2022/23 Champions/Challenge Cup

[Sards]

Harlequins to smash the Sharks.

You can always be hopeful.

Playing against Andre the giant. Looking forward to seeing him in action

[Sards]

Best bit about this is that the Saffas will be tediously infighting and bitching on this thread instead of the URC one for a wee while

URC is shit. A couple of strong teams a lot of shit teams.
I would rather have Superrugby with the Kiwis and Aussies

[OomStruisbaai]

Sharks did well to appoint Kolisi as capt.

[OomStruisbaai]

Best bit about this is that the Saffas will be tediously infighting and bitching on this thread instead of the URC one for a wee while

URC is shit. A couple of strong teams a lot of shit teams.
I would rather have Superrugby with the Kiwis and Aussies

Superrugby killed our rugby. It was good until they changed the S12 format when everyone playing each other.

[Slick]

Best bit about this is that the Saffas will be tediously infighting and bitching on this thread instead of the URC one for a wee while

URC is shit. A couple of strong teams a lot of shit teams.
I would rather have Superrugby with the Kiwis and Aussies

How terribly ungrateful

[OomStruisbaai]

Best bit about this is that the Saffas will be tediously infighting and bitching on this thread instead of the URC one for a wee while

URC is shit. A couple of strong teams a lot of shit teams.
I would rather have Superrugby with the Kiwis and Aussies

How terribly ungrateful

Cardiff is one of the strong teams.

[Sandstorm]

Best bit about this is that the Saffas will be tediously infighting and bitching on this thread instead of the URC one for a wee while

URC is shit. A couple of strong teams a lot of shit teams.
I would rather have Superrugby with the Kiwis and Aussies

How terribly ungrateful

He misses the Kiwis terribly.

[lemonhead]

The spivs have clearly shat all over this competition and the format for the groups is utterly shite. Complete fucking nonsense which is hard to understand for a drop in fan. Shower of fucking morons came up with it.

Still good when it gets to the knockout stages though.

You would have thought that Cvc would want the Premier competition to be more attractive to the passing fan.

Serious question, but what drove the changes to the format? Other than spivs wanting to wreck rugby.

I thought it was a change triggered by Covid initially.

It was. Sadly a weekend in the calendar's been lost to the competition as a result and little to no chance of getting it back.

Which means another set of home and away fixtures in the group stage (how it damn well should be) ain't going to happen any time soon. Also rumblings about the French teams going apeshit and bailing if anything interferes with their T14 campaign while on tour down south. Probably bollocks but you'd need a Suzie moment to find that out.

[Margin__Walker]

It's a real shame. I really enjoyed the old pool stages. Just feels a bit half arsed in the new format.

[fishfoodie]

It's a real shame. I really enjoyed the old pool stages. Just feels a bit half arsed in the new format.

I don't think we've seen the end of the tinkering !

The English used to bitch the the Irish sides could rest key players, because the league was so one-sided, but with the addition of the SA sides, I don't think that's an excuse they can use anymore !I

The other part is that messing with the group games was partially because groups often had a gimme side, because there was one cripple there that just got beat up, & those games were just painful. With the removal of the National qualification card in the URC, these teams aren't there anymore, everyone is there on merit, & I don't think we'll be seeing those one-sided games anymore, so if you qualify, you'll either pick a competitive team, or you risk getting turned over !

I have high hopes that after this season, we will have another refactor, that will improve the competition, back to where it was.

[OomStruisbaai]

The teams in pools should at least play each other once. Even if it's 4 or 8 pools.

[OomStruisbaai]

Bulls and Lions to get wins this weekend.

[OomStruisbaai]

DHL Stormers: 15 Damian Willemse, 14 Alapati Leuia, 13 Ruhan Nel, 12 Dan du Plessis, 11 Leolin Zas, 10 Manie Libbok, 9 Herschel Jantjies, 8 Hacjivah Dayimani, 7 Ernst van Rhyn, 6 Deon Fourie, 5 Gary Porter, 4 Salmaan Moerat, 3 Neethling Fouche, 2 Joseph Dweba, 1 Steven Kitshoff (captain).
Replacements: 16 Andre-Hugo Venter, 17 Ali Vermaak, 18 Sazi Sandi, 19 Ben-Jason Dixon, 20 Marcel Theunissen, 21 Junior Pokomela, 22 Paul de Wet, 23 Clayton Blommetjies.

[robmatic]

It's a real shame. I really enjoyed the old pool stages. Just feels a bit half arsed in the new format.

I laughed a bit when I read the BBC puff piece about the competition today:

The format was first introduced as a result of Covid, a fixture logjam and a need to condense the competition.

But it has proved a success, making the pool stages more punchy than the old format which involved four-strong groups in which everyone played everyone else home and away.

What bullshit.

[Paddington Bear]

The back to back home/away group games at this time of year were about as spicy as non-test rugby could get. Real loss

[Margin__Walker]

Yep, sure there were a couple of teams either a lot weaker or that would give up. But largely it was high intensity / high quality rugby. And there was always tons of intrigue leading into the final few of rounds when it came to potential qualification scenarios.

It just had more time to breathe as a narrative. Pool stages here are a proper blink and you''ll miss them job with the additional confusion added in as it's not a straight forward pool format.

It's just a bit shit, and a shame it's hanging on post covid.

[Tichtheid]

Saracens v Edinburgh at StoneX Stadium, Sunday 3.15pm

1 Vunipola, 2 George, 3 Riccioni, 4 Itoje, 5 Tizard, 6 McFarland, 7 Earl, 8 Vunipola, 9 van Zyl, 10 Farrell (c), 11 Maitland, 12 Tompkins, 13 Lozowski, 14 Lewington, 15 Daly,
Replacements:16 Woolstencroft, 17 Mawi, 18 Clarey, 19 Hunter-Hill, 20 Christie, 21 Wray, 22 Davies, 23 Goode


15 Boffelli; 14 W Goosen, 13 M Bennett, 12 J Lang, 11 D van der Merwe; 10 B Kinghorn, 9 B Vellacott; 1 P Schoeman, 2 S McInally, 3 L de Bruin, 4 J Hodgson, 5 G Gilchrist (co-captain), 6 J Ritchie (co-captain), 7 L Crosbie, 8 V Mata.
Substitutes:16 P Harrison,17 B Venter, 18 W Nel, 19 M Sykes, 20 B Muncaster, 21 C Shiel, 22 C Savala, 23 D Hoyland.


I don't expect Edinburgh to get much change out of Sarries on Sunday, not after our pathetic showing against Munster - well on top for half an hour and then ending up getting battered is not good prep for a game like this.

However, the Embra lineup is about as strong as it can be given injuries to Hamish Watson, Sam Skinner and Chris Dean. It's always about the top two inches with Edinburgh.

[OomStruisbaai]

Bulls B Team vs Lyon

15 Wandisile Simelane 14 Sibongile Novuka 13 Stedman Gans 12 Marco Jansen van Vuren 11 Stravino Jacobs 10 Morné Steyn (captain) 9 Bernard van der Linde 8 Muller Uys 7 WJ Steenkamp 6 Nizaam Carr 5 Reinhardt Ludwig 4 Jacques du Plessis 3 Jacques van Rooyen 2 Bismarck du Plessis 1 Dylan Smith.

Bench: 16 Jan-Hendrik Wessels 17 Lizo Gqoboka 18 Sebastian Lombard 19 Janko Swanepoel 20 Phumzile Maqondwana 21 Keagan Johannes 22 Chris Barend Smith 23 Juan Mostert.

[Uncle fester]

The spivs have clearly shat all over this competition and the format for the groups is utterly shite. Complete fucking nonsense which is hard to understand for a drop in fan. Shower of fucking morons came up with it.

Still good when it gets to the knockout stages though.

You would have thought that Cvc would want the Premier competition to be more attractive to the passing fan.

Serious question, but what drove the changes to the format? Other than spivs wanting to wreck rugby.

I thought it was a change triggered by Covid initially.

URC teams winning too many games so the competition "needed to be fixed".

[robmatic]

Yep, sure there were a couple of teams either a lot weaker or that would give up. But largely it was high intensity / high quality rugby. And there was always tons of intrigue leading into the final few of rounds when it came to potential qualification scenarios.

It just had more time to breathe as a narrative. Pool stages here are a proper blink and you''ll miss them job with the additional confusion added in as it's not a straight forward pool format.

It's just a bit shit, and a shame it's hanging on post covid.

I just had a look at last year's pool tables to remind me how bobbins the format is. Last year, 5 teams qualified for the knockout stages after only 1 win in the group.

[OomStruisbaai]

Lions v Dragons
(Ellis Park, Johannesburg – Kick-off: 12.45; 10.45 UK time; 10.45 GMT)

Teams

Lions: 15 Andries Coetzee, 14 Sibahle Maxwane, 13 Sango Xamlashe, 12 Zander du Plessis, 11 Edwill van der Merwe, 10 Gianni Lombard, 9 Andre Warner, 8 Emmanuel Tshituka, 7 Darrien Landsberg, 6 Jaco Kriel, 5 Reinhard Nothnagel (captain), 4 Ruben Schoeman, 3 Ruan Dreyer, 2 Pieter Botha, 1 Sithembiso Sithole.
Replacements: 16 Jaco Visagie, 17 Jean-Pierre Smith, 18 Asenathi Ntlabakanye, 19 Ruan Venter, 20 Sibusiso Sangweni, 21 Sanele Nohamba, 22 Jordan Hendrikse, 23 Rynhardt Jonker.

Dragons: 15 Jordan Williams, 14 Jared Rosser, 13 Sio Tomkinson, 12 Jack Dixon, 11 Ashton Hewitt, 10 Sam Davies , 9 Rhodri Williams, 8 Ross Moriarty, 7 Harrison Keddie (captain), 6 Matthew Screech, 5 Ben Carter, 4 Joe Davies, 3 Chris Coleman, 2 Bradley Roberts, 1 Rhodri Jones.
Replacements: 16 Brodie Coghlan, 17 Rob Evans, 18 Lloyd Fairbrother, 19 Aaron Wainwright, 20 Ben Fry, 21 Lewis Jones, 22 Will Reed, 23 Steff Hughes.

Referee: Anthony Woodshorpe
Assistant referees: Dan Jones, George Selwood
TMO: Dean Richards

Section Paloise v Cheetahs
(Stade du Hameau, Pau – Kick-off: 14.00; 15.00 SA time; 13.00 GMT)

Teams

Section Paloise: 15 Clément Mondinat, 14 Eoghan Barrett, 13 Yvan Reilhac, 12 Jale Vatubua, 11 Vincent Pinto, 10 Thibault Debaes, 9 Clovis Lebail, 8 Sacha Zegueur, 7 Thibaut Hamonou, 6 Martin Puech, 5 Jimi Maximin, 4 Hugo Auradou, 3 Nicolas Corato, 2 Lucas Rey (captain), 1 Rémi Seneca.
Replacements: 16 Youri Delhommel, 17 Siegfried Fisiihoi, 18 Nicolaas van Dyk, 19 Mickael Capelli, 20 Reece Hewat, 21 Thibault Daubagna, 22 Elliot Roudil, 23 Mathias Colombet.

Cheetahs: 15 Frans Steyn, 14 Daniel Kasende, 13 David Brits, 12 Reinhardt Fortuin, 11 Tapiwa Mafura, 10 Siyabonga Masuku, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Friedle Olivier, 7 Teboho Mohoje, 6 Jeandrè Rudolph, 5 Victor Sekekete (captain), 4 Mzwanele Zito, 3 Aranos Coetzee, 2 Louis van der Westhuizen, 1 Schalk Ferreira.
Replacements: 16 Marko Janse van Rensburg, 17 Mzamo Majola, 18 Hencus van Wyk, 19 Rynier Bernardo, 20 Sibabalo Qoma, 21 Daniel Maartens, 22 Rewan Kruger, 23 Robert Ebersohn.

Referee: Sam Grove-White
Assistant referees: Hollie Davidson, Ru Campbell
TMO: Andrew McMenemy

[JM2K6]

Quick international caps comparison between Sharks and Quins. * denotes current internationals or ones who have at least been in recent squads (but not Care, whose career seems very much over!).

1. Ox Nche (19*)
2. Bongi Mbonambi (63*)
3. Carlu Sadie (0)
4. Eben Etzebeth (91*)
5. Gerbrandt Grobler (0)
6. Siya Kolisi (c) (SA captain, 67*)
7. Vincent Tshituka (0)
8. Phepsi Buthelezi (0)
9. Jaden Hendrikse (12*)
10. Curwin Bosch (3)
11. Makazole Mapimpi (36*)
12. Ben Tapuai (7)
13. Francois Venter (7)
14. Werner Kok (0)
15. Boeta Chamberlain (0)

vs

1. Joe Marler (83)
2. Jack Walker (0)
3. Wilco Louw (14)
4. Dino Lamb (0)
5. Irne Herbst (0)
6. Jack Kenningham (0)
7. Will Evans (0)
8. Alex Dombrandt – Captain (7*)
9. Danny Care (87)
10. Tommy Allan (66)
11. Josh Bassett (0)
12. Andre Esterhuizen (11*)
13. Joe Marchant (13*)
14. Cadan Murley (0)
15. Nick David (0)

[Margin__Walker]

Personally, I miss watching Ben Botica playing for Quins on these big European occasions.

[robmatic]

Quick international caps comparison between Sharks and Quins. * denotes current internationals or ones who have at least been in recent squads (but not Care, whose career seems very much over!).

1. Ox Nche (19*)
2. Bongi Mbonambi (63*)
3. Carlu Sadie (0)
4. Eben Etzebeth (91*)
5. Gerbrandt Grobler (0)
6. Siya Kolisi (c) (SA captain, 67*)
7. Vincent Tshituka (0)
8. Phepsi Buthelezi (0)
9. Jaden Hendrikse (12*)
10. Curwin Bosch (3)
11. Makazole Mapimpi (36*)
12. Ben Tapuai (7)
13. Francois Venter (7)
14. Werner Kok (0)
15. Boeta Chamberlain (0)

vs

1. Joe Marler (83)
2. Jack Walker (0)
3. Wilco Louw (14)
4. Dino Lamb (0)
5. Irne Herbst (0)
6. Jack Kenningham (0)
7. Will Evans (0)
8. Alex Dombrandt – Captain (7*)
9. Danny Care (87)
10. Tommy Allan (66)
11. Josh Bassett (0)
12. Andre Esterhuizen (11*)
13. Joe Marchant (13*)
14. Cadan Murley (0)
15. Nick David (0)

Sharks are a bit of a shambles this season though.

[fishfoodie]

Irish Teams for the Weekend

Leinster: Hugo Keenan; Jimmy O’Brien, Garry Ringrose (capt), Charlie Ngatai, James Lowe; Ross Byrne, Jamison Gibson-Park; Andrew Porter, Dan Sheehan, Michael Ala’alatoa, James Ryan, Jason Jenkins, Ryan Baird, Josh van der Flier, Caelan Doris.

Replacements: Rónan Kelleher, Ed Byrne, Cian Healy, Ross Molony, Jack Conan, Luke McGrath, Harry Byrne, Jamie Osborne.


Munster: Mike Haley; Calvin Nash, Antoine Frisch, Rory Scannell, Shane Daly; Joey Carbery, Craig Casey; Jeremy Loughman, Niall Scannell, John Ryan; Jean Kleyn, Tadhg Beirne; Peter O’Mahony (capt), John Hodnett, Gavin Coombes.

Replacements: Diarmuid Barron, Josh Wycherley, Roman Salanoa, Jack O’Donoghue, Alex Kendellen, Paddy Patterson, Jack Crowley, Keith Earls.


Ulster: Mike Lowry; Ethan McIlroy, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale; Billy Burns, Nathan Doak; Andy Warwick, Rob Herring, Tom O'Toole; Alan O’Connor (captain), Kieran Treadwell; Matty Rea, Nick Timoney, Duane Vermeulen.

Replacements: Tom Stewart, Eric O’Sullivan, Marty Moore, Sam Carter, Marcus Rea, Dave Shanahan, Stewart Moore, Ben Moxham


Connacht: Tiernan O’Halloran; Adam Byrne, Tom Daly, Cathal Forde, Diarmuid Kilgallon; David Hawkshaw, Caolin Blade; Peter Dooley, Dylan Tierney-Martin, Jack Aungier; Josh Murphy, Niall Murray; Jarrad Butler (capt), Shamus Hurley-Langton, Paul Boyle.

Replacements: Shane Delahunt, Denis Buckley, Sam Illo, Leva Fifita, Oisín McCormack, Colm Reilly, Conor Fitzgerald, Tom Farrell.


Connacht have to rest a number of Internationals , so I hope Newcastle are shite.

And the weather forecast for Ireland is Baltic cold, with no breeze, so I hope everyone's pitch is playable.

[Torquemada 1420]

Okay. I'm confused. Just noticed the Cheetahs are in the Mickey Mouse but they don't even play in the URC

So when was the last time they even played anybody?

[SaintK]

Have to say I'm feeling a bit meh about this seasons Champions Cup.
I don't like the pool format. Saints have drawn La Rochelle and Munster (whoopee!) and I'm still not convinced that Saffer teams should be involved.
Hopefully some good matches, decent rugby and a few surprise results might help.

[Margin__Walker]

I'm fine with the SA teams being in, other than the pain of travelling. We are going to face them enough on the international stage. There's no harm in English clubs having some exposure playing SA teams in a competitive environment here.

Format is more of an issue than the teams involved for me.

But then I never was a huge traditionalist

[OomStruisbaai]

Okay. I'm confused. Just noticed the Cheetahs are in the Mickey Mouse but they don't even play in the URC

So when was the last time they even played anybody?

Cheetahs has been invited.
viewtopic.php?p=210463&hilit=Cheetahs#p210463

They played against Emercing Ireland and USA in the Toyota Challenge. The Cheetahs is stronger then any Welsch and Italy frURC teams.

[robmatic]

Okay. I'm confused. Just noticed the Cheetahs are in the Mickey Mouse but they don't even play in the URC

So when was the last time they even played anybody?

Cheetahs has been invited.
viewtopic.php?p=210463&hilit=Cheetahs#p210463

They played against Emercing Ireland and USA in the Toyota Challenge. The Cheetahs is stronger then any Welsch and Italy frURC teams.

They didn't do that great in their last Pro 14 season, and I doubt that they are stronger than Benetton at the moment. That said, if they give it a decent go in the group stages they will probably go through even if they haven't been playing much, especially if Pau and Scarlets play weak teams.

[PCPhil]

Scarlets always play weak teams?

[OomStruisbaai]

Sadly they don't play in Bloemfontein. Pretty sure Pienaar and Steyn will be valuable for them.

[Tichtheid]

Sadly they don't play in Bloemfontein. Pretty sure Pienaar and Steyn will be valuable for them.

How old are they now?

Quality players, but they must be getting on a bit.

[robmatic]

Scarlets always play weak teams?

This is a fair point.

[OomStruisbaai]

Sadly they don't play in Bloemfontein. Pretty sure Pienaar and Steyn will be valuable for them.

How old are they now?

Quality players, but they must be getting on a bit.

The Cheetah coach and most players are young Matie players coming through our Varsity Cup. The Varsity Cup produce some excellent talent like Etsebeth, the Stormers coach as example. Pienaar and Steyn experience of NH conditions and opposition will be valuable for the team. It's a lifeline for them and myself hope they will produce.

[Tichtheid]

Irish are playing well, that was a cracking try

poor defence from Montpellier, though

[fishfoodie]

That's a belter of a try by Irish

[Tichtheid]

Bye bye Creevey

[sockwithaticket]

I still can't believe we haven't capped Hassell-Collins.

[fishfoodie]

I still can't believe we haven't capped Hassell-Collins.

I'd love to know if he's any Irish Grandparents