South African teams vote to join an expanded Pro 14

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Carter's Choice
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Sounds like this is now a done deal, with the unions voting to join an expanded Pro 14 at their recently held SARU General Council. It's interesting, because just weeks ago the SARU was threatening to sue both NZR and RA if they moved to break up Super Rugby unilaterally.

Good riddance to the South African teams I say. They have some great players and fans, but the timezones were terrible and as a partner, the SARU is a terrible organisation to work with. A warning to my Celtic boets, be prepared for them to demand 'expansion' teams every other year, and never agree to them using their own referees for South African games, unless you want your teams to routinely suffer 20-1 penalty counts.


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/a ... d=12360558
Rugby: South Africa's Super Rugby sides on verge of joining expanded Pro14
29 Aug, 2020 9:30am 4 minutes to read

South Africa's four Super Rugby sides: the Bulls, Stormers, Lions and Sharks, are poised to join an extended Pro14 competition in early 2021, according to The Daily Telegraph.

The proposal was discussed extensively at Friday's South African Rugby Union's General Council meeting of its constituent members, with chief executive Jurie Roux said to be an enthusiastic proponent. Informal discussions on the subject between Roux and his Pro14 counterpart, Martin Anayi, have been ongoing for some time.

The news, which is dependent on the easing of restrictions ­imposed by the Covid pandemic, offers a timely lift to the Pro14, following last week's news that the financially-troubled Southern Kings franchise may be unable to continue playing in the competition.

The prospect of four of club rugby's biggest beasts joining Pro14 – a competition that, commercially and in terms of profile, has long been in the shadow of the Premiership and Top 14 could prove transformational.

The Pro14, which currently features four Irish provinces, two Scottish teams, four Welsh sides and two Italian sides, plus South Africa's Cheetahs and Southern Kings from 2017-18, has made no secret of its desire to expand, and has toyed with moving into North America.

The arrival of the top South African sides in Europe has long been mooted, with revenue and player welfare concerns about the long-term effects of regularly crossing 11 time zones – as their four sides currently do – key concerns.

However, with the South African teams no longer able to travel to New Zealand or Australia, and no immediate prospect of that changing, there is huge impetus for change.

"The four Super Rugby sides are effectively looking for a tournament to play in," said one insider with knowledge of the negotiations. "In terms of time zones, availability and the quality of competition, the Pro14 is the only realistic option."

The SARU has already signed a contract with broadcasters for its four teams to play in Super Rugby, but believes those broadcasters would jump at a switch to a Pro14 coverage, which would allow games to be broadcast live (unlike most away Super Rugby games). Otherwise, South Africa's cash-strapped game would lose a huge chunk of revenue.

The experiment of South African sides travelling to and from Europe in the Pro14 has already worked well. Although the performance of the Southern Kings in particular was disappointing, with just four wins in 55 games, the South Africans have not suffered from jet lag on trips which typically see them play three sides.

Travel has also turned out to be far cheaper between South Africa and Britain than it is when visiting Australasia and Argentina.

The plan is not without its problems, not least the unpredictability of a world with Covid. However, a loose plan has emerged. The South Africans would reshape their season so that domestic competitions such as the Currie Cup would be condensed into the window before the end of the year, with the four current Super Rugby teams' results against each other counting towards their Pro14 standing.

The European teams would carry on playing each other and getting derbies out of their way, with a view to playing the South Africans in 2021. It has not yet been decided whether to continue playing in two conferences or one league.

It could be the game-changer the Pro14 needs, and would be well received by CVC, the venture capitalists who bought 28 per cent of the competition for £120 million ($NZ238m) in June.

Not only would it put more bums on seats and raise the profile of the competition, but it could transform television revenues, which stand at £20 million a year for the Pro14 compared to the Premiership's £34 million and the Top 14's £87 million.

From here, events could move quickly. The South Africans have another general council meeting next month, but rumblings from Dublin suggest that there could be an announcement from the Pro14 even sooner.

- Daily Telegraph UK
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Chilli
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SARU was planning to sue RA and NZR? Can you post a link to that please?
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blackblackblack
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Ok bye.
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Chilli wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:36 am SARU was planning to sue RA and NZR? Can you post a link to that please?
Find your own links. The SARU were threatening NZR and RA a couple of weeks ago.
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Jb1981
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I’ll believe it when it’s official. This type of thing out of South Africa has become far too much like the boy who cried wolf over the last decade.

If they are going, good luck to them and hopefully discussions on a trans-Tasman tournament Can become a bit more constructive.
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Will see how it works out but I'm personally pretty pleased about it. Stormers vs Edinburgh or Glasgow vs Lions, pretty excited. Means that a pro 14 match is only a 13 hour flight away :grin:
And on the 7th day, the Lord said "Let there be Finn Russell".
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blackblackblack wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:51 amOk bye.
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Chilli wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:36 am SARU was planning to sue RA and NZR? Can you post a link to that please?
I know I told you to find your own links, but I'm feeling generous today.

Here is an article from July 22nd quoting SARU Chief Jurie Roux threatening legal action against NZR if they went with a SR comp in 2021 that didn't include the South Africans. And now we're told they've just voted to join the Pro 14. Hypocrites much?


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/a ... d=12349971
Rugby: South Africa Rugby issue warning to New Zealand Rugby over new Super Rugby competition snub
22 Jul, 2020 3:00pm

South Africa Rugby chief executive Jurie Roux has joined his Australian counterparts in warning New Zealand Rugby over any plans to form a new Super Rugby competition without them.

New Zealand and Australia are currently wrangling over the makeup of a new competition, but traditional foes South Africa – who were already eyeing up the European competitions - appear to have been sidelined from talks.

New Zealand may also push for limited Australian involvement in a possible eight-team competition, although there is a big move for a Pasifika team to be formed. The Aussies are threatening to go it alone if New Zealand takes its snub too far.

Roux said overnight that New Zealand Rugby could face legal action if they broke the current agreement.

"If anybody kicked anyone out of Super Rugby, it was New Zealand kicking themselves out," Roux said.

"New Zealand has every right to determine their future but in terms of Sanzaar and the joint venture agreement, there is a very legal agreement in place and you've got to act within that legal agreement.

"The unbundling of Super Rugby can only be a Sanzaar executive decision. Somebody else might make a unilateral decision that forces (a split) but they put themselves at risk of a legal liability by the people who are still part of the joint venture."

Highlanders hooker and Māori All Blacks captain Ash Dixon expressed his disappointment over New Zealand's potential split with South Africa.

Dixon told Gold AM's Country Sport Breakfast: "I'd love to see the Africans still there. I think it's a huge part of the rivalry between New Zealand and South Africa.

"Especially as a young fella who has toured there…it's a great way to get a lot of gratitude…the way they live their lives and the way we do is completely different.

"Obviously it is not an easy place to win – I'd love to see the Africans still there."

After a slow start, South Africa's been ravaged by Covid-19 since May, with no sport being played and leading players only now allowed back to train in groups of five.

Roux said the world champions won't play at home this season.

"We are not planning on hosting any international games in South Africa this year. That's the system we're currently working with. Our best chance of play is either within New Zealand and if that doesn't materialise within the Rugby Championship, a second option is us going north and possibly playing test matches."

New Zealand Rugby chief executive Mark Robinson last week confirmed NZR is working with the Government to host the Rugby Championship through November and December, but playing Bledisloe Cup fixtures in Australia remains up for discussion.

Sanzaar announced that the four-team Rugby Championship would be held in New Zealand later this year, provided the Government approve travel exemptions and quarantine measures, and the Covid-19 situation here does not deteriorate.

Robinson suggested New Zealand hosting a six-week Rugby Championship from early November to mid-December was feasible and that all four nations were on board.

"It's very positive news for rugby in New Zealand. It's a significant opportunity for the game here and the entire country which we're excited about and eager to begin work with the Government to see what we can make happen," Robinson said.

"Our thoughts go out to our joint venture countries in South Africa, Argentina and Australia about the challenges they're working through and if we are to get this tournament off the ground in New Zealand the great lengths they'll have to go to with their players and families and administrators to make this happen."
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they don't deserve the spots honestly, just pull out the kings and cheetahs and replace them with Stormers and Lions, create another competition with those 2 teams and the other 2 super rugby team and add more and the winner of that competition will replace the lower rated south african team in the pro14 that year...new spots should go to an Argentinian team (same timezone)
Last edited by stemoc on Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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stemoc wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:05 am they don't deserve the spots honestly, just pull out the kings and cheetahs and replace them with Stormers and Lions, create another competition with those 2 teams and the other 2 super rugby team and add more and the winner of that competition will replace the lower rated south african team in the pro14 that year...new spots should got an Argentinian team (same timezone)
Sounds will a simple, easy to understand solution. You've always been able to cut through complex challenges with simple, effective solutions comets :thumbup:
stemoc
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Carter's Choice wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:10 am
stemoc wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:05 am they don't deserve the spots honestly, just pull out the kings and cheetahs and replace them with Stormers and Lions, create another competition with those 2 teams and the other 2 super rugby team and add more and the winner of that competition will replace the lower rated south african team in the pro14 that year...new spots should got an Argentinian team (same timezone)
Sounds will a simple, easy to understand solution. You've always been able to cut through complex challenges with simple, effective solutions comets :thumbup:
i know you are being sarcastic but i'll take it, the irony is that sometimes the answer is so simple... i remember back on the bored a lot of us were like, "maybe NZ should start its own super rugby, it will be a much better and stronger competition" but NZRU were like "nah, no money, too expensive without the other 2 countries involved... then #2020 happened ..sometimes the solution is so simple but greed always gets the better of them.. i'd rather have a Georgian team in the new Pro14 than ANOTHER pathetic saffer one..kings and cheetahs are the sunwolves of pro14.
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So South African posters, how do you feel about the SARU CEO threatening to sue NZR if they leave Super Rugby, whilst at the same time your SR teams are voting to leave Super Rugby? Makes you guys look like rank hypocrites. And you wonder why Kiwis and Aussies hate you?
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S15 is a dead horse many years ago. We should have move north many years ago.

Thanks Covid-19, our CC will be tops again, All Blacks, Wallabies and Pumas tours home and away will be awesome.
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Carter's Choice wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:08 am So South African posters, how do you feel about the SARU CEO threatening to sue NZR if they leave Super Rugby, whilst at the same time your SR teams are voting to leave Super Rugby? Makes you guys look like rank hypocrites. And you wonder why Kiwis and Aussies hate you?
The Kiwis hate the Aussies more then you can imagen
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OomStruisbaai wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:31 am
Carter's Choice wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:08 am So South African posters, how do you feel about the SARU CEO threatening to sue NZR if they leave Super Rugby, whilst at the same time your SR teams are voting to leave Super Rugby? Makes you guys look like rank hypocrites. And you wonder why Kiwis and Aussies hate you?
The Kiwis hate the Aussies more then you can imagen
No they don't. Dumb post.
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OomStruisbaai wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:30 am S15 is a dead horse many years ago. We should have move north many years ago.

Thanks Covid-19, our CC will be tops again, All Blacks, Wallabies and Pumas tours home and away will be awesome.
This won’t necessarily have any impact on the international scene. When a split was discussed previously it was noted that the Rugby Championship could continue as is.
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Carter's Choice wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:34 am
OomStruisbaai wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:31 am
Carter's Choice wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:08 am So South African posters, how do you feel about the SARU CEO threatening to sue NZR if they leave Super Rugby, whilst at the same time your SR teams are voting to leave Super Rugby? Makes you guys look like rank hypocrites. And you wonder why Kiwis and Aussies hate you?
The Kiwis hate the Aussies more then you can imagen
No they don't. Dumb post.
This Kiwi doesn’t. I do get sick of the SARU melodrama though. I prefer my sport to be less soap opera.
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Carter's Choice wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:08 am So South African posters, how do you feel about the SARU CEO threatening to sue NZR if they leave Super Rugby, whilst at the same time your SR teams are voting to leave Super Rugby? Makes you guys look like rank hypocrites. And you wonder why Kiwis and Aussies hate you?
Sounds like sound business sense to me, there is a contract in place, if one party wants to break said contract then obviously there will be a penalty to pay. Now that one party has shown their hand early and made certain moves, this does not mean that the other parties involved can’t make plans of their own to mitigate the contractual deviance of one of their partners, or are you suggesting that the three other partners should just bend over and take what the original contact breakers do to them, sans lube, that would just be silly
Besides having franchises vote on what they should do if certain things happen is meaningless until said things happen, it just means they are prepared to react, should they need to
Considering NZR‘s arrogance in making the first moves and then insulting one of their closest allies by only offering then the potential of two teams, is it any wonder the world of rugby is getting sick and tired of NZR to the point of no longer wanting to have anything to do with them [/Sluggy
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Jambanja wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:47 am
Carter's Choice wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:08 am So South African posters, how do you feel about the SARU CEO threatening to sue NZR if they leave Super Rugby, whilst at the same time your SR teams are voting to leave Super Rugby? Makes you guys look like rank hypocrites. And you wonder why Kiwis and Aussies hate you?
Sounds like sound business sense to me, there is a contract in place, if one party wants to break said contract then obviously there will be a penalty to pay. Now that one party has shown their hand early and made certain moves, this does not mean that the other parties involved can’t make plans of their own to mitigate the contractual deviance of one of their partners, or are you suggesting that the three other partners should just bend over and take what the original contact breakers do to them, sans lube, that would just be silly
Besides having franchises vote on what they should do if certain things happen is meaningless until said things happen, it just means they are prepared to react, should they need to
Considering NZR‘s arrogance in making the first moves and then insulting one of their closest allies by only offering then the potential of two teams, is it any wonder the world of rugby is getting sick and tired of NZR to the point of no longer wanting to have anything to do with them [/Sluggy
Errr... jammy, you do understand that SA teams have already left SupeRugby to play in the NH, yeah?
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Carter's Choice wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:22 pm Sounds like this is now a done deal, with the unions voting to join an expanded Pro 14 at their recently held SARU General Council. It's interesting, because just weeks ago the SARU was threatening to sue both NZR and RA if they moved to break up Super Rugby unilaterally.
Perhaps they phoned their solicitor, and were told that covid had frustrated, and terminated, the Super Rugby agreement, so they couldn't sue anyone after all.
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Shanky’s mate wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:59 am
Jambanja wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:47 am
Carter's Choice wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:08 am So South African posters, how do you feel about the SARU CEO threatening to sue NZR if they leave Super Rugby, whilst at the same time your SR teams are voting to leave Super Rugby? Makes you guys look like rank hypocrites. And you wonder why Kiwis and Aussies hate you?
Sounds like sound business sense to me, there is a contract in place, if one party wants to break said contract then obviously there will be a penalty to pay. Now that one party has shown their hand early and made certain moves, this does not mean that the other parties involved can’t make plans of their own to mitigate the contractual deviance of one of their partners, or are you suggesting that the three other partners should just bend over and take what the original contact breakers do to them, sans lube, that would just be silly
Besides having franchises vote on what they should do if certain things happen is meaningless until said things happen, it just means they are prepared to react, should they need to
Considering NZR‘s arrogance in making the first moves and then insulting one of their closest allies by only offering then the potential of two teams, is it any wonder the world of rugby is getting sick and tired of NZR to the point of no longer wanting to have anything to do with them [/Sluggy
Errr... jammy, you do understand that SA teams have already left SupeRugby to play in the NH, yeah?
Umm, I think they were shown the door, the same way the Force were, agreed to by all parties, this being the main difference between what happened then and what NZR is doing, they obviously didn’t bother consulting their partners and have made a unilateral decision...big difference
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Jb1981 wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:36 am
OomStruisbaai wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:30 am S15 is a dead horse many years ago. We should have move north many years ago.

Thanks Covid-19, our CC will be tops again, All Blacks, Wallabies and Pumas tours home and away will be awesome.
This won’t necessarily have any impact on the international scene. When a split was discussed previously it was noted that the Rugby Championship could continue as is.
The regular RC wont happen with the current Corvid-19 situation. To play it in one country isn't ideal.
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Carter's Choice wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:34 am
OomStruisbaai wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:31 am
Carter's Choice wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:08 am So South African posters, how do you feel about the SARU CEO threatening to sue NZR if they leave Super Rugby, whilst at the same time your SR teams are voting to leave Super Rugby? Makes you guys look like rank hypocrites. And you wonder why Kiwis and Aussies hate you?
The Kiwis hate the Aussies more then you can imagen
No they don't. Dumb post.
:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
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No doubt they've been heartened by the success of the Kings and whatever that other team was who went north.

See ya, boets.
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Sandstorm
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Nonsense Jambanda! There’s no way the Spiritual Guardians could possibly be at fault in this legal wrangle - it’s always us cheating Saffers who are to blame.
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Haven't South Africa referees already been officiating in the Pro14? And I haven't heard any complaints yet :bimbo:

The obvious reason for this is that the Pro14 could no longer resist the jetski, ferrari, and superyacht lifestyle that South Africa TV money will bring to the Celtic Isles. There'll be a day when SuperSport is a sacred word in the Pro14 offices.
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Sandstorm wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:26 am Nonsense Jambanda! There’s no way the Spiritual Guardians could possibly be at fault in this legal wrangle - it’s always us cheating Saffers who are to blame.
What legal wrangle?
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Ellafan wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:37 am
Sandstorm wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:26 am Nonsense Jambanda! There’s no way the Spiritual Guardians could possibly be at fault in this legal wrangle - it’s always us cheating Saffers who are to blame.
What legal wrangle?
The breakup of Soup. Keep up.
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This will make Bokke vs AB games even more special. No contact for clubs to soften the hate. More different playing styles.
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Ellafan
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Sandstorm wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:39 am
Ellafan wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:37 am
Sandstorm wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:26 am Nonsense Jambanda! There’s no way the Spiritual Guardians could possibly be at fault in this legal wrangle - it’s always us cheating Saffers who are to blame.
What legal wrangle?
The breakup of Soup. Keep up.
Covid restrictions frustrated and terminated the Super Rugby agreement. There is no legal wrangle.

What is odd is that despite all the claims by you lot that Saffer money was propping up SANZAAR, we* have somehow muddled forward without you.

(*Although, unfortunately, the Argies look to be a casualty, was SARU paying for them?)
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You think Soup is over because Covid? There’s millions of dollars of TV money still to be sorted out. The lawyers are coming....
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Ellafan
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Sandstorm wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:50 am You think Soup is over because Covid? There’s millions of dollars of TV money still to be sorted out. The lawyers are coming....
Unless there is an extremely craftily drafted force majeure clause in the super rugby agreement, that somehow managed to include what has factually happened in the pandemic in its definitions, then yes, Soup as we knew it under the old agreement is gone. Probably why your guys are heading north - they think its their best option, given the shit-shower the old conference based soup had turned into. As for the TV money, if they don't get games to televise, they won't have to pay. If they do get games, then they'll pay whatever is agreed going forward.

RC is, at the moment, a different kettle of fish. Just because it becomes more difficult to perform your obligations under a contract, and less profitable, does not mean it is frustrated. Super rugby as it was became impossible with all the travel restrictions/quarantine requirements/etc. The RC is not yet impossible - if the 4 unions can get their teams into a bubble (most likely in NZ) and play the games, with or without crowds, then it can go forward. It maybe that in a couple of months this also will become impossible. We shall see.

The collateral consideration is that the various unions had become dissatisfied with soup rugby, but the RC was their favoured international structure. The collective lack of interest in going forward with the old soup structure, compared with the effort to explore an RC bubble - including getting WR to shift the RC international window to make sure , in particular, the o/s Saffer and Argie players will be available- is fairly palpable.

What may happen in about 2022 or so is some sort of knockout tourny featuring the best two saffers from the last pro16, in a super-8 that only takes 16 days plus travel. But Soup as we knew it - gone and not much lamented in its more recent form.
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Well, if anything, should this come to pass it will settle the dispute of how much the South African audience was worth to NZ and Aus rugby.

I was never a supporter of us moving north, but have started warming to the idea lately.

I really hope that they can make a trans-taz tournament work. Personally I didn’t watch any full matches of SR AU or SR Aotearoa...only the highlights on YouTube, and that was at a time when there was literally no other rugby to even watch. Hopefully there is enough interest and money to sustain their competition without South African and European audiences taking an interest.

I wish them the best.
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Blake wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:34 pm Well, if anything, should this come to pass it will settle the dispute of how much the South African audience was worth to NZ and Aus rugby.

I was never a supporter of us moving north, but have started warming to the idea lately.

I really hope that they can make a trans-taz tournament work. Personally I didn’t watch any full matches of SR AU or SR Aotearoa...only the highlights on YouTube, and that was at a time when there was literally no other rugby to even watch. Hopefully there is enough interest and money to sustain their competition without South African and European audiences taking an interest.

I wish them the best.
European audiences were very strong for Super Rugby Aotearoa, Why would they stop watching?
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Carter's Choice wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:20 pm
Blake wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:34 pm Well, if anything, should this come to pass it will settle the dispute of how much the South African audience was worth to NZ and Aus rugby.

I was never a supporter of us moving north, but have started warming to the idea lately.

I really hope that they can make a trans-taz tournament work. Personally I didn’t watch any full matches of SR AU or SR Aotearoa...only the highlights on YouTube, and that was at a time when there was literally no other rugby to even watch. Hopefully there is enough interest and money to sustain their competition without South African and European audiences taking an interest.

I wish them the best.
European audiences were very strong for Super Rugby Aotearoa, Why would they stop watching?
Because there was nothing else on.
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Sandstorm wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:32 pm Because there was nothing else on.
What other Rugby is usually on at that time of the day in the UK/Europe?
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Jb1981
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Carter's Choice wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:56 pm
Sandstorm wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:32 pm Because there was nothing else on.
What other Rugby is usually on at that time of the day in the UK/Europe?
Exactly. It’s good timing for the weekend breakfast slot. I used to enjoy getting up and switching the Big Bash on when in the UK and would imagine rugby fans would do the same for NZ/Australian Super Rugby.
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Carter's Choice
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If I was a Celtic Rugby fan I would be very wary about admitting the South Africans into their League.

The SARU is a terrible organisation to be in partnership with. For the past 25 years in Super Rugby the SARU has constantly undermined their partner unions. They are obsessed with expansion, but lack the finances or player base to do this effectively. Their record of expansion is disgraceful, but no doubt they'll start demanding more teams as soon as the Celts let them in. They'll also demand conferences, because they'll start to complain about travel. It'll suddenly be grossly unfair for their teams to travel as much. And they'll demand their own referees officiate games in South AFrica, which had farcical outcomes in the old SR comp with 20-1 penalty counts in favour of the South African teams becoming routine.
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Ellafan wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:20 am
Sandstorm wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:50 am You think Soup is over because Covid? There’s millions of dollars of TV money still to be sorted out. The lawyers are coming....
Unless there is an extremely craftily drafted force majeure clause in the super rugby agreement, that somehow managed to include what has factually happened in the pandemic in its definitions, then yes, Soup as we knew it under the old agreement is gone. Probably why your guys are heading north - they think its their best option, given the shit-shower the old conference based soup had turned into. As for the TV money, if they don't get games to televise, they won't have to pay. If they do get games, then they'll pay whatever is agreed going forward.

RC is, at the moment, a different kettle of fish. Just because it becomes more difficult to perform your obligations under a contract, and less profitable, does not mean it is frustrated. Super rugby as it was became impossible with all the travel restrictions/quarantine requirements/etc. The RC is not yet impossible - if the 4 unions can get their teams into a bubble (most likely in NZ) and play the games, with or without crowds, then it can go forward. It maybe that in a couple of months this also will become impossible. We shall see.

The collateral consideration is that the various unions had become dissatisfied with soup rugby, but the RC was their favoured international structure. The collective lack of interest in going forward with the old soup structure, compared with the effort to explore an RC bubble - including getting WR to shift the RC international window to make sure , in particular, the o/s Saffer and Argie players will be available- is fairly palpable.

What may happen in about 2022 or so is some sort of knockout tourny featuring the best two saffers from the last pro16, in a super-8 that only takes 16 days plus travel. But Soup as we knew it - gone and not much lamented in its more recent form.
Knowledge applied with logic can be a brutal thing to behold. It had to be done though. :thumbup:
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Guy Smiley
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Have they gone yet?
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