Well done on the most Scottish post of the week
2023 Six Nations
-
inactionman
- Posts: 3065
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:37 am
I'm happy that there's some recognition and mitigation of remorse and acceptance of liability, perhaps better expressed that bans can be increased if the transgressor clearly does not accept they've transgressed, but agree entirely that there should be a closer scrutiny of past behaviour. The mitigations for claimed remorse seem pretty hollow when they've been up before the beak on this sort of thing before.
If they were truly remorseful and accept their behaviour was not acceptable, then they shouldn't do it again. If they're charged for the same/similar offence again in reasonably short order, you operate on the basis that it's reckless or intentional and consider it as aggravating. That's surely a better assessment, rather than a few empty words which are clearly spoken in an attempt to gain mitigation.
If they were truly remorseful and accept their behaviour was not acceptable, then they shouldn't do it again. If they're charged for the same/similar offence again in reasonably short order, you operate on the basis that it's reckless or intentional and consider it as aggravating. That's surely a better assessment, rather than a few empty words which are clearly spoken in an attempt to gain mitigation.
And, a 3 week ban has very little effect - it just gives the player an enforced rest - he'll probably still end up playing the same amount of games, in a season, that he would have without a ban.SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 10:56 amAgree entirelyWe've probably posted about this before, but the whole thing needs ripping up. You shouldn't get weeks off for admitting guilt and managing to behave, the totality of a previous record is important, what's deemed low and middle range seems completely arbitrary etc.
It's farcical!
Tbf, he will miss international games, which isn't meaningless (English players get around 20k/game, French players are probably on similar?) and may have screwed up his international career given his past history and the risk of playing him in a WC knockout.
As I said to him on Twitter, it’s particularly ridiculous in view of the fact that two of his three red cards have been for actual violent conduct (punching Ritchie in the face and the recent flying headbutt) and not technical reds given for head contact.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 10:05 amsockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:47 amWe've seen with other judgements that they don't consider repeat offender in the way that fans do. For example, Farrell's recent ban was his third for a high tackle, but the judgement mentioned that they discounted the one from 2016 given the time that had elapsed. Personally, I think that if you committed the same offence in 2016, 2020 and 2022 then that shows no growth from the player over a long period and that absolutely should be part of any sanction consideration, but disciplinary panels obviously disagree.weegie01 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:25 am
They started at the minimum of 6 weeks, and reduced it due to ''the player’s early acknowledgement that the incident warranted a red card; the lack of intent and premeditation and clearly expressed remorse'.
I do not understand why this started at the minimum, nor why the above applied to a serial offender. And he can lose one of those weeks by going to tackle school.
Houas didn't even commit the same offence as last time.
There is a guy on the Glasgow forum who researches an incredible amount of rugby stats, he also writes for various online publications. This is what he says
"Mohamed Haouas:
1st half red card for France v Scotland, 8th March 2020 - punching.
3-week ban. Games missed - 0 (Covid)
1st half red card for Montpellier v Lyon, 30th April 2022 - no arms charge.
1-week ban. Games missed - 1
1st half red card for France v Scotland, 26th February 2023 - dangerous tackle.
4-week ban, reduced by 1 week if coaching intervention completed. Games missed - most likely 3.
So a player with 3 red cards in the space of less than 3 years will have received a total punishment of 4 games missed."
The rugby authorities dress this up as a legal process and bestow on it a huge amount of gravitas, but as far as I'm aware criminal courts take previous convictions into account as aggravating factors, so I think the pretendy seriousness and self aggrandising of the rugby hearings are actually quite laughable.
The press release on Haouas;
(there are ) "no aggravating factors and accepted mitigating factors including the player’s early acknowledgement that the incident warranted a red card; the lack of intent and premeditation and clearly expressed remorse"
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
Yeah, they have this old memory of being grouped with us for so long that they are absolutely paranoid about us. It's mental.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
True, in his case, but normally not so much. Take Farrell's ban before the 6n............
Jackman's career as a coach demonstrates what he knows about evaluating players. Got Grenoble relegated from the Top14 and made the Dragons look even shittier than normal.
Seeing as that tweet has disappeared for some reason -
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
So he falls firmly into the 'weird Irish pundits' category mentioned then?
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
It was bad enough that we had a few days of The Swarm descending on here without their pundits also mining the English rugby thread for content :(
Not going down this road with you, CM11. You asked for links and got a couple, there will be more as we get nearer.CM11 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 2:58 pmOk. So why pay any attention to a 'weird' pundit then?
Mainstream view is it's going to a tough proposition and we're all looking forward to it. What more needs to be said?
No, that's the point really.Any idea what comments he's referring to?
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
I actually quite like Andy Dunne (though I fucking despise Jackman). He's a different type of voice who generally has something more interesting to say than most other pundits.
However I've no idea what the "comments" he is referring to are and certainly a 2+ score prediction is ambitious. It's not however beyond the realms of possibility though, we did Wales by 3+ scores and France by 2. It could easily happen. So unfortunately could us getting beaten by some Finn Russell special.
For what its worth I think it will be a cracking game and I hope we end up on top by more than a score - just to give my nerves a break before the final whistle.
However I've no idea what the "comments" he is referring to are and certainly a 2+ score prediction is ambitious. It's not however beyond the realms of possibility though, we did Wales by 3+ scores and France by 2. It could easily happen. So unfortunately could us getting beaten by some Finn Russell special.
For what its worth I think it will be a cracking game and I hope we end up on top by more than a score - just to give my nerves a break before the final whistle.
That's the thing, you speak to any Scottish supporter or player and I think they would agree - I'm basing the players response from what they have been saying in the press here. But every year some of your lads start up with this thing that's been said. It's never specific and never allocated to anyone in particular. It's weirdPornDog wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:14 pm I actually quite like Andy Dunne (though I fucking despise Jackman). He's a different type of voice who generally has something more interesting to say than most other pundits.
However I've no idea what the "comments" he is referring to are and certainly a 2+ score prediction is ambitious. It's not however beyond the realms of possibility though, we did Wales by 3+ scores and France by 2. It could easily happen. So unfortunately could us getting beaten by some Finn Russell special.
For what its worth I think it will be a cracking game and I hope we end up on top by more than a score - just to give my nerves a break before the final whistle.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
To be fair your nerves would get a break if we were winning by 20 as well.PornDog wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:14 pm I actually quite like Andy Dunne (though I fucking despise Jackman). He's a different type of voice who generally has something more interesting to say than most other pundits.
However I've no idea what the "comments" he is referring to are and certainly a 2+ score prediction is ambitious. It's not however beyond the realms of possibility though, we did Wales by 3+ scores and France by 2. It could easily happen. So unfortunately could us getting beaten by some Finn Russell special.
For what its worth I think it will be a cracking game and I hope we end up on top by more than a score - just to give my nerves a break before the final whistle.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:22 pmTo be fair your nerves would get a break if we were winning by 20 as well.PornDog wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:14 pm I actually quite like Andy Dunne (though I fucking despise Jackman). He's a different type of voice who generally has something more interesting to say than most other pundits.
However I've no idea what the "comments" he is referring to are and certainly a 2+ score prediction is ambitious. It's not however beyond the realms of possibility though, we did Wales by 3+ scores and France by 2. It could easily happen. So unfortunately could us getting beaten by some Finn Russell special.
For what its worth I think it will be a cracking game and I hope we end up on top by more than a score - just to give my nerves a break before the final whistle.
That's the spiritSlick, can't say I recall similar from previous years! I think Andy dunne's wife might be Scottish though, I certainly seem to remember some Irish pundit saying that previously and I think it was he. So maybe he's talking about the grief he's gotten personally from the in laws?
It gets worse. This is URC not international, but the guy didn't plead guilty and didn't show any remorse, but still got the 50% discount. WTF.
https://www.unitedrugby.com/latest/news ... uan-dreyer
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 4:03 pmIt gets worse. This is URC not international, but the guy didn't plead guilty and didn't show any remorse, but still got the 50% discount. WTF.
https://www.unitedrugby.com/latest/news ... uan-dreyer
In the Player’s responses to the Panel overseeing the disciplinary process (Tommy Dalton, Chair (Ireland), Gordon Black (Ireland) & Nigel Williams (Wales)), he had accepted that he had committed an act of foul play which warranted a Red Card.
Everyone on the forum gets Google Translate out.
-
inactionman
- Posts: 3065
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:37 am
Who is he talking about 'in that particular group of Scottish players' who apparently talk a lot?
Ryan Wilson is/was a bit of a knacker, but can't say I've noticed much untoward outside that. Except Hogg's barnet. That's inexcusable.
Ryan Wilson is/was a bit of a knacker, but can't say I've noticed much untoward outside that. Except Hogg's barnet. That's inexcusable.
Or, indeed Scotland getting beaten by some Finn Russell special.PornDog wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:14 pm I actually quite like Andy Dunne (though I fucking despise Jackman). He's a different type of voice who generally has something more interesting to say than most other pundits.
However I've no idea what the "comments" he is referring to are and certainly a 2+ score prediction is ambitious. It's not however beyond the realms of possibility though, we did Wales by 3+ scores and France by 2. It could easily happen. So unfortunately could us getting beaten by some Finn Russell special.
For what its worth I think it will be a cracking game and I hope we end up on top by more than a score - just to give my nerves a break before the final whistle.
And I suspect that's why some of the pundits mentioned would prefer a "safer" outhalf playing.
You pays your money and you takes your choice.
It's a bit odd to be honest, TV, radio and online saying it's going to be absolutely terrible and all sorts of things are going to go tits up, but all the weather apps seem to say it won't be that bad at all.CM11 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:30 amSunday looks fine.
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/fo ... 2023-03-12
Not that it can be predicted with much certainly yet.
Murrayfield itself will be fine, just a bit worried about supporters getting here, including my Irish mates coming up from London.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
Slick wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:33 amIt's a bit odd to be honest, TV, radio and online saying it's going to be absolutely terrible and all sorts of things are going to go tits up, but all the weather apps seem to say it won't be that bad at all.CM11 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:30 amSunday looks fine.
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/fo ... 2023-03-12
Not that it can be predicted with much certainly yet.
Murrayfield itself will be fine, just a bit worried about supporters getting here, including my Irish mates coming up from London.
Fingers crossed.
-
fishfoodie
- Posts: 8223
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:25 pm
we're nearly at the weekend, they've announced the U20s teams for Friday
-
fishfoodie
- Posts: 8223
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:25 pm
I think we'll get three good (Senior) matches this weekend, there's a lot at stake all around.