The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Where goats go to escape
Slick
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sockwithaticket wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:15 pm
Slick wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:45 am I see Finn Smith has gone to the dark side
You mean stayed on the dark side. You guys might have been flirting with him, but his representative rugby has been England.
I don’t think that’s much of an indicator to be honest, plenty of SQ players have gone through the English system if they live down there but have wanted to play for Scotland

In saying that, I think the fact things moved quite quickly with Healy probably indicates he told Townsend a while back he wasn’t interested
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KingBlairhorn
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I like neeps wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:02 am
Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:56 am
Big D wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:24 am Squad announced today apparently.

Any bolters, do we think?

I suppose Healy wouldn't really count as one now that there has been the big fanfare.

Cooney would be a surprise.
Arron Reed at Sale, Gus Warr at Sale who went to Dollar but unsure if he's SQ.

I firmly believe Cam Henderson is the future of Scottish locks and he's fit and firing again for Leicester.

Would be a good time to find an sq prop somewhere. McCallum who in their infinite wisdom the SRU decided to not bother with and recently allow go to the ProD2 whilst continuing with nonSQ plodders will be in.
Calm down there pal, if you can’t keep up with the news that’s your issue. McCallum signed for Edinburgh last week!

The other I mentioned the other day possibly worth a decent look is Will Hurd. 23 yo age grade Scottish international starting to get half decent prem gametime.
Jock42
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What would have been his last game? November? 2 games until England isn't much prep time but beggars and aw that.
Last edited by Jock42 on Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I like neeps
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KingBlairhorn wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:47 am
I like neeps wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:02 am
Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:56 am


Any bolters, do we think?

I suppose Healy wouldn't really count as one now that there has been the big fanfare.

Cooney would be a surprise.
Arron Reed at Sale, Gus Warr at Sale who went to Dollar but unsure if he's SQ.

I firmly believe Cam Henderson is the future of Scottish locks and he's fit and firing again for Leicester.

Would be a good time to find an sq prop somewhere. McCallum who in their infinite wisdom the SRU decided to not bother with and recently allow go to the ProD2 whilst continuing with nonSQ plodders will be in.
Calm down there pal, if you can’t keep up with the news that’s your issue. McCallum signed for Edinburgh last week!

The other I mentioned the other day possibly worth a decent look is Will Hurd. 23 yo age grade Scottish international starting to get half decent prem gametime.
Well aware he signed last week, after what 10 weeks of Worcester's collapse? 10 weeks the SRU left him without a club when they could've signed him and now he's likely an injury away from the bench. It's just bad management, it was when wuss went bust and it is now. And it has been the four years we've let coaches sign some pretty average and some very below average (Angus Williams) props ahead of him.
Jock42
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Hes just signed for Newcastle for next season.
dpedin
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Immelman off to Bulls next season. I'm sad to see him go, he has been a very good signing and a solid player whenever I have seen him play. He seems to give 100% every game. However chuffed he has signed for a SA team and I am sure he will be glad to be going home after his time in Europe, I wish him well.
KingBlairhorn
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I like neeps wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:04 pm
KingBlairhorn wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:47 am
I like neeps wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:02 am

Arron Reed at Sale, Gus Warr at Sale who went to Dollar but unsure if he's SQ.

I firmly believe Cam Henderson is the future of Scottish locks and he's fit and firing again for Leicester.

Would be a good time to find an sq prop somewhere. McCallum who in their infinite wisdom the SRU decided to not bother with and recently allow go to the ProD2 whilst continuing with nonSQ plodders will be in.
Calm down there pal, if you can’t keep up with the news that’s your issue. McCallum signed for Edinburgh last week!

The other I mentioned the other day possibly worth a decent look is Will Hurd. 23 yo age grade Scottish international starting to get half decent prem gametime.
Well aware he signed last week, after what 10 weeks of Worcester's collapse? 10 weeks the SRU left him without a club when they could've signed him and now he's likely an injury away from the bench. It's just bad management, it was when wuss went bust and it is now. And it has been the four years we've let coaches sign some pretty average and some very below average (Angus Williams) props ahead of him.
You're doing a lot of guessing there champ. You are guessing the SRU could afford it, you are guessing he wanted to move to Scotland, you are guessing Blair/Franco wanted him in their squads and you are guessing he would actually get games (i.e. the most important part) if/when he joined. It's telling that the SRU only signed him after Angus Williams got injured - thereby a) making a slot in the squad for him where he might get some games and b) probably getting an insurance payout which will fund his acquisition. A lot might have happened in that 10 weeks and we have no idea what did.

The SRU are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they built powerhouse teams that win everything in sight but don't sign any Scots they get slated. If they sign all Scots but lose everything in sight they get slated. They have gone for the sensible middle ground of trying to get as many Scots into the team as possible whilst remaining largely competitive with both pro teams in the league and Europe. I agree that I would like to see more Scottish props in the pro teams because our depth is shocking, but if the players don't exist or aren't good enough then we shouldn't be stocking them up to sit on the bench (at best) every week. It is counter-productive and largely pointless.
Big D
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Big D
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McConniche perhaps the biggest surprise there. Mark Palmer kind of gave that away earlier.

Would like to have seen a Roebuck, Warr or Chapman in the squad. Particularly the last two as I think Horne has proven to be a good club player but not international standard.
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Tichtheid
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They're obviously expecting Watson to be fit, but not Graham.

Dammit.

McConnochie was good a few years ago, iirc, I haven't seen him this season
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clydecloggie
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If your name is Ruaridh McConnichie there's no getting away from playing for Scotland. Took him a while to realise.
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Yr Alban
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Big D wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:14 pm McConniche perhaps the biggest surprise there. Mark Palmer kind of gave that away earlier.

Would like to have seen a Roebuck, Warr or Chapman in the squad. Particularly the last two as I think Horne has proven to be a good club player but not international standard.
McConnochie? I assume he must be via the 3-year rule as he definitely played 7s for England? Healy not a surprise. Did Roebuck not declare for England?
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clydecloggie
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Yr Alban wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:18 pm
Big D wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:14 pm McConniche perhaps the biggest surprise there. Mark Palmer kind of gave that away earlier.

Would like to have seen a Roebuck, Warr or Chapman in the squad. Particularly the last two as I think Horne has proven to be a good club player but not international standard.
McConnochie? I assume he must be via the 3-year rule as he definitely played 7s for England? Healy not a surprise. Did Roebuck not declare for England?
Full international even, not just 7s. So yes, it's a Dempsey move.
Big D
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Yr Alban wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:18 pm
Big D wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:14 pm McConniche perhaps the biggest surprise there. Mark Palmer kind of gave that away earlier.

Would like to have seen a Roebuck, Warr or Chapman in the squad. Particularly the last two as I think Horne has proven to be a good club player but not international standard.
McConnochie? I assume he must be via the 3-year rule as he definitely played 7s for England? Healy not a surprise. Did Roebuck not declare for England?
TR was called up in October. I still would have asked him.

I don't see it with McConnochie. Nine starts, 16 appearances and 1 try in two seasons for an average Bath team. At 31, he isn't old by any means but I don't see the benefits of him over even a youngster getting squad experience.
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Yr Alban
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clydecloggie wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:17 pm If your name is Ruaridh McConnichie there's no getting away from playing for Scotland. Took him a while to realise.
It offended me on a visceral level that someone with that name would choose England!
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
Big D
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clydecloggie wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:20 pm
Yr Alban wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:18 pm
Big D wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:14 pm McConniche perhaps the biggest surprise there. Mark Palmer kind of gave that away earlier.

Would like to have seen a Roebuck, Warr or Chapman in the squad. Particularly the last two as I think Horne has proven to be a good club player but not international standard.
McConnochie? I assume he must be via the 3-year rule as he definitely played 7s for England? Healy not a surprise. Did Roebuck not declare for England?
Full international even, not just 7s. So yes, it's a Dempsey move.
Yeah both at last world cup for their "home" nations.
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Margin__Walker
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McConnochie's an odd one for sure. Was in great form when he was involved with England, but I've not seen that from him in a while and as you say, 31 is getting on a bit for a wing that's not tearing up trees.
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Yr Alban
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Big D wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:21 pm
Yr Alban wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:18 pm
Big D wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:14 pm McConniche perhaps the biggest surprise there. Mark Palmer kind of gave that away earlier.

Would like to have seen a Roebuck, Warr or Chapman in the squad. Particularly the last two as I think Horne has proven to be a good club player but not international standard.
McConnochie? I assume he must be via the 3-year rule as he definitely played 7s for England? Healy not a surprise. Did Roebuck not declare for England?
TR was called up in October. I still would have asked him.

I don't see it with McConnochie. Nine starts, 16 appearances and 1 try in two seasons for an average Bath team. At 31, he isn't old by any means but I don't see the benefits of him over even a youngster getting squad experience.
They probably did ask him. McConnochie strikes me as a barrel-scraping exercise. I doubt he’ll make a match 22.
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westport
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Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:17 pm They're obviously expecting Watson to be fit, but not Graham.

Dammit.

McConnochie was good a few years ago, iirc, I haven't seen him this season
Mish was back training last week at Edinburgh.

Saw elsewhere that McConnachie has been good for Bath this season, he was also capped at 15's
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JM2K6
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Big D wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:21 pm
Yr Alban wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:18 pm
Big D wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:14 pm McConniche perhaps the biggest surprise there. Mark Palmer kind of gave that away earlier.

Would like to have seen a Roebuck, Warr or Chapman in the squad. Particularly the last two as I think Horne has proven to be a good club player but not international standard.
McConnochie? I assume he must be via the 3-year rule as he definitely played 7s for England? Healy not a surprise. Did Roebuck not declare for England?
TR was called up in October. I still would have asked him.

I don't see it with McConnochie. Nine starts, 16 appearances and 1 try in two seasons for an average Bath team. At 31, he isn't old by any means but I don't see the benefits of him over even a youngster getting squad experience.
I thought he was a really odd callup when he first came on the England radar, but then he started putting in some excellent performances. Probably an 18-month streak of form. Nothing since then though, really fell off and is miles behind in the list of England wings. I assume there's been injuries. He's quite big, quick, good in the air, and is a good finisher. But sometimes he can just skate through games or make dumb errors. There's a lot of raw material to work with.
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Tichtheid
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I suppose this means we'll probably not see Hutchinson or Dingwall in a Scottish squad until Toonie moves on.

No Sam Johnson either, though he hasn't had a lot of rugby this season yet.
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S/Lt_Phillips
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JM2K6 wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:55 pm
Big D wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:21 pm
Yr Alban wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:18 pm

McConnochie? I assume he must be via the 3-year rule as he definitely played 7s for England? Healy not a surprise. Did Roebuck not declare for England?
TR was called up in October. I still would have asked him.

I don't see it with McConnochie. Nine starts, 16 appearances and 1 try in two seasons for an average Bath team. At 31, he isn't old by any means but I don't see the benefits of him over even a youngster getting squad experience.
I thought he was a really odd callup when he first came on the England radar, but then he started putting in some excellent performances. Probably an 18-month streak of form. Nothing since then though, really fell off and is miles behind in the list of England wings. I assume there's been injuries. He's quite big, quick, good in the air, and is a good finisher. But sometimes he can just skate through games or make dumb errors. There's a lot of raw material to work with.
Are we the only country that's used the 3-year-dormancy rule so far (Dempsey)?

Anyway, I think I'd rather have Maitland back on the field, although tbf I don't know much about McConnachie.
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Tichtheid
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Yr Alban wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:24 pm

They probably did ask him. McConnochie strikes me as a barrel-scraping exercise. I doubt he’ll make a match 22.

With Graham and Rowe out, I'm a little surprised the McLean isn't in the squad.
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Yr Alban
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S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:05 pm
JM2K6 wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:55 pm
Big D wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:21 pm

TR was called up in October. I still would have asked him.

I don't see it with McConnochie. Nine starts, 16 appearances and 1 try in two seasons for an average Bath team. At 31, he isn't old by any means but I don't see the benefits of him over even a youngster getting squad experience.
I thought he was a really odd callup when he first came on the England radar, but then he started putting in some excellent performances. Probably an 18-month streak of form. Nothing since then though, really fell off and is miles behind in the list of England wings. I assume there's been injuries. He's quite big, quick, good in the air, and is a good finisher. But sometimes he can just skate through games or make dumb errors. There's a lot of raw material to work with.
Are we the only country that's used the 3-year-dormancy rule so far (Dempsey)?

Anyway, I think I'd rather have Maitland back on the field, although tbf I don't know much about McConnachie.
Namibia are using it to get Byron McGuigan. That’s the only one I’ve heard so far, but to be fair I may have heard it just because he used to be with us
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S/Lt_Phillips
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Yr Alban wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:09 pm
S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:05 pm
JM2K6 wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:55 pm

I thought he was a really odd callup when he first came on the England radar, but then he started putting in some excellent performances. Probably an 18-month streak of form. Nothing since then though, really fell off and is miles behind in the list of England wings. I assume there's been injuries. He's quite big, quick, good in the air, and is a good finisher. But sometimes he can just skate through games or make dumb errors. There's a lot of raw material to work with.
Are we the only country that's used the 3-year-dormancy rule so far (Dempsey)?

Anyway, I think I'd rather have Maitland back on the field, although tbf I don't know much about McConnachie.
Namibia are using it to get Byron McGuigan. That’s the only one I’ve heard so far, but to be fair I may have heard it just because he used to be with us
Ah yes, right enough. I have to say I'm a little surprised we're not being castigated for it as we do whenever we 'poach' someone through the granny or residency rules. Although I've not been on the other place for a good while, they may be frothing about Dempsey/McConnachie over there?
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weegie01
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Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:06 pm
Yr Alban wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:24 pm
They probably did ask him. McConnochie strikes me as a barrel-scraping exercise. I doubt he’ll make a match 22.
With Graham and Rowe out, I'm a little surprised the McLean isn't in the squad.
He has been injured. There are murmerings that although he is off the Glasgow injured list, he is not fully recovered.
Jock42
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Yr Alban wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:09 pm
S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:05 pm
JM2K6 wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:55 pm

I thought he was a really odd callup when he first came on the England radar, but then he started putting in some excellent performances. Probably an 18-month streak of form. Nothing since then though, really fell off and is miles behind in the list of England wings. I assume there's been injuries. He's quite big, quick, good in the air, and is a good finisher. But sometimes he can just skate through games or make dumb errors. There's a lot of raw material to work with.
Are we the only country that's used the 3-year-dormancy rule so far (Dempsey)?

Anyway, I think I'd rather have Maitland back on the field, although tbf I don't know much about McConnachie.
Namibia are using it to get Byron McGuigan. That’s the only one I’ve heard so far, but to be fair I may have heard it just because he used to be with us
Folau for Tonga although I'm not sure if he's been capped.
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JM2K6
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S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:15 pm
Yr Alban wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:09 pm
S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:05 pm

Are we the only country that's used the 3-year-dormancy rule so far (Dempsey)?

Anyway, I think I'd rather have Maitland back on the field, although tbf I don't know much about McConnachie.
Namibia are using it to get Byron McGuigan. That’s the only one I’ve heard so far, but to be fair I may have heard it just because he used to be with us
Ah yes, right enough. I have to say I'm a little surprised we're not being castigated for it as we do whenever we 'poach' someone through the granny or residency rules. Although I've not been on the other place for a good while, they may be frothing about Dempsey/McConnachie over there?
I think the general shrug of the shoulders is a natural reaction to the fact that it only impacts players who don't have an international future with their first country, therefore not in reality taking talent away from any one nation. The fact that it's England with a lot of wing stocks makes it even less likely to provoke any ire, but in any case the vast majority of these cases are going to be players moving from Big Country to Smaller Country - far more pronounced than going from one T1 side (England) to another T1 side (Scotland). There's probably a decent amount of goodwill towards players who are wanting to restart their international careers after being passed over for an extended period of time and aren't seen as exploiting loopholes.

Basically - the system did its job, they got a shot at international rugby (usually with the country that developed them), and for whatever reason they're surplus to requirements, so it's not a major blow if they rock up for someone else after a few years. Quite different to most other types of poaches.
Slick
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JM2K6 wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:55 pm
Big D wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:21 pm
Yr Alban wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:18 pm

McConnochie? I assume he must be via the 3-year rule as he definitely played 7s for England? Healy not a surprise. Did Roebuck not declare for England?
TR was called up in October. I still would have asked him.

I don't see it with McConnochie. Nine starts, 16 appearances and 1 try in two seasons for an average Bath team. At 31, he isn't old by any means but I don't see the benefits of him over even a youngster getting squad experience.
I thought he was a really odd callup when he first came on the England radar, but then he started putting in some excellent performances. Probably an 18-month streak of form. Nothing since then though, really fell off and is miles behind in the list of England wings. I assume there's been injuries. He's quite big, quick, good in the air, and is a good finisher. But sometimes he can just skate through games or make dumb errors. There's a lot of raw material to work with.
Sounds perfect for us
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JM2K6
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Slick wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:03 pm
JM2K6 wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:55 pm
Big D wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:21 pm

TR was called up in October. I still would have asked him.

I don't see it with McConnochie. Nine starts, 16 appearances and 1 try in two seasons for an average Bath team. At 31, he isn't old by any means but I don't see the benefits of him over even a youngster getting squad experience.
I thought he was a really odd callup when he first came on the England radar, but then he started putting in some excellent performances. Probably an 18-month streak of form. Nothing since then though, really fell off and is miles behind in the list of England wings. I assume there's been injuries. He's quite big, quick, good in the air, and is a good finisher. But sometimes he can just skate through games or make dumb errors. There's a lot of raw material to work with.
Sounds perfect for us
Hah!

I'm actually pretty excited to see what he can do for Scotland if given a chance.
Big D
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Jock42 wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:25 pm
Yr Alban wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:09 pm
S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:05 pm

Are we the only country that's used the 3-year-dormancy rule so far (Dempsey)?

Anyway, I think I'd rather have Maitland back on the field, although tbf I don't know much about McConnachie.
Namibia are using it to get Byron McGuigan. That’s the only one I’ve heard so far, but to be fair I may have heard it just because he used to be with us
Folau for Tonga although I'm not sure if he's been capped.
Hasn't Piatau and Fekitoa also played for Tonga?

Luatua was called up by Samoa but was injured. He's confirmed the swap.

Suspect we'll see more in the next few months.
inactionman
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S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:15 pm
Yr Alban wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:09 pm
S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:05 pm

Are we the only country that's used the 3-year-dormancy rule so far (Dempsey)?

Anyway, I think I'd rather have Maitland back on the field, although tbf I don't know much about McConnachie.
Namibia are using it to get Byron McGuigan. That’s the only one I’ve heard so far, but to be fair I may have heard it just because he used to be with us
Ah yes, right enough. I have to say I'm a little surprised we're not being castigated for it as we do whenever we 'poach' someone through the granny or residency rules. Although I've not been on the other place for a good while, they may be frothing about Dempsey/McConnachie over there?
I, for one, am raging.

McConnachie is a tidy wing, decent gas (he was a 7s international) but many younger models are ahead of him in the England queue so I think there's a view of 'good luck and best wishes'. He seems to have had a few injuries over the last few years as well, although I'll admit I've not kept a close eye I think he's not managed more than a dozen or so games for the last few seasons.

If it's any consolation, Bath are looking progressively less shite (although that's relative) so he might not be in too toxic form.
KingBlairhorn
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JM2K6 wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:01 pm
S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:15 pm
Yr Alban wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:09 pm

Namibia are using it to get Byron McGuigan. That’s the only one I’ve heard so far, but to be fair I may have heard it just because he used to be with us
Ah yes, right enough. I have to say I'm a little surprised we're not being castigated for it as we do whenever we 'poach' someone through the granny or residency rules. Although I've not been on the other place for a good while, they may be frothing about Dempsey/McConnachie over there?
I think the general shrug of the shoulders is a natural reaction to the fact that it only impacts players who don't have an international future with their first country, therefore not in reality taking talent away from any one nation. The fact that it's England with a lot of wing stocks makes it even less likely to provoke any ire, but in any case the vast majority of these cases are going to be players moving from Big Country to Smaller Country - far more pronounced than going from one T1 side (England) to another T1 side (Scotland). There's probably a decent amount of goodwill towards players who are wanting to restart their international careers after being passed over for an extended period of time and aren't seen as exploiting loopholes.

Basically - the system did its job, they got a shot at international rugby (usually with the country that developed them), and for whatever reason they're surplus to requirements, so it's not a major blow if they rock up for someone else after a few years. Quite different to most other types of poaches.
My own view is the smaller/less successful nations like Scotland with our tiny playing resource have to take advantage of this kind of rule. The reality is that most dual qualified players will choose to play for a bigger nation if possible. In recent years we have seen that with Fin Smith, Fraser Dingwall, Bevan Rodd and others. They all now have the chance to 'try out' for England and if it doesn't work out can fall back to Scotland. I expect we'll see a lot of that as players hedge their bets on a big team and then drop down when it doesn't work out.

We have had some surprises the other way like Huw Jones and Rory Huchinson but most will go the 'wrong' way for us, largely because they are coming through another system. To be honest that's kind of fair enough, although obviously I'd rather they all played for us.
Slick
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Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:02 pm I suppose this means we'll probably not see Hutchinson or Dingwall in a Scottish squad until Toonie moves on.

No Sam Johnson either, though he hasn't had a lot of rugby this season yet.
Would definitely have liked Johnson in the squad.

I don’t rate McLean really but it would surely have been better to have him, or any Scotland winger, involved in the squad rather than a 31 year old ex England player. It’s a very odd one
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
KingBlairhorn
Posts: 1856
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:53 am

Slick wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:10 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:02 pm I suppose this means we'll probably not see Hutchinson or Dingwall in a Scottish squad until Toonie moves on.

No Sam Johnson either, though he hasn't had a lot of rugby this season yet.
Would definitely have liked Johnson in the squad.

I don’t rate McLean really but it would surely have been better to have him, or any Scotland winger, involved in the squad rather than a 31 year old ex England player. It’s a very odd one
On McLean, when he broke through I thought (and posted as such) that he was going to be a fixture for Scotland and Glasgow more or less for the rest of his career as long as he was fit. I had watched him for the U20s and was genuinely excited for what he could do, and his early forays into pro rugby really just increased my excitement. Ollie Smith on the other hand I had reservations about, he hadn't looked so good at youth level and was ropey in his early pro starts. Almost the exact same is true of Connor Boyle and Rory Darge. I do wonder what has happened in the management of Boyle and McLean to leave them looking undercooked to a certain extent for pro level rugby (more McLean, Boyle has been okay but just hasn't had quite the impact I expected).

Also, me as a judge of rugby ability :thumbdown:
Slick
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KingBlairhorn wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:03 pm
JM2K6 wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:01 pm
S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:15 pm

Ah yes, right enough. I have to say I'm a little surprised we're not being castigated for it as we do whenever we 'poach' someone through the granny or residency rules. Although I've not been on the other place for a good while, they may be frothing about Dempsey/McConnachie over there?
I think the general shrug of the shoulders is a natural reaction to the fact that it only impacts players who don't have an international future with their first country, therefore not in reality taking talent away from any one nation. The fact that it's England with a lot of wing stocks makes it even less likely to provoke any ire, but in any case the vast majority of these cases are going to be players moving from Big Country to Smaller Country - far more pronounced than going from one T1 side (England) to another T1 side (Scotland). There's probably a decent amount of goodwill towards players who are wanting to restart their international careers after being passed over for an extended period of time and aren't seen as exploiting loopholes.

Basically - the system did its job, they got a shot at international rugby (usually with the country that developed them), and for whatever reason they're surplus to requirements, so it's not a major blow if they rock up for someone else after a few years. Quite different to most other types of poaches.
My own view is the smaller/less successful nations like Scotland with our tiny playing resource have to take advantage of this kind of rule. The reality is that most dual qualified players will choose to play for a bigger nation if possible. In recent years we have seen that with Fin Smith, Fraser Dingwall, Bevan Rodd and others. They all now have the chance to 'try out' for England and if it doesn't work out can fall back to Scotland. I expect we'll see a lot of that as players hedge their bets on a big team and then drop down when it doesn't work out.

We have had some surprises the other way like Huw Jones and Rory Huchinson but most will go the 'wrong' way for us, largely because they are coming through another system. To be honest that's kind of fair enough, although obviously I'd rather they all played for us.
I hope you are wrong about players hedging their bets then moving down, that would be disastrous for us - are you suggesting they would accept 3 years of not playing international rugby to try with a bigger side and see if it works? That might be a bit of a stretch.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
charltom
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I suspect in reality that there will be less effort by international teams to capture players early by selecting them, because that capture wouldn't be permanent anyway. So you may in fact see more players remain available for longer this way, and the need for the new rule may gradually diminish.
KingBlairhorn
Posts: 1856
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Slick wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:50 pm
KingBlairhorn wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:03 pm
JM2K6 wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:01 pm

I think the general shrug of the shoulders is a natural reaction to the fact that it only impacts players who don't have an international future with their first country, therefore not in reality taking talent away from any one nation. The fact that it's England with a lot of wing stocks makes it even less likely to provoke any ire, but in any case the vast majority of these cases are going to be players moving from Big Country to Smaller Country - far more pronounced than going from one T1 side (England) to another T1 side (Scotland). There's probably a decent amount of goodwill towards players who are wanting to restart their international careers after being passed over for an extended period of time and aren't seen as exploiting loopholes.

Basically - the system did its job, they got a shot at international rugby (usually with the country that developed them), and for whatever reason they're surplus to requirements, so it's not a major blow if they rock up for someone else after a few years. Quite different to most other types of poaches.
My own view is the smaller/less successful nations like Scotland with our tiny playing resource have to take advantage of this kind of rule. The reality is that most dual qualified players will choose to play for a bigger nation if possible. In recent years we have seen that with Fin Smith, Fraser Dingwall, Bevan Rodd and others. They all now have the chance to 'try out' for England and if it doesn't work out can fall back to Scotland. I expect we'll see a lot of that as players hedge their bets on a big team and then drop down when it doesn't work out.

We have had some surprises the other way like Huw Jones and Rory Huchinson but most will go the 'wrong' way for us, largely because they are coming through another system. To be honest that's kind of fair enough, although obviously I'd rather they all played for us.
I hope you are wrong about players hedging their bets then moving down, that would be disastrous for us - are you suggesting they would accept 3 years of not playing international rugby to try with a bigger side and see if it works? That might be a bit of a stretch.
That's exactly what I am suggesting. If you are a young player of dual qualification who has come through the English system then you are much more likely to go down this route now. I said at the time that's what I thought the impact of this rule would be - the same for dual qualified NZ/pacific Island players etc. too. The potential career benefits of being in the system of an England/NZ/SA type team compared to Scotland are huge. Not just the money, but the career prospects for club rugby, the commercial opportunities while playing for the big team and the post-career opportunities too. The worst that can happen is you are discarded after a few games, and then you have the chance to pick up your international career again in your mid twenties. It's a no brainer tbh.
weegie01
Posts: 1003
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:34 pm

“When the rule changed, we were quickly aware of who that would apply to,” said Townsend, explaining the process behind McConnochie’s surprise call-up. “There were a couple who called us we weren’t aware of but Ruaridh was one we have known about his Scottish qualification for a while.
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/scotland ... land-pick/

So who were the others?

I had assumed he was talking about English players, but possibly more likely SH.
weegie01
Posts: 1003
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:34 pm

It is quite interesting that on their site almost all the Munster fans are wishing Healy well, and totally understand his decision.
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