (not the ECJ) to enforce regulation. They also don't participate in many of the more objectionable EU core member requirements. Secondly its unlikely the UK would significantly diverge from EEA regulation in any one area in the future anyway (the EU/EEA is a regulatory superpower and nothing else) so being outside it practically gains very little.

The advantages are seamless trade with our largest market and a return to being able to travel to and live in the rest of the EEA..its a no brainer for me.

Also in general the world is entering a new period of instability and risk - anything that unifies is a welcome step.

[sefton]

After a handful of lickspittles the Tories can’t find a member to stand up for their government.

[tc27]

Rumours she's off to the Palace or going to Ukraine.

[sturginho]

Rumours she's off to the Palace or going to Ukraine.

She already seems to be unwell, sending her to the front seems harsh

[The sun god]

Rumours she's off to the Palace or going to Ukraine.

She already seems to be unwell, sending her to the front seems harsh

Not at all, she is well able for it..... Reminds me of Brad Pitt in the movie Fury.

[tc27]

Rumours she's off to the Palace or going to Ukraine.

She already seems to be unwell, sending her to the front seems harsh

.

Honestly I think the UKs response to the Ukraine invasion is a point of genuine pride and satisfaction. However if she's trying to use it as political cover I hope Zelensky tells her he's busy,

[salanya]

So after you sink the national economy in the first weeks in your new job, you fire your closest buddy for helping you, then you have to get Jeremy Hunt in to reverse everything you did in that first month. In response to which you don't turn up to parliament or media, and you are then described as 'brave'....

What alternative world are we living in?

[sturginho]

So after you sink the national economy in the first weeks in your new job, you fire your closest buddy for helping you, then you have to get Jeremy Hunt in to reverse everything you did in that first month. In response to which you don't turn up to parliament or media, and you are then described as 'brave'....

What alternative world are we living in?

Toryworld

[SaintK]

Rumours she's off to the Palace or going to Ukraine.

Nah, she's there and been in far more important meetings this afternoon

[JM2K6]

Rumours she's off to the Palace or going to Ukraine.

She already seems to be unwell, sending her to the front seems harsh

.

Honestly I think the UKs response to the Ukraine invasion is a point of genuine pride and satisfaction. However if she's trying to use it as political cover I hope Zelensky tells her he's busy,

Did it escape you every time Boris "had a phone call with Zelensky" every time there was a scandal? It's been used as political cover all year!

[salanya]

And now Hunt attacks Labour's historic economic policies, you know, from over 12 years ago, in response to Tory financial mismanagement.
And now he has a go at the SNP, to save himself having to answer genuine questions on the economy.

I'm not of any political party, but would love to see some genuine political debate in the UK one day.
Though that probably would be a sign of the apocalypse...

[Biffer]

I was a 'reluctant remainer' in 2016 but the events of the last few days have confirmed that (at least in economic terms) sovereignty is increasingly meaningless in for nations that are not the US (because it has the dollar) or possibly China (which can squash any resentment its economic policies cause).

If gilt markets and FX traders can overturn a governments budget and I think within a few days over throw a government the advantage of being outside the regulatory sphere of the EU/EEA and having a completely sovereign Parliament seem increasingly slim (compared the the economic and personnel advantages). Whilst I think EU membership it too contentious for some decades yet I hope a re-entry into the single market is now more likely (all those brilliant think tanks will have to find another lab for their ideas).

It goes further than this, one of the main left wing arguments for the EU regulatory framework is that it increases sovereignty for members. Multinationals that would otherwise act with impunity cannot ignore a market the size of the EU's, and therefore cannot ignore EU regulation as they could a smaller entity. And those multinationals cannot corrupt the process as easily as they can an individual state, because of the amount of member states they would need to corrupt and just the physical amount of people of institutions.

A lot of the Brexiter focus is on this stuff (because of who funds them). But individual members couldn't force Apple to adopt a universal charger standard, or Facebook to respect data security/privacy (Zuck just refused to appear before a UK parliament select committee, because it was irrelevant to him). One of the early

The problem with CU/SM membership, is the UK becomes a rule taker without being a rule maker, which is why all the Brexiters dropped this shortly after the referendum most of them having supported some version of it beforehand. It's the most long term viable Brexit, but obviously worse than membership. But (and it is a big but) ... think about what you've noticed about the markets a bit more. If the UK can't make this situation work economically (the numbers aren't looking good), then it's not unthinkable the market forces the UK back into the SM.

I agree with most of this.

I would say the disadvantage's of being inside the SM and outside the EU are overstated...EEA nations only ever implement part of the total EU acquis and they have their own legal mechanisms (not the ECJ) to enforce regulation. They also don't participate in many of the more objectionable EU core member requirements. Secondly its unlikely the UK would significantly diverge from EEA regulation in any one area in the future anyway (the EU/EEA is a regulatory superpower and nothing else) so being outside it practically gains very little.

The advantages are seamless trade with our largest market and a return to being able to travel to and live in the rest of the EEA..its a no brainer for me.

Also in general the world is entering a new period of instability and risk - anything that unifies is a welcome step.

The others members of EEA/EFTA don’t want the UK. It’d need to be a separate agreement.

[fishfoodie]

No need to worry guys, I'm sure Dizzy can turn things around, or if not her, you have a wealth of talent to choose from, to replace her .

[Tichtheid]

Two polls in the Grauniad have Lab with 32 and 36 point leads respectively.

The Tories are still polling at 23% and 20% in them.

You have to wonder what they would need to do to prevent that 20% voting for them

[tabascoboy]

[fishfoodie]

She's hosting dwinkies for the Cabinet tonight. I hope she isn't going to put booze on top of the horse tranquilizers she must have been popping earlier.

Remember, this is the woman controling the UKs nuclear deterrant !

[_Os_]

I agree with most of this.

I would say the disadvantage's of being inside the SM and outside the EU are overstated...EEA nations only ever implement part of the total EU acquis and they have their own legal mechanisms (not the ECJ) to enforce regulation. They also don't participate in many of the more objectionable EU core member requirements. Secondly its unlikely the UK would significantly diverge from EEA regulation in any one area in the future anyway (the EU/EEA is a regulatory superpower and nothing else) so being outside it practically gains very little.

The advantages are seamless trade with our largest market and a return to being able to travel to and live in the rest of the EEA..its a no brainer for me.

Also in general the world is entering a new period of instability and risk - anything that unifies is a welcome step.

The EU aren't going to move from the current situation until there's broad and consistent agreement in UK society and across the main parties to move closer to the EU. So I wonder how bad things are going to have to get to shift opinion enough. Labour are committed to improving on the TCA (eliminating checks on goods etc), that'll get rid of a lot of bad newspaper headlines (moronic the Tories haven't done it already), but a lot of the more silent and complex damage will still be happening. The longer this continues the more it impacts the dynamic effects (basically long term trend growth), making an economy less open means less competition which means less dynamism and innovation in businesses/labour/investments, and that means lower productivity growth. At the extreme end all the services and goods an economy produces become uncompetitive (North Korea), the UK will not be that bad but the longer this continues the worse it will get. 2022 is only year 2 of Brexit.

[JM2K6]

She's hosting dwinkies for the Cabinet tonight. I hope she isn't going to put booze on top of the horse tranquilizers she must have been popping earlier.

Remember, this is the woman controling the UKs nuclear deterrant !

You don't have to post EVERY thought that comes into your head, you know...

[dpedin]

She's hosting dwinkies for the Cabinet tonight. I hope she isn't going to put booze on top of the horse tranquilizers she must have been popping earlier.

Remember, this is the woman controling the UKs nuclear deterrant !

You don't have to post EVERY thought that comes into your head, you know...

Although she did look very 'tranquillised' during her 20mins without speaking stint in the Chamber! How brave of her!

Apparently her urgent Gov business this afternoon was a meeting with Graham Brady, him of 1922 fame. That must have been a fun discussion, once he had finished counting up all the letters that came in over the weekend.

[Paddington Bear]

She must be absolutely mentally crushed, probably dreamed of this her whole life and it’s gone worse than almost anyone predicted. From imagining yourself as Thatcher 2.0 to competing with a lettuce with a wig on. Has to hurt

[fishfoodie]

She must be absolutely mentally crushed, probably dreamed of this her whole life and it’s gone worse than almost anyone predicted. From imagining yourself as Thatcher 2.0 to competing with a lettuce with a wig on. Has to hurt

There is some percentage of me that is sympathatic; but ...

this is a serious job, for serious people, & if you can't deal with the slings & arrows, you shouldn't put yourself in the running !

Iron Lady 2.0 my arse; if you, or I had said being PM wasn't a job for.a woman, we'd have been pilloryed, & rightly so, because there are plenty of examples of women in power, who demonstrated they have the capacity to take the enormous stress that a job like this entails.

She isn't & never was up to the job !

[robmatic]

Two polls in the Grauniad have Lab with 32 and 36 point leads respectively.

The Tories are still polling at 23% and 20% in them.

You have to wonder what they would need to do to prevent that 20% voting for them

You need to remember that there is a certain proportion of people who just don't pay any attention to what is going on in politics but still get and use a vote.

[C69]

She must be absolutely mentally crushed, probably dreamed of this her whole life and it’s gone worse than almost anyone predicted. From imagining yourself as Thatcher 2.0 to competing with a lettuce with a wig on. Has to hurt

I doubt a lettuce has any feelings tbh.

[Biffer]

Two polls in the Grauniad have Lab with 32 and 36 point leads respectively.

The Tories are still polling at 23% and 20% in them.

You have to wonder what they would need to do to prevent that 20% voting for them

You need to remember that there is a certain proportion of people who just don't pay any attention to what is going on in politics but still get and use a vote.

Yeah, and you get it on both sides, always voted Tory, always will, without considering who they’re voting for or what policies. Same with the dad voted Labour, grandad voted Labour, always been a labour family lot.

[tabascoboy]

She must be absolutely mentally crushed, probably dreamed of this her whole life and it’s gone worse than almost anyone predicted. From imagining yourself as Thatcher 2.0 to competing with a lettuce with a wig on. Has to hurt

Douglas Adams got it

“The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.

To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.

To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”

[Tichtheid]

Two polls in the Grauniad have Lab with 32 and 36 point leads respectively.

The Tories are still polling at 23% and 20% in them.

You have to wonder what they would need to do to prevent that 20% voting for them

You need to remember that there is a certain proportion of people who just don't pay any attention to what is going on in politics but still get and use a vote.

Well yes, but just on a purely selfish level there won't be too many people who haven't noticed their energy bills rise, their mortgages or rents rise, the price of food increase and all manner of things that have an impact on their lives.

I presume they will be wondering wtf is going on.

[Raggs]

Two polls in the Grauniad have Lab with 32 and 36 point leads respectively.

The Tories are still polling at 23% and 20% in them.

You have to wonder what they would need to do to prevent that 20% voting for them

You need to remember that there is a certain proportion of people who just don't pay any attention to what is going on in politics but still get and use a vote.

Well yes, but just on a purely selfish level there won't be too many people who haven't noticed their energy bills rise, their mortgages or rents rise, the price of food increase and all manner of things that have an impact on their lives.

I presume they will be wondering wtf is going on.

Semi wealthy elderly with mortgage paid off. They'll have been slightly impacted but be firmly of the opinion that it's down to the youth, immigrants and that other lot would have been far worse.

[fishfoodie]

You need to remember that there is a certain proportion of people who just don't pay any attention to what is going on in politics but still get and use a vote.

Well yes, but just on a purely selfish level there won't be too many people who haven't noticed their energy bills rise, their mortgages or rents rise, the price of food increase and all manner of things that have an impact on their lives.

I presume they will be wondering wtf is going on.

Semi wealthy elderly with mortgage paid off. They'll have been slightly impacted but be firmly of the opinion that it's down to the youth, immigrants and that other lot would have been far worse.

Well I'm reading that the Gas price cap will be £4k in April, so that's at a level where there are plenty of people who won't qualify for the ongoing support, but don't have that kind of cash lying around in the couch.

Plus I believe Hunt threw out there that the triple-lock wasn't sacrosact.

[fishfoodie]

[Slick]

She must be absolutely mentally crushed, probably dreamed of this her whole life and it’s gone worse than almost anyone predicted. From imagining yourself as Thatcher 2.0 to competing with a lettuce with a wig on. Has to hurt

Douglas Adams got it

“The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.

To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.

To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”

I thought that was Billy Connelly

[Happyhooker]

She must be absolutely mentally crushed, probably dreamed of this her whole life and it’s gone worse than almost anyone predicted. From imagining yourself as Thatcher 2.0 to competing with a lettuce with a wig on. Has to hurt

Douglas Adams got it

“The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.

To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.

To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”

I thought that was Billy Connelly

you lot think everything was done first by a scot

[fishfoodie]

I suppose the good news is that it's currently just the one, remaining, fund, but the wording suggests that there were a number of others, who are worth a shitload less than they were a month or two ago.

Britain's financial regulators have identified one remaining fund at an asset manager which would have faced a series of "knockouts" and potential collapse if gilt yields had risen markedly this morning.

A half percentage point rise in the interest rates on government bonds would have left this fund, whose identity Sky News is protecting, having to conduct a "firesale" of government bonds, we have learnt.

However, since the problems are located specifically in a single fund, the Bank of England believes that its collapse would not provoke a system-wide problem that would necessitate its intervention.

https://news.sky.com/story/single-fund- ... s-12722817

[sturginho]

Good fucking riddance