So, coronavirus...

[Tichtheid]

https://www.zmescience.com/other/pieces ... idnt-work/

So all the folk who said that the UK should have followed Sweden were wrong. The UK death rate would have doubled

So, the UK death rate of 2,855 per million would’ve doubled and the Swedish rate of 2,058 would’ve halved if each country had followed the other’s policies? Something doesn’t add-up.

It's just confusing because the two Countries are different.

As the article says, Sweden is a sparsely populated Country, so it's death rate should be considerably lower than a densely populated Country like the UK. So if Sweden had adopted even the most basic of measures, it could have halved it's death rate.

By the same token; if the UK had not gone into lockdown when infections started to run out of control; the health system in cities would have been overwhelmed, & the death rate would have been terrifying.

Yeah, perhaps Scotland is a better comparison than the UK as a whole -

137.6 (death rate per 100,000 who died within 28 days of the first positive test)
177.7 (death rate per 100,000 whose death certificate mentioned COVID-19)

[dpedin]

Week ending 4th November and England and Wales excess deaths running at 14.8% higher than pre pandemic levels, running at c1,480 per week.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... vember2022

[Ymx]

Worrying.

Now don’t forget to wear a mask at all times and ….

[Calculon]

https://www.zmescience.com/other/pieces ... idnt-work/

So all the folk who said that the UK should have followed Sweden were wrong. The UK death rate would have doubled

So, the UK death rate of 2,855 per million would’ve doubled and the Swedish rate of 2,058 would’ve halved if each country had followed the other’s policies? Something doesn’t add-up.

It's just confusing because the two Countries are different.

As the article says, Sweden is a sparsely populated Country, so it's death rate should be considerably lower than a densely populated Country like the UK. So if Sweden had adopted even the most basic of measures, it could have halved it's death rate.

By the same token; if the UK had not gone into lockdown when infections started to run out of control; the health system in cities would have been overwhelmed, & the death rate would have been terrifying.

Sweden population is 90% urban living in the south of the country, so I doubt it has a massive advantage when it comes to low population density, at least when compared to the likes of Germany. I only read up to the 4th sentence in that article where the author describes Sweden’s policy as "disastrous", then scrolled down to see him using Dr Fake Ding Dong on twitter to back up his argument. The author is clearly one of those zero covid nutters who can’t let go.

When you look at cumulative deaths compared to projected Sweden didn’t do so badly, comparable to Finland and Norway. Coupled with the fact that their economy was one of the least affected and they didn’t have to try and home school their children, I doubt many Swedes agree that their covid policy was “disastrous”.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumu ... IN~GBR~DNK

[Tichtheid]

Worrying.

Now don’t forget to wear a mask at all times and ….

Are you advocating that people don't get a booster jab?

[dpedin]

Worrying.

Now don’t forget to wear a mask at all times and ….

Are you advocating that people don't get a booster jab?

He couldn't be that stupid ... could he?

[Ymx]

Worrying.

Now don’t forget to wear a mask at all times and ….

Are you advocating that people don't get a booster jab?

I couldn’t care less whether people do or not at this stage.

But I’m clearly teasing a certain type who is pushing it like an obsession/addiction, and desperate to return to 20/21 restrictions.

But you knew that.

[Tichtheid]

I couldn’t care less whether people do or not at this stage.

But I’m clearly teasing a certain type who is pushing it like an obsession/addiction, and desperate to return to 20/21 restrictions.

But you knew that.

To be honest I didn't.

I'll admit to having a near Pavlovian reaction whenever I see something that could be anti-vax, or anti-science as I prefer to call it.

[petej]

So, the UK death rate of 2,855 per million would’ve doubled and the Swedish rate of 2,058 would’ve halved if each country had followed the other’s policies? Something doesn’t add-up.

It's just confusing because the two Countries are different.

As the article says, Sweden is a sparsely populated Country, so it's death rate should be considerably lower than a densely populated Country like the UK. So if Sweden had adopted even the most basic of measures, it could have halved it's death rate.

By the same token; if the UK had not gone into lockdown when infections started to run out of control; the health system in cities would have been overwhelmed, & the death rate would have been terrifying.

Sweden population is 90% urban living in the south of the country, so I doubt it has a massive advantage when it comes to low population density, at least when compared to the likes of Germany. I only read up to the 4th sentence in that article where the author describes Sweden’s policy as "disastrous", then scrolled down to see him using Dr Fake Ding Dong on twitter to back up his argument. The author is clearly one of those zero covid nutters who can’t let go.

When you look at cumulative deaths compared to projected Sweden didn’t do so badly, comparable to Finland and Norway. Coupled with the fact that their economy was one of the least affected and they didn’t have to try and home school their children, I doubt many Swedes agree that their covid policy was “disastrous”.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumu ... IN~GBR~DNK

Sweden I always thought could partly do what they did because their population is healthier than the UK due to better public health policies plus their health service has more capacity. Suspect the quality of housing is better as well.

[dpedin]

I couldn’t care less whether people do or not at this stage.

But I’m clearly teasing a certain type who is pushing it like an obsession/addiction, and desperate to return to 20/21 restrictions.

But you knew that.

To be honest I didn't.

I'll admit to having a near Pavlovian reaction whenever I see something that could be anti-vax, or anti-science as I prefer to call it.

Ditto - Trumpism in a slightly different guise!

[Calculon]

It's just confusing because the two Countries are different.

As the article says, Sweden is a sparsely populated Country, so it's death rate should be considerably lower than a densely populated Country like the UK. So if Sweden had adopted even the most basic of measures, it could have halved it's death rate.

By the same token; if the UK had not gone into lockdown when infections started to run out of control; the health system in cities would have been overwhelmed, & the death rate would have been terrifying.

Sweden population is 90% urban living in the south of the country, so I doubt it has a massive advantage when it comes to low population density, at least when compared to the likes of Germany. I only read up to the 4th sentence in that article where the author describes Sweden’s policy as "disastrous", then scrolled down to see him using Dr Fake Ding Dong on twitter to back up his argument. The author is clearly one of those zero covid nutters who can’t let go.

When you look at cumulative deaths compared to projected Sweden didn’t do so badly, comparable to Finland and Norway. Coupled with the fact that their economy was one of the least affected and they didn’t have to try and home school their children, I doubt many Swedes agree that their covid policy was “disastrous”.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumu ... IN~GBR~DNK

Sweden I always thought could partly do what they did because their population is healthier than the UK due to better public health policies plus their health service has more capacity. Suspect the quality of housing is better as well.

Maybe less fatties as well? It's after all the second biggest risk factor after age.

[dpedin]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-63739617

Regardless of what we think about China's covid response the economic impact of this could be hugely significant for world trade and ultimately the economic outlook for the UK.

[Calculon]

China is a collectivist society with tremendous respect/subservience/fear of authority, but even so they are rapidly approaching braking point. The natives are restless and don't want zero COVID anymore. Despite popular belief, studies from Hong Kong has shown that Sinovac has similar efficacy as Pfizer bioNtech provided it is used as a three dose vaccine. After only two doses it's efficacy is quite a bit lower. Since the elderly are the most vunerable and also the least vaccinated age group in China, there might be many of them dying early. Ultimately, abolishing zero COVID will be a benefit to the Chinese economy and therefore the world economy.

[dpedin]

China is a collectivist society with tremendous respect/subservience/fear of authority, but even so they are rapidly approaching braking point. The natives are restless and don't want zero COVID anymore. Despite popular belief, studies from Hong Kong has shown that Sinovac has similar efficacy as Pfizer bioNtech provided it is used as a three dose vaccine. After only two doses it's efficacy is quite a bit lower. Since the elderly are the most vunerable and also the least vaccinated age group in China, there might be many of them dying early. Ultimately, abolishing zero COVID will be a benefit to the Chinese economy and therefore the world economy.

As I said in post I wasnt making a comment about covid and Chinese response but more concerned about the impact of the current Chinese response to these covid outbreaks on the current world economy and UK recovery etc. My fear it it will have a pretty damaging impact on trade and growth world wide if China locks down to the scale being discussed.

[Calculon]

Didn't see much discussion on the scale of lock down in that article.

My point being that large scale, severe, lock downs are becoming unsustainable. The locals have been fed a constant diet of state propaganda on how COVID is a death sentence and leading to chaos in the West, and have started to realize it's a load of shite. Beijing is already relaxing some restrictions despite increasing number of cases so it's difficult to see them going back to the same type of lockdown strategy used before

[dkm57]

Currently going through my second definite bout, I will say it's a lot different this time round.

Main differences: First time I felt like I was trying to breathe through water for about 3 days crawled up the stairs to bed on my hands and knees. This time I spent a night in agony as every time I moved it felt like my joints and muscles were being torn apart. I now seem to be recovering except for the usual post viral symptoms.

I can easily understand how COVID and it's variants kills many people, I also think it weakens other parts of the body leading to strokes and heart/circulatory issues, whether in time it is found to have a contributory factor in the rise in diagnosis of certain cancers only time will tell.

Frustratingly, I was due to get my boosters on the day I went down with the virus so will have to reschedule.

[Biffer]

Stock markets seem to have taken some positive movement from China relaxing it’s restrictions a wee bit. If, as there seems to be a lot of chatter about, they reduce them further then the world economy might find its feet again and inflationary pressures for everything except energy might ease substantially.

[Calculon]

Currently going through my second definite bout, I will say it's a lot different this time round.

Main differences: First time I felt like I was trying to breathe through water for about 3 days crawled up the stairs to bed on my hands and knees. This time I spent a night in agony as every time I moved it felt like my joints and muscles were being torn apart. I now seem to be recovering except for the usual post viral symptoms.

I can easily understand how COVID and it's variants kills many people, I also think it weakens other parts o and heart/circulatory issues, whether in time it is found to have a contributory factor in the rise in diagnosis of certain cancers only time will tell.

Frustratingly, I was due to get my boosters on the day I went down with the virus so will have to reschedule.

I'm sure "long covid" would increase your risk of some cancers, not least because of chronic inflammation. no doubt some other factors involved too, maybe some of them more specific to covid.

[dpedin]

Interesting article here

[petej]

Had my second/third bout of covid. Bit of fatigue and general rubbish feeling on Sunday. Then normal cold for 3 days tested positive Tuesday. Negative test by Thursday.

[Slick]

Currently going through my second definite bout, I will say it's a lot different this time round.

Main differences: First time I felt like I was trying to breathe through water for about 3 days crawled up the stairs to bed on my hands and knees. This time I spent a night in agony as every time I moved it felt like my joints and muscles were being torn apart. I now seem to be recovering except for the usual post viral symptoms.

I can easily understand how COVID and it's variants kills many people, I also think it weakens other parts of the body leading to strokes and heart/circulatory issues, whether in time it is found to have a contributory factor in the rise in diagnosis of certain cancers only time will tell.

Frustratingly, I was due to get my boosters on the day I went down with the virus so will have to reschedule.

Jeez mate, hope all OK. My sister and her family having a rough time of it at the moment as well

[dkm57]

Currently going through my second definite bout, I will say it's a lot different this time round.

Main differences: First time I felt like I was trying to breathe through water for about 3 days crawled up the stairs to bed on my hands and knees. This time I spent a night in agony as every time I moved it felt like my joints and muscles were being torn apart. I now seem to be recovering except for the usual post viral symptoms.

I can easily understand how COVID and it's variants kills many people, I also think it weakens other parts of the body leading to strokes and heart/circulatory issues, whether in time it is found to have a contributory factor in the rise in diagnosis of certain cancers only time will tell.

Frustratingly, I was due to get my boosters on the day I went down with the virus so will have to reschedule.

Jeez mate, hope all OK. My sister and her family having a rough time of it at the moment as well

Thanks , I seem to be recovering a bit every day, fed up feeling like cr@p, normally I'd just take flumed/whatever and push things to get on as normal. With this virus I'm giving my body time to recover in it's own time.

Today will be spent watching Edinburgh being kind to Benneton and Glasgow being hammered by Leinster while the rain hammers down outside and I get soaked anytime I have to poke my head outdoors, happy days

[GogLais]

Feeling lucky. Only had it once as far as I know. Just felt knackered for the best part of a week, no other symptoms.

[Uncle fester]

Got covid for second time about 10 days ago. Did my 7 days isolation. Wasn't too sick but I've been coughing for about two months now. Took it easy after that and booked a meeting room by myself at work so I wasn't on top of other people.

By Friday I knew I was in trouble and sure enough, I'm running a temp again. Young lad had a virus the week before so probably got a dose of that on top of the rona. Went for a walk this afternoon. 3.5km. Hips are aching after it.

[Blackmac]

Received my latest booster on Thursday. Had absolutely no issues, so spent Friday continuing with the landscaping at my daughters house. Hard day and probably shifted a fair few tonnes of earth and rubble. Woke up about 3am on Saturday morning drenched in sweat, shivering uncontrollably and with a horrendous headache. Been like that for most of the weekend but easing quickly now. My wife has taken great delight in waving the vaccination pamphlet in front of me, mainly the bit where it advises to avoid strenuous exercise for 24 to 48 hours.

[petej]

[Uncle fester]

Sounds like you might be pregnant

Fücking vaccine!

[dpedin]

So the Party of sound financial management and a PM who is an economic expert have a few questions to answer!

[petej]

China is a collectivist society with tremendous respect/subservience/fear of authority, but even so they are rapidly approaching braking point. The natives are restless and don't want zero COVID anymore. Despite popular belief, studies from Hong Kong has shown that Sinovac has similar efficacy as Pfizer bioNtech provided it is used as a three dose vaccine. After only two doses it's efficacy is quite a bit lower. Since the elderly are the most vunerable and also the least vaccinated age group in China, there might be many of them dying early. Ultimately, abolishing zero COVID will be a benefit to the Chinese economy and therefore the world economy.

Considering the latest developments and the issue with omicron going through the Chinese population with many of the most vulnerable not getting vaccinated. What do you think the Chinese authorities will do? Try to re-establish zero covid?

[Calculon]

IDK, no one knows which is the problem. My Chinese friends all think it is part of Government control and making money for the covid testers, and have lost hope of ever opening back up. They are utterly fed up, but what can they do. Protest and lose their jobs, even risk being arrested. Until earlier this year they still believed that getting COVID was a death sentence and people in the West were dying in the streets, so they mainly supported ZC. I think opposition to these restrictions are now uniting pretty much all sections of Chinese society: the elite, middle class, students, the poor
Chinese authorities are trying to reestablish ZC, while also easing back a little on restrictions. Something which doesn’t seem to be working.

Christopher Beddor, deputy China research director at Gavekal Dragonomics, outlined two alternate scenarios for a policy exit. An optimistic scenario would involve the continued use of many Covid restrictions “short of extended lockdowns.” The aim would be not to minimize cases but to avoid overwhelming hospitals and reduce deaths, he said.

In a “messier scenario,” the cycle of local lockdowns and protests continues for weeks, with some cities still attempting to contain the virus while it spreads out of control in others.

“In either case, China has arrived at the beginning of the end of Zero Covid,” he said.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets ... r-AA14CIco

[dpedin]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-63795285

About feckin time too!

Getting annoyed that folk are calling this is about 'mistakes', it was pretty obviously criminal negligence on behalf of the company which was awarded a £120m contract despite having been set up only months previously and failed to put in place many of the Quality Control standards expected of a clinical lab. His other company is also under investigation of its travel PCR testing in UK and US. The owner of this lab - Andrea Riposati - and his management team should be held to account as should the Ministers and Civil Servants who decided this charlatan could be awarded millions of £s worth of contracts.

[Calculon]

some people really should not be allowed to breed

Parents refuse to let their 4-month-old baby get heart surgery if blood is donated by a vaccinated person, saying it would be 'tainted'

https://www.insider.com/parents-refuse- ... ed-2022-11

[dpedin]

some people really should not be allowed to breed

Parents refuse to let their 4-month-old baby get heart surgery if blood is donated by a vaccinated person, saying it would be 'tainted'

https://www.insider.com/parents-refuse- ... ed-2022-11

Agreed!

[dpedin]

some people really should not be allowed to breed

Parents refuse to let their 4-month-old baby get heart surgery if blood is donated by a vaccinated person, saying it would be 'tainted'

https://www.insider.com/parents-refuse- ... ed-2022-11

Agreed!

[Ymx]

That’s batshit

In a video interview with an anti-vaccine campaigner, the parents said their child had been diagnosed with "severe pulmonary valve stenosis" and needed surgery "almost immediately," The Guardian reported.

But they said they were concerned that blood from someone who was vaccinated against COVID-19 would be used in the procedure.

"We don't want blood that is tainted by vaccination. That's the end of the deal – we are fine with anything else these doctors want to do." the father said, according to the Guardian.

Fine with anything else they want to do - adds a new level to it.

[tc27]

In the light of developments in China has the wests 'vaccinate and live with it' approach being vindicated vs the 'zero covid' approach?

[Dinsdale Piranha]

In the light of developments in China has the wests 'vaccinate and live with it' approach being vindicated vs the 'zero covid' approach?

Zero covid wasn't a practical long term strategy from a couple of months into the pandemic.

[Ymx]

I’m having my regular top up. Just a bit of a cold really.

A fair bit of it going around by the sounds.

No need for boosters. It’s here to stay, and does the rounds quite frequently. Like a cold.

[Tichtheid]

I’m having my regular top up. Just a bit of a cold really.

A fair bit of it going around by the sounds.

No need for boosters. It’s here to stay, and does the rounds quite frequently. Like a cold.

I'd say more like 'flu, for which we get seasonal vaccinations. That's the way I see it going for Covid, annual vaccinations for the over 50s and vulnerable groups.

[Ymx]

I’m having my regular top up. Just a bit of a cold really.

A fair bit of it going around by the sounds.

No need for boosters. It’s here to stay, and does the rounds quite frequently. Like a cold.

I'd say more like 'flu, for which we get seasonal vaccinations. That's the way I see it going for Covid, annual vaccinations for the over 50s and vulnerable groups.

50 is a bit young …. Ahem !

Do you think it will stop circulating in the summer months? I had thought it was more an all year round thing, with a new variant emerging regularly, spreading freely (globally) and with no vaccine which stops it in its tracks.

But I do expect the elderly (you and dpedin) should keep taking boosters unless they’ve had the thing recently to ensure a robust defence to it.

Though I don’t see it being a long term thing for the human race. Many have experienced it and fought it off so many times now, it’s just part of the ecosystem now. We are successfully living with it.