The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Biffer]

Especially as Edinburgh had won four of the previous five 1872 Cups before this year. Awfully convenient not to care about something they weren’t winning.

[Dogbert]

I support both of the pro teams, but as an Edinburgh boy I think it’s a bit rich for Glasgow to behave as if they have their sights on loftier ambitions than the derby games. Yes, you’ve played a few finals and even won one of them, which I was delighted about. But right now you’re pretty much exactly where Edinburgh are - mid table.

And that's one of the problems with Scottish Rugby if you think that the pinacle is the local Derby.

Both Glasgow ( and Edinburgh ) should be looking at titles as being the pinnacle , in the same way as winning the 6 nations should be the pinnacle , rather than just beating England

[Dogbert]

Oh Don't get me wrong - its always good to beat the noisy East Coast Neighbours - and the points for the league are always important.

But being the most important game in the calender , well that all depends on the season

For the years that Glasgow have been in Finals - then the finals take precedence , even some of the European Games would take precedence

Look at the 2016-17 European Champions Cup Quarter Final against Saracens where over 6000 Glasgow fans made the journey Allianz Park, or even the Glasgow / Tiger games

Sure you get lots of Supporters travel to MurrayField than to Galway , or Llanelli - Murrayfield is a damn site easier to get to ( and the Xmas / New Year timings , also make it easier)

To me , and to a lot of other Glasgow Season ticket holders I speak to, the upcoming Stomers game is more important - its a yard stick to measure Glasgows improvement. To be the best you need to beat the Stormers / Leinsters of the world . Thats where we find out where you are .
If I was a coach picking a Scottish team , if a player has an outstanding performance against Leinster at RDS , and has a similar performance agianst Edinburgh at Murrayfield - Which provides greater insight ?

The Edinburgh games, hence why every Scotland coach and player talks it up as a selection battle. It's no longer an exact science but you're playing against your competition for the shirt in a lot of cases. If you play better than them it means a lot from a Scotland point of view.

Good performances against Leinster, Munster etc are obviously important but they need to be backed up. Matt Fagerson outplaying both Crosbie and Ritchie (twice) is what will stick in Toonie's mind.

Simply not true this year - go back and look at the team s that played each other at Murrayfield, only about 3 positions would be match ups between Scottish players who would be in the Scotland team

[Slick]

I don't agree with that regarding his defence, maybe at 13 where reading seems to be everything because you don't have the touchline as an extra defender like you do on the wing and you have so much space to cover, Kinghorn isn't looking at the game in the same way that perhaps Chris Harris is, but I don't see the same problem at 12

Few tackle like Wilkinson did, but Kinghorn takes his man far more often than not, and even Wilkinson got knocked on his arse from time to time

We’re not going to agree on this, I think his defence is poor. He was dreadful in defence against Glasgow last week.

I haven't seen that game, wasn't he chucking his guts up on the pitch?

Another point about having someone of his pace playing 13, like Huw Jones in fact, is that because of the wide open spaces that occur between 13 and the wings is that having someone like him, and Bennett for that matter, is a potent attacking weapon.

I'm not going to push the 13 thing, I don't think Kinghorn reads the game defensively, it's not his strength by a long chalk, but I think his attacking abilities sway the balance

No one will be surprised to hear I agree with Biffer on this, his defence is really poor for a top level player, both in execution and decision making, he would get murdered in the centre, either one. Also, Edinburgh do frequently move him out of the 10 channel into the back field when defending- although this may also be partly to get him on the ball in open field

[dkm57]

Watched the Munster game with more attention than usual last night especially Healy at 10. Impressed, maybe he just had good game but lightning fast hands, solid tackling, deft kicking, 90% kicking from tee.

[I like neeps]

Oh Don't get me wrong - its always good to beat the noisy East Coast Neighbours - and the points for the league are always important.

But being the most important game in the calender , well that all depends on the season

For the years that Glasgow have been in Finals - then the finals take precedence , even some of the European Games would take precedence

Look at the 2016-17 European Champions Cup Quarter Final against Saracens where over 6000 Glasgow fans made the journey Allianz Park, or even the Glasgow / Tiger games

Sure you get lots of Supporters travel to MurrayField than to Galway , or Llanelli - Murrayfield is a damn site easier to get to ( and the Xmas / New Year timings , also make it easier)

To me , and to a lot of other Glasgow Season ticket holders I speak to, the upcoming Stomers game is more important - its a yard stick to measure Glasgows improvement. To be the best you need to beat the Stormers / Leinsters of the world . Thats where we find out where you are .
If I was a coach picking a Scottish team , if a player has an outstanding performance against Leinster at RDS , and has a similar performance agianst Edinburgh at Murrayfield - Which provides greater insight ?

The Edinburgh games, hence why every Scotland coach and player talks it up as a selection battle. It's no longer an exact science but you're playing against your competition for the shirt in a lot of cases. If you play better than them it means a lot from a Scotland point of view.

Good performances against Leinster, Munster etc are obviously important but they need to be backed up. Matt Fagerson outplaying both Crosbie and Ritchie (twice) is what will stick in Toonie's mind.

Simply not true this year - go back and look at the team s that played each other at Murrayfield, only about 3 positions would be match ups between Scottish players who would be in the Scotland team

One winger, both centres, 9s, LH prop, second row, flank, you could make the argument if Harry Paterson dominated and played better than Smith he'd have a shout of the squad with injuries. If Tom Jordan was Scottish qualified him running the show both games would've seen him in the squad, it's that type of match.

I think maybe it means a bit more to Edinburgh but I'd find it odd fans are more excited to watch Leinster's B team or a stormers team they don't really ever watch play. I get a few years back when Ulster/Munster had real battles with Glasgow but even that's not really the case anymore.

[Simian]

The Edinburgh games, hence why every Scotland coach and player talks it up as a selection battle. It's no longer an exact science but you're playing against your competition for the shirt in a lot of cases. If you play better than them it means a lot from a Scotland point of view.

Good performances against Leinster, Munster etc are obviously important but they need to be backed up. Matt Fagerson outplaying both Crosbie and Ritchie (twice) is what will stick in Toonie's mind.

Simply not true this year - go back and look at the team s that played each other at Murrayfield, only about 3 positions would be match ups between Scottish players who would be in the Scotland team

One winger, both centres, 9s, LH prop, second row, flank, you could make the argument if Harry Paterson dominated and played better than Smith he'd have a shout of the squad with injuries. If Tom Jordan was Scottish qualified him running the show both games would've seen him in the squad, it's that type of match.

I think maybe it means a bit more to Edinburgh but I'd find it odd fans are more excited to watch Leinster's B team or a stormers team they don't really ever watch play. I get a few years back when Ulster/Munster had real battles with Glasgow but even that's not really the case anymore.

I reckon your last paragraph probably gets closest to the crux of the matter.

If you were too ask Glasgow fans to list the nights where there was an incredible atmosphere at Scotstoun, I suspect Edinburgh games would feature for very few.

By contrast, the 1872 games were often the only time there was any atmosphere at all at Murrayfield (just because it's so huge).

So I suspect it says a lot more about where the games are played than much else, tbh. Be interesting to see if things start to change a bit now that Edinburgh are playing their other games in a ground where you get a lot more atmosphere.

[Dogbert]

On that basis then , looking at both 1872 gaames , if the choice is between Steyn amd van der Merwe, then its Steyn all the way

[Biffer]

Simply not true this year - go back and look at the team s that played each other at Murrayfield, only about 3 positions would be match ups between Scottish players who would be in the Scotland team

One winger, both centres, 9s, LH prop, second row, flank, you could make the argument if Harry Paterson dominated and played better than Smith he'd have a shout of the squad with injuries. If Tom Jordan was Scottish qualified him running the show both games would've seen him in the squad, it's that type of match.

I think maybe it means a bit more to Edinburgh but I'd find it odd fans are more excited to watch Leinster's B team or a stormers team they don't really ever watch play. I get a few years back when Ulster/Munster had real battles with Glasgow but even that's not really the case anymore.

I reckon your last paragraph probably gets closest to the crux of the matter.

If you were too ask Glasgow fans to list the nights where there was an incredible atmosphere at Scotstoun, I suspect Edinburgh games would feature for very few.

By contrast, the 1872 games were often the only time there was any atmosphere at all at Murrayfield (just because it's so huge).

So I suspect it says a lot more about where the games are played than much else, tbh. Be interesting to see if things start to change a bit now that Edinburgh are playing their other games in a ground where you get a lot more atmosphere.

Atmosphere has definitely changed since we moved to the DAM. Much better atmosphere in there when it’s full.

[I like neeps]

On that basis then , looking at both 1872 gaames , if the choice is between Steyn amd van der Merwe, then its Steyn all the way

Steyn could score 10 tries against Stormers and VdM and Graham are still the wingers for Scotland if fit though. However, with Graham injured Steyn outplaying VdM the door is open to take Graham's spot.

Look at Crosbie - having a magnificent season, his competition is Fagerson. Crosbie didn't lay a finger on him, and the chance is gone. Look at Dean and Bennett - getting momentum for a year and then poof McDowell and Tuipolotu walk it. R Gray outplayed Skinner and GG.

[Slick]

This is making my eyes bleed a bit

[Tichtheid]

This is making my eyes bleed a bit

They look like their confidence is gone, there's no cohesion, it's like they only just met this week.

Mark Bennett gets a pass mark, as do the young laddies Patterson and Blain, but the rest of them are experienced players now.

[I like neeps]

How Angus Williams got to be a starting TH prop for a pro club needs an enquiry.

[Big D]

That's a shambles try to lose. No need for Venter to hit that maul.

[I like neeps]

That's a shambles try to lose. No need for Venter to hit that maul.

Incredible - the ref was calling use it! I rated him very highly but today has been an absolute horror show for him. Dropping the ball, can't scrum, stupidly gives up a try. A 0/10 performance.

And again what the duck is he up to?! Get him off the pitch Mike.

[Big D]

On that basis then , looking at both 1872 gaames , if the choice is between Steyn amd van der Merwe, then its Steyn all the way

Steyn could score 10 tries against Stormers and VdM and Graham are still the wingers for Scotland if fit though. However, with Graham injured Steyn outplaying VdM the door is open to take Graham's spot.

Look at Crosbie - having a magnificent season, his competition is Fagerson. Crosbie didn't lay a finger on him, and the chance is gone. Look at Dean and Bennett - getting momentum for a year and then poof McDowell and Tuipolotu walk it. R Gray outplayed Skinner and GG.

International coaches still put a lot of faith in players who have done it for then unless the club form falls way off a cliff.

Fagerson, Van Der Merwe and Tuipolotu was always going to start in the first game of the 6N for Townsend. The festive games may have cost players squad positions but Townsends starting XV will be pretty settled except injuries.

[Slick]

This is making my eyes bleed a bit

They look like their confidence is gone, there's no cohesion, it's like they only just met this week.

Mark Bennett gets a pass mark, as do the young laddies Patterson and Blain, but the rest of them are experienced players now.

Spot on, they are doing things they just wouldn’t have done at the start of the season

[Slick]

I think I’m about 5 mins behind everyone here but they need to move BK to 10 sharpish, Savala miles off it today and something needs to happen

[OomStruisbaai]

That should have been a try.

[OomStruisbaai]

Venter need to speak afrikaans to the ref

[Jock42]

I think I’m about 5 mins behind everyone here but they need to move BK to 10 sharpish, Savala miles off it today and something needs to happen

I think he's been pish today, back to not concentrating

[Tichtheid]

The ref has been good but she has ignored hands on the deck before the jackal all afternoon

[Big D]

Pathetic really.

[OomStruisbaai]

That was a beautiful break

[I like neeps]

Paterson is too small for pro rugby. Two one on ones in three weeks now.

[Big D]

Very good finish from Harrison.

Still worry he's too small for pro rugby but he's still young.

[I like neeps]

de Bruin is also a pudding. If we're going to play crap tightheads let's play young Scottish crap tightheads.

Vellacott, Sykes, Mata have been awesome off the bench. As has Harrison - so glad Tom Cruse got so many minutes instead of him at no value to Scottish rugby.

[Tichtheid]

A decent team would have battered us.

We have a long way to go.

[Dogbert]

A game where the score doesn't tell the story

Still a five point bouns point win

[I like neeps]

Very good finish from Harrison.

Still worry he's too small for pro rugby but he's still young.

He's so powerful though.

[Tichtheid]

Our starting line up is Schooey, Rambo, Nel, Skinner, Gilchrist, Ritchie, Watson, Mata
Vellacott, Kinghorn, van der Merwe, Dean, Bennett, Boff

With the exception of Cherry, Harrison, Crosbie and Goosen, the other backups are a long way off.

Muncaster, Boyle, Sykes and Hodgson will get up to scratch and Haining can do a job. I hope Currie makes it and the academy lads still have a lot of time to get there, but we drop off a cliff when that starting team isn't heavily represented.

[Biffer]

Our starting line up is Schooey, Rambo, Nel, Skinner, Gilchrist, Ritchie, Watson, Mata
Vellacott, Kinghorn, van der Merwe, Dean, Bennett, Boff

With the exception of Cherry, Harrison, Crosbie and Goosen, the other backups are a long way off.

Muncaster, Boyle, Sykes and Hodgson will get up to scratch and Haining can do a job. I hope Currie makes it and the academy lads still have a lot of time to get there, but we drop off a cliff when that starting team isn't heavily represented.

Our starting XV appears to be missing a winger, presumably Graham

[Biffer]

de Bruin is also a pudding. If we're going to play crap tightheads let's play young Scottish crap tightheads.

Vellacott, Sykes, Mata have been awesome off the bench. As has Harrison - so glad Tom Cruse got so many minutes instead of him at no value to Scottish rugby.

Yeah, if we’re going to have props getting blasted in the scrum, let’s have some of our young lads learning something.

[Slick]

I think I’m about 5 mins behind everyone here but they need to move BK to 10 sharpish, Savala miles off it today and something needs to happen

I think he's been pish today, back to not concentrating

Which one?

[robmatic]

de Bruin is also a pudding. If we're going to play crap tightheads let's play young Scottish crap tightheads.

Vellacott, Sykes, Mata have been awesome off the bench. As has Harrison - so glad Tom Cruse got so many minutes instead of him at no value to Scottish rugby.

Yeah, if we’re going to have props getting blasted in the scrum, let’s have some of our young lads learning something.

We also have the option of not getting blasted in the scrum, by playing Atalifo, who despite being a pretty average journeyman is a better player than De Bruin.

[mos_eisely_]

I think I’m about 5 mins behind everyone here but they need to move BK to 10 sharpish, Savala miles off it today and something needs to happen

I think he's been pish today, back to not concentrating

Which one?

It's actually pathetic how little metres his kicks to touch made. Plus his poor chip in the early minutes of the second half which led to their first try.

[LenCohen]

I support both of the pro teams, but as an Edinburgh boy I think it’s a bit rich for Glasgow to behave as if they have their sights on loftier ambitions than the derby games. Yes, you’ve played a few finals and even won one of them, which I was delighted about. But right now you’re pretty much exactly where Edinburgh are - mid table.

And that's one of the problems with Scottish Rugby if you think that the pinacle is the local Derby.

Both Glasgow ( and Edinburgh ) should be looking at titles as being the pinnacle , in the same way as winning the 6 nations should be the pinnacle , rather than just beating England

Played for Edinburgh for years, can't say anyone got particularly excited about Glasgow games. Big European games and playing Munster, Leinster or (back then) the Ospreys were the logical high points of the season

[LenCohen]

How Angus Williams got to be a starting TH prop for a pro club needs an enquiry.

He gets paid 30k a year. There may be a correlation.

[Jock42]

I think I’m about 5 mins behind everyone here but they need to move BK to 10 sharpish, Savala miles off it today and something needs to happen

I think he's been pish today, back to not concentrating

Which one?

Kinghorn

[Slick]

I think he's been pish today, back to not concentrating

Which one?

It's actually pathetic how little metres his kicks to touch made. Plus his poor chip in the early minutes of the second half which led to their first try.

If we are talking about BK, I don’t have much of an issue with the length of his kicks to touch as long as he makes touch - missing a penalty to touch is approaching unforgivable.

The chip just seemed to be a symptom of a lack of confidence throughout the team. I think he had at least 3 opportunities to take his winger on on the outside, which with his pace should have been an option, but stepped inside and ran laterally instead. Anyway, seems a bit unfair to focus on him after that team performance