What's going on in Ukraine?

[tabascoboy]

[tabascoboy]

[TB63]

[Niegs]

[Uncle fester]

BBC News - Damaged cable leaves Shetland cut off from mainland
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... d-63326102

Suspicious...

[Uncle fester]

Twatter suggests Russians are robbing Kherson blind as they retreat. The more washing machines they take, the less room for human shield hostages.

[tabascoboy]

And this is a little bizarre, possibly a black market theft and supply of cameras needed for Russian drones



https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/150- ... de-stolder

[tabascoboy]

In the Belgorod region of Russia, somehow I doubt this was an accident!

[laurent]

And this is a little bizarre, possibly a black market theft and supply of cameras needed for Russian drones



https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/150- ... de-stolder

First one is fake

[tabascoboy]

[Uncle fester]

Is it still the case that military in civilian clothing can be shot out of hand?

Can't see Ukraine wasting their soldiers lives in frontal attacks on the city. They will bypass them and hit a weaker spot.

[Flockwitt]

Is it still the case that military in civilian clothing can be shot out of hand?

Can't see Ukraine wasting their soldiers lives in frontal attacks on the city. They will bypass them and hit a weaker spot.

If it comes down to the point where Kherson city is all that is left of the north side of the Dnipro Russia will have to abandon it regardless. As soon as the Dnipro river comes under conventional artillery besides HIMARs fire control the place is untenable to hold.

[PornDog]

What are a bunch of Russian troops going to do if completely cut off from resupply and surrounded*

Somehow I don't think this will end as the Russians expect it to.

[Uncle fester]

I thought they'd try to use civilians as a human shield to protect their own soldiers. Maybe that's still their plan.

[geordie_6]

I thought they'd try to use civilians as a human shield to protect their own soldiers. Maybe that's still their plan.

Seems more like they are using their troops as human shields to protect their looted washing machines.

[tabascoboy]

A little happier news for Ukraine, as the mens national rugby team takes the field for the first time since the invasion ( away from home of course )

[fishfoodie]

BBC News - Damaged cable leaves Shetland cut off from mainland
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... d-63326102

Suspicious...

Hmm

[tabascoboy]

[tabascoboy]

[Margin__Walker]

This all goes down quickly.

[laurent]

Apparently expecting some big moves in Kherson.

Heard some stuff happening near Bakhmut too.

As the Kherson Front collapses there will be more resources for the south east.

The current Media blackout is really efficient and none of the OS-int/ Historian / ex military want to be the first one to break the silence.

[petej]

This all goes down quickly.

Totally crazy only about 10 seconds between being hit by the missile and being on the ground.

[tabascoboy]

Liars going to lie



And another "unplanned landing" from Russian Air Force. Two inside a week.

[tabascoboy]

[Mahoney]

This all goes down quickly.

Totally crazy only about 10 seconds between being hit by the missile and being on the ground.

As far as I could tell there was almost no time between being hit and him ejecting - how on earth did he respond so quickly? My brief google suggests that SU-25s don't have automatic ejection.

[TB63]

[fishfoodie]

As far as I could tell there was almost no time between being hit and him ejecting - how on earth did he respond so quickly? My brief google suggests that SU-25s don't have automatic ejection.

Evolution in action.

He's probably an experienced low-level pilot, & he knows that there's no fucking around, trying to save the aircraft, or make an emergency landing, or any such shite.

His only possible action was to eject the instant he was hit, & his reactions were good enough to get him out alive.

[laurent]

As far as I could tell there was almost no time between being hit and him ejecting - how on earth did he respond so quickly? My brief google suggests that SU-25s don't have automatic ejection.

Evolution in action.

He's probably an experienced low-level pilot, & he knows that there's no fucking around, trying to save the aircraft, or make an emergency landing, or any such shite.

His only possible action was to eject the instant he was hit, & his reactions were good enough to get him out alive.

A french Pilot did an analysis.

Basically he hit Powerlines (lost his rudder ) Climbed and ejected.

in french but the relevent bits are highlighted.

[Mahoney]

Cool, thanks!

[tabascoboy]

Imagine doing this job and going home at the end of the day satisfied with what you've done

[inactionman]

Some kind souls in the Czech Republic have given a local monument to the Red Army a sprucing.

[Blake]

Imagine doing this job and going home at the end of the day satisfied with what you've done

For all the shitty whataboutisms in the comments, they are not wrong when they say this isn't all that different from US Drone operators that bombed weddings and schools.
They also sit in air-conditioned control rooms somewhere away from danger, get some target coordinates, try to hit the target and go home at the end of the day.

Sure, we can moralise about the legitimacy of the target and the attitudes towards collateral damage...but at the end of the day they are just automatons that believe in the mission, obey orders and trust in the the intelligence they have received.

[petej]

It's completely different. I won't explain why as you would have to Russian or thick as fuck not to see how those operators and the American operators are

Yep. The Americans were trying to hit military targets the Russians are intentionally hitting schools, hospitals and power stations.

[Calculon]

I would think that power stations are legitimate military targets, and in defence of the Russians, I think generally when they’ve hit hospitals, apartment blocks and children’s playgrounds - it’s mostly due to faulty targeting or inaccurate missiles. Not that they seem to care about that, and the Russian state is fascistic in nature and have openly stated their intent on committing genocide in Ukraine, engaged in systematic torture, rape, looting, and the murder of Ukrainian civilians, and the torture and murder of Ukrainian POWs.

[laurent]

I would think that power stations are legitimate military targets, and in defence of the Russians, I think generally when they’ve hit hospitals, apartment blocks and children’s playgrounds - it’s mostly due to faulty targeting or inaccurate missiles. Not that they seem to care about that, and the Russian state is fascistic in nature and have openly stated their intent on committing genocide in Ukraine, engaged in systematic torture, rape, looting, and the murder of Ukrainian civilians, and the torture and murder of Ukrainian POWs.

Power Stations are civilian target. The military operate without them in all areas. The Russian military and government are operating a blitz against civilians in the hope that they will turn against their government. Seeing that the Ukrainian are winning ground back on the field this is quite unlikely.

[tabascoboy]

Mossad hit? KSIR = Corps of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution

[Blake]

South Afeicans and Russians up a tree K.I.S.S.I.N.G

Yeah, no. It's a little more nuanced than that.

My support for Ukraine and condemnation of Russia's actions is unconditional.

My comment was more related to soldiers, specifically those programming missiles or piloting drones, being vilified for hitting (or attempting to hit) civilian targets. Regardless of if they are Russian or American, they get orders to hit target coordinates thousands of miles away without necessarily seeing it or knowing what it is. If they are lucky they might get some intelligence relating to the target, but by the point it gets to them those orders have gone through so many gatekeepers and are likely so redacted and altered and possibly even flat out fabricated, that it might look very convincing for a brainwashed grunt. Whether it's Russian Military Intelligence falsely claiming the school or hospital is being used by the military and there are no civilians present or the CIA leaving out that the Al-Qaeda mastermind in the compound is attending a wedding and there are many children present, the soldier pulling the trigger or programming the missile might not have that context.

I'll be the first to admit that this is being VERY generous towards the Russians here, but the reality is that it is a lot more likely for boots-on-the-ground troops to realise their orders are complete bullshit and war crimes when they reach their target and find a bunch of civilians, that it is for these guys or US drone pilots just looking looking at a map or a drone control monitor and take the intelligence they were given at face value. One could argue it's even more difficult for them when they have a superior officer or spook hovering over their shoulder while executing the order.

That being said, I'm glad they are getting exposed and subjected to this massive doxxing. This type of psyops against those Russian soldiers is an interesting new development in modern warfare. I just think there should be some nuance in the culpability of who is picking the targets and who is firing at them, and that goes for the USAF as well.

We tend to give the US the benefit of the doubt that their targeting of civilians is always accidental collateral damage or due to bad intelligence, and maybe that is a bit naive. Sometimes they might just be a little too trigger happy, despite all the judicial safeguards they put in place prior to targeting.

[Calculon]

I would think that power stations are legitimate military targets, and in defence of the Russians, I think generally when they’ve hit hospitals, apartment blocks and children’s playgrounds - it’s mostly due to faulty targeting or inaccurate missiles. Not that they seem to care about that, and the Russian state is fascistic in nature and have openly stated their intent on committing genocide in Ukraine, engaged in systematic torture, rape, looting, and the murder of Ukrainian civilians, and the torture and murder of Ukrainian POWs.

Power Stations are civilian target. The military operate without them in all areas. The Russian military and government are operating a blitz against civilians in the hope that they will turn against their government. Seeing that the Ukrainian are winning ground back on the field this is quite unlikely.

They are dual use, the reason why NATO attacked the Serbian power grid during the Kosovo war, and the reason Ukraine has attacked the Belgorod power grid in this war. I don’t think it’s particularly helpful to equate attacks on power stations with the bombing of hospitals and schools which are clearly not legitimate military targets.

[petej]

South Afeicans and Russians up a tree K.I.S.S.I.N.G

Yeah, no. It's a little more nuanced than that.

My support for Ukraine and condemnation of Russia's actions is unconditional.

My comment was more related to soldiers, specifically those programming missiles or piloting drones, being vilified for hitting (or attempting to hit) civilian targets. Regardless of if they are Russian or American, they get orders to hit target coordinates thousands of miles away without necessarily seeing it or knowing what it is. If they are lucky they might get some intelligence relating to the target, but by the point it gets to them those orders have gone through so many gatekeepers and are likely so redacted and altered and possibly even flat out fabricated, that it might look very convincing for a brainwashed grunt. Whether it's Russian Military Intelligence falsely claiming the school or hospital is being used by the military and there are no civilians present or the CIA leaving out that the Al-Qaeda mastermind in the compound is attending a wedding and there are many children present, the soldier pulling the trigger or programming the missile might not have that context.

I'll be the first to admit that this is being VERY generous towards the Russians here, but the reality is that it is a lot more likely for boots-on-the-ground troops to realise their orders are complete bullshit and war crimes when they reach their target and find a bunch of civilians, that it is for these guys or US drone pilots just looking looking at a map or a drone control monitor and take the intelligence they were given at face value. One could argue it's even more difficult for them when they have a superior officer or spook hovering over their shoulder while executing the order.

That being said, I'm glad they are getting exposed and subjected to this massive doxxing. This type of psyops against those Russian soldiers is an interesting new development in modern warfare. I just think there should be some nuance in the culpability of who is picking the targets and who is firing at them, and that goes for the USAF as well.

We tend to give the US the benefit of the doubt that their targeting of civilians is always accidental collateral damage or due to bad intelligence, and maybe that is a bit naive. Sometimes they might just be a little too trigger happy, despite all the judicial safeguards they put in place prior to targeting.

It suits Russia's whataboutery for westerners to see things in black and white rather than shades of grey.

I think the fact that parts of US society and organisations are critical and allowed to be critical when civilians have been killed by US weapons is hugely important and to realise that in a society like Russia's this isn't allowed. It is the level of terrible that is different. Russia has been using banned weapons in Ukraine, intentionally committing genocide, threatening nuclear war and used chemical warfare in Syria.

[laurent]

I would think that power stations are legitimate military targets, and in defence of the Russians, I think generally when they’ve hit hospitals, apartment blocks and children’s playgrounds - it’s mostly due to faulty targeting or inaccurate missiles. Not that they seem to care about that, and the Russian state is fascistic in nature and have openly stated their intent on committing genocide in Ukraine, engaged in systematic torture, rape, looting, and the murder of Ukrainian civilians, and the torture and murder of Ukrainian POWs.

Power Stations are civilian target. The military operate without them in all areas. The Russian military and government are operating a blitz against civilians in the hope that they will turn against their government. Seeing that the Ukrainian are winning ground back on the field this is quite unlikely.

They are dual use, the reason why NATO attacked the Serbian power grid during the Kosovo war, and the reason Ukraine has attacked the Belgorod power grid in this war. I don’t think it’s particularly helpful to equate attacks on power stations with the bombing of hospitals and schools which are clearly not legitimate military targets.

Well the ones affected here are civilians freezing their arses off. The soldiers are freezing in trenches anyway; mostly the russians as they are running out of warm clothing and most likely did not prepare whatsoever if the last 7 month have shown anything.

the West response has already started on this (more air defense and Generators are on the way).