The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Jock42]

I would like to know why Kinghorn stayed on. Throwing up on the pitch is never a good sign, and after that he just did not look like he wanted to be there. Losing focus like that is an old failing of his, but in this case at least there was some excuse if he was unwell.

I never noticed that? Head injury?

[weegie01]

I would like to know why Kinghorn stayed on. Throwing up on the pitch is never a good sign, and after that he just did not look like he wanted to be there. Losing focus like that is an old failing of his, but in this case at least there was some excuse if he was unwell.

I never noticed that? Head injury?

No idea. My son was at the game with a pal using my ticket and he said he just started throwing up as he walked back to his position. The commentators did mention hearing Kinghorn on the refs mic saying he was unwell / ill.

[I like neeps]

Steyn ahead of the kick for that try, looked a forward pass for one of the others. Sam Grove White making pish up in the second half. That being said Edinburgh were shite in the second half. Falling off tackles, set piece gone to hell, no bite, no dog, no aggression, no getting in Glasgow’s faces.

I don’t know what Blair is doing at half time but it’s repeatedly not working. I’m getting more and more worried that he’s reintroducing the culture that Cockerill got rid of.

Cockers got rid of... And then introduced a different type of toxic culture that Blair got rid of.

No point if he’s putting back the holding pen for internationals that was there before, is there?

No true, Edinburgh should get back to still not winning anything, still losing winnable big games (Munster QF) and alienating the squad. Cockers last year his culture was gone the players had given up on him. Say what you want, he had to go and at the end his culture wasn't there.

The issue with being a holding pen for internationals is on the international coach. If players aren't in form, Townsend shouldn't pick him. He's become known for not picking players in form so perhaps Gilchrist, Duhan and co shouldn't be starting.

[Biffer]

Cockers got rid of... And then introduced a different type of toxic culture that Blair got rid of.

No point if he’s putting back the holding pen for internationals that was there before, is there?

No true, Edinburgh should get back to still not winning anything, still losing winnable big games (Munster QF) and alienating the squad. Cockers last year his culture was gone the players had given up on him. Say what you want, he had to go and at the end his culture wasn't there.

The issue with being a holding pen for internationals is on the international coach. If players aren't in form, Townsend shouldn't pick him. He's become known for not picking players in form so perhaps Gilchrist, Duhan and co shouldn't be starting.

I don’t in any way want Cockerill back, and I’ve never said I do. What I don’t want is the culture we had before he took over returning, which had been there for a long time, including when Blair was a player.

Those aren’t the only two cultures available, you realise that yeah?

[I like neeps]

No point if he’s putting back the holding pen for internationals that was there before, is there?

No true, Edinburgh should get back to still not winning anything, still losing winnable big games (Munster QF) and alienating the squad. Cockers last year his culture was gone the players had given up on him. Say what you want, he had to go and at the end his culture wasn't there.

The issue with being a holding pen for internationals is on the international coach. If players aren't in form, Townsend shouldn't pick him. He's become known for not picking players in form so perhaps Gilchrist, Duhan and co shouldn't be starting.

I don’t in any way want Cockerill back, and I’ve never said I do. What I don’t want is the culture we had before he took over returning, which had been there for a long time, including when Blair was a player.

Those aren’t the only two cultures available, you realise that yeah?

Yes, do you? Because Blair did have a new culture last year which you ignored in your first point.

I think it's still there too, on comms they said Edinburgh had the second most 22 entries behind Leinster in the URC. The finishing has gone which reflects I think a down year from Kinghorn, Duhan, Bennett, Vellacott and Bofelli/Graham missing a lot of time as well as teams having more tape of them.

Defence without Kitty is a concern too. I'm still not 100% convinced Lawrie is a good enough forwards coach without having a forwards dominated HC like Cockers there to lead it.

[Biffer]

Blair has said he’s not getting the right performances out of his players.

I’m challenging myself because I’m clearly not getting the best out of the players at the moment, whether that’s individually or as a team. I need to look at what I’m doing and find a way out of this.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/struggli ... admission/

[Jock42]

Certainly talls like a good leader. It's refreshing to see honesty in a coach. His interview on the rugby pod last year was very good.

[SaintK]

Certainly talls like a good leader. It's refreshing to see honesty in a coach. His interview on the rugby pod last year was very good.

How long will the powers that be, the fans and the players put up with his "honesty" if results aren't forthcoming

[Jock42]

I'd like to think they'd be more measured given that he's recognising there are issues and looking for ways to change that.

[I like neeps]

Congratulations to Ben Healy for signing for the Scottish National Team, club to be announced.

[Biffer]

I'd like to think they'd be more measured given that he's recognising there are issues and looking for ways to change that.

It’s whether or not he can find solutions that matters.

[GrahamWa]

Congratulations to Ben Healy for signing for the Scottish National Team, club to be announced.

Hearing Thompson to Edinburgh and Healy to Glasgow. I think he'll be behind Jordan on recent form at Glasgow.

[Tichtheid]

Congratulations to Ben Healy for signing for the Scottish National Team, club to be announced.

Hearing Thompson to Edinburgh and Healy to Glasgow. I think he'll be behind Jordan on recent form at Glasgow.

Where are you hearing that?

[GrahamWa]

Congratulations to Ben Healy for signing for the Scottish National Team, club to be announced.

Hearing Thompson to Edinburgh and Healy to Glasgow. I think he'll be behind Jordan on recent form at Glasgow.

Where are you hearing that?

Friend of a friend that is close to Ross Thompson. But also

[weegie01]

Hearing Thompson to Edinburgh and Healy to Glasgow. I think he'll be behind Jordan on recent form at Glasgow.

TJ is not SQ for another two years, so bringing in an SQ player (especially at anything like the money Healy is supposed to be on) then not playing him ahead of TJ would be surprising.

[Tichtheid]

The Thompson to Edinburgh doesn't make any sense to me, unless they are thinking that he's not going to be anywhere near the test team for a while.

If that is the case it would mean Savala and Thompson there all season long and covering the second seat behind Kinghorn, maybe with vdWalt as well, but the rumour with him was that he is offski at the end of the season.

If Healy is put straight into the test squad it means, most likely, that Hastings drops down a peg because of Kinghorn's versatility.

[I like neeps]

The Thompson to Edinburgh doesn't make any sense to me, unless they are thinking that he's not going to be anywhere near the test team for a while.

If that is the case it would mean Savala and Thompson there all season long and covering the second seat behind Kinghorn, maybe with vdWalt as well, but the rumour with him was that he is offski at the end of the season.

If Healy is put straight into the test squad it means, most likely, that Hastings drops down a peg because of Kinghorn's versatility.

I think it means with an eye to 2027 we have Kinghorn, Healy and Hastings for the 10 shirt which is good depth. Ideal if we also get Fin Smith but no guarantees there.

Thompson might just want to go to Edinburgh? He's from Edinburgh and he was only ever at Glasgow as he was studying law at Glasgow University as well as being an academy player. I presume he's graduated now and might just want to play for his club?

I'd also think it's a comment on Savala and not Thompson. Mike Blair sticking with a clearly ill and ineffective Kinghorn in the 1872 after a pretty poor game by Savala the week before I think says something. Also Glasgow have Richie Simpson training with them who was great in the S6 and is young.

[Camroc2]

Apols if posted already.

https://www.the42.ie/ben-healy-6-595999 ... &fs=e&s=cl

[Soapy]

The Thompson to Edinburgh doesn't make any sense to me, unless they are thinking that he's not going to be anywhere near the test team for a while.

If that is the case it would mean Savala and Thompson there all season long and covering the second seat behind Kinghorn, maybe with vdWalt as well, but the rumour with him was that he is offski at the end of the season.

If Healy is put straight into the test squad it means, most likely, that Hastings drops down a peg because of Kinghorn's versatility.

I think it means with an eye to 2027 we have Kinghorn, Healy and Hastings for the 10 shirt which is good depth. Ideal if we also get Fin Smith but no guarantees there.

Thompson might just want to go to Edinburgh? He's from Edinburgh and he was only ever at Glasgow as he was studying law at Glasgow University as well as being an academy player. I presume he's graduated now and might just want to play for his club?

I'd also think it's a comment on Savala and not Thompson. Mike Blair sticking with a clearly ill and ineffective Kinghorn in the 1872 after a pretty poor game by Savala the week before I think says something. Also Glasgow have Richie Simpson training with them who was great in the S6 and is young.

My view is that Thompson to Edinburgh would reflect that Thompson is no more than a capable club level player who
can fill a gap when needed.

[Yr Alban]

There was a bit in the article I saw saying Healy has been promised he’ll be straight into the Scotland squad. If he does commit, he’ll be straight in all right - to get him capped and tied down. After that he might be straight back out again. He’d have to compete for the #2 slot with Hastings and Kinghorn.

[Dogbert]

Looks more and more likely that Healy is Edinburgh bound (which is good news for Glasgow )

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-un ... on-3973125

Lets face it Edinburgh have the greater need of a 10 than Glasgow

For those who say that Thomson would want to play for 'his' club

Remember whatThomson siad when he signed his Glasgow contract " “My time in the academy has made me realise just how much I want to play for Glasgow and it’s something I’ve chased for the last few years. It was a no-brainer for me when the offer came through.My main focus for me is to continue trying to develop my game and Warriors is just the place to do that."

Thomson has only ever played for West coast clubs ( Hawks/ Bulls /Warriors )

He is highly appreciated by Warriors players / Coaches / Fans - he won both the Young player & Player of the 2021 season at Warriors
Probably more importantly he is also working with both Horne & Murchie at Warriors - who coached him through his time at Bulls and Hawks .

He's also with team on which appear to be on an upper trajectory, not sure how appealing going to a team that appear to be flatlining would be.

If Healy is on his way to the capital city , maybe the SRU could release some funding to allow warriors to sign up Jack Mann ( he would certainly be a lot cheaper than Duhan or Healy )

[I like neeps]

Looks more and more likely that Healy is Edinburgh bound (which is good news for Glasgow )

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-un ... on-3973125

Lets face it Edinburgh have the greater need of a 10 than Glasgow

For those who say that Thomson would want to play for 'his' club

Remember whatThomson siad when he signed his Glasgow contract " “My time in the academy has made me realise just how much I want to play for Glasgow and it’s something I’ve chased for the last few years. It was a no-brainer for me when the offer came through.My main focus for me is to continue trying to develop my game and Warriors is just the place to do that."

Thomson has only ever played for West coast clubs ( Hawks/ Bulls /Warriors )

He is highly appreciated by Warriors players / Coaches / Fans - he won both the Young player & Player of the 2021 season at Warriors
Probably more importantly he is also working with both Horne & Murchie at Warriors - who coached him through his time at Bulls and Hawks .

He's also with team on which appear to be on an upper trajectory, not sure how appealing going to a team that appear to be flatlining would be.

If Healy is on his way to the capital city , maybe the SRU could release some funding to allow warriors to sign up Jack Mann ( he would certainly be a lot cheaper than Duhan or Healy )

I really don't think that press release (which are all nonsense anyway they're pure PR fluff) says he's not an Edinburgh fan. It was just a possibility.

It's bad squad planning for Healy to be guaranteed (and from what's coming out of Ireland it sounds like he's been guaranteed starter money at least) at Edinburgh as what happens with Kinghorn? He's flawed by the best 10 at either pro club. He's also not as good as Bof, Graham and Duhan in the back 3. Are one of them leaving and he gets moved back I wonder?

[Tichtheid]

It's bad squad planning for Healy to be guaranteed (and from what's coming out of Ireland it sounds like he's been guaranteed starter money at least) at Edinburgh as what happens with Kinghorn? He's flawed by the best 10 at either pro club. He's also not as good as Bof, Graham and Duhan in the back 3. Are one of them leaving and he gets moved back I wonder?

Boff just signed on for another two years, Duhan signed a "long term contract" just recently and Graham was also signed for what was thought to be at least three years in 2021.

Goosen is the only one we don't know the terms of the contract, it could be just the one year as was the case with Moyano, but I think he'll only move on if the injuries continue or if cash is needed elsewhere.
Healy will be second choice at Edinburgh at best.

I haven't seen either 1872 game yet, I just didn't have the time due to family stuff, but if Savala was unconvincing in the first one it will be his worst game this season.
He's been pretty decent up to now.

[I like neeps]

It's bad squad planning for Healy to be guaranteed (and from what's coming out of Ireland it sounds like he's been guaranteed starter money at least) at Edinburgh as what happens with Kinghorn? He's flawed by the best 10 at either pro club. He's also not as good as Bof, Graham and Duhan in the back 3. Are one of them leaving and he gets moved back I wonder?

Boff just signed on for another two years, Duhan signed a "long term contract" just recently and Graham was also signed for what was thought to be at least three years in 2021.

Goosen is the only one we don't know the terms of the contract, it could be just the one year as was the case with Moyano, but I think he'll only move on if the injuries continue or if cash is needed elsewhere.
Healy will be second choice at Edinburgh at best.

I haven't seen either 1872 game yet, I just didn't have the time due to family stuff, but if Savala was unconvincing in the first one it will be his worst game this season.
He's been pretty decent up to now.

Yeah I think Goosen could maybe be off but if he's got a longer contract and I suspect he does as he was doing well in NZ - a regular super rugby try scorer - I doubt it's a one year deal so he's need to find a club.

I'd have thought Healy was second choice but if he's guaranteed a cap and on the money camroc (who has been correct throughout) floated it suggests he isn't second choice...

[dpedin]

It's bad squad planning for Healy to be guaranteed (and from what's coming out of Ireland it sounds like he's been guaranteed starter money at least) at Edinburgh as what happens with Kinghorn? He's flawed by the best 10 at either pro club. He's also not as good as Bof, Graham and Duhan in the back 3. Are one of them leaving and he gets moved back I wonder?

Boff just signed on for another two years, Duhan signed a "long term contract" just recently and Graham was also signed for what was thought to be at least three years in 2021.

Goosen is the only one we don't know the terms of the contract, it could be just the one year as was the case with Moyano, but I think he'll only move on if the injuries continue or if cash is needed elsewhere.
Healy will be second choice at Edinburgh at best.

I haven't seen either 1872 game yet, I just didn't have the time due to family stuff, but if Savala was unconvincing in the first one it will be his worst game this season.
He's been pretty decent up to now.

Yeah I think Goosen could maybe be off but if he's got a longer contract and I suspect he does as he was doing well in NZ - a regular super rugby try scorer - I doubt it's a one year deal so he's need to find a club.

I'd have thought Healy was second choice but if he's guaranteed a cap and on the money camroc (who has been correct throughout) floated it suggests he isn't second choice...

Given it is a RWC year there will be lots of international calls on players plus some will be wrapped up in cotton wool in run up etc so having three decent 10s on the books for Embra - Kinghorn, Savala and Healy - isn't a bad idea TBH. I suspect VdW will be off at the end of the season. I agree Savala has looked good when he has played. Having Healy on the books provides us with a range of options in what is going to be a busy 23-24 season. We can take stock at the end of next season where we stand with the 10 position.

[PornDog]

https://www.the42.ie/ben-healy-edinburg ... 5-Jan2023/

Edinburgh confirm interest in signing 'quality' Ben Healy from Munster

EDINBURGH HEAD COACH Mike Blair has confirmed the club’s interest in signing Munster out-half Ben Healy.

Healy has struggled to nail down a regular place in the Munster squad this season, but came off the bench and scored 10 points to win their New Year’s Day interpro against Ulster.

The 23-year-old’s future with the province has been the subject of renewed speculation of late, with Munster head coach Graham Rowntree conceding that they may lose him when his contract expires at the end of the season.

Edinburgh have now publicly confirmed their interest in the Tipperary native, who is eligible to play international rugby for Scotland through his mother.

“We have an interest in him,” Blair said, as reported by The Scotsman.

“We are well aware Ben is out of contract. We think he’s a quality player and realise he is Scottish qualified, so we’re having conversations with lots of people.”

[GrahamWa]

Confirmed to Edinburgh - 2 year deal

[Biffer]

Confirmed for Edinburgh

[westport]

Lots of Muster fans gutted to see him go.

Oh dear that is a shame

[GrahamWa]

I'm glad my rumour mill was unfounded. Unless Glasgow are getting Kinghorn in a revenge attack.

[Ludeen]

Massive mistake by Munster & IRFU , wtf are they thinking better than carbery .gutted.

[Camroc2]

Massive mistake by Munster & IRFU , wtf are they thinking better than carbery .gutted.

Healy is currently behind Carbery and Crowley at Munster, Sexton and both Byrnes at Leinster, and Carthy at Connacht. That puts him at 7th in the pecking order at best, and on a par with the likes of Billy Burns, in Munster and IRFU eyes. Whilst I'm sorry to see him go, he is not near the international Irish team, and has allegedly been more or less promised a Scottish cap. Something he was eligible for since the day he was born, through his Granny.

At the end of the day, players have to look out for themselves, and if Healy didn't feature in Rowntrees or Farrells plans he wasn't going to be kept long at Munster anyway. Even though losing a player developed in Ireland to another country hurts, God knows Ireland have used the system to their advantage in the past, and all you can do is wish Healy good luck.

[Tichtheid]

he is not near the international Irish team, and has allegedly been more or less promised a Scottish cap. Something he was eligible for since the day he was born, through his Granny.

I don't see how this could possibly be true without the proviso that he'd have to earn it, show he is the better player than Hastings and Kinghorn, because it's a lot to say he's better than Russell.

He will probably be called into the wider squad to begin with and then see how he goes. Time is against him for the RWC, but there will be warm up matches before the teams all head off to France.

However if he doesn't play for Munster, as is being mooted on their forum, it's difficult to see how he can be picked for Scotland

[Camroc2]

he is not near the international Irish team, and has allegedly been more or less promised a Scottish cap. Something he was eligible for since the day he was born, through his Granny.

I don't see how this could possibly be true without the proviso that he'd have to earn it, show he is the better player than Hastings and Kinghorn, because it's a lot to say he's better than Russell.

He will probably be called into the wider squad to begin with and then see how he goes. Time is against him for the RWC, but there will be warm up matches before the teams all head off to France.

However if he doesn't play for Munster, as is being mooted on their forum, it's difficult to see how he can be picked for Scotland

Accepting all that, when was the last time a Scottish qualified 10 playing for Edinburgh didn't get capped ?

PS So long as Munster are paying his wages he'll get time on the pitch with Munster, particularly as Carberys minutes will be managed.

[dpedin]

Different coaches have different views on players and their ability and their fit with their game plans. It is not unusual for a player to not be rated in one team to move and then become a top player with another. A change of scene, different coach, injuries and how they are treated, more settled home life etc all play a big part in how a player develops and performs. Vellacot for example wasn't exactly first choice at Gloucester or Wasps yet has settled in well at Edinburgh and has become a key player for us. Why did Racing 92 allow Bofelli to move on after playing only 4 games for them? Both have resigned and seem very happy here and it shows. I am not that fussed about how Healy is rated by Munster/Ireland he is obviously a decent player and it's more important that both Blair and Townsend think there is something there that they can build on and utilise at Edinburgh and possibly Scotland.

[Ludeen]

Massive mistake by Munster & IRFU , wtf are they thinking better than carbery .gutted.

Healy is currently behind Carbery and Crowley at Munster, Sexton and both Byrnes at Leinster, and Carthy at Connacht. That puts him at 7th in the pecking order at best, and on a par with the likes of Billy Burns, in Munster and IRFU eyes. Whilst I'm sorry to see him go, he is not near the international Irish team, and has allegedly been more or less promised a Scottish cap. Something he was eligible for since the day he was born, through his Granny.

At the end of the day, players have to look out for themselves, and if Healy didn't feature in Rowntrees or Farrells plans he wasn't going to be kept long at Munster anyway. Even though losing a player developed in Ireland to another country hurts, God knows Ireland have used the system to their advantage in the past, and all you can do is wish Healy good luck.

I think he's only behind carbery and crowley because of the system in Munster, I also think he could shine in a new setup. I d no way put him behind carty or the Byrnes to be honest, but anyhow he's gone and wish him well.

[I like neeps]

he is not near the international Irish team, and has allegedly been more or less promised a Scottish cap. Something he was eligible for since the day he was born, through his Granny.

I don't see how this could possibly be true without the proviso that he'd have to earn it, show he is the better player than Hastings and Kinghorn, because it's a lot to say he's better than Russell.

He will probably be called into the wider squad to begin with and then see how he goes. Time is against him for the RWC, but there will be warm up matches before the teams all head off to France.

However if he doesn't play for Munster, as is being mooted on their forum, it's difficult to see how he can be picked for Scotland

Accepting all that, when was the last time a Scottish qualified 10 playing for Edinburgh didn't get capped ?

PS So long as Munster are paying his wages he'll get time on the pitch with Munster, particularly as Carberys minutes will be managed.

I'd argue that Savala is a 10 at Edinburgh who is SQ and hasn't been capped but then I remember Scotland capping Jaco Van Der Walt in the final game of his eligiblity window before it went to five years and withdraw that argument.

I'd be amazed if Healy signed for Edinburgh without a word from Townsend whether that word is you will be capped or
I really like your game nod nod wink wink is academic.

[Big D]

he is not near the international Irish team, and has allegedly been more or less promised a Scottish cap. Something he was eligible for since the day he was born, through his Granny.

I don't see how this could possibly be true without the proviso that he'd have to earn it, show he is the better player than Hastings and Kinghorn, because it's a lot to say he's better than Russell.

He will probably be called into the wider squad to begin with and then see how he goes. Time is against him for the RWC, but there will be warm up matches before the teams all head off to France.

However if he doesn't play for Munster, as is being mooted on their forum, it's difficult to see how he can be picked for Scotland

They cap loads in the world cup warm ups. Blake got a cap for nothing IIRC. Easy to promise a cap when including including those games.

[Biffer]

he is not near the international Irish team, and has allegedly been more or less promised a Scottish cap. Something he was eligible for since the day he was born, through his Granny.

I don't see how this could possibly be true without the proviso that he'd have to earn it, show he is the better player than Hastings and Kinghorn, because it's a lot to say he's better than Russell.

He will probably be called into the wider squad to begin with and then see how he goes. Time is against him for the RWC, but there will be warm up matches before the teams all head off to France.

However if he doesn't play for Munster, as is being mooted on their forum, it's difficult to see how he can be picked for Scotland

Accepting all that, when was the last time a Scottish qualified 10 playing for Edinburgh didn't get capped ?

PS So long as Munster are paying his wages he'll get time on the pitch with Munster, particularly as Carberys minutes will be managed.

Nathan Chamberlain.

[Tichtheid]

I don't see how this could possibly be true without the proviso that he'd have to earn it, show he is the better player than Hastings and Kinghorn, because it's a lot to say he's better than Russell.

He will probably be called into the wider squad to begin with and then see how he goes. Time is against him for the RWC, but there will be warm up matches before the teams all head off to France.

However if he doesn't play for Munster, as is being mooted on their forum, it's difficult to see how he can be picked for Scotland

Accepting all that, when was the last time a Scottish qualified 10 playing for Edinburgh didn't get capped ?

PS So long as Munster are paying his wages he'll get time on the pitch with Munster, particularly as Carberys minutes will be managed.

Nathan Chamberlain.

Harry Leonard, Jade Te Rure (or Te Ruaridh ), the laddie from rugby league who came up for half a season.