The Official English Rugby Thread

[SaintK]

Just noticed that BT aren't televising either of tonight's games.

Instead we get college American Football and low level boxing.

Don't really get it as they're proper Prem rounds and we do get televised games tomorrow and Sunday.

Well that's bollocks! Not sure what I pay my subscription for as Rugby is the only sport I watch on BT

[Paddington Bear]

Just noticed that BT aren't televising either of tonight's games.

Instead we get college American Football and low level boxing.

Don't really get it as they're proper Prem rounds and we do get televised games tomorrow and Sunday.

What sort of audience could they reasonably have expected given the football?

[JM2K6]

Tbh plenty of club rugby fans do not give a flying fuck about football, but it's reasonable for a broadcaster (and advertisers) to not bother competing

[sockwithaticket]

Point in case I hadn't even thought about it as a possible reason, didn't even realise England were playing 'til Paddington gave me a reason to check. Even without the Qatar factor I probably wouldn't have watched a minute.

Thing is, both games are on PRTV, so they have broadcast teams and comms at the games anyway. It might not be as full bells and whistles as normal, but it surely can't require a huge amount of additional staff and effort to turn one of those into a live broadcast on BT. Might not be a big audience, but probably a larger one than for the stuff they're showing in place of a rugby game.

[Paddington Bear]

Point in case I hadn't even thought about it as a possible reason, didn't even realise England were playing 'til Paddington gave me a reason to check. Even without the Qatar factor I probably wouldn't have watched a minute.

Thing is, both games are on PRTV, so they have broadcast teams and comms at the games anyway. It might not be as full bells and whistles as normal, but it surely can't require a huge amount of additional staff and effort to turn one of those into a live broadcast on BT. Might not be a big audience, but probably a larger one than for the stuff they're showing in place of a rugby game.

It’s cost:benefit. College football is something they pay a licence for and then just show the American coverage, prem rugby is their coverage, broadcast teams etc. So you’d expect both to have a smaller audience tonight but their potential loss is much lower showing that than rugby.

[Kawazaki]

Monye lost a lot of respect from those in the game when he came out with his holier than thou sermon about drinking culture in rugby.

[sockwithaticket]

In case anyone's fussed I've found a stream for the Quins - Glaws game

https://vk.com/rugbyonsofa?z=video-2001 ... 0149158_-2

[Kawazaki]

Exeter lost at Newcastle.

Baxter for England calls only have Devon accents now. Delighted for the Falcons - they are my new second team since Wasps went tits up.

League is not great really.


Saracens



>>>>>daylight<<<<<<



>>>>>more daylight<<<<<<<



Sale, Quins, Saints


Exeter, Gloucester, Leicester


Bath, Newcastle


Bristol, Irish

[ASMO]

Really pretty training ground from Bristol.

[sockwithaticket]

Chaotic, but that was a fun try.

[sockwithaticket]

Bristol have had the opportunities to win this, but they keep making errors and bad decisions. The last several minutes has been littered with them.

[Oxbow]

There have been some pretty poor displays under Jones but I think that ranks as one of the worst.

[sockwithaticket]

Dowi mentioned that England managed just 1 linebreak on the stream I was watching.



It's one thing to play anti-rugby if you're actually good at it an it consistently brings wins, but we're not and have been getting worse. So all that remains is losing while providing zero spectacle.

[petej]

Dowi mentioned that England managed just 1 linebreak on the stream I was watching.



It's one thing to play anti-rugby if you're actually good at it an it consistently brings wins, but we're not and have been getting worse. So all that remains is losing while providing zero spectacle.

Can the RFU afford to fire him? I notice the younger players are slowly getting worse as they spend more time with Jones and his coaching team.

[SaintK]

There have been some pretty poor displays under Jones but I think that ranks as one of the worst.

Quite easily

[tc27]

There have been some pretty poor displays under Jones but I think that ranks as one of the worst.

Easily the worst.

Obviously put the attacking structure we saw some of last week back under wraps but the basics all went to shit. Scrums, lineouts and exits from the 22 all went badly.

[sockwithaticket]

Dowi mentioned that England managed just 1 linebreak on the stream I was watching.



It's one thing to play anti-rugby if you're actually good at it an it consistently brings wins, but we're not and have been getting worse. So all that remains is losing while providing zero spectacle.

Can the RFU afford to fire him? I notice the younger players are slowly getting worse as they spend more time with Jones and his coaching team.

Probably, if they really wanted to. I suspect results would need to be worse than they are to force them to that point given the shite they've already put up with and the difficulty of getting a replacement in with 1 international window left before the World Cup.

[petej]

Dowi mentioned that England managed just 1 linebreak on the stream I was watching.



It's one thing to play anti-rugby if you're actually good at it an it consistently brings wins, but we're not and have been getting worse. So all that remains is losing while providing zero spectacle.

Can the RFU afford to fire him? I notice the younger players are slowly getting worse as they spend more time with Jones and his coaching team.

Probably, if they really wanted to. I suspect results would need to be worse than they are to force them to that point given the shite they've already put up with and the difficulty of getting a replacement in with 1 international window left before the World Cup.

Allowing Jones to combine with Cockhead is a sure fire way to make any young player despair. This is a cycle we have seen at Tigers and Edinburgh with Cockerill. Think we are a long way from bottoming out.

[Slick]

Dowi mentioned that England managed just 1 linebreak on the stream I was watching.



It's one thing to play anti-rugby if you're actually good at it an it consistently brings wins, but we're not and have been getting worse. So all that remains is losing while providing zero spectacle.

Can the RFU afford to fire him? I notice the younger players are slowly getting worse as they spend more time with Jones and his coaching team.

Probably, if they really wanted to. I suspect results would need to be worse than they are to force them to that point given the shite they've already put up with and the difficulty of getting a replacement in with 1 international window left before the World Cup.

How much worse than 1 win, against Japan?

[sockwithaticket]

Can the RFU afford to fire him? I notice the younger players are slowly getting worse as they spend more time with Jones and his coaching team.

Probably, if they really wanted to. I suspect results would need to be worse than they are to force them to that point given the shite they've already put up with and the difficulty of getting a replacement in with 1 international window left before the World Cup.

How much worse than 1 win, against Japan?

4 losses might have done it, but who knows. The blazers have already put up with 4 years of not beating Scotland

[Slick]

Probably, if they really wanted to. I suspect results would need to be worse than they are to force them to that point given the shite they've already put up with and the difficulty of getting a replacement in with 1 international window left before the World Cup.

How much worse than 1 win, against Japan?

4 losses might have done it, but who knows. The blazers have already put up with 4 years of not beating Scotland

If I wasn’t Scottish I’d be ripping the piss for that

[Ovals]

That ws an entirely dismal performance from England. I can't think any positives at all from that game. We were a long way 2nd best in every aspect of play and there wasn't a single moment where I thought we might win. And some of the individual performances were dire. Surely Coles can't be the best 6 we have available - he was nowhere near being an international standard flanker. Freeman played 41 minutes and I can't remember him doing anything positive. Hill's stupidity cost us a try and a yellow from the overturned penalty. The Smith Farrell axis was, again, predictable and posed no threats, playing so far behind the gain line - By the time Tulaigi got the ball, he was snuffed out easily. Both Vunipolas just aren't up to it any more. We got beaten up at the set pieces and the breakdowns. I can't think of a single player on our side that I'd rate higher than a five and the vast majority were 3/4 - they weren't even doing the basics to an acceptable standard.

And it was just about the dullest game imaginable.

[Margin__Walker]

For what it's worth. Some guy on another forum saying that he's heard from a usually reliable source that Eddie's gone tomorrow and they've found the money down the back of the sofa to pay him off.

Believe it when I see it, but we can all dream.

[inactionman]

For what it's worth. Some guy on another forum saying that he's heard from a usually reliable source that Eddie's gone tomorrow and they've found the money down the back of the sofa to pay him off.

Believe it when I see it, but we can all dream.

I also live in hope, and I'll also believe it when I see it.

It's more likely to happen if Sweeney gets ousted/quits after the notably direct criticism he received in the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee hearing. For reasons that I'm sure escape all of us, Sweeney seems to have handed to keys to the kingdom to Jones - another bit of governance Sweeney doesn't appear to be in control of. You'd have thought any new chief would want to reset that relationship, and quickly.

[geordie_6]

For what it's worth. Some guy on another forum saying that he's heard from a usually reliable source that Eddie's gone tomorrow and they've found the money down the back of the sofa to pay him off.

Believe it when I see it, but we can all dream.

Well, that would be a very lovely beginning to the week. Think it would improve our chances at the World Cup.

Hell, bring in the Wasps coaching team on an interim basis...

[Hal Jordan]

That ws an entirely dismal performance from England. I can't think any positives at all from that game. We were a long way 2nd best in every aspect of play and there wasn't a single moment where I thought we might win. And some of the individual performances were dire. Surely Coles can't be the best 6 we have available - he was nowhere near being an international standard flanker. Freeman played 41 minutes and I can't remember him doing anything positive. Hill's stupidity cost us a try and a yellow from the overturned penalty. The Smith Farrell axis was, again, predictable and posed no threats, playing so far behind the gain line - By the time Tulaigi got the ball, he was snuffed out easily. Both Vunipolas just aren't up to it any more. We got beaten up at the set pieces and the breakdowns. I can't think of a single player on our side that I'd rate higher than a five and the vast majority were 3/4 - they weren't even doing the basics to an acceptable standard.

And it was just about the dullest game imaginable.

Coles was picked because of Billy V. If you pick an 8 who has no lineout ability then you have to pick a flanker who does. Jones isn't dropping Curry so it falls to the 6, but instead of picking a "proper" 6 who jumps at the back, Jones has decided a hybrid lock/6 is the only answer.

He got lucky with Lawes, who has matured from a pretty crap 6 who was looking every bit the lock out of position to a good 6, but his substitutes have been well below the standard.

And this creates a problem at the breakdown, as without a 6 who has a feel for the game, being either pacy enough to get there or intuitive enough to know where they are needed (or noth), Curry has to do the work of three men because Billy V's fat arse sure as hell is missing, or buried at the bottom of the pile after another "thunderous run".

[Hal Jordan]

Also, LCD's throwing in is way below the standard required. If you do pick three locks, you would hope the hooker would find the target more often than not.

[Paddington Bear]

Gah. Was at a charity ceilidh, kept my plane on airplane mode, got home at around midnight and watched the game. Really wish I hadn’t as I’d had a good day up till then.

There’s no shame in losing to SA per se, and it would be churlish to suggest otherwise. They look pretty slick, have more of an attacking game than previously and you don’t win games of rugby when you’re manshamed like that up front.

So up front seems like the place to start. We all knew we’d be up against it there before the start, so why did we try to go mano a mano with a pack who completely outmatched us? Two things sprung to mind for me:

1) probably the most intellectually interesting rugby team was Japan under Jones. They dealt with scrums by a crooked feed, sharp hook and 8 passing to a close receiver. Ball gone before the shove
2) last year in the same game we knew we’d get stuffed up front and used every trick in the book to buy penalties and stop SA scrummaging

Maybe it’s an ego thing for the players but it was phenomenally dim. Genge - not sure how he’s making world XVs, good player and bloke that he is. Stuffed two weeks running. Mako, predictable. Stewart, just hope he’s OK after that. As soon as we had no answer for the scrums beyond trying to dOmInAtE we were always going to lose.

Line out desperately disappointing, don’t really know what to say. Our set piece is falling apart and as Eddie has said himself plenty of times, England don’t win games without a set piece.

So we’re not talking about an amazing platform for the backs, albeit there was a fair amount of quick ball available at points. It’s time to knock Smith & Faz on the head as a failed experiment. Both are fine players and have been superb at 10 for their clubs this year, they don’t work together. Smith is not good at the kicking game he’s been asked to play this year and his garryowens were with I think one exception awful yesterday. Before I draw the ire of his superfans, Faz at 12 is clearly getting in his way, yesterday quite literally when he split the line, made a proper break then tried to turn right only to basically bounce into Faz who was running the same line as he can’t give Smith the leadership role he needs to succeed. Play one or the other and I’m not too fussed which way we go with it in the short term. Long term clearly we need to build a team around Smith.

Faz as captain is deeply unconvincing, we don’t seem to be able to cope with adversity, which is on him. A big factor in leadership is delegation and knowing when it’s not your day, as someone who has captained a lot of cricket as a bowler understanding that you need to take yourself off if you’ve been hit for a few sixes is mentally very tough but critical. Faz with a dodgy ankle had to admit he couldn’t kick properly. One thing to grin and bear it if the alternative is a Daly or a Slade, quite another when you’ve got a metronomic kicker at 10.

Do we need to accept that our dream of what Tuilagi will do for us is unreasonable for a injury prone 30 something? A fine player who has worked so hard to come back, but didn’t offer anything this autumn. Ended up picking and going to try and make something happen.

I don’t think anything can sum up Eddie Jones’ second term better than Jonny Hill. You have to give Faf credit for being such a prick in the old school style to warrant that reaction but FUCK ME that is the dimmest piece of rugby I’ve seen in years. Probably didn’t cost us the game, we’d have lost anyway, but how does a professional do that? And the pen at the end, the man may have improved his game and got rid of the stupid haircut but the man is a clown. Our discipline is shocking every single week and just seems to get worse. Can only come from the top.

I could go all day here but I guess to finish I’m in a really weird position where I’m desperate for more internationals. Not because I’d expect a turnaround automatically but because this year I feel I’ve been cheated out of my team. I don’t think England got me off the sofa once this year, the heart certainly didn’t beat faster either out of excitement or dread, it was just wall to wall rubbish. I have no objection to supporting a poor team if that is their ceiling, but talent wise this group of players could be winning games like that and be being talked about alongside those big four. This is not Corry and Borthwick’s England.

Think it’s fair to say we’re well off the top four, way better than Wales and the 1.5s and roughly even with Scotland, Argentina and Australia. That of course gives us a chance of going deep in next year’s RWC even if nothing changes, but what a criminal waste of talent and the upcoming 6N. With tickets at £150 a pop will people vote with their feet? That I suspect may make the RFU roll the dice. It can’t get more frustrating, take the risk.

[Paddington Bear]

For what it's worth. Some guy on another forum saying that he's heard from a usually reliable source that Eddie's gone tomorrow and they've found the money down the back of the sofa to pay him off.

Believe it when I see it, but we can all dream.

I also live in hope, and I'll also believe it when I see it.

It's more likely to happen if Sweeney gets ousted/quits after the notably direct criticism he received in the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee hearing. For reasons that I'm sure escape all of us, Sweeney seems to have handed to keys to the kingdom to Jones - another bit of governance Sweeney doesn't appear to be in control of. You'd have thought any new chief would want to reset that relationship, and quickly.

I often wonder how Sweeney got the job and my best explanation is that they did a raffle of debenture holders

[SaintK]

I can't be arsed to comment about that dismal performance!!
But the poisonous dwarf has come out with the usual drivel about "blaming me not the players" and "we're heading in the direction".
When none of the players are replicating their club form, particvularly the like of Farrell and Itoje then you just know there are huge issues.
Sack Jones tomorrow and offer Gatland some big bucks to caretake through to the RWC and get a new coach on board sharpish next year
FUCK OFF EDDIE JONES

[Paddington Bear]

I can't be arsed to comment about that dismal performance!!
But the poisonous dwarf has come out with the usual drivel about "blaming me not the players" and "we're heading in the direction".
When none of the players are replicating their club form, particvularly the like of Farrell and Itoje then you just know there are huge issues.
Sack Jones tomorrow and offer Gatland some big bucks to caretake through to the RWC and get a new coach on board sharpish next year
FUCK OFF EDDIE JONES

As someone said on the BBC podcast, how many times can a coach take full responsibility for a loss based on their performance and keep their job?

[Margin__Walker]

It's last chance saloon really in terms of offloading him. Assuming the money can be found, get someone new in now and they at least have a full 6 nations and world cup warm up games to try and get something together. Have a bad 6 nations with Eddie and its already too late.

Even the RFU must see the problem now. Even casual fans have had enough of the bloke. Comments under anything they post on social media are crushingly negative etc. At some point it will threaten the bottom line and their ability to flog obscenely expensive tickets.

[Oxbow]

I know he's only one player, but we've really missed Lawes. With Eddie refusing to even consider looking at another proper 6, his absence has thrown the balance of the pack off, and his lineout presence, carrying, tackling and experience have left a huge gap which hasn't come close to being filled.

[sockwithaticket]

For what it's worth. Some guy on another forum saying that he's heard from a usually reliable source that Eddie's gone tomorrow and they've found the money down the back of the sofa to pay him off.

Believe it when I see it, but we can all dream.

Well, that would be a very lovely beginning to the week. Think it would improve our chances at the World Cup.

Hell, bring in the Wasps coaching team on an interim basis...

But get rid of Gleeson (who was Wasps until fairly recently and didn't impress me while he was our attack coach).

[sockwithaticket]

I know he's only one player, but we've really missed Lawes. With Eddie refusing to even consider looking at another proper 6, his absence has thrown the balance of the pack off, and his lineout presence, carrying, tackling and experience have left a huge gap which hasn't come close to being filled.

While I still have reservations about him being in the back row (I don't think Lawes, Curry, Billy as a collective are quick enough to the breakdown on either side of the ball) he has developed well there in many facets and that's a problem if he's absent because Eddie is wedded to having that lineout option 6, but none of the other players with sufficient stature and lineout ability are anywhere near good enough as back rows to be starting at 6 in test matches against the best teams in the world. We do, however, have other back row options that are good enough do so in all facets bar the lineout.

[JM2K6]

It was fucking painful listening to the post match nonsense on Amazon. The only person actually really being critical at times was the nicest man in the world, Bryan Habana.

Hartley is wedded to Eddie and genuinely buys into every single bit of nonsense about how tight knit a group they are, how there's a plan, etc. Utterly incapable of honest assessment over a long term trend in performances.

Flatman is somehow even worse. Of the two I'd expect him to be able to point out all the problems, but he has this cringing deference to Jones and acts like it's heresy to criticise him. I guess Eddie's attitude to the media has suitably cowed him, but it's pathetic.

I don't understand how these players have gone backwards. He's turned a game breaking superstar at 10 and turned him into a rubbish clone of the one part of George Ford's game that Eddie actually rates. It was incredibly noticeable when Smith first started England camps that he would come back to Quins and start second guessing himself, doing a lot of the bad high balls we saw at the weekend, and generally hurting what makes him brilliant. Farrell has been on great form for Saracens and was dreadful all autumn. Billy was in rare form having added some real attacking chops and as soon as Eddie got hold of him it was a shitshow.

Some selections are just fucking insane and there's no point going over them. But we all know where the real problem is.

[Slick]

Looks like the journalists have all turned this weekend.

[Kawazaki]

Looks like the journalists have all turned this weekend.

Have they?

9 weeks time the 6Ns begins and it'll be just the same.

[Stranger]

I my find myself not particularly wanting to watch England at the moment.

[Ovals]

I my find myself not particularly wanting to watch England at the moment.

Yep - my local club end up sending their ticket allocation back because no one want to fork out a fortune to watch England play. I certainly don't.