UK Home energy prices

[weegie01]

My younger son had turned down the heating in his flat substantially to economise. He is in London and had a call from his flatmate to say the boiler was leaking. Apparently rain has blown in through the pipe in the wall and frozen, blowing the boiler. I have no idea how that happens, but given the standard of work the cowboys who did the conversion from a hotel to flats, it does not surprise me.

Apparently he may have got away with it if the boiler had not been off so much.

So time for a new boiler.

Through the flue? "The usual cause is an incorrect angle on the flue! It should slope downwards towards the outside at about 3 degrees" or " if the void area around the flue is not fully made good with a sand & cement mix"
Definitely sounds like substandard work then.

Yup, it is ridiculous.

[Blackmac]

My younger son had turned down the heating in his flat substantially to economise. He is in London and had a call from his flatmate to say the boiler was leaking. Apparently rain has blown in through the pipe in the wall and frozen, blowing the boiler. I have no idea how that happens, but given the standard of work the cowboys who did the conversion from a hotel to flats, it does not surprise me.

Apparently he may have got away with it if the boiler had not been off so much.

So time for a new boiler.

Through the flue? "The usual cause is an incorrect angle on the flue! It should slope downwards towards the outside at about 3 degrees" or " if the void area around the flue is not fully made good with a sand & cement mix"
Definitely sounds like substandard work then

I would imagine it's a combi boiler so could it not be the condensing pipe that has frozen. Common problem but haven't heard of it causing permanent damage though.

[Slick]

Our energy bill was £4 this month

[C69]

Our energy bill was £4 this month

Mine well over £400

[weegie01]

My younger son had turned down the heating in his flat substantially to economise. He is in London and had a call from his flatmate to say the boiler was leaking. Apparently rain has blown in through the pipe in the wall and frozen, blowing the boiler. I have no idea how that happens, but given the standard of work the cowboys who did the conversion from a hotel to flats, it does not surprise me.

Apparently he may have got away with it if the boiler had not been off so much.

So time for a new boiler.

Through the flue? "The usual cause is an incorrect angle on the flue! It should slope downwards towards the outside at about 3 degrees" or " if the void area around the flue is not fully made good with a sand & cement mix"
Definitely sounds like substandard work then

I would imagine it's a combi boiler so could it not be the condensing pipe that has frozen. Common problem but haven't heard of it causing permanent damage though.

Water leaking, £2,700 repair bill whatever it is.

All the work in the flat is done by a contractor we have known and trusted for many years so that bill will be genuine.

[petej]

Our energy bill was £4 this month

The standing charge alone is now £25 per month. With not being able to move suppliers due to energy cap can we just call bullshit on this electricity "market".

[dpedin]

Through the flue? "The usual cause is an incorrect angle on the flue! It should slope downwards towards the outside at about 3 degrees" or " if the void area around the flue is not fully made good with a sand & cement mix"
Definitely sounds like substandard work then

I would imagine it's a combi boiler so could it not be the condensing pipe that has frozen. Common problem but haven't heard of it causing permanent damage though.

Water leaking, £2,700 repair bill whatever it is.

All the work in the flat is done by a contractor we have known and trusted for many years so that bill will be genuine.

I had a similar problem - water leaking from blocked gutter at junction with downpipe, water overflowed, fell and hit combo boiler flue and came back into boiler/kitchen. Luckily I switched boiler off as soon as it started happening and there was no damage to boiler and managed to avoid water damage to kitchen units. Flue hadn't been fitted correctly when flats were built and was at wrong angle and distance from wall. All sorted now but a near thing and costs were mainly to clean guttering and downpipes, could have been worse.

[Slick]

Our energy bill was £4 this month

The standing charge alone is now £25 per month. With not being able to move suppliers due to energy cap can we just call bullshit on this electricity "market".

That what it was. £20 the month before

[vball]

I am getting really confused.

Was £175 in credit last month.
made my monthly payment for £85
OVO paid £67 into my bank account.
Go online tonight and I also see a credit of £67 against my usage so my balance is now £235 in credit.

I have no idea what is going on.

My monthly coal bill was £60 and is now £100.
As for heating oil, bloody scary to even think about it !!

[C69]

I am getting really confused.

Was £175 in credit last month.
made my monthly payment for £85
OVO paid £67 into my bank account.
Go online tonight and I also see a credit of £67 against my usage so my balance is now £235 in credit.

I have no idea what is going on.

My monthly coal bill was £60 and is now £100.
As for heating oil, bloody scary to even think about it !!

Your £67 credit is the govt cost of living amount.
Your credit will be reduced after you send your next readings no doubt.

[vball]

I am getting really confused.

Was £175 in credit last month.
made my monthly payment for £85
OVO paid £67 into my bank account.
Go online tonight and I also see a credit of £67 against my usage so my balance is now £235 in credit.

I have no idea what is going on.

My monthly coal bill was £60 and is now £100.
As for heating oil, bloody scary to even think about it !!

Your £67 credit is the govt cost of living amount.
Your credit will be reduced after you send your next readings no doubt.

Never send readings ... Smart meter does all that jazz. Or at least I hope it does !!

[redderneck]

Just came off the three year fixed price deal I had for gas/electricity with a provider in Belgium. Bulk of cost is gas, for heating, water and cooking. The monthly set-aside under the deal was c. EUR 200; would be less in Summer, more in Winter, but that's what you sign up to pay, and then once a year you settle up. Have been told there is no new fixed price deal on offer, it's straight onto variable rate, and the provider helpfully suggests we would need to prepare ourselves to face a monthly average, based on consumption pattern, of EUR 1,094.

Fcuk you, Vlad.

[tc27]

EUR 1,094.

Jesus motherfucking christ

[Sandstorm]

EUR 1,094.

Jesus motherfucking christ

Indeed

[TB63]

Wood pellets.. I've made a rocket stove heater for my workshop that runs on pellets..
Buying online..£1,000 for full pallet of 15Kg bags, 60 of them..£16/bag..
B and M store, 15Kg cat litter...just happen to be wood pellets..£10/bag...

Actually, just found..https://www.wilko.com/en-uk/wilko-woode ... /p/0070462

[tc27]

Being a really good few days for wind.



Of course during the last cold snap there was virtually no wind and we relied on gas, nuclear and coal.

[tabascoboy]

Being a really good few days for wind.



Of course during the last cold snap there was virtually no wind and we relied on gas, nuclear and coal.

No problem for the next few days either

[Ymx]

EUR 1,094.

Jesus motherfucking christ

Bloody Brexit !

[fishfoodie]

EUR 1,094.

Jesus motherfucking christ

Bloody Brexit !

The economics for funding Ukraine are obvious !

... in fact it makes my idea for putting a bounty of 1 Billion Dollars on the head of one particular rancid piece of offal seem even more obvious !

[Ymx]

Jesus motherfucking christ

Bloody Brexit !

The economics for funding Ukraine are obvious !

... in fact it makes my idea for putting a bounty of 1 Billion Dollars on the head of one particular rancid piece of offal seem even more obvious !

Farrage is pretty dreadful, but not sure about this !

But in seriousness, bounty of 1 billion would save us a fortune. Depending upon who fills the power vacuum.

[fishfoodie]

Bloody Brexit !

The economics for funding Ukraine are obvious !

... in fact it makes my idea for putting a bounty of 1 Billion Dollars on the head of one particular rancid piece of offal seem even more obvious !

Farrage is pretty dreadful, but not sure about this !

But in seriousness, bounty of 1 billion would save us a fortune. Depending upon who fills the power vacuum.

Thanks to the offal, there isn't any single candidate, so the whole place will dissolve into internecine warfare for a few years, & the Republics will go their own way.

[mat the expat]

Sitting talking to my Mum back in Devon and she's sitting there shivering away

Has the UK really gone back to the 1970s?

[tc27]

UK making 60% of its electricity fron wind today and only using Gas for load regulation.

Also exporting power into Europe.

[Ymx]

UK can’t seem to store its energy very well.

Surely that’s the first port of call for investment.

Gas storage would be the first no brainer.

Even wind power storage. Not batteries though, as I don’t think that scales. I had wondered about storing the excess wind energy in to something like gravitational potential energy? Eg topping up a dam and then later on, to realise it, using hydroelectric.

Or doing the equivalent with tidal energy.

[TB63]

UK making 60% of its electricity fron wind today and only using Gas for load regulation.

Also exporting power into Europe.

Fat Albert just choked on his cornflakes..

[Blackmac]

If you Google "wholesale energy prices" it is an utter shitshow with every article a complete contradiction of the previous. One article even suggests that wholesale electricity and gas prices are the lowest they have been for 12 years.

[tc27]

UK can’t seem to store its energy very well.

Surely that’s the first port of call for investment.

Gas storage would be the first no brainer.

Even wind power storage. Not batteries though, as I don’t think that scales. I had wondered about storing the excess wind energy in to something like gravitational potential energy? Eg topping up a dam and then later on, to realise it, using hydroelectric.

Or doing the equivalent with tidal energy.

Converting spare renewable energy into hydrogeb is definitely a ongoing project

[Dinsdale Piranha]

UK can’t seem to store its energy very well.

Surely that’s the first port of call for investment.

Gas storage would be the first no brainer.

Even wind power storage. Not batteries though, as I don’t think that scales. I had wondered about storing the excess wind energy in to something like gravitational potential energy? Eg topping up a dam and then later on, to realise it, using hydroelectric.

Or doing the equivalent with tidal energy.

There are no scaleable storage solutions currently. The grid has always been based on balancing supply and demand in real time. Grid storage needs to be worked on to allow renewables to make up a larger proportion of the energy mix, as does time shifting energy consumption.

[Paddington Bear]

We could just build nuclear and not have to worry so much about whether the wind is blowing or not

[Raggs]

We could just build nuclear and not have to worry so much about whether the wind is blowing or not

Not quite the same, but saw a video that raised an interesting point. With the price of renewable energy dropping constantly, is it even going to be financially viable to produce nuclear fusion reactors, even if we crack the science? I'm sure the science will continue, since it's going to drive us into the stars etc, but for the next century, it may simply make more sense to focus on renewables and storage.

Personally I think small scale storage and large scale generation is the best option. Each household can have a few batteries to rely on, whilst the grid keeps everything topped up nicely.

[MungoMan]

If you Google "wholesale energy prices" it is an utter shitshow with every article a complete contradiction of the previous. One article even suggests that wholesale electricity and gas prices are the lowest they have been for 12 years.

I've not looked, but shouldn't up-to-date prices be available somewhere? The Ofgem website might point the way, even if not directly.

(Here in Straya it's not hard to track down prices: for example, the price for Queensland's current 5-minute trading interval is $118.59/MWh).

[Dinsdale Piranha]

If you Google "wholesale energy prices" it is an utter shitshow with every article a complete contradiction of the previous. One article even suggests that wholesale electricity and gas prices are the lowest they have been for 12 years.

I've not looked, but shouldn't up-to-date prices be available somewhere? The Ofgem website might point the way, even if not directly.

(Here in Straya it's not hard to track down prices: for example, the price for Queensland's current 5-minute trading interval is $118.59/MWh).

Finding the current market prices isn't difficult but so much energy trading is done on futures that the price right now and the fixed price for the next 6 months might not bear any relation to each other.

Here's today's electricity market for delivery tomorrow. Price was zero to negative overnight and now the wind has dropped its on the way up again. Price has been dropping for the last month.

[Raggs]

Just seen my first real bills since moving to our new place. Ouch. Electric car drives the electric up but I'm hoping to get on top of the heating too. More jumpers less heating.

[MungoMan]

If you Google "wholesale energy prices" it is an utter shitshow with every article a complete contradiction of the previous. One article even suggests that wholesale electricity and gas prices are the lowest they have been for 12 years.

I've not looked, but shouldn't up-to-date prices be available somewhere? The Ofgem website might point the way, even if not directly.

(Here in Straya it's not hard to track down prices: for example, the price for Queensland's current 5-minute trading interval is $118.59/MWh).

Finding the current market prices isn't difficult but so much energy trading is done on futures that the price right now and the fixed price for the next 6 months might not bear any relation to each other.

Here's today's electricity market for delivery tomorrow. Price was zero to negative overnight and now the wind has dropped its on the way up again. Price has been dropping for the last month.

Contracts of various sorts - baseload futures, caps, strips and so forth - are widely traded here as well. Retailers use them to lock in a degree of certainty about future wholesale pricing, relying on them to underpin the energy component in their retail contract pricing for the next 6-12 months. Unlike the UK, all such contracts are purely financial instruments - i.e. not for physical energy - and fall outside electricity market regulation as such (other laws are still relevant, of course).

Physical energy sales in the NEM - the country's largest electrity market - are overseen by market and system operator AEMO, with AEMO's dispatch algorithm sending out instructions to generators every five minutes of every day. That is, there is no regulated 'day ahead' market.

Average monthly prices are on falling trend since some very ugly highs in May - July 2022 pushed a few smaller retailers out of the game.

[tabascoboy]

My total spend on gas for 2022 = £601, a fraction under 50% of that since October 1st...

[petej]

UK can’t seem to store its energy very well.

Surely that’s the first port of call for investment.

Gas storage would be the first no brainer.

Even wind power storage. Not batteries though, as I don’t think that scales. I had wondered about storing the excess wind energy in to something like gravitational potential energy? Eg topping up a dam and then later on, to realise it, using hydroelectric.

Or doing the equivalent with tidal energy.

Batteries do work and scale but really for short term storage (24hr) and grid balancing.

Using excess renewable energy to generate hydrogen or synthetic fuels and then store for longer term energy storage. UK doesn't have big enough mountains for gravity based storage options unlike Switzerland.

As for gas storage it was deemed to be not worth investing in by the markets and government.

[MungoMan]

UK can’t seem to store its energy very well.

Surely that’s the first port of call for investment.

Gas storage would be the first no brainer.

Even wind power storage. Not batteries though, as I don’t think that scales. I had wondered about storing the excess wind energy in to something like gravitational potential energy? Eg topping up a dam and then later on, to realise it, using hydroelectric.

Or doing the equivalent with tidal energy.

Batteries do work and scale but really for short term storage (24hr) and grid balancing.

Using excess renewable energy to generate hydrogen or synthetic fuels and then store for longer term energy storage. UK doesn't have big enough mountains for gravity based storage options unlike Switzerland.

As for gas storage it was deemed to be not worth investing in by the markets and government.

Effective pumped hydro storage (PHS) doesn't rely on Swiss-sized mountains. If it did there would be no existing PHS is Australia and none planned. Yet it certainly does exist here and more is planned (and not merely pipe-dream stuff, e.g. Snowy 2.0 is under construction).

OTOH, the UK is constrained by its land area cf. its population, altho' suitable sites may nevertheless exist.

[dpedin]

UK can’t seem to store its energy very well.

Surely that’s the first port of call for investment.

Gas storage would be the first no brainer.

Even wind power storage. Not batteries though, as I don’t think that scales. I had wondered about storing the excess wind energy in to something like gravitational potential energy? Eg topping up a dam and then later on, to realise it, using hydroelectric.

Or doing the equivalent with tidal energy.

Batteries do work and scale but really for short term storage (24hr) and grid balancing.

Using excess renewable energy to generate hydrogen or synthetic fuels and then store for longer term energy storage. UK doesn't have big enough mountains for gravity based storage options unlike Switzerland.

As for gas storage it was deemed to be not worth investing in by the markets and government.

Effective pumped hydro storage (PHS) doesn't rely on Swiss-sized mountains. If it did there would be no existing PHS is Australia and none planned. Yet it certainly does exist here and more is planned (and not merely pipe-dream stuff, e.g. Snowy 2.0 is under construction).

OTOH, the UK is constrained by its land area cf. its population, altho' suitable sites may nevertheless exist.

Scotland has plenty of capacity for more hydro schemes as mentioned above however the cost of exporting electricity via the National Grid is exorbitant and makes many schemes unprofitable. It charges more for Scottish renewable generators to access and export electricity than anywhere else in the UK. The National Grid was privatised in 1990 by Thatcher's Tory Gov and is now primarily owned by banks and venture capitalists like Macquarie, CIC, Qatar, etc. Any wonder why they are charging more for renewable generators to enter the grid?

[dpedin]

See https://www.renewableuk.com/news/566795 ... mports.htm for info

[GogLais]

I’m reading in the ST about France’s problem with its nuclear reactors - cracked pipes, at one stage nearly half were off-line. I knew France was very nuclear but I hadn’t realised they had 56 reactors.
Made me think of decommissioning and long-term storage of waste, is there a monster French Sellafield somewhere?