Career Changes

[Jim Lahey]

I am completely and utterly bored with job in a commercial role for a FMCG manufacturer, so I'm considering a career switch (probably into IT/software development).

I am under qualified but over experienced in my current role. I was halfway through CIMA when covid hit then just binned the studying as my youngest was born.

I'm 33 with 3 kids, happily married, wife works PT in an admin role, have a mortgage but no other debt. I am the main bread-winner.

To switch into IT I'll have to take night classes at uni in all likelihood over the course of 2 or 3 years. Or I could knock out a Masters conversion course in a year FT. Then once I am qualified I'm looking at entry level salaries beneath what I'm currently on (but with considerable scope to grow obviously).

Has anyone here made such a transition under similar circumstances?

[Kiwias]

At 28, I was married with two children, had left a job in the tourism industry and moved to Japan to do freelance translation and interpreting, then at 33 switched to a job in the financial industry in Tokyo. my wife was not working at any point through this but somehow things worked out. I'd say that you should go for it if you can. But only if your wife is on board with it.

[Paddington Bear]

Am currently going through one (a couple of years younger than you). It’s requiring me to work part time in order to sit exams, then like you take a couple of years of entry level pay before earning more than previously, with scope for that to be significantly more.

As Kiwias says, this has to be a joint decision with all the consequences laid out rather than assumed that they are obvious. If you can I’d save up a bit that you can use for special occasions etc, as adjusting to a lower salary is harder than you think it will be.

More challenging was explaining what I was doing to older family members. It just seems that it was far more common 30ish years ago to get into somewhere out of school/college/uni and currently be in the process of retiring from the same trade/profession. I’d strongly recommend if you have family/friends in that bracket walking them through the reasons pretty thoroughly, also explaining the benefits you see. Not to mention the age you’ll likely retire at! I saw nothing positive about working another 35+ years in something that bored me and sense you feel much the same.

[ASMO]

My steer would be to get into the ITSEC space (IT/Cyber Security) It is currently experiencing massive growth with associated demand, you cannot get decent people with Cyber Security experience for love nor money. It is a big area but i would focus on SOC (Security Operations Center). Aim for your CISSP quals to begin with and work from there, preferably find a company that will even sponsor and pay you to go through them (lots do)

[Slick]

Without knowing anything about what you are wanting to move into I’d say go for it.

Life is short, work is long and you spend to much time doing it to hate it.

I didn’t really get any type of career until I was late 30’s and financially I’m way behind my peers at this stage. But I work the hours I want, enjoy what I do and see a path to get there without having the fear about work every day

[lemonhead]

Without knowing anything about what you are wanting to move into I’d say go for it.

Life is short, work is long and you spend to much time doing it to hate it.

I didn’t really get any type of career until I was late 30’s and financially I’m way behind my peers at this stage. But I work the hours I want, enjoy what I do and see a path to get there without having the fear about work every day

Pretty much this.

[Sandstorm]

My steer would be to get into the ITSEC space (IT/Cyber Security) It is currently experiencing massive growth with associated demand, you cannot get decent people with Cyber Security experience for love nor money. It is a big area but i would focus on SOC (Security Operations Center). Aim for your CISSP quals to begin with and work from there, preferably find a company that will even sponsor and pay you to go through them (lots do)

Good call on Cyber, it’s an area crying out for more good people.

[Blackmac]

If you think for a second you can afford to make the switch, go for it. I can't imagine the misery of working your whole life in a job you hate.

[Jock42]

My steer would be to get into the ITSEC space (IT/Cyber Security) It is currently experiencing massive growth with associated demand, you cannot get decent people with Cyber Security experience for love nor money. It is a big area but i would focus on SOC (Security Operations Center). Aim for your CISSP quals to begin with and work from there, preferably find a company that will even sponsor and pay you to go through them (lots do)

I've recently thought about this as I can use credits from the army to help pay for some of the retraining. I'm not sure I could spend the rest of my working life looking at a computer screen though.

[Peripheral]

I've worked a lot in IT / Finance so hopefully some of the following might be helpful:

1. You generally don't need a degree / masters initially in IT. Lots of people arrive with experience in different fields / certifications. We have people who used to be chefs, graphic artists, actors, scientists, accountants all with us. If you do get a role, then after a few months you'll get a better idea for what way you want to go and can specialise that way. In Ireland, for example, the likes of Dundalk IT offer part time evening certifications that will get you in the door.

2. Cyber is a really good call. There is silly money to be made as senior execs are terrified at how easy companies are getting hacked and how quickly a reputation can go as a result. The likes of Coursera can give you an initial view, then maybe start on on easy course like the CompTIA Security+ and work from there. If you are going to do Security, then Networking & PowerShell scripting are both excellent add ons. Again, Coursera to start, move to CompTIA and then for Networking you can follow the CISCO certification path and PowerShell is basically self taught - though I think MS do something.

3. Understanding of the Cloud & it's underpinning technologies are very popular. Azure / AWS both run their own courses that can be self taught.

4. Data Analytics is currently very cool. Can be more difficult to break into, but might be worth looking at specific certifications / career tracks. If you do want to go down this sort of track, then a maths based qualification is more common (at least in my experience). Most of the folk I know in this end are Masters or PhD level in mathematics / physics / astronomy etc.

5. If you are going to go down the coding route, just remember that approx. 5 million people a year get certified in JAVA and / or .Net languages. If you do want to go this route, then the likes of Python is very popular with the Data Analytics / Risk Management crowds.

Not sure if any of that is useful - but happy to answer any questions.

[JM2K6]

Cybersecurity already has too many people who have no idea what they're doing.

A lot of these suggestions are assuming an awful lot - what exactly do you think your strengths are, Jim?

[assfly]

Changing careers in your 30s is a bitch, especially if you want to try something different.

[ASMO]

My steer would be to get into the ITSEC space (IT/Cyber Security) It is currently experiencing massive growth with associated demand, you cannot get decent people with Cyber Security experience for love nor money. It is a big area but i would focus on SOC (Security Operations Center). Aim for your CISSP quals to begin with and work from there, preferably find a company that will even sponsor and pay you to go through them (lots do)

I've recently thought about this as I can use credits from the army to help pay for some of the retraining. I'm not sure I could spend the rest of my working life looking at a computer screen though.

Believe it or not, a lot of it is not just screen watching, i run a SOC team, its the forensics they love doing, research to understand a problem and working uot how to mitigate it, putting in systems to prevent Cyber breaches, its an ever moving feast, evidence gathering when people have done bad things to build a case (employees mainly in my experience). It is a really intereting job if you have an analytical mind

[ASMO]

Cybersecurity already has too many people who have no idea what they're doing.

A lot of these suggestions are assuming an awful lot - what exactly do you think your strengths are, Jim?

This is why anyone who is half decent is in huge demand, it is one of the largest growth areas in government for example.

[robmatic]

I'm partway through this process, took a year out to do a Master's degree at the age of 41. I found the study part of it really rewarding, especially after not getting much out of my first degree (in computer science, ironically enough). The jobhunting part of it has been pretty fruitless so far though, with fewer entry level jobs out there than I anticipated.

[Jock42]

My steer would be to get into the ITSEC space (IT/Cyber Security) It is currently experiencing massive growth with associated demand, you cannot get decent people with Cyber Security experience for love nor money. It is a big area but i would focus on SOC (Security Operations Center). Aim for your CISSP quals to begin with and work from there, preferably find a company that will even sponsor and pay you to go through them (lots do)

I've recently thought about this as I can use credits from the army to help pay for some of the retraining. I'm not sure I could spend the rest of my working life looking at a computer screen though.

Believe it or not, a lot of it is not just screen watching, i run a SOC team, its the forensics they love doing, research to understand a problem and working uot how to mitigate it, putting in systems to prevent Cyber breaches, its an ever moving feast, evidence gathering when people have done bad things to build a case (employees mainly in my experience). It is a really intereting job if you have an analytical mind

I hasn't realised all that. I might look seriously into it.

[inactionman]

I'm essentially in IT and I don't have an IT background.

One area you might want to look at is Business Analysis or architecture - the world of IT is getting much better at this, but there is still a massive issue of technology for technology's sake or building parochial systems and processes that don't plug into a broader enterprise. Billing systems that don't play well with shipping systems, for example, or customer management systems for one part of the business that don't segue with another part of the business, so you end up with multiple records for a customer that don't make sense (and which usually result in a well pissed-off customer)

It needs people who 'get' technology to a limited extent, but are adept at laying out how business is supposed to work (as an intention, not in terms of repeating the flawed existing) and working with the more techie areas to design and plan out what needs to happen.


I changed career from engineering design research to IT almost by happenstance in my early 30s, it wasn't much of a stretch as much of the research was focused upon how engineers use information in design so it wasn't a leap to looking at how information should be managed in the round.

I suggest this as it's more a career 'switching of points' than a complete change of trainline and is a transition rather than step-change.

Anyway, good luck, as many above have said, life's too short to just sit and waste away.

[Jim Lahey]

Cybersecurity already has too many people who have no idea what they're doing.

A lot of these suggestions are assuming an awful lot - what exactly do you think your strengths are, Jim?

I enjoy problem solving. Was very good at maths in school but didn't pursue it at Uni (I was shite at statistics but good at algebra and mechanics).

My current role involves pricing our products for customers, which involves a significant amount of operational data analysis from the factory, then generating profitability reports etc., so I enjoy messy, unstructured data, and then making some sense out of it.

Cheers for the suggestions folks, will look into cyber security. I have little to no interest in formally going back to uni but would prefer taking professional exams and self-study tbh, given I have a pretty hectic work/family schedule.

[inactionman]

My steer would be to get into the ITSEC space (IT/Cyber Security) It is currently experiencing massive growth with associated demand, you cannot get decent people with Cyber Security experience for love nor money. It is a big area but i would focus on SOC (Security Operations Center). Aim for your CISSP quals to begin with and work from there, preferably find a company that will even sponsor and pay you to go through them (lots do)

I've recently thought about this as I can use credits from the army to help pay for some of the retraining. I'm not sure I could spend the rest of my working life looking at a computer screen though.

Believe it or not, a lot of it is not just screen watching, i run a SOC team, its the forensics they love doing, research to understand a problem and working uot how to mitigate it, putting in systems to prevent Cyber breaches, its an ever moving feast, evidence gathering when people have done bad things to build a case (employees mainly in my experience). It is a really intereting job if you have an analytical mind

Many of the guys I've spoken to who have worked in the more operational side of security said they quit because of the work-life implication -many night shifts (even 9-5 businesses have 24hr operations), and all-hands-on-deck panic stations in the event of a breach.

There are other security roles - penetration testing etc -that don't need this, but this might be a consideration.

[JM2K6]

Cybersecurity already has too many people who have no idea what they're doing.

A lot of these suggestions are assuming an awful lot - what exactly do you think your strengths are, Jim?

This is why anyone who is half decent is in huge demand, it is one of the largest growth areas in government for example.

OK, but "half decent" is more than just "completed the courses" IMO. I've met several people over the years who changed course to go into cybersecurity and without fail the ones who were non-technical to begin with essentially ended up being glorified sales people in terms of just parroting things they didn't truly understand. In such an important sector it's always given me pause when these recommendations are made with no real understanding of whether the person would be a good fit for it or not.

[inactionman]

Cybersecurity already has too many people who have no idea what they're doing.

A lot of these suggestions are assuming an awful lot - what exactly do you think your strengths are, Jim?

This is why anyone who is half decent is in huge demand, it is one of the largest growth areas in government for example.

OK, but "half decent" is more than just "completed the courses" IMO. I've met several people over the years who changed course to go into cybersecurity and without fail the ones who were non-technical to begin with essentially ended up being glorified sales people in terms of just parroting things they didn't truly understand. In such an important sector it's always given me pause when these recommendations are made with no real understanding of whether the person would be a good fit for it or not.

I'm not sure we're quite arranging formal interviews just yet - these are just ideas which Jim's entirety free to pursue or ignore.

[Sandstorm]

This is why anyone who is half decent is in huge demand, it is one of the largest growth areas in government for example.

OK, but "half decent" is more than just "completed the courses" IMO. I've met several people over the years who changed course to go into cybersecurity and without fail the ones who were non-technical to begin with essentially ended up being glorified sales people in terms of just parroting things they didn't truly understand. In such an important sector it's always given me pause when these recommendations are made with no real understanding of whether the person would be a good fit for it or not.

I'm not sure we're quite arranging formal interviews just yet - these are just ideas which Jim's entirety free to pursue or ignore.

His dour Scot demeanour will be perfect when explaining to the client how many holes they have in their operation.

[ASMO]

OK, but "half decent" is more than just "completed the courses" IMO. I've met several people over the years who changed course to go into cybersecurity and without fail the ones who were non-technical to begin with essentially ended up being glorified sales people in terms of just parroting things they didn't truly understand. In such an important sector it's always given me pause when these recommendations are made with no real understanding of whether the person would be a good fit for it or not.

I'm not sure we're quite arranging formal interviews just yet - these are just ideas which Jim's entirety free to pursue or ignore.

His dour Scot demeanour will be perfect when explaining to the client how many holes they have in their operation.

And what it will cost to remediate them, and that upgrades to legacy systems will be needed as the OS is out of support :-)

[inactionman]

I'm not sure we're quite arranging formal interviews just yet - these are just ideas which Jim's entirety free to pursue or ignore.

His dour Scot demeanour will be perfect when explaining to the client how many holes they have in their operation.

And what it will cost to remediate them, and that upgrades to legacy systems will be needed as the OS is out of support :-)

Just pay two recent redundancies/retirees a grand or so a day as consultants for support, and job's a good 'un.

(I say this as pretty much one out of two businesses I've worked for have required this - most of which are large multinational)

[JM2K6]

Cybersecurity already has too many people who have no idea what they're doing.

A lot of these suggestions are assuming an awful lot - what exactly do you think your strengths are, Jim?

I enjoy problem solving. Was very good at maths in school but didn't pursue it at Uni (I was shite at statistics but good at algebra and mechanics).

My current role involves pricing our products for customers, which involves a significant amount of operational data analysis from the factory, then generating profitability reports etc., so I enjoy messy, unstructured data, and then making some sense out of it.

Cheers for the suggestions folks, will look into cyber security. I have little to no interest in formally going back to uni but would prefer taking professional exams and self-study tbh, given I have a pretty hectic work/family schedule.

OK, that's an interesting background actually! Actually here's a bit of a questionnaire for you - just thinking about the roles we hire for that aren't 100% technical, even though we're a tech company; it can be a huge success and despite my comments on Cybersecurity I have a lot of faith in the idea that the right person can make a success of any role that isn't completely technical.

- Have you been client facing at all or was it all internal data crunching?
- Do you have any formal business qualifications?
- How would you describe your interest in IT, your personal technical skill level, and your understanding of how the internet works?
- Were you generally working in a linear fashion (project A followed by project B followed by project C, etc) or spinning plates and juggling multiple tasks?
- Did you interact with other IT-related teams, i.e. software development, data analysts, etc, or was it all largely self-contained?
- What actually interested you about the job you've been doing, and what was the boring bit? What was the dealbreaker that made you want to change career?
- If you had to invent a role for yourself in IT, without going into technical details, what exactly would you want to be doing? Broad strokes, e.g. "I want to be doing something where I can spend my time on complex problems without too much interference", or "I want to be working in / leading a team that gets interesting problems to deal with all the time".

This isn't a job interview or anything, just seeing if we can work out what a good fit looks like for you.

It's something I've been thinking about a lot recently. Not changing career, but how people thrive in certain types of role and the reasons for that. I've been in the IT industry since I was 17 but have spent the last 13 years at one company, which was 3 people plus me at the time and is now 60+ with huge clients worldwide. In that time I've basically done every single technical job in the company bar full-on development at some stage or another, and it's been almost impossible to describe in simple terms exactly what I do because I was doing so many different things. In the last year we've been working to define my role and my future, and creating a dedicated team in order to do all the stuff that I do that isn't easily done by anyone else. Being able to define my role in this way is a real privilege because I get to go "I am responsible for a billion things - let's cut it down to the ones I'm a) actually good at, and b) actually interested in, and spin off the rest to other teams or create software solutions to replace me", which also means understanding exactly what I'm good at and why I'm good at it.

It's never been boring for me and that's why it's worked, so I'm very much on board with the idea that if you get smart people doing jobs they find interesting, then that is perfect and the details will largely look after themselves.

[JM2K6]

This is why anyone who is half decent is in huge demand, it is one of the largest growth areas in government for example.

OK, but "half decent" is more than just "completed the courses" IMO. I've met several people over the years who changed course to go into cybersecurity and without fail the ones who were non-technical to begin with essentially ended up being glorified sales people in terms of just parroting things they didn't truly understand. In such an important sector it's always given me pause when these recommendations are made with no real understanding of whether the person would be a good fit for it or not.

I'm not sure we're quite arranging formal interviews just yet - these are just ideas which Jim's entirety free to pursue or ignore.

For sure - it's more that it's such an important sector and for whatever reason I've seen a lot of really unsuitable people make the switch to it and add to a problem rather than solving it. It's a very particular problem I've noticed, and Cybersecurity always seem to come up whenever people are talking about getting into an IT career!

[Jim Lahey]

Cybersecurity already has too many people who have no idea what they're doing.

A lot of these suggestions are assuming an awful lot - what exactly do you think your strengths are, Jim?

I enjoy problem solving. Was very good at maths in school but didn't pursue it at Uni (I was shite at statistics but good at algebra and mechanics).

My current role involves pricing our products for customers, which involves a significant amount of operational data analysis from the factory, then generating profitability reports etc., so I enjoy messy, unstructured data, and then making some sense out of it.

Cheers for the suggestions folks, will look into cyber security. I have little to no interest in formally going back to uni but would prefer taking professional exams and self-study tbh, given I have a pretty hectic work/family schedule.

OK, that's an interesting background actually! Actually here's a bit of a questionnaire for you - just thinking about the roles we hire for that aren't 100% technical, even though we're a tech company; it can be a huge success and despite my comments on Cybersecurity I have a lot of faith in the idea that the right person can make a success of any role that isn't completely technical.

- Have you been client facing at all or was it all internal data crunching? 50% client facing, 50% internal
- Do you have any formal business qualifications? Part qualified accountant, no interest in completing it
- How would you describe your interest in IT, your personal technical skill level, and your understanding of how the internet works? Fairly competent knowledge of how systems speak to each other without technical detail
- Were you generally working in a linear fashion (project A followed by project B followed by project C, etc) or spinning plates and juggling multiple tasks? Juggling multiple tasks
- Did you interact with other IT-related teams, i.e. software development, data analysts, etc, or was it all largely self-contained? Not really. My company has massively underinvested in its IT infrastructure over the years. I've been down on the shop floor doing audits of how long it takes machines to run products etc., so I can create assumptions for my pricing/costing model. I have been involved in a few IT relaed projects like process mapping our sales process, and currently working with external developers to incorporate my model onto our ERP
- What actually interested you about the job you've been doing, and what was the boring bit? What was the dealbreaker that made you want to change career? There is a ceiling to what I do. I set parameters for prices for our sales guys to ensure we are hitting profit targets etc. And keeping our costs under control. Ive been doing this for 3 years and my role hasn't changed, so boredom and the grass growing under my feet are the main issues.
- If you had to invent a role for yourself in IT, without going into technical details, what exactly would you want to be doing? Broad strokes, e.g. "I want to be doing something where I can spend my time on complex problems without too much interference", or "I want to be working in / leading a team that gets interesting problems to deal with all the time".

I want to be involved in a fun environment. Manufacturing has too many sacred cows that people in the business 30 years are afraid to slaughter. An IT environment I would imagine is less hung up on the past as the past becomes obsolete a lot quicker. That faster paced environment would suit my need for stimulation

In terms of what I would actually do, I would like to be creative. Kaking systems for users to use with realworld application. Taking feedback, improving it, looking for or thinking of things that don't yet exist but would add value of they did.

This isn't a job interview or anything, just seeing if we can work out what a good fit looks like for you.

It's something I've been thinking about a lot recently. Not changing career, but how people thrive in certain types of role and the reasons for that. I've been in the IT industry since I was 17 but have spent the last 13 years at one company, which was 3 people plus me at the time and is now 60+ with huge clients worldwide. In that time I've basically done every single technical job in the company bar full-on development at some stage or another, and it's been almost impossible to describe in simple terms exactly what I do because I was doing so many different things. In the last year we've been working to define my role and my future, and creating a dedicated team in order to do all the stuff that I do that isn't easily done by anyone else. Being able to define my role in this way is a real privilege because I get to go "I am responsible for a billion things - let's cut it down to the ones I'm a) actually good at, and b) actually interested in, and spin off the rest to other teams or create software solutions to replace me", which also means understanding exactly what I'm good at and why I'm good at it.

It's never been boring for me and that's why it's worked, so I'm very much on board with the idea that if you get smart people doing jobs they find interesting, then that is perfect and the details will largely look after themselves.

My general background is a bit funky . . .

Studied history at uni, got onto a business exchange programme to the US for 2 semesters in California, where I did accounting, economics and Spanish.

Graduated and moved to Barcelona for 2 years with my missus, worked for Citi in a call centre type role. Moved to South America with my missus for 2.5 years, worked as a financial journalist for a US news outlet looking at Colombian, Peruvian and Chilean companies with dollar denominated debt. Fun job amd great money, fair bit of travel around the region as well before I had kids. Didn't know much Spanish beforehand but would be close to fluent now.

Came back home into a Finance Manager role, part-qualified management account, had 3 kids etc. Now in a commercial manager role. So I sacrificed the traditional career path for travel and pissing about dont regret a second.

As for your questions, see above in bold.

[ASMO]

I enjoy problem solving. Was very good at maths in school but didn't pursue it at Uni (I was shite at statistics but good at algebra and mechanics).

My current role involves pricing our products for customers, which involves a significant amount of operational data analysis from the factory, then generating profitability reports etc., so I enjoy messy, unstructured data, and then making some sense out of it.

Cheers for the suggestions folks, will look into cyber security. I have little to no interest in formally going back to uni but would prefer taking professional exams and self-study tbh, given I have a pretty hectic work/family schedule.

OK, that's an interesting background actually! Actually here's a bit of a questionnaire for you - just thinking about the roles we hire for that aren't 100% technical, even though we're a tech company; it can be a huge success and despite my comments on Cybersecurity I have a lot of faith in the idea that the right person can make a success of any role that isn't completely technical.

- Have you been client facing at all or was it all internal data crunching? 50% client facing, 50% internal
- Do you have any formal business qualifications? Part qualified accountant, no interest in completing it
- How would you describe your interest in IT, your personal technical skill level, and your understanding of how the internet works? Fairly competent knowledge of how systems speak to each other without technical detail
- Were you generally working in a linear fashion (project A followed by project B followed by project C, etc) or spinning plates and juggling multiple tasks? Juggling multiple tasks
- Did you interact with other IT-related teams, i.e. software development, data analysts, etc, or was it all largely self-contained? Not really. My company has massively underinvested in its IT infrastructure over the years. I've been down on the shop floor doing audits of how long it takes machines to run products etc., so I can create assumptions for my pricing/costing model. I have been involved in a few IT relaed projects like process mapping our sales process, and currently working with external developers to incorporate my model onto our ERP
- What actually interested you about the job you've been doing, and what was the boring bit? What was the dealbreaker that made you want to change career? There is a ceiling to what I do. I set parameters for prices for our sales guys to ensure we are hitting profit targets etc. And keeping our costs under control. Ive been doing this for 3 years and my role hasn't changed, so boredom and the grass growing under my feet are the main issues.
- If you had to invent a role for yourself in IT, without going into technical details, what exactly would you want to be doing? Broad strokes, e.g. "I want to be doing something where I can spend my time on complex problems without too much interference", or "I want to be working in / leading a team that gets interesting problems to deal with all the time".

I want to be involved in a fun environment. Manufacturing has too many sacred cows that people in the business 30 years are afraid to slaughter. An IT environment I would imagine is less hung up on the past as the past becomes obsolete a lot quicker. That faster paced environment would suit my need for stimulation

In terms of what I would actually do, I would like to be creative. Kaking systems for users to use with realworld application. Taking feedback, improving it, looking for or thinking of things that don't yet exist but would add value of they did.

This isn't a job interview or anything, just seeing if we can work out what a good fit looks like for you.

It's something I've been thinking about a lot recently. Not changing career, but how people thrive in certain types of role and the reasons for that. I've been in the IT industry since I was 17 but have spent the last 13 years at one company, which was 3 people plus me at the time and is now 60+ with huge clients worldwide. In that time I've basically done every single technical job in the company bar full-on development at some stage or another, and it's been almost impossible to describe in simple terms exactly what I do because I was doing so many different things. In the last year we've been working to define my role and my future, and creating a dedicated team in order to do all the stuff that I do that isn't easily done by anyone else. Being able to define my role in this way is a real privilege because I get to go "I am responsible for a billion things - let's cut it down to the ones I'm a) actually good at, and b) actually interested in, and spin off the rest to other teams or create software solutions to replace me", which also means understanding exactly what I'm good at and why I'm good at it.

It's never been boring for me and that's why it's worked, so I'm very much on board with the idea that if you get smart people doing jobs they find interesting, then that is perfect and the details will largely look after themselves.

My general background is a bit funky . . .

Studied history at uni, got onto a business exchange programme to the US for 2 semesters in California, where I did accounting, economics and Spanish.

Graduated and moved to Barcelona for 2 years with my missus, worked for Citi in a call centre type role. Moved to South America with my missus for 2.5 years, worked as a financial journalist for a US news outlet looking at Colombian, Peruvian and Chilean companies with dollar denominated debt. Fun job amd great money, fair bit of travel around the region as well before I had kids. Didn't know much Spanish beforehand but would be close to fluent now.

Came back home into a Finance Manager role, part-qualified management account, had 3 kids etc. Now in a commercial manager role. So I sacrificed the traditional career path for travel and pissing about dont regret a second.

As for your questions, see above in bold.

"In terms of what I would actually do, I would like to be creative. Kaking systems for users to use with realworld application. Taking feedback, improving it, looking for or thinking of things that don't yet exist but would add value of they did."

What you are in effect describing there is a digital product manager.

[JM2K6]

That is a way more interesting path than mine

In our company you'd immediately be an interesting option as an account manager for our clients - it would require picking up the technical side of what we do, understanding the client's problems and requirements, understanding the resources available on our side, project management, etc etc, all of which seems very much within your capabilities. But I think you'd also make sense (with a bit of training and education) as being a decision maker / leader in one of our product teams. With an understanding of modern core development practices under your belt you'd bring a hell of a lot to the table as someone who organises the code monkeys while liasing with internal and external stakeholders OH GOD I HATE MYSELF FOR SAYING THAT and trying to gear everything towards the company goals and strategy.

But ultimately I'd say that outside of roles that demand specific skills you don't have and can't easily pick up, you'd probably do really well in a company like ours. We're not a startup but we retain some of the feel of a startup as we're basically unique in what we do - and there's no way you can get bored in places like that. Being a project manager in an established big company is boring as shit. Being one in a startup is like trying to walk a tightrope when someone's shoved a firework up your arse and you're being divebombed by crows. And smaller companies usually demand people wear multiple hats, engage in lateral thinking, and produce solutions that can save money and time rather than everything being clearly parcelled out to teams that do one thing really well.

Your background is really well rounded and while you don't bring the security of specific experience that the big places will look for, forward-thinking management teams would definitely be keen to take a look at you for any role that involves being part of the interface between clients and internal teams that would make use of your existing skillset.

Some IT environments have a lot of sacred cows, btw. Legacy environments are rarer now - mostly in the bigger companies - but where they exist they are dug in like an Alabama tick and entire careers are built around using the right oils and saying the right incantations to keep things going the way they always have been and the way they always will be. It's such a different world that we actively avoid trying to hire people in technical roles when they've spent a decent amount of time at big banks etc; it's a stultifying structure and it's rewards the opposite sort of personality that we're looking for in general.

[Paddington Bear]

On topic, one of the reasons I looked for a career change was trying to effect change in large companies around the IT sphere is like running repeatedly into brick walls, as people with zero ambition or interest torpedo 95% of anything that might help, and the 5% that gets through stumbles upon people with IQs that on a good day might approach room temperature.

[mat the expat]

My steer would be to get into the ITSEC space (IT/Cyber Security) It is currently experiencing massive growth with associated demand, you cannot get decent people with Cyber Security experience for love nor money. It is a big area but i would focus on SOC (Security Operations Center). Aim for your CISSP quals to begin with and work from there, preferably find a company that will even sponsor and pay you to go through them (lots do)

Good call on Cyber, it’s an area crying out for more good people.

Not sure about there but in Oz there are lots of underpaid good people and loads of older Spivs who know it's the next big thing and cashing in via their contacts

I've thouht about crossing over into a TAM role but can't face it

[ASMO]

Good place to start, have a look at this and see if it ticks any boxes for you

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/certi ... s-analyst/

[inactionman]

You might want to look at Skills for the Information Age (SFIA) as it lists a set of skills and competences that contribute to certain types of role - you can see what you've got/want to develop and where it tends to lead.

https://sfia-online.org/en/sfia-8

To ASMO's point, there's an info and cyber security pathway which highlights the sorts of competencies that are relevant to an area:

https://sfia-online.org/en/sfia-8/sfia- ... th=/glance

A lot of job roles in IT will actually refer to this (if not by name) in their job adverts - I'm seeing it in large corporates and more and more in public sector. Handy at least to see what skills you might look to develop.

[JM2K6]

Oh yeah - avoid large corporates and the public sector

[inactionman]

Oh yeah - avoid large corporates and the public sector

If you want someone to pay for your career development and training, they're not a bad place to look. If you don't mind being driven gradually insane by insane policies, insane inertia and insane colleagues.

Don't be a contractor, as then all the training is on you - on your time and dollar. I'm considering going back to permanent employment as I want to do an MSc (I was approaching my final interview for an MSc out of Bristol when we upped sticks to Edinburgh) and I'm not keen on paying for it.

[JM2K6]

Oh yeah - avoid large corporates and the public sector

If you want someone to pay for your career development and training, they're not a bad place to look. If you don't mind being driven gradually insane by insane policies, insane inertia and insane colleagues.

Don't be a contractor, as then all the training is on you - on your time and dollar. I'm considering going back to permanent employment as I want to do an MSc (I was approaching my final interview for an MSc out of Bristol when we upped sticks to Edinburgh) and I'm not keen on paying for it.

Companies that live in the space between startups and mature enterprises also pay for career development and training, tbf. But I just think that if you're changing career because you're bored and you're into dynamic environments, big corporates & the public sector are the last places to look.

[inactionman]

Oh yeah - avoid large corporates and the public sector

If you want someone to pay for your career development and training, they're not a bad place to look. If you don't mind being driven gradually insane by insane policies, insane inertia and insane colleagues.

Don't be a contractor, as then all the training is on you - on your time and dollar. I'm considering going back to permanent employment as I want to do an MSc (I was approaching my final interview for an MSc out of Bristol when we upped sticks to Edinburgh) and I'm not keen on paying for it.

Companies that live in the space between startups and mature enterprises also pay for career development and training, tbf. But I just think that if you're changing career because you're bored and you're into dynamic environments, big corporates & the public sector are the last places to look.

Sure, it's more that larger places haver more formalised approaches and more obvious ways to progress, but there's no reason you won't get that in smaller enterprises.

I've actually enjoyed working with larger companies as the issues are more the ones I'm used to dealing with, but these are less IT and more architectural (read: more about getting people from different units/projects playing nicely).

I've worked for a startup and it was appalling, just a bunch of egos ignoring any advice and generally being arses. There's sometimes a reason for policy and process, annoying as it is.

[ASMO]

Oh yeah - avoid large corporates and the public sector

If you want someone to pay for your career development and training, they're not a bad place to look. If you don't mind being driven gradually insane by insane policies, insane inertia and insane colleagues.

Don't be a contractor, as then all the training is on you - on your time and dollar. I'm considering going back to permanent employment as I want to do an MSc (I was approaching my final interview for an MSc out of Bristol when we upped sticks to Edinburgh) and I'm not keen on paying for it.

Companies that live in the space between startups and mature enterprises also pay for career development and training, tbf. But I just think that if you're changing career because you're bored and you're into dynamic environments, big corporates & the public sector are the last places to look.

Have to disagree with part of that, Public sector is definately a viable option now, the change in approach and attitude to digital is huge, and there is massive investment in it across the board. Access to paid for training is now standard, time off for study and exams comes as a part of the role. They are now investing more in people than buying contractors in, and if you want a good place to start you could do a lot worse right now.

[JM2K6]

If you want someone to pay for your career development and training, they're not a bad place to look. If you don't mind being driven gradually insane by insane policies, insane inertia and insane colleagues.

Don't be a contractor, as then all the training is on you - on your time and dollar. I'm considering going back to permanent employment as I want to do an MSc (I was approaching my final interview for an MSc out of Bristol when we upped sticks to Edinburgh) and I'm not keen on paying for it.

Companies that live in the space between startups and mature enterprises also pay for career development and training, tbf. But I just think that if you're changing career because you're bored and you're into dynamic environments, big corporates & the public sector are the last places to look.

Have to disagree with part of that, Public sector is definately a viable option now, the change in approach and attitude to digital is huge, and there is massive investment in it across the board. Access to paid for training is now standard, time off for study and exams comes as a part of the role. They are now investing more in people than buying contractors in, and if you want a good place to start you could do a lot worse right now.

I wasn't saying that the public sector doesn't do that, just that it's quite common in the smaller private space now as well.

[Line6 HXFX]

Gone from steel worker, musician, microsoft access systems developer, to carer and now travel agent.

Bought a GMT watch and everything.

The cut price holidays are supposed to be great.