2022/23 Champions/Challenge Cup

[Paddington Bear]

Those who watched the Sarries game, how did Dumortier go for LOU? A fair bit of chat around him this season.

Yeah very impressive, they’d have been nowhere without him

[PornDog]

Every time i see a replay of the JOD assault (i use the word advisedly) the worse it looks. He knew exactly what he was doing, that was clearly a deliberate shot to the head. He has his eyes locked on Ribbans head and drove that shoulder into his head with force, he could have easily pulled out of that, there was plenty of time to pull out, but he chose not to.

Bolded the only bit I'd disagree with. I really don't think any* player ever does this, the fact it was aimed straight at his head is more JOD's stupidity/inaccuracy. However, he certainly deliberately tucked his arm, led with the shoulder and intended to deliver with force - I think in situation like this, regardless of whether there is head contact or not, the starting point should be a red card! Leading with the shoulder is incredibly common these days, going unpunished several times in each and every game. It needs stamping out sharpish!


*There's always an exception

[Torquemada 1420]

Those who watched the Sarries game, how did Dumortier go for LOU? A fair bit of chat around him this season.

Yeah very impressive, they’d have been nowhere without him

Cheers both.

[Chilli]

Every time i see a replay of the JOD assault (i use the word advisedly) the worse it looks. He knew exactly what he was doing, that was clearly a deliberate shot to the head. He has his eyes locked on Ribbans head and drove that shoulder into his head with force, he could have easily pulled out of that, there was plenty of time to pull out, but he chose not to.

Bolded the only bit I'd disagree with. I really don't think any* player ever does this, the fact it was aimed straight at his head is more JOD's stupidity/inaccuracy. However, he certainly deliberately tucked his arm, led with the shoulder and intended to deliver with force - I think in situation like this, regardless of whether there is head contact or not, the starting point should be a red card! Leading with the shoulder is incredibly common these days, going unpunished several times in each and every game. It needs stamping out sharpish!


*There's always an exception

Is there a clip of this?

[Sards]

Cmaan Stormers

[JM2K6]

Okay yeah I see what Margin means about Gonzales, wow

[JM2K6]

That's an odd decision - Stormers player had fallen to his knees before Gonzales made contact. Looked in at the side so still illegal but he didn't collapse it and didn't prevent the try. Ah well, that's what happens when your maul gets munched

[Margin__Walker]

That maul is already going down . Gonzales really unlucky

[Sards]

London Irish are very inaccurate and not organized at all....and silly decisions

[JM2K6]

Fuck off with yelling at teams to use the ball in a scrum when it's not even reached the 8

I think this will be forward but it's a lovely move

[JM2K6]

What do we make of that tackle? The whiplash effect brings head contact into play.

On balance that's at least a yellow, no real excuse for standing up in the tackle like that especially as he started off crouched

[sockwithaticket]

Try scoring pass is forward, but Loader should be getting a red for that head contact. Basically completely upright when contact is made.

[Chilli]

Red

[ASMO]

That was just fucking dumb from Loader, no excuse, stone cold red. Going to be a cricket score now

[JM2K6]

And red.

Can't argue too much about that one. The yellow was an error, the red was Loader's fault.

[Sards]

Red will kill the game. Stormers by 60

[JM2K6]

Rogerson with a bizarre attempt at a tackle there. Hugely lucky nothing bad happened.

[sockwithaticket]

Ugo and Warburton making excuses for shit tackles

[JM2K6]

You can't let him flop on the ruck like that!

Irish reacting really well to the card so far.

[Margin__Walker]

How is that not a pen? Then 9 has flopped on it to kill it

[ASMO]

The Leprachaun at 10 for Irish is utter gash.

[JM2K6]

Hugely disappointed to hear a head coach whinge about the decision. It's really fucking simple, Les - this isn't going away. Make tackling lower a bigger priority than smashing people. Drill it into them. Make it second nature. Stop making fucking excuses.

[sockwithaticket]

Les Kiss being flabbergasted as to how that was a red is probably indicative of why this continues to be a problem rather than being stamped out like tip tackles. Coaches aren't on board with lowering tackle heights.

[JM2K6]

The Leprachaun at 10 for Irish is utter gash.

With ball in hand he's getting them moving at least as well as their usual 10. His kicking has backfired but his energy and attacking intent is a big positive.

I know your player rating scale is 1-10 with only 1 and 10 but I think you're being a bit harsh.

[ASMO]

Hugely disappointed to hear a head coach whinge about the decision. It's really fucking simple, Les - this isn't going away. Make tackling lower a bigger priority than smashing people. Drill it into them. Make it second nature. Stop making fucking excuses.

Totally this, tackle low, you remove doubt and reduce the likelihood of even an accidental head hit, fuck right off Kiss, people like him are part of the problem.

[JM2K6]

Excellent timing by me there

[ASMO]

The Leprachaun at 10 for Irish is utter gash.

With ball in hand he's getting them moving at least as well as their usual 10. His kicking has backfired but his energy and attacking intent is a big positive.

I know your player rating scale is 1-10 with only 1 and 10 but I think you're being a bit harsh.

He is certainly getting the Stormers moving.

[ASMO]

Excellent timing by me there

[JM2K6]

What's annoying about that intercept is that Jennings had correctly identified that exact scenario five minutes ago and put Irish away with a glorious ball over the top instead

[JM2K6]

The Leprachaun at 10 for Irish is utter gash.

With ball in hand he's getting them moving at least as well as their usual 10. His kicking has backfired but his energy and attacking intent is a big positive.

I know your player rating scale is 1-10 with only 1 and 10 but I think you're being a bit harsh.

He is certainly getting the Stormers moving.

Definitely does seem that he makes a decision early without taking events into account - it's been why his kicks have failed too often and that pass should never have gone like that, it wasn't even a risky spot rush for the intercept

[JM2K6]

A little fortunate but you make your own luck. Thoroughly enjoy the Stormers approach to attacking. Incredibly well rounded approach.

[JM2K6]

Strange half of rugby. You kind of begin to understand why Irish lose so many matches despite having a more talented squad than they've had in a long time. Discipline and decision making are constant problems, and I think the coaches are a big problem there. Obviously having a few injured players back would be good, but having Arundell available might get you tries from nowhere without actually fixing structural issues.

Stormers excellent to watch and play a brand of rugby I could get behind. Shame Libbok went off, I wanted to see more of him. Obviously these SA sides are stacked compared to the actually European teams that make up the bulk of the competition, so it's always going to be a bit of an easy ride for them versus playing their direct rivals or Leinster or the Crusaders, but if I'm going to have to watch these cunts ruin our tournament then I'm glad they're putting on a show for the viewers.

[ASMO]

In many ways, this year is highlighting that (probably Saracens excepted) the Premiership teams are really poor quality compared to the Saffer, French and URC teams. We are just not as good as we think we are, and this is being reflected in the national side. In reality how many top tier international standard players do England really have?

It does suggest to me that the talent is spread too thinly across too many teams, it does suggest a structural rethink is needed.

It is not coincidental that the most successful countries operate less teams at the top level, yet England thinks it can run 12 (with a salary cap), makes no sense the facts simply dont support it.

I would not be against running 6 (possibly regional) teams at the top tier, then run the clubs at next level.

[JM2K6]

In many ways, this year is highlighting that (probably Saracens excepted) the Premiership teams are really poor quality compared to the Saffer, French and URC teams. We are just not as good as we think we are, and this is being reflected in the national side. In reality how many top tier international standard players do England really have?

How to say you've not watched the French teams this season without watching the French teams this season...

The 9th best team in England with a weakened side getting gubbed by a top South African side says very little about the premiership.

Outside of Saracens - Tigers are 3 wins from 3, Exeter qualified with 2 from 3, Quins are 1 from 2 (that one being Paris St Germain - sorry, Racing 92), and the only actual disappointments / surprises have been Saints and Sale.

Lyon, Bordeaux, Racing, Castres, Clermont, Montpellier have played 16 matches in total and won 2. French sides really aren't showing us up this season.

[Margin__Walker]

Strange half of rugby. You kind of begin to understand why Irish lose so many matches despite having a more talented squad than they've had in a long time. Discipline and decision making are constant problems, and I think the coaches are a big problem there. Obviously having a few injured players back would be good, but having Arundell available might get you tries from nowhere without actually fixing structural issues.

Our depth is being tested a fair bit at the moment. The lineout hasn't been functioning with whatever hooker we play not named Creevy. Coleman is either banned or injured and with Jackson, Joseph and Arundell not available, you lose the threat behind.

Red cards are absolutely an issue. That's 3 first half reds in a little over a month now. You just can't be fighting off the back foot like that and against a good team like today, you're going to get run ragged defending a man down for most of the game. Little disappointed the red today wasn't mitigated down to a yellow with it being shoulder on shoulder and passive before the clash, but you can't really complain (and Kiss certainly shouldn't on TV). It's head contact at the end of the day

[OomStruisbaai]

Hard luck for Irish to get the red. Great to see Sasha just step up for Libbok. Stormers are fortunate to have youngsters like him , Evans and Hartzenberg.

[Sards]

In many ways, this year is highlighting that (probably Saracens excepted) the Premiership teams are really poor quality compared to the Saffer, French and URC teams. We are just not as good as we think we are, and this is being reflected in the national side. In reality how many top tier international standard players do England really have?

It does suggest to me that the talent is spread too thinly across too many teams, it does suggest a structural rethink is needed.

It is not coincidental that the most successful countries operate less teams at the top level, yet England thinks it can run 12 (with a salary cap), makes no sense the facts simply dont support it.

I would not be against running 6 (possibly regional) teams at the top tier, then run the clubs at next level.

Really poor quality sides we have seen this weekend

[OomStruisbaai]

Fourie is just outstanding.

[Margin__Walker]

Ah FFS. Turning this off.

[JM2K6]

Strange half of rugby. You kind of begin to understand why Irish lose so many matches despite having a more talented squad than they've had in a long time. Discipline and decision making are constant problems, and I think the coaches are a big problem there. Obviously having a few injured players back would be good, but having Arundell available might get you tries from nowhere without actually fixing structural issues.

Our depth is being tested a fair bit at the moment. The lineout hasn't been functioning with whatever hooker we play not named Creevy. Coleman is either banned or injured and with Jackson, Joseph and Arundell not available, you lose the threat behind.

Red cards are absolutely an issue. That's 3 first half reds in a little over a month now. You just can't be fighting off the back foot like that and against a good team like today, you're going to get run ragged defending a man down for most of the game. Little disappointed the red today wasn't mitigated down to a yellow with it being shoulder on shoulder and passive before the clash, but you can't really complain (and Kiss certainly shouldn't on TV). It's head contact at the end of the day

I feel Coleman is part of the problem really! And Creevy's discipline isn't amazing either. But yes, injuries will always affect cohesion and structure (setting up early excuses for Quins later) and against a side that was more likely than not to run over most sides in this tournament it's always going to be an uphill struggle.

Oh, another head contact at the ruck. Ball was clearly lost but he felt the need to hit. The sport needs to change away from just coaching players to fling their bodies into contact as the first instinct. This could easily be another red.