The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Simian]

Though I agree he’s getting unfair flak, these sorts of arguments seem to largely ignore the fundamental questions of whether moving him to ten was (a) necessary and (b) the best fit between his skill set and where we lacked skilled players. I’m also puzzled by the number of people who are so confident about him showing sustained improvement over time at ten. That’s not really what happened with the positions he played before the switch.

Would I have him in the squad? For sure. Do I think the amount of opportunities being afforded him to develop at the expense of developing others (and other combinations) is a massive gamble? Absolutely.

Yup, I agree. he kind of plateaued at 15 because his fantastic natural skills in the end couldn't make up for his deficiencies and I think it's the same with him at 10. He has amazing skills and can make those breaks others can't, but, in my opinion the downsides such as positional, play, defence and game management, whilst at a half decent level, are not top level and the rest doesn't make up for it.

I genuinely feel for the guy because he is now in the situation where his detractors are being unfair and picking up on any little slip whilst his supporters are going overboard on things that are really very basic stand off skills and he is stuck in the middle.

I'm not sure this is fair, his weakness at fifteen was defence and drifting in and out of games but his problem in the end was we no longer saw the natural talent. The game breaking kind of stopped for long periods and the weaknesses were too hard to ignore. Sure the Richard Cockerill factor comes into play there. If Hogg got injured tomorrow Smith would start Vs Fiji I doubt Kinghorn is considered a serious option there these days.

I don't think his game management is that bad. He makes mistakes but I think the game breaking playmaking makes up for them. I'd much rather have him at 10 than Ross Thompson for Scotland or vdw or Savala for Edinburgh.

Kinghorn's biggest problem is he isn't Finn Russell. Which was Hastings biggest problem until he got the not Blair Kinghorn boost. And that he's not an international quality goal kicker. But those aren't his fault. I think if you look at him purely for the player he is he's actually okay. I think potentially we all saw the 19/20 year old tear up for Edinburgh and thought we had an amazing player on our hands and that didn't materialise either and he's never shaken that disappointment from us.

I think the problem people have is that we've players at ten who are better than "actually ok" at ten, no?

We'll see how it pans out over the AIs, but if BK's first choice across the piece, it's just wild. don't get me wrong, if he comes out of it as the best ten and others have a shot, it's still suspect (assuming FR doesn't get called up, which, on form, he definitely should). If no one else gets a proper chance, it's just GT indulging himself and his 'smarts' and he needs to go.

[Big D]

Russell had another strong game. Threw an intercept apparently but had some really strong plays and v good off the tee.

[Punter15]

Right now? No, I don't think he's an international standard goal kicker.

Having said that, think back 14 months, The Blair Switch Project had only just begun, prior to that he'd started maybe three games at fly half as cover. 14 months ago Kinghorn wasn't a club level fly half at any of skills needed to play that position, his positioning was not great, his passing was inconsistent to say the least, his defending was a bit ropey, but his pace got him out of a few sticky situations. His concentration was poor. He could see a gap before anyone else on the park and he had the pace to burst through it, but that was about it. He was all potential and no backlog of performances as a 10, he had no credit whatsoever.

The distance he's come in each of those aspects is beyond even what I'd hoped to see in him, he's 25 now, what he going to be like at 27?

So no, I don't think he's an international quality goal kicker right now, but I think it would be foolish to bet against him becoming one by this time next year.

By the way, on his try, that was no fluke, he didn't get lucky with the bounce of the ball or whatever, that's the third try he's scored with those footballing skills since moving to fly half.
I remember Toonie saying that Kinghorn was the quickest player in the Scotland squad - that was prior to van der Merwe joining so I don't know if that still stands, but he left the wee scrum half and their winger in his wake, and he had to control the ball as opposed to just run flat out like the Aussies did.

Agree with all of this. Kinghorn is one of the most gifted rugby players around at the moment. He is still learning his trade at 10 yet is performing at the top level and doing very well. He will continue to get better and better and most other countries would be desperate to have someone with his skill set at 10. When he plays with Edinburgh he scares the sh1t out of defences and creates so many tries for us with his pace and eye for a gap. It will take him some more games to translate this at international level. I agree that his goal kicking isn't yet up there but it is a teachable skill and with Pattersons help and practice he will get better. I just get pissed off with the criticism of the player who has agreed to be switched to 10, as suggested by Blair and Townsend, for the good of his club and country and his working so hard to become better, he deserves as much encouragement as possible not endless criticism.

Though I agree he’s getting unfair flak, these sorts of arguments seem to largely ignore the fundamental questions of whether moving him to ten was (a) necessary and (b) the best fit between his skill set and where we lacked skilled players. I’m also puzzled by the number of people who are so confident about him showing sustained improvement over time at ten. That’s not really what happened with the positions he played before the switch.

Would I have him in the squad? For sure. Do I think the amount of opportunities being afforded him to develop at the expense of developing others (and other combinations) is a massive gamble? Absolutely.

I do agree, but having driven from Somerset to Edinburgh to watch him miss an absolute sitter my patience is somewhat strained.

[Tichtheid]

Though I agree he’s getting unfair flak, these sorts of arguments seem to largely ignore the fundamental questions of whether moving him to ten was (a) necessary and (b) the best fit between his skill set and where we lacked skilled players. I’m also puzzled by the number of people who are so confident about him showing sustained improvement over time at ten. That’s not really what happened with the positions he played before the switch.

All players develop differently, iirc when Kinghorn joined Edinburgh as a teenager he was playing in the back three for Scotland age groups to accommodate Hastings at 10.
At the time Edinburgh's back three were Fife, Cuthbert and Brown, whilst the starting 10s were Greig Tonks and Jason Tovey. With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight Kinghorn should have been playing 10 at that point, but that wasn't going to happen with the setup we had at that time.

Kinghorn and Mike Blair have both said that losing focus was a bit of a problem for him during games, but at 10 you just don't get that opportunity, same for 9.

Would I have him in the squad? For sure. Do I think the amount of opportunities being afforded him to develop at the expense of developing others (and other combinations) is a massive gamble? Absolutely.

What's the gamble? Worst case is he's playing at the level he is now and he covers fullback and wing at the RWC, with Finn and Hastings as one and two in those positions.
We know what Finn is capable of, we also know what Hastings can do, going by what I've seen at club level, along with BK, apart from those three I can't honestly think of anyone else at 10 who is a genuine contender at fly half for the Scottish world cup squad, not without a big drop off.

Kinghorn and Hastings will also be around for another world cup cycle, as will the likes of Thompson and Savala.

So, according to your post, we're playing a guy at ten for Scotland because he can't focus enough during games to play anywhere other than 9 or 10 and because we have good options at 10 but we know what they can do? and one of those guys isn't even in the squad. I mean, I get that you're pushing back against the hassle BK gets, but you must understand that that is simply a ridiculous argument?

Ok, that is so wide of the mark and really not what I said I'll take some responsibility for not making my point clearly or simply enough.

Some players drift in and out of games, there are many who do this in all positions, including even the back row, I've seen it in many players, I'm sure we all have.
Kinghorn was one of them when he played at 15. Half backs can't do that, it's just not possible because they are so involved in every phase for the entire game.

IMO, there are no other options to Finn, Hastings and Kinghorn that can play 10 at the level required at the world cup 12 months from now.

Is that any clearer?

What I didn't say is that I think Finn should still be first choice.

[Tichtheid]

I do agree, but having driven from Somerset to Edinburgh to watch him miss an absolute sitter my patience is somewhat strained.

Did you enjoy his try?

[I like neeps]

Yup, I agree. he kind of plateaued at 15 because his fantastic natural skills in the end couldn't make up for his deficiencies and I think it's the same with him at 10. He has amazing skills and can make those breaks others can't, but, in my opinion the downsides such as positional, play, defence and game management, whilst at a half decent level, are not top level and the rest doesn't make up for it.

I genuinely feel for the guy because he is now in the situation where his detractors are being unfair and picking up on any little slip whilst his supporters are going overboard on things that are really very basic stand off skills and he is stuck in the middle.

I'm not sure this is fair, his weakness at fifteen was defence and drifting in and out of games but his problem in the end was we no longer saw the natural talent. The game breaking kind of stopped for long periods and the weaknesses were too hard to ignore. Sure the Richard Cockerill factor comes into play there. If Hogg got injured tomorrow Smith would start Vs Fiji I doubt Kinghorn is considered a serious option there these days.

I don't think his game management is that bad. He makes mistakes but I think the game breaking playmaking makes up for them. I'd much rather have him at 10 than Ross Thompson for Scotland or vdw or Savala for Edinburgh.

Kinghorn's biggest problem is he isn't Finn Russell. Which was Hastings biggest problem until he got the not Blair Kinghorn boost. And that he's not an international quality goal kicker. But those aren't his fault. I think if you look at him purely for the player he is he's actually okay. I think potentially we all saw the 19/20 year old tear up for Edinburgh and thought we had an amazing player on our hands and that didn't materialise either and he's never shaken that disappointment from us.

I think the problem people have is that we've players at ten who are better than "actually ok" at ten, no?

We'll see how it pans out over the AIs, but if BK's first choice across the piece, it's just wild. don't get me wrong, if he comes out of it as the best ten and others have a shot, it's still suspect (assuming FR doesn't get called up, which, on form, he definitely should). If no one else gets a proper chance, it's just GT indulging himself and his 'smarts' and he needs to go.

We have Russell who doesn't follow the rules of the squad and so won't be picked until Townsend has gone or willing to lose a lot more authority with the players and Hastings who is fine when I watch Gloucester and did his job for us when Russell walked out but is far from the great player being made out because Kinghorn is favoured to him. We had no other 10 who is ok to select in Argentina and we had no 10 who is ok to select Vs Australia. I would start Hastings Vs Fiji fwiw but I think what we gain in goal kicking and familiarity at 10 as lose in playmaking - Kinghorn is the better playmaker than Hastings even now in my opinion.

Is Townsend making the right decisions? No and I've wanted him out of the job since 2019. After being highly sceptical I like watching Blair Kinghorn play at 10. It's not his fault he's picked and it's not his fault he's been asked to kick goals which isn't something he does well. It's Gregor Townsend's.

[Big D]

I may be wrong, and the train strike definitely was an issue for folk and their mood at the weekend too but it was the first game I was at where there was a real feeling of people being a bit fed up with Townsend. Few mentions of not long til he's gone after the world cup, would back Finn over him etc.

[clydecloggie]

Perhaps the subdued atmosphere at Murrayfield means the pointlessness of it all is seeping through. Rugby works in world cup cycles and we all know we are not going to be anywhere near getting out of the group next year, so we're not really building up to the big occasion in the same way as before.

In 2019 there was genuine excitement pre-RWC about Hogg at the peak of his powers and Russell weaving magic in a team playing fast and expansive rugby. The excitement lasted roughly 50s into game 1 but it was there in the year before.

This time round, pretty much everyone knows we're fucked by having our two kryptonite teams in the group. So people might not be as interested in trying to develop an alternative at 10 as back in 2018, when it could be justified for the greater good of getting a result at the RWC. So we get a "Let's just enjoy the moment" attitude instead, which is immediately scuppered by Russell not even being in the squad. We're not beating NZ with Kinghorn at 10, we just might if Russell has one of his nights. But we'll not get to see it.

[C T]

It's just frustrating. We're playing New Zealand which we don't get to do very often, and they're having a bit of a wobble which definitely doesn't tend to coincide with playing us. I say wobble, it's still New Zealand of course.

I'm still annoyed that when South Africa were in the pits a few years back that they didn't visit Scotland.

And this is happening when our internal feuds are causing some form of damage.

In truth it might not matter very much anyway. I've always thought that we're the kindest team in world rugby. If a team is arriving at Murrayfield feeling a bit down, we'll always try and lift their spirits a bit in the first 20. Maybe give them an intercept or charge down try. Something along those lines anyway, just to help them out a wee bit.

[charltom]

Or are Gregor and team playing a very convincing hustle before the ABs come north...?

[I like neeps]

I think Wales will beat the All Blacks and they'll beat us to get the taste out of their mouth.

[Wylie Coyote]

I'm a bit worried that in order to keep Kinghorn at 10 and somehow get a goalkicker on the bench Townsend will do something mad like play Hastings at 15. What are the options since Kinghorn cannot be dropped? Does Cammy Redpath kick? Does Horne start over price - thus ensuring 2 British Lions are kept out of the team to ensure Kinghorn plays ten? It would just make so much more sense to have Kinghorn and Horne as bench options covering Russell and Price but that's water under the bridge.

[Big D]

Perhaps the subdued atmosphere at Murrayfield means the pointlessness of it all is seeping through. Rugby works in world cup cycles and we all know we are not going to be anywhere near getting out of the group next year, so we're not really building up to the big occasion in the same way as before.

In 2019 there was genuine excitement pre-RWC about Hogg at the peak of his powers and Russell weaving magic in a team playing fast and expansive rugby. The excitement lasted roughly 50s into game 1 but it was there in the year before.

This time round, pretty much everyone knows we're fucked by having our two kryptonite teams in the group. So people might not be as interested in trying to develop an alternative at 10 as back in 2018, when it could be justified for the greater good of getting a result at the RWC. So we get a "Let's just enjoy the moment" attitude instead, which is immediately scuppered by Russell not even being in the squad. We're not beating NZ with Kinghorn at 10, we just might if Russell has one of his nights. But we'll not get to see it.

I think there is certainly an element of that regarding those sides. Plus if we are being honest Townsend has rarely found a gameplan that looked to overcome the power teams.

Plus it is bloody expensive to go to games now.

[Big D]

Three tweets in the thread, showing three nice passes from Finn.



Nice to see Scots playing well and perhaps with the shackles off.

[Soapy]

Three tweets in the thread, showing three nice passes from Finn.



Nice to see Scots playing well and perhaps with the shackles off.

Flatman and Ojo really talking up Hutchinson and Finn Smith on last night on the Gallagher highlights show ...

[Yr Alban]

Someone nailed it above by saying we have our two kryptonite teams in the RWC. We haven’t had any answer to the type of game they play at any point in the Toony era. One year out, our sole focus should be ‘how can we set up to give ourselves a chance in these games?’ but it isn’t. We’re treading water whilst our coach engages in petty power struggles with the player whose introduction off the bench almost turned around a Test series against one of those kryptonite teams. So we all know that the RWC is a foregone conclusion, which is heartbreaking but inevitable. So rather than getting excited for the RWC, we’re gritting our teeth and counting the months until we get a changing of the guard. We hope. It wouldn’t entirely astonish me if the SRU extended Toony’s contract even if we collapse against Ire and SA.

[robmatic]

Yup, I agree. he kind of plateaued at 15 because his fantastic natural skills in the end couldn't make up for his deficiencies and I think it's the same with him at 10. He has amazing skills and can make those breaks others can't, but, in my opinion the downsides such as positional, play, defence and game management, whilst at a half decent level, are not top level and the rest doesn't make up for it.

I genuinely feel for the guy because he is now in the situation where his detractors are being unfair and picking up on any little slip whilst his supporters are going overboard on things that are really very basic stand off skills and he is stuck in the middle.

I'm not sure this is fair, his weakness at fifteen was defence and drifting in and out of games but his problem in the end was we no longer saw the natural talent. The game breaking kind of stopped for long periods and the weaknesses were too hard to ignore. Sure the Richard Cockerill factor comes into play there. If Hogg got injured tomorrow Smith would start Vs Fiji I doubt Kinghorn is considered a serious option there these days.

I don't think his game management is that bad. He makes mistakes but I think the game breaking playmaking makes up for them. I'd much rather have him at 10 than Ross Thompson for Scotland or vdw or Savala for Edinburgh.

Kinghorn's biggest problem is he isn't Finn Russell. Which was Hastings biggest problem until he got the not Blair Kinghorn boost. And that he's not an international quality goal kicker. But those aren't his fault. I think if you look at him purely for the player he is he's actually okay. I think potentially we all saw the 19/20 year old tear up for Edinburgh and thought we had an amazing player on our hands and that didn't materialise either and he's never shaken that disappointment from us.

I think the problem people have is that we've players at ten who are better than "actually ok" at ten, no?

We'll see how it pans out over the AIs, but if BK's first choice across the piece, it's just wild. don't get me wrong, if he comes out of it as the best ten and others have a shot, it's still suspect (assuming FR doesn't get called up, which, on form, he definitely should). If no one else gets a proper chance, it's just GT indulging himself and his 'smarts' and he needs to go.

There aren't exactly hordes of international class Scottish 10s waiting in the wings though when Finn has been ruled out for other reasons. Kinghorn, even with his flaws, was comfortably the best available last weekend, because none of the other 10s based in Scotland should be anywhere near international rugby based on recent form. Ross Thompson only having 20 minutes of gametime this season is bad enough, but he wasn't playing very well last season either.

I get the feeling that Toonie is going to be stubborn and persist with Kinghorn instead of Hastings for the rest of the autumn tests based on his chat, but I haven't watched enough of Hastings recently enough to know whether he is in good, bad or indifferent form. From the state of recent Scottish fan commentary, he seems he is one of those players who gets better the more we don't see them play.

[Simian]

All players develop differently, iirc when Kinghorn joined Edinburgh as a teenager he was playing in the back three for Scotland age groups to accommodate Hastings at 10.
At the time Edinburgh's back three were Fife, Cuthbert and Brown, whilst the starting 10s were Greig Tonks and Jason Tovey. With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight Kinghorn should have been playing 10 at that point, but that wasn't going to happen with the setup we had at that time.

Kinghorn and Mike Blair have both said that losing focus was a bit of a problem for him during games, but at 10 you just don't get that opportunity, same for 9.



What's the gamble? Worst case is he's playing at the level he is now and he covers fullback and wing at the RWC, with Finn and Hastings as one and two in those positions.
We know what Finn is capable of, we also know what Hastings can do, going by what I've seen at club level, along with BK, apart from those three I can't honestly think of anyone else at 10 who is a genuine contender at fly half for the Scottish world cup squad, not without a big drop off.

Kinghorn and Hastings will also be around for another world cup cycle, as will the likes of Thompson and Savala.

So, according to your post, we're playing a guy at ten for Scotland because he can't focus enough during games to play anywhere other than 9 or 10 and because we have good options at 10 but we know what they can do? and one of those guys isn't even in the squad. I mean, I get that you're pushing back against the hassle BK gets, but you must understand that that is simply a ridiculous argument?

Ok, that is so wide of the mark and really not what I said I'll take some responsibility for not making my point clearly or simply enough.

Some players drift in and out of games, there are many who do this in all positions, including even the back row, I've seen it in many players, I'm sure we all have.
Kinghorn was one of them when he played at 15. Half backs can't do that, it's just not possible because they are so involved in every phase for the entire game.

IMO, there are no other options to Finn, Hastings and Kinghorn that can play 10 at the level required at the world cup 12 months from now.

Is that any clearer?

What I didn't say is that I think Finn should still be first choice.

I’m still not getting the relevance of your focus point, I’m afraid. Why’s it relevant?

I agree we only have three realistic options (the three you mention). It would be good to see how the two who aren’t BK go (I don’t buy your argument that we don’t need to because we already know). Will be interesting to see who gets starts in the remaining AI games.

[Simian]

I'm not sure this is fair, his weakness at fifteen was defence and drifting in and out of games but his problem in the end was we no longer saw the natural talent. The game breaking kind of stopped for long periods and the weaknesses were too hard to ignore. Sure the Richard Cockerill factor comes into play there. If Hogg got injured tomorrow Smith would start Vs Fiji I doubt Kinghorn is considered a serious option there these days.

I don't think his game management is that bad. He makes mistakes but I think the game breaking playmaking makes up for them. I'd much rather have him at 10 than Ross Thompson for Scotland or vdw or Savala for Edinburgh.

Kinghorn's biggest problem is he isn't Finn Russell. Which was Hastings biggest problem until he got the not Blair Kinghorn boost. And that he's not an international quality goal kicker. But those aren't his fault. I think if you look at him purely for the player he is he's actually okay. I think potentially we all saw the 19/20 year old tear up for Edinburgh and thought we had an amazing player on our hands and that didn't materialise either and he's never shaken that disappointment from us.

I think the problem people have is that we've players at ten who are better than "actually ok" at ten, no?

We'll see how it pans out over the AIs, but if BK's first choice across the piece, it's just wild. don't get me wrong, if he comes out of it as the best ten and others have a shot, it's still suspect (assuming FR doesn't get called up, which, on form, he definitely should). If no one else gets a proper chance, it's just GT indulging himself and his 'smarts' and he needs to go.

There aren't exactly hordes of international class Scottish 10s waiting in the wings though when Finn has been ruled out for other reasons. Kinghorn, even with his flaws, was comfortably the best available last weekend, because none of the other 10s based in Scotland should be anywhere near international rugby based on recent form. Ross Thompson only having 20 minutes of gametime this season is bad enough, but he wasn't playing very well last season either.

I get the feeling that Toonie is going to be stubborn and persist with Kinghorn instead of Hastings for the rest of the autumn tests based on his chat, but I haven't watched enough of Hastings recently enough to know whether he is in good, bad or indifferent form. From the state of recent Scottish fan commentary, he seems he is one of those players who gets better the more we don't see them play.

Hasting’s been playing pretty well, imo. Falling off a fair few tackles, but that’s the case right across their back line…

I’m not suggesting BK shouldn’t have started last week and I thought he had a pretty good game. I’ll be curious to see what happens with the starting ten over the AIs tho.

[Tichtheid]

I’m still not getting the relevance of your focus point, I’m afraid. Why’s it relevant?

It's relevant to Kinghorn, for whom focus was a weakness. It actually helps him being so involved in the match after switching positions, one of the weaknesses is removed from his game




On Saturday's selection, I am of the option that the ABs is the main event in the remaining games, so for me I'd go with the same team for both the Fiji and NZ matches in order to build a bit of cohesion, injuries permitting.

[Punter15]

I do agree, but having driven from Somerset to Edinburgh to watch him miss an absolute sitter my patience is somewhat strained.

Did you enjoy his try?

Don’t be so facetious. A fundamental part of his role and he muffed it. I rate him very highly but his kicking was unforgivable. Having said that I still haven’t forgiven Logan for missing three easy kicks in 99 to screw a possible Grand Slam so he’s up against it.

[Yr Alban]

Well, despite my general aggravation with the SRU, I’m going to be in Edinburgh this coming weekend and I’ve bought tickets for Fiji for my son and I. Hopefully it’ll be a decent game anyway.

[robmatic]

I do agree, but having driven from Somerset to Edinburgh to watch him miss an absolute sitter my patience is somewhat strained.

Did you enjoy his try?

Don’t be so facetious. A fundamental part of his role and he muffed it. I rate him very highly but his kicking was unforgivable. Having said that I still haven’t forgiven Logan for missing three easy kicks in 99 to screw a possible Grand Slam so he’s up against it.

I'm more inclined to blame Toonie to be honest. Kinghorn is the third best place kicker in the Edinburgh squad and doesn't do it regularly in league games, so arguably it shouldn't be a fundamental part of his role at international level.

[Big D]

Thistle seem to be suggesting Redpath is in.

I like him, and he's better than ST but from what I've seen Hutchinson is in better form than him and not much worse in defence.

[KingBlairhorn]

In other news, I am excited to see what Viaplay bring to the URC given how broadly and proudly they have been advertising they have La Liga, Ice Hockey and Rugby League rights

[Tichtheid]

Honestly, I get that winning is very important and that losing is disappointing, but why all the opprobrium gets heaped on a young man who probably feels worse about a missed kick than anyone else is beyond me.

Sport is supposed to be a joyous thing, something that takes your mind off the day-to-day crap. BK missed a kick at the end, but he scored a wonderful solo try which I don't think anyone else in the Scotland squad, or outwith the Scotland squad, could score. As I said, he's scored that same way three times in the last year.

Kinghorn also made a great pass which if caught would have given us another 5 points at least. The next one to Ritchie was too high but when I watched the game back yesterday, I think if it wasn't that high it wouldn't have made it over the defender, but Ritchie perhaps could have kept his width.
Gilcho's fumble wouldn't have counted anyway as it would have been pulled back for the Young clearout on the scrum half.

However, you can't really take anything from any of that because if any of those had been scored the game restarts from the centre line and everything thereafter is different.

My point really is that I don't understand the negativity, no one died, it's meant to be fun.

[Tichtheid]

Thistle seem to be suggesting Redpath is in.

I like him, and he's better than ST but from what I've seen Hutchinson is in better form than him and not much worse in defence.

I think Redpath is Toonie's first name on the team sheet, he was terrific on his debut right enough.

I reckon Redpath and Harris will start and they will be the only backline changes from last Saturday. Bennett will drop to the bench.

[weegie01]

My point really is that I don't understand the negativity, no one died, it's meant to be fun.

Fun? You've not been watching Scotland much then? Masochism is closer to the mark.

[robmatic]

In other news, I am excited to see what Viaplay bring to the URC given how broadly and proudly they have been advertising they have La Liga, Ice Hockey and Rugby League rights

And Top 14. I guess they will walk back from broadcasting all the URC games.

[Tichtheid]

My point really is that I don't understand the negativity, no one died, it's meant to be fun.

Fun? You've not been watching Scotland much then? Masochism is closer to the mark.

My first time at Murrayfield was (Wiki tells me) 9th of December 1978, Graham Mourie's All Blacks. I was thirteen and these players, on both sides, were like gods to me.

The results over the years have kept in line with that day, to be honest, with the odd, sweet day in the sun. I've seen two Grand Slams being won, I'm desperate for more, but I'd hate to lose the joy of watching the sport I love. I get disappointed when we lose, even angry sometimes, but it subsides soon after.
When that starts to take over from the fun, that's when I'll walk away from it.

[Slick]

Honestly, I get that winning is very important and that losing is disappointing, but why all the opprobrium gets heaped on a young man who probably feels worse about a missed kick than anyone else is beyond me.

Sport is supposed to be a joyous thing, something that takes your mind off the day-to-day crap. BK missed a kick at the end, but he scored a wonderful solo try which I don't think anyone else in the Scotland squad, or outwith the Scotland squad, could score. As I said, he's scored that same way three times in the last year.

Kinghorn also made a great pass which if caught would have given us another 5 points at least. The next one to Ritchie was too high but when I watched the game back yesterday, I think if it wasn't that high it wouldn't have made it over the defender, but Ritchie perhaps could have kept his width.
Gilcho's fumble wouldn't have counted anyway as it would have been pulled back for the Young clearout on the scrum half.

However, you can't really take anything from any of that because if any of those had been scored the game restarts from the centre line and everything thereafter is different.

My point really is that I don't understand the negativity, no one died, it's meant to be fun.

What an awful post.

Of course it's meant to be fun, but part of that fun is the emotion and the sense of belonging to a team and wanting the best for that team, it's a pretty fundamental part of sport. I agree that it shouldn't go beyond that, and no individual should have shit thrown at them, but to no be allowed to voice opinions takes away the entire point.

[Tichtheid]

Honestly, I get that winning is very important and that losing is disappointing, but why all the opprobrium gets heaped on a young man who probably feels worse about a missed kick than anyone else is beyond me.

Sport is supposed to be a joyous thing, something that takes your mind off the day-to-day crap. BK missed a kick at the end, but he scored a wonderful solo try which I don't think anyone else in the Scotland squad, or outwith the Scotland squad, could score. As I said, he's scored that same way three times in the last year.

Kinghorn also made a great pass which if caught would have given us another 5 points at least. The next one to Ritchie was too high but when I watched the game back yesterday, I think if it wasn't that high it wouldn't have made it over the defender, but Ritchie perhaps could have kept his width.
Gilcho's fumble wouldn't have counted anyway as it would have been pulled back for the Young clearout on the scrum half.

However, you can't really take anything from any of that because if any of those had been scored the game restarts from the centre line and everything thereafter is different.

My point really is that I don't understand the negativity, no one died, it's meant to be fun.

What an awful post.

Of course it's meant to be fun, but part of that fun is the emotion and the sense of belonging to a team and wanting the best for that team, it's a pretty fundamental part of sport. I agree that it shouldn't go beyond that, and no individual should have shit thrown at them, but to no be allowed to voice opinions takes away the entire point.

Who said anything about not being allowed to voice an opinion?

I didn't write anything that disallows discussion on selection, or tactics or abilities of players.

When the topic is selection, I prefer to talk up one player, rather than talk down another.

[clydecloggie]

Honestly, I get that winning is very important and that losing is disappointing, but why all the opprobrium gets heaped on a young man who probably feels worse about a missed kick than anyone else is beyond me.

Sport is supposed to be a joyous thing, something that takes your mind off the day-to-day crap. BK missed a kick at the end, but he scored a wonderful solo try which I don't think anyone else in the Scotland squad, or outwith the Scotland squad, could score. As I said, he's scored that same way three times in the last year.

Kinghorn also made a great pass which if caught would have given us another 5 points at least. The next one to Ritchie was too high but when I watched the game back yesterday, I think if it wasn't that high it wouldn't have made it over the defender, but Ritchie perhaps could have kept his width.
Gilcho's fumble wouldn't have counted anyway as it would have been pulled back for the Young clearout on the scrum half.

However, you can't really take anything from any of that because if any of those had been scored the game restarts from the centre line and everything thereafter is different.

My point really is that I don't understand the negativity, no one died, it's meant to be fun.

What an awful post.

Of course it's meant to be fun, but part of that fun is the emotion and the sense of belonging to a team and wanting the best for that team, it's a pretty fundamental part of sport. I agree that it shouldn't go beyond that, and no individual should have shit thrown at them, but to no be allowed to voice opinions takes away the entire point.

Who said anything about not being allowed to voice an opinion?

I didn't write anything that disallows discussion on selection, or tactics or abilities of players.

When the topic is selection, I prefer to talk up one player, rather than talk down another.

I completely agree with your take on the pass that flew over Ritchie. He was far too narrow, or alternatively: the wing forward is supposed to be the second last man in from the touch line so where the hell was the winger or centre who should have been there? Cost us a certain try, but no blame at all on Kinghorn for that.

[Tichtheid]

I completely agree with your take on the pass that flew over Ritchie. He was far too narrow, or alternatively: the wing forward is supposed to be the second last man in from the touch line so where the hell was the winger or centre who should have been there? Cost us a certain try, but no blame at all on Kinghorn for that.

I had my head in my hands for the Tuipulotu one, it was at worst a two on two five metres from the line and you'd back him to score if he'd caught it.

That alone wasn't the reason for the defeat, none of the incidents on their own is the reason we lost, added up with the poor maul, the discipline, or lack of, compounding penalties, shonky lineouts etc, they all add up to why we lost.

That's one of the reasons I get pissed off at the last kick being called out as the reason we lost; we played well enough to have been out of sight by the time that kick came around.

[I like neeps]

In other news, I am excited to see what Viaplay bring to the URC given how broadly and proudly they have been advertising they have La Liga, Ice Hockey and Rugby League rights

Don't really understand why people dislike Viaplay/Premier Sports. They show every URC match, you can understand the pundits as it's not Gaelic and you don't need to fork out big money for sky showing a Scottish team per month. I like it.

[Slick]

What an awful post.

Of course it's meant to be fun, but part of that fun is the emotion and the sense of belonging to a team and wanting the best for that team, it's a pretty fundamental part of sport. I agree that it shouldn't go beyond that, and no individual should have shit thrown at them, but to no be allowed to voice opinions takes away the entire point.

Who said anything about not being allowed to voice an opinion?

I didn't write anything that disallows discussion on selection, or tactics or abilities of players.

When the topic is selection, I prefer to talk up one player, rather than talk down another.

I completely agree with your take on the pass that flew over Ritchie. He was far too narrow, or alternatively: the wing forward is supposed to be the second last man in from the touch line so where the hell was the winger or centre who should have been there? Cost us a certain try, but no blame at all on Kinghorn for that.

Well, there's a certain amount of blame for throwing the pass that missed the player and went straight into touch

[Tichtheid]

Here is a still from the live action, as you can see from the flight of the ball, highlighted in green, it bounces approximately halfway between the touchline and the five-metre line, proving conclusively that Ritchie was too tight. Mark Bennett is just out of shot behind Nel. The pass was made in order to clear the two advancing Wallaby defenders.

[KingBlairhorn]

In other news, I am excited to see what Viaplay bring to the URC given how broadly and proudly they have been advertising they have La Liga, Ice Hockey and Rugby League rights

And Top 14. I guess they will walk back from broadcasting all the URC games.

Just to be clear - they have no Rugby League rights (as far as I know). They are referring to the Top14 and URC as Rugby League

[Slick]

Here is a still from the live action, as you can see from the flight of the ball, highlighted in green, it bounces approximately halfway between the touchline and the five-metre line, proving conclusively that Ritchie was too tight. Mark Bennett is just out of shot behind Nel. The pass was made in order to clear the two advancing Wallaby defenders.

That's very good (and scarily accurate actually)

There is no doubt Ritchie could/should have been wider. But he wasn't, so don't throw the pass, I think that's fairly basic really. In the wider context we had been building a few phases and had stretched the defence but the pass went miles from Ritchie and gave them a lineout to relieve all that pressure. It's a really weird one to hang your hat on, it was a bad decision to try and make that pass.

[KingBlairhorn]

In other news, I am excited to see what Viaplay bring to the URC given how broadly and proudly they have been advertising they have La Liga, Ice Hockey and Rugby League rights

Don't really understand why people dislike Viaplay/Premier Sports. They show every URC match, you can understand the pundits as it's not Gaelic and you don't need to fork out big money for sky showing a Scottish team per month. I like it.

I don't dislike them at all (in fact I think my current Premier subscription is the best value subscription I have), but they aren't off to a good start if they don't know what sport they are providing access to.

I am concerned though that the £80 per year I paid for my Premier Sports subscription (i.e. £6.70 / month) is going to rise to the standard £14.99 that Viaplay charge. I have no interest in access to their Scandi Noir or movie offerings that the extra £8.30 / month will buy me. They are on record as not intending to offer a sports only package. Like most families we already have Netflix, we also have Amazon Prime (although that's on the renew watchlist), we currently have a now TV sub and my wife just signed up to Disney+ for the nipper. It's all getting a bit out of hand to be honest and I think we will scale back. £14.99 for URC, especially when loads of the games are now on a Saturday afternoon when I'm generally out with my daughter anyway, will be top of the list for the chop.