Stop voting for fucking Tories

[_Os_]

they have become hostage to the ERG/Tufton group

True but it's also worse. They're divided into many groups and cannot govern. Truss even meets these different groups separately, to lobby them separately presumably using different arguments.

The ERG faction, mostly older MPs or ones who are young-ish but not groomed from a young age for leadership roles, they're the 2nd/3rd rate that weren't supposed to have much power and would not have without this group. (most opposed to: one nation, Sunak)
The Tufton faction, all the young/middle aged cohort that were supposed to take over the party and had been groomed for that role. (most opposed to: one nation, Johnson, Sunak)
The one nation faction, has been heavily purged but refers to "liberals", normally doesn't work as a tag because the voting record of these "liberals" is the same as the rest, it's more about the form than the substance. (most opposed to: ERG, Tufton, Johnson)
The red wall MPs, new MPs without any profile, not that high quality and not well organised, to the left of the one nation faction on anything of substance. (most opposed to: one nation?, Sunak?, Tufton?)
The Johnson faction, a personality cult the pay off being getting back into high office if they win. (most opposed to: Tufton, one nation, Sunak)
The Sunak faction, those with an Osborne-esque outlook and/or want high office if he wins. (most opposed to: ERG, Tufton, Johnson)
The windsocks, those that just back the incumbent, characters that always seem to be there angrily supporting the leader.

There's not much evidence they're capable of forming a stable government from this. There's minimum 4 parties in all that: a far right party obsessed with being anti-EU and anti-immigration, a libertarian party that's pro-immigration and anti-green, a centre right party that's pro-austerity and pro-green, a Lexit type party that's anti-austerity and anti-immigration.

[Blackmac]

A lot of people across the country hold conservative views, I oppose them vehemently and think that they are wrong, but I also respect the fact that this is not in any way a minority view, especially in rural communities.

The Tories have abandoned their constituents, they've been taken over by the interests of hedge funds and Big Corp at the expense of the population, they deserve to wither and die as a party.

I was thinking about this recently.

When I was a student I was a member (for a time) of the Conservative party. The party I grew up with in the 60s in Scotland could be described in retrospect as 'noblesse oblige' Tories. They were the party of the landed gentry and the aristocracy*, they viewed ruling as their birth right, and they were opposed to unions and other such communist trends. But they also viewed it as their duty to lead the country, not for their own betterment, but for the general good. Albeit in a paternalist 'chaps who went to private schools know best' way.

There was much that was wrong with them and their attitudes then, but their sense of duty to the country is the one thing that should have been preserved above all else, but is the thing that has most obviously gone missing.

Lots of stereotypes and simplifications in that. Plus a few generalisations.

* my family were neither landed gentry or aristocracy, though I did go to a private school. We were aspirational small business people.

I've always had the same, possibly naive, opinion. Politicians in the past generally had a sense of duty and you felt that regardless of their political differences, they had the good of the country at heart. That all seems to have changed and we now have a bunch of self serving cnuts, on all sides. Christ knows how it started but there certainly appears to be far too many who have gone straight into politics and never done a proper days work in their life.

[yermum]

I disagreed with their political ideas but folk like Heseltine and Clarke were serious people with the good of the country at the centre of their motivations.

This current bunch of clowns are cosplayers and LARPing their way around the great offices of state. It is making a mockery of the UK.

[tabascoboy]

[SaintK]

Fuck me the blonde slug blagging yet another Caribbean holiday.

[_Os_]

I disagreed with their political ideas but folk like Heseltine and Clarke were serious people with the good of the country at the centre of their motivations.

This current bunch of clowns are cosplayers and LARPing their way around the great offices of state. It is making a mockery of the UK.

The galaxy brains in their thinktanks are often quite low quality too. That ecosystem would've collapsed without dark money. Which is also why their galaxy brains aren't the highest quality, anyone with real ability can afford to forgo dark money.

[tabascoboy]

Somehow I have doubts that this will be of much help or use

[Slick]

Knew we would be in for some more fun today, but the PM not swiping her pass is a cracking start to the day

On a human level, her husband has to take her aside and tell her to quit, this is going to end really horribly for her I fear

[dpedin]

Apparently 13 Tory MPs have now publicly called for Truss to go and its only 11.15am! Most of them don't get up until 11'ish and will be waiting for Jeeves to serve them eggs Benedict and earl tray tea. Once they get to their subsidised 3 course lunch in HoC around 1.00'ish then I expect more will be calling for her to go. She will struggle to last the day.

[Tichtheid]

[Paddington Bear]

A lot of people across the country hold conservative views, I oppose them vehemently and think that they are wrong, but I also respect the fact that this is not in any way a minority view, especially in rural communities.

The Tories have abandoned their constituents, they've been taken over by the interests of hedge funds and Big Corp at the expense of the population, they deserve to wither and die as a party.

I was thinking about this recently.

When I was a student I was a member (for a time) of the Conservative party. The party I grew up with in the 60s in Scotland could be described in retrospect as 'noblesse oblige' Tories. They were the party of the landed gentry and the aristocracy*, they viewed ruling as their birth right, and they were opposed to unions and other such communist trends. But they also viewed it as their duty to lead the country, not for their own betterment, but for the general good. Albeit in a paternalist 'chaps who went to private schools know best' way.

There was much that was wrong with them and their attitudes then, but their sense of duty to the country is the one thing that should have been preserved above all else, but is the thing that has most obviously gone missing.

Lots of stereotypes and simplifications in that. Plus a few generalisations.

* my family were neither landed gentry or aristocracy, though I did go to a private school. We were aspirational small business people.

I read a very good biography of Harold MacMillan during covid and it's hard to escape the conclusions you draw above, not just of him but also a whole generation of polticians as well. Worth noting that their ideas of the State were in absolutely no way libertarian either.

The sense of duty has just disappeared (I don't think this is in any way exclusive to the Tory Party, as the Blair and Brown governments showed), and the standards of intellectual rigour have collapsed across politics as well. I don't think it's in any way unfair to describe Truss as the stupidest PM of the modern era, and love or hate her predecessors I don't think it's even arguable. However again she's a symptom not a cause, listen to any parliamentary debate, follow a bunch of MPs online and you see midwit level analysis and thought at best. She was considered a Tory A Lister after all, what on earth were the criteria?

We've rightly discarded a lot of the State defended and built by noblesse oblige types, but threw the baby out with the bathwater whilst we did it.

[tabascoboy]

[The sun god]

She is the 12th PM of the UK since I was born in 1963 and without a shadow of a doubt she has the lowest intellect of any of them.
Is this reverse Darwinism ?

[tabascoboy]

[The sun god]

Truss meeting Brady..... Both of them should get the gate.

[JM2K6]

Knew we would be in for some more fun today, but the PM not swiping her pass is a cracking start to the day

On a human level, her husband has to take her aside and tell her to quit, this is going to end really horribly for her I fear

How horribly are we talking?


Should I fetch the Lemsip?

[JM2K6]

The sense of duty has just disappeared (I don't think this is in any way exclusive to the Tory Party, as the Blair and Brown governments showed)

I'm curious about this. Do you have any examples in mind? Both leaders clearly had a strong sense of duty, and Labour certainly did plenty to try and improve things for the whole of British society rather than just the rich, but I won't pretend I remember specifics of whether cabinet members were just there for themselves and to seek & maintain power above all else.

(This isn't a gotcha post!)

[I like neeps]

Knew we would be in for some more fun today, but the PM not swiping her pass is a cracking start to the day

On a human level, her husband has to take her aside and tell her to quit, this is going to end really horribly for her I fear

How horribly are we talking?


Should I fetch the Lemsip?

Considering everything that's known about Truss' private life it's doubtful her husband has a huge influence over her decision making.

I expect once she's defenistrated a divorce looms.

[The sun god]

wasn't he a pyramid scheme founder back in the noughties/ early teens.....

[sockwithaticket]

wasn't he a pyramid scheme founder back in the noughties/ early teens.....

Yes. Seemingly fairly well documented. That he's anywhere near power is yet another indictment of this iteration of the Conservative party.

[The sun god]

Knew we would be in for some more fun today, but the PM not swiping her pass is a cracking start to the day

On a human level, her husband has to take her aside and tell her to quit, this is going to end really horribly for her I fear

How horribly are we talking?


Should I fetch the Lemsip?

Considering everything that's known about Truss' private life it's doubtful her husband has a huge influence over her decision making.

I expect once she's defenistrated a divorce looms.

He is a cuckold..... poor fcuker. Doubt he could show his face in Thomond Park anymore with getting the piss seriously taken.

[Slick]

The sense of duty has just disappeared (I don't think this is in any way exclusive to the Tory Party, as the Blair and Brown governments showed)

I'm curious about this. Do you have any examples in mind? Both leaders clearly had a strong sense of duty, and Labour certainly did plenty to try and improve things for the whole of British society rather than just the rich, but I won't pretend I remember specifics of whether cabinet members were just there for themselves and to seek & maintain power above all else.

(This isn't a gotcha post!)

I contemplated a post earlier about how this is rife in all parties now but I couldn’t pull up any examples on the Labour side I have to say. My recollection is certainly that Blair and definitely Brown had a strong streak of doing the right thing

[Paddington Bear]

The sense of duty has just disappeared (I don't think this is in any way exclusive to the Tory Party, as the Blair and Brown governments showed)

I'm curious about this. Do you have any examples in mind? Both leaders clearly had a strong sense of duty, and Labour certainly did plenty to try and improve things for the whole of British society rather than just the rich, but I won't pretend I remember specifics of whether cabinet members were just there for themselves and to seek & maintain power above all else.

(This isn't a gotcha post!)

Yes I was referencing their governments and entourage more than them on a personal level. As a non-exhaustive/non-researched list, the whole government becoming secondary to a Blair/Brown psychodrama, things like the introduction of Alastair Campbell and the rise of the SPAD into the actual machinery of government, sending regiments to Iraq without protective equipment and a general sense of short termism (the roots of our energy predicament go back to this time, constitutional reform from the back of a fag packet, spin spin spin etc) would be my starting points.

Things have got worse, massively so, under Boris and Truss, but I would say the Thick of It is and was so funny because it was a very accurate parody of the attitudes of the Labour Government at the time. For large parts of the cabinet and wider government nothing was important bar publicity and tomorrow's headlines.

[geordie_6]

Lloyd Russell-Moyle, Labour MP, just on Sky News describing what he saw in the commons last night. Claims to have witnessed a distressed and emotional male MP having his arms grabbed and a hand in his back in order to get him into the voting lobby.

[fishfoodie]

Lloyd Russell-Moyle, Labour MP, just on Sky News describing what he saw in the commons last night. Claims to have witnessed a distressed and emotional male MP having his arms grabbed and a hand in his back in order to get him into the voting lobby.

Theo Usherwood said he's seen other photos that are much worse, than the one that everyone has seen.

[tabascoboy]

Either everything's going to happen or nothing's going to happen

[Happyhooker]

wasn't he a pyramid scheme founder back in the noughties/ early teens.....

Yes. Seemingly fairly well documented. That he's anywhere near power is yet another indictment of this iteration of the Conservative party.

under pseudonyms as well. so fucking dodgy

[fishfoodie]

Either everything's going to happen or nothing's going to happen

Well at least she didn't have time to redecorate

[Slick]

Lloyd Russell-Moyle, Labour MP, just on Sky News describing what he saw in the commons last night. Claims to have witnessed a distressed and emotional male MP having his arms grabbed and a hand in his back in order to get him into the voting lobby.

Sounds like he needs to toughen the fuck up, to be fair

[fishfoodie]

Lloyd Russell-Moyle, Labour MP, just on Sky News describing what he saw in the commons last night. Claims to have witnessed a distressed and emotional male MP having his arms grabbed and a hand in his back in order to get him into the voting lobby.

Sounds like he needs to toughen the fuck up, to be fair

You don't think he was entitled to be in his workplace, & reasonably expect not to be physically assaulted ?

[JM2K6]

The sense of duty has just disappeared (I don't think this is in any way exclusive to the Tory Party, as the Blair and Brown governments showed)

I'm curious about this. Do you have any examples in mind? Both leaders clearly had a strong sense of duty, and Labour certainly did plenty to try and improve things for the whole of British society rather than just the rich, but I won't pretend I remember specifics of whether cabinet members were just there for themselves and to seek & maintain power above all else.

(This isn't a gotcha post!)

Yes I was referencing their governments and entourage more than them on a personal level. As a non-exhaustive/non-researched list, the whole government becoming secondary to a Blair/Brown psychodrama, things like the introduction of Alastair Campbell and the rise of the SPAD into the actual machinery of government, sending regiments to Iraq without protective equipment and a general sense of short termism (the roots of our energy predicament go back to this time, constitutional reform from the back of a fag packet, spin spin spin etc) would be my starting points.

Things have got worse, massively so, under Boris and Truss, but I would say the Thick of It is and was so funny because it was a very accurate parody of the attitudes of the Labour Government at the time. For large parts of the cabinet and wider government nothing was important bar publicity and tomorrow's headlines.

Got it - also people like Mandelson I guess, where personalities making names for themselves became a thing.

[C69]

I hope Liz Tells him to fuck off and refuses to resign.

[Slick]

Lloyd Russell-Moyle, Labour MP, just on Sky News describing what he saw in the commons last night. Claims to have witnessed a distressed and emotional male MP having his arms grabbed and a hand in his back in order to get him into the voting lobby.

Sounds like he needs to toughen the fuck up, to be fair

You don't think he was entitled to be in his workplace, & reasonably expect not to be physically assaulted ?

Yes

[Lobby]

I'm curious about this. Do you have any examples in mind? Both leaders clearly had a strong sense of duty, and Labour certainly did plenty to try and improve things for the whole of British society rather than just the rich, but I won't pretend I remember specifics of whether cabinet members were just there for themselves and to seek & maintain power above all else.

(This isn't a gotcha post!)

Yes I was referencing their governments and entourage more than them on a personal level. As a non-exhaustive/non-researched list, the whole government becoming secondary to a Blair/Brown psychodrama, things like the introduction of Alastair Campbell and the rise of the SPAD into the actual machinery of government, sending regiments to Iraq without protective equipment and a general sense of short termism (the roots of our energy predicament go back to this time, constitutional reform from the back of a fag packet, spin spin spin etc) would be my starting points.

Things have got worse, massively so, under Boris and Truss, but I would say the Thick of It is and was so funny because it was a very accurate parody of the attitudes of the Labour Government at the time. For large parts of the cabinet and wider government nothing was important bar publicity and tomorrow's headlines.

Got it - also people like Mandelson I guess, where personalities making names for themselves became a thing.

There was also the Labour spin doctor who suggested 9/11 was ‘a good day to bury bad news’.

[I like neeps]

I hope Liz Tells him to fuck off and refuses to resign.

She really should for the lols. Every day clung to is one fewer shortest ever PM day she has.

[Lobby]

Therese Coffey and Tory Party chairman Jake Berry in Downing Street with Dizzy Lizzie and Graham Brady.

Coffey to be caretaker PM while the Tories work out who they want to appoint?

[petej]

The sense of duty has just disappeared (I don't think this is in any way exclusive to the Tory Party, as the Blair and Brown governments showed)

I'm curious about this. Do you have any examples in mind? Both leaders clearly had a strong sense of duty, and Labour certainly did plenty to try and improve things for the whole of British society rather than just the rich, but I won't pretend I remember specifics of whether cabinet members were just there for themselves and to seek & maintain power above all else.

(This isn't a gotcha post!)

Yes I was referencing their governments and entourage more than them on a personal level. As a non-exhaustive/non-researched list, the whole government becoming secondary to a Blair/Brown psychodrama, things like the introduction of Alastair Campbell and the rise of the SPAD into the actual machinery of government, sending regiments to Iraq without protective equipment and a general sense of short termism (the roots of our energy predicament go back to this time, constitutional reform from the back of a fag packet, spin spin spin etc) would be my starting points.

Things have got worse, massively so, under Boris and Truss, but I would say the Thick of It is and was so funny because it was a very accurate parody of the attitudes of the Labour Government at the time. For large parts of the cabinet and wider government nothing was important bar publicity and tomorrow's headlines.

Worth reminding you that Blair/Brown did restart nuclear discussion and programs from it's slumber and did a lot on renewables and insulation (go look at the collapse of that under call me dave) and the roots of our predicament pre date them (look at what Sweden has done in heating instead of gas).

[Tichtheid]

statement from No 10 at 1:30

[Biffer]

I don’t think she’s the dumbest. That was Boris. But people are still subconsciously influenced by the class system and give him the benefit of the ‘posh voice, must be smart’ thing. You guys don’t even realise you’re doing it.

Don’t get me wrong, truss is thick as fucking pigshit. But Boris is dumber.

[JM2K6]

I don’t think she’s the dumbest. That was Boris. But people are still subconsciously influenced by the class system and give him the benefit of the ‘posh voice, must be smart’ thing. You guys don’t even realise you’re doing it.

Don’t get me wrong, truss is thick as fucking pigshit. But Boris is dumber.

Not sure about this. Boris is nowhere near as clever as he likes to make out, but he's reasonably quick witted. Truss doesn't even have that. She is quite obviously thicker than most of her colleagues.