The Official English Rugby Thread

[ASMO]

Nowell showing his tortoise like pace to lose the race with Mitchell.

[Paddington Bear]

Says a lot that Nowell has looked noticeably average in an absolute pummelling

[sockwithaticket]

It's rare for Saints to be this on top at the scrum, but they've really not made much of it.

[petej]

Says a lot that Nowell has looked noticeably average in an absolute pummelling

Shouldn't be near the England team

[Ovals]

This is something of a manufactured argument. Is anyone saying it wasn’t a red? No. Is anyone saying he won’t cop a ban? Again, no. Was there such a hugh degree of danger to deserve a punitive ban? Very hard to argue for yes, Faz got caught upright because he wasn’t expecting a pick and go down the blindside and of course has more than a tendency to tackle like a league player as it is. 3 weeks would seem about right.

It's Owen Farrell, a player that managed to cop some of the blame for how poor England were in the 6Ns last year when he didn't play in any of the matches.

He boils other people's piss while he just carries on winning. And let's not forget, he's an immaculate pro off the pitch, no social media stuff, no scandal. He just keeps his head down and just works hard.

With multiple atrocious tackles, many of which have gone unpunished, probably a bit more relevant to any citing hearing than he’s not on fucking twitter

I'm no fan of Farrell and would be quite happy for him not to be available for England's 6N. He will cop a ban but the tackle was far from being a horrrific one - he was bent a fair bit from the waist, so there is a bit of mitigation - albeit the tackled player was always quite low. I doubt there'd have been anywhere near such an outcry were it not Farrell involved.

[SaintK]

It's Owen Farrell, a player that managed to cop some of the blame for how poor England were in the 6Ns last year when he didn't play in any of the matches.

He boils other people's piss while he just carries on winning. And let's not forget, he's an immaculate pro off the pitch, no social media stuff, no scandal. He just keeps his head down and just works hard.

With multiple atrocious tackles, many of which have gone unpunished, probably a bit more relevant to any citing hearing than he’s not on fucking twitter

I'm no fan of Farrell and would be quite happy for him not to be available for England's 6N. He will cop a ban but the tackle was far from being a horrrific one - he was bent a fair bit from the waist, so there is a bit of mitigation - albeit the tackled player was always quite low. I doubt there'd have been anywhere near such an outcry were it not Farrell involved.

Quite
He should get 6 weeks reduced to 3 if he agrees to attend a "tackle awareness" course.
Coleman of London Irish copped that for a far worse high tackle a couple of weeks back and having been sent off for a similar offence last season

[Hal Jordan]

Cowan-Dickie looks like he is going to miss the 6N.

Will we pick someone who can throw the ball in, then?

Faz will get a Martin Johnson ban, ending on 1st February, just to delight our Celtic friends.

[Paddington Bear]

Cowan-Dickie looks like he is going to miss the 6N.

Will we pick someone who can throw the ball in, then?

Faz will get a Martin Johnson ban, ending on 1st February, just to delight our Celtic friends.

LCD was shocking for England throughout 2022 and I’ve never been his biggest fan anyway. Would love to see McGuigan given a go, excellent technical hooker combined with a gain line threat.

[Kawazaki]

With multiple atrocious tackles, many of which have gone unpunished, probably a bit more relevant to any citing hearing than he’s not on fucking twitter

I'm no fan of Farrell and would be quite happy for him not to be available for England's 6N. He will cop a ban but the tackle was far from being a horrrific one - he was bent a fair bit from the waist, so there is a bit of mitigation - albeit the tackled player was always quite low. I doubt there'd have been anywhere near such an outcry were it not Farrell involved.

Quite
He should get 6 weeks reduced to 3 if he agrees to attend a "tackle awareness" course.
Coleman of London Irish copped that for a far worse high tackle a couple of weeks back and having been sent off for a similar offence last season

3 reduced to 2 maximum. He might only get a week off.

[SaintK]

I'm no fan of Farrell and would be quite happy for him not to be available for England's 6N. He will cop a ban but the tackle was far from being a horrrific one - he was bent a fair bit from the waist, so there is a bit of mitigation - albeit the tackled player was always quite low. I doubt there'd have been anywhere near such an outcry were it not Farrell involved.

Quite
He should get 6 weeks reduced to 3 if he agrees to attend a "tackle awareness" course.
Coleman of London Irish copped that for a far worse high tackle a couple of weeks back and having been sent off for a similar offence last season

3 reduced to 2 maximum. He might only get a week off.

That'll make a few heads explode

[sockwithaticket]

With multiple atrocious tackles, many of which have gone unpunished, probably a bit more relevant to any citing hearing than he’s not on fucking twitter

I'm no fan of Farrell and would be quite happy for him not to be available for England's 6N. He will cop a ban but the tackle was far from being a horrrific one - he was bent a fair bit from the waist, so there is a bit of mitigation - albeit the tackled player was always quite low. I doubt there'd have been anywhere near such an outcry were it not Farrell involved.

Quite
He should get 6 weeks reduced to 3 if he agrees to attend a "tackle awareness" course.
Coleman of London Irish copped that for a far worse high tackle a couple of weeks back and having been sent off for a similar offence last season

Afaik you only get the tackle course offer on a first offence. Certainly that was the case for Jacob Umaga, although he managed to commit the same offence mere weeks apart, so maybe that had a bearing. The tackle course is bollocks anyway. The players are full time professionals, they know how to tackle safely, they just choose not to. If a player goes on a course that's, on the face of it, a tacit admission that they're not being coached properly, in which case the club ought to be fined.

Coleman got 4 weeks, not 3. It looks like prior record knocks a week off the amount of mitigation that can be applied.

Not sure how they've deemed him not to be a repeat offender either, in the full written judgement they even acknowledge his red card for a similar offence in 2021. I really think it's daft that you can get a third of your ban taken off for admitting guilt and saying sorry on a subsequent similar incident. I'd also say they were wrong in judging his offence as mid-level. Fuck knows what top end looks like if that was only mid.

[Brazil]

Another decent win for Sale.

[Margin__Walker]

Much needed (actually very comfortable) win for LI against Bristol in the rain today.

Boy, Bristol were poor though. Despite the long contract, there comes a point where the pressure will come on for Lam if that carries on. It's not like they couldn't afford to pay him out if they had to.

[JM2K6]

Quins suffering from two major issues right now. First is the lack of a solid pack - too many absentees and some dubious backup options means the back 5 in particular are not currently up to it - and the second is a drop off in form for both Esterhuizen and Marchant, with at least one obvious alternative broken.

Absentee list is not ideal. Ignoring Marler getting himself banned, it's Collier, Lewies (c), Lamb, Evans, Kenningham, Chisholm, Steele, Smith, Northmore, Lynagh, Green. Going to have to shuffle the deckchairs a bit more, I'd be surprised if Quins did much until after the 6N.

Launchbury arriving for next season should theoretically plug a big hole but his injury record doesn't fill me with hope.

Sale's attack was a delight to watch, really on the money and their strike moves were top quality.

[assfly]

That injury list of Quins is horrific. You can see that they don't quite have the depth to cover it.

I was thinking in the second half how the Sale pack looked really tired, ideally we would have started carving them up if we had the personnel but we still kept bashing it up with the forwards and then kicking it away.

Strange to think how a few weeks ago we were pushing for 2nd.

[SaintK]

I'm no fan of Farrell and would be quite happy for him not to be available for England's 6N. He will cop a ban but the tackle was far from being a horrrific one - he was bent a fair bit from the waist, so there is a bit of mitigation - albeit the tackled player was always quite low. I doubt there'd have been anywhere near such an outcry were it not Farrell involved.

Quite
He should get 6 weeks reduced to 3 if he agrees to attend a "tackle awareness" course.
Coleman of London Irish copped that for a far worse high tackle a couple of weeks back and having been sent off for a similar offence last season

Afaik you only get the tackle course offer on a first offence. Certainly that was the case for Jacob Umaga, although he managed to commit the same offence mere weeks apart, so maybe that had a bearing. The tackle course is bollocks anyway. The players are full time professionals, they know how to tackle safely, they just choose not to. If a player goes on a course that's, on the face of it, a tacit admission that they're not being coached properly, in which case the club ought to be fined.

Coleman got 4 weeks, not 3. It looks like prior record knocks a week off the amount of mitigation that can be applied.

Not sure how they've deemed him not to be a repeat offender either, in the full written judgement they even acknowledge his red card for a similar offence in 2021. I really think it's daft that you can get a third of your ban taken off for admitting guilt and saying sorry on a subsequent similar incident. I'd also say they were wrong in judging his offence as mid-level. Fuck knows what top end looks like if that was only mid.

Ahh, I stand corrected. I thought it was Creevy who copped the 4 weeks

[SaintK]

Bottom placed Caldy beat top of the table and previously unbeaten Ealing 26-24 in the Championship

[Margin__Walker]

U20s EPS announced today. Looks pretty strong on paper, with one point of interest the appearance of Hathaway, who was involved for Wales U20s last year.

From a LI point of view, it's interesting to see Fasogbon (prop) involved. Only turned 18 at the end of August, but is a massive human and was pretty dominant carrying the ball at U18s.

Forwards
Archie McArthur (Gloucester)
George Patten (Northampton Saints)
Calum Scott (London Irish)
Finn Theobald-Thomas (Gloucester)
Nathan Jibulu (Harlequins)
Afolabi Fasogbon (London Irish)
James Halliwell (Bristol Bears)
Tim Hoyt (Leicester Tigers)
Harry Browne (Harlequins)
Lewis Chessum (Leicester Tigers)
Danny Eite (Gloucester)
Robert Carmichael (Leicester Tigers)
Finn Carnduff (Leicester Tigers)
Joshua Manz (Leicester Tigers)
Guy Pepper (Newcastle Falcons)
Josh Dingley (Bath Rugby)
Chandler Cunningham-South (London Irish)
Greg Fisilau (Exeter Chiefs)

Backs
Charlie Bracken (Saracens)
Nye Thomas (Sale Sharks)
Sam Harris (Bath Rugby)
Sam Worsley (Bristol Bears)
Cassius Cleaves (Harlequins)
Joseph Woodward (Leicester Tigers)
Rekeiti Ma'asi-White (Sale Sharks)
Benjamin Waghorn (Harlequins)
Jacob Cusick (Leicester Tigers)
Joe Jenkins (Bristol Bears)
Josh Hathaway (Gloucester)
Tobias Elliott (Saracens)
Connor Slevin (Harlequins)
Louie Johnson (Newcastle Falcons)

[duke]

U20s EPS announced today. Looks pretty strong on paper, with one point of interest the appearance of Hathaway, who was involved for Wales U20s last year.

From a LI point of view, it's interesting to see Fasogbon (prop) involved. Only turned 18 at the end of August, but is a massive human and was pretty dominant carrying the ball at U18s.

Forwards
Archie McArthur (Gloucester)
George Patten (Northampton Saints)
Calum Scott (London Irish)
Finn Theobald-Thomas (Gloucester)
Nathan Jibulu (Harlequins)
Afolabi Fasogbon (London Irish)
James Halliwell (Bristol Bears)
Tim Hoyt (Leicester Tigers)
Harry Browne (Harlequins)
Lewis Chessum (Leicester Tigers)
Danny Eite (Gloucester)
Robert Carmichael (Leicester Tigers)
Finn Carnduff (Leicester Tigers)
Joshua Manz (Leicester Tigers)
Guy Pepper (Newcastle Falcons)
Josh Dingley (Bath Rugby)
Chandler Cunningham-South (London Irish)
Greg Fisilau (Exeter Chiefs)

Backs
Charlie Bracken (Saracens)
Nye Thomas (Sale Sharks)
Sam Harris (Bath Rugby)
Sam Worsley (Bristol Bears)
Cassius Cleaves (Harlequins)
Joseph Woodward (Leicester Tigers)
Rekeiti Ma'asi-White (Sale Sharks)
Benjamin Waghorn (Harlequins)
Jacob Cusick (Leicester Tigers)
Joe Jenkins (Bristol Bears)
Josh Hathaway (Gloucester)
Tobias Elliott (Saracens)
Connor Slevin (Harlequins)
Louie Johnson (Newcastle Falcons)

Contender for sad old git of the year award - I remember seeing both Guy Pepper's and Charlie Bracken's fathers playing for England Under 20s - and Kyran Bracken was about 30 years ago at Newbury's old ground.

[Margin__Walker]

Nice. Both of their lads look pretty decent too.

We could definitely field a very strong looking back row here in

6 - Cunningham South
7 - Pepper
8 - Fisilau

[Margin__Walker]

One of a few time Chandler introduced himself to the Bristol midfield yesterday. Could be fun if he does get some U20s game time .

[Kawazaki]

Some interesting news on Tom Willis. He's likely in Borthwick's first England squad and he's joining Saracens.

https://archive.ph/Z7Q5V

[JM2K6]

Huge signing for Saracens, that.

[Tichtheid]

U20s EPS announced today. Looks pretty strong on paper, with one point of interest the appearance of Hathaway, who was involved for Wales U20s last year.

From a LI point of view, it's interesting to see Fasogbon (prop) involved. Only turned 18 at the end of August, but is a massive human and was pretty dominant carrying the ball at U18s.

Forwards
Archie McArthur (Gloucester)
George Patten (Northampton Saints)
Calum Scott (London Irish)
Finn Theobald-Thomas (Gloucester)
Nathan Jibulu (Harlequins)
Afolabi Fasogbon (London Irish)
James Halliwell (Bristol Bears)
Tim Hoyt (Leicester Tigers)
Harry Browne (Harlequins)
Lewis Chessum (Leicester Tigers)
Danny Eite (Gloucester)
Robert Carmichael (Leicester Tigers)
Finn Carnduff (Leicester Tigers)
Joshua Manz (Leicester Tigers)
Guy Pepper (Newcastle Falcons)
Josh Dingley (Bath Rugby)
Chandler Cunningham-South (London Irish)
Greg Fisilau (Exeter Chiefs)

Backs
Charlie Bracken (Saracens)
Nye Thomas (Sale Sharks)
Sam Harris (Bath Rugby)
Sam Worsley (Bristol Bears)
Cassius Cleaves (Harlequins)
Joseph Woodward (Leicester Tigers)
Rekeiti Ma'asi-White (Sale Sharks)
Benjamin Waghorn (Harlequins)
Jacob Cusick (Leicester Tigers)
Joe Jenkins (Bristol Bears)
Josh Hathaway (Gloucester)
Tobias Elliott (Saracens)
Connor Slevin (Harlequins)
Louie Johnson (Newcastle Falcons)

Contender for sad old git of the year award - I remember seeing both Guy Pepper's and Charlie Bracken's fathers playing for England Under 20s - and Kyran Bracken was about 30 years ago at Newbury's old ground.

It would be great if the Halliwell lad was the son of a Spice Girl.

Edinburgh have a scrum half, Charlie Shiel, who is the grandson of Dougie Morgan, who I just about remember watching at Murrayfield.

[Kawazaki]

Huge signing for Saracens, that.

Replacing Jackson Wray perhaps?

[SaintK]

Huge signing for Saracens, that.

Replacing Jackson Wray perhaps?

Yes, should imagine so eventually. Otherwise a lot of backrow players to keep happy.
Excellent signing.

[Kawazaki]

David Duckham has died. Really nice fella, I chatted with him in 2005 in NZ. Great player in an era of crap English players.

[SaintK]

David Duckham has died. Really nice fella, I chatted with him in 2005 in NZ. Great player in an era of crap English players.

RIP. One of the very best in any era.The body swerve at full pelt was a thing of beauty!

[Ovals]

David Duckham has died. Really nice fella, I chatted with him in 2005 in NZ. Great player in an era of crap English players.

RIP. One of the very best in any era.The body swerve at full pelt was a thing of beauty!

Wonderful player - shame he played in a period of relatively poor England teams. RIP

[JM2K6]

Huge signing for Saracens, that.

Replacing Jackson Wray perhaps?

At the very least he's filling a Billy shaped hole when the big guy is unavailable / playing like shit and allows for the same amount of workrate and go-forward. Wray is probably more flexible but nowhere near the same level of quality or impact. Very good signing - who's heading the other way?

[Paddington Bear]

Squad’s out. Let me be the first to say - I for one welcome our new scab nosed overlord

[geordie_6]

Forwards
Ollie Chessum
Dan Cole
Ben Curry
Alex Dombrandt
Ben Earl
Ellis Genge
Jamie George
Joe Heyes
Jonny Hill
Nick Isiekwe
Maro Itoje
Courtney Lawes
Lewis Ludlam
George McGuigan (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
Bevan Rodd
Sam Simmonds
Kyle Sinckler
Mako Vunipola
Jack Walker (Harlequins, uncapped)
Jack Willis

Backs
Elliot Daly
Owen Farrell
Tommy Freeman
Ollie Hassell-Collins (London Irish, uncapped)
Dan Kelly
Max Malins
Joe Marchant
Alex Mitchell
Cadan Murley (Harlequins, uncapped)
Henry Slade
Fin Smith (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Marcus Smith
Freddie Steward
Manu Tuilagi
Jack van Poortvliet
Ben Youngs

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... land-squad

[Margin__Walker]

A few gripes maybe (Thought Rapava Ruskin did enough for example), but there's a lot to like there.

[Oxbow]

Overall reasonably happy, very disappointed Ribbans finally got his chance, played well and has already been jettisoned.

[geordie_6]

Ben not Tom Curry?

[inactionman]

Ben not Tom Curry?

Isn't Tom injured?

Also, wasn't expecting Dan Cole's name on the list - how's he going for Leicester?

[Margin__Walker]

Overall reasonably happy, very disappointed Ribbans finally got his chance, played well and has already been jettisoned.

Yeah, he's a touch unlucky to miss out to Isiekwe. He was the other along with VRR, I was thinking of.

Nice to see the backline refresh though. Looks to have more potential without Nowell, Porter, May, Cokanasiga etc taking spots in the match day 23.

[JM2K6]

Yep. Looking forward to seeing Cole starting, Youngs and Farrell back together at 9 and 10, and a rapier-sharp Kelly/Tuilagi midfield

[Raggs]

Was going to ask about Tom, did a quick google and suggests he's got a short term injury? I assume Ford is still injured too? Farrell to still be at 12 i suspect.

Not sure about Ludlam, but he's been alright as backup.

There's a lot of potential there, but the first cull, and then the actual lineup, will tell us a lot. Overall, that backrow could support quite a fast game.

[Paddington Bear]

I think the chances of Faz playing 12 are relatively low tbh.
Can always gripe about England selection but he’s binned probably all the out of form favourites bar Tuilagi who is probably worth a last gamble.

This squad can produce a pretty balanced side and finally we have some options to stick pace on the wings. Very pleased for McGuigan who I think has been criminally underrated, and hopeful Mitchell will get a chance to prove himself, maybe against Italy.