The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Yr Alban]

82-7 to Ireland.

A dark day for Scottish rugby, blimey!

Jesus suffering Christ.

How have we fallen so far behind?

[KingBlairhorn]

Apologies for butting in, Robbie Smith has been player really well at hooker for Saints since moving from Newcastle, good darts, solid around the pitch, a couple of tries and MotM tonight. Have Scotland ever had a look at him at all?

He’s a fair way off a full cap given the players we have available but with Brown, McInally and Cherry all near the end of their careers there is likely a spot opening up beside Turner and Ashman. Harrison is very good though as is Blyth-Lafferty plus the likes of Jake Kerr are still kicking around too.

[I like neeps]

82-7 to Ireland.

A dark day for Scottish rugby, blimey!

Jesus suffering Christ.

How have we fallen so far behind?

We don't have pathways that are fit for purpose sadly. There's only about 4 good clubs, and 4 good schools in the country.

[Oxbow]

Apologies for butting in, Robbie Smith has been player really well at hooker for Saints since moving from Newcastle, good darts, solid around the pitch, a couple of tries and MotM tonight. Have Scotland ever had a look at him at all?

He’s a fair way off a full cap given the players we have available but with Brown, McInally and Cherry all near the end of their careers there is likely a spot opening up beside Turner and Ashman. Harrison is very good though as is Blyth-Lafferty plus the likes of Jake Kerr are still kicking around too.

Cheers, I don't really know much about the depth of Scottish hookers. I've been really impressed with him and see he's only 23, so plenty of time yet. One to keep an eye on.

[Yr Alban]

I’m starting to get a really sick feeling about Sunday. I expect a defeat, but I’m starting to fear a hammering. I know this is partly down to that awful U20 game, but none of our players seem to have a clue how to play against any Irish side. I bet we concede a try within 5 minutes of the start - we always seem to give decent teams a gimme. After that it could get ugly.

I really, really hope I am wrong.

[KingBlairhorn]

It’s point a minute at the moment.

They weren’t always this bad, there was a period from around 2015 until they were relegated from the world division that they largely held their own. It seems to have fallen apart since then, although maybe Ireland are a poor yardstick to measure against given how insane their system seems to be at the moment.

The school system in Dublin seems to be pretty much fully professional in all but the players getting paid.

We are a long way off that, there is still a huge divide between the public schools and state schools in Scotland

These sort of results are not good for the laddies, but I'm not sure what we can do about it, we can't not play these fixtures

We have have always been like that in terms of how serious the rugby schools take it all but the difference is probably a bit societal as well. Kids looking forward to getting their gym membership as a right of passage at 16 is widespread. Drinking falling off a cliff in that age group. I was in the club gym tonight and it was and is usually a load of under 18's willing each other on at 21.00 on a Friday. Let's be clear I wasn't fucking doing that nor was anyone else 30 years ago

That’s a big trend here too. I would estimate 50%+ of our office juniors don’t drink for instance and they are all built like brick shithouses. The difference I guess is that in Ireland (or at least in Dublin) they all play rugby too which isn’t the case here.

There are 6 big fee paying schools in Edinburgh (Heriots’s, Merchie, Fettes, Watsons, Edinburgh Academy and Stew Mel). On top of these Boroughmuir and Royal High are good rugby state schools with very strong club connections. That should be plenty to have a mini Leinster/Dublin system and of course there are schools/clubs in the borders, Glasgow and Perthshire too that are within an hour or so of Edinburgh. The mass is there to do something, it just needs more joined up thinking to make it work.

[Tichtheid]

Someone on the Glasgow bored said that 17 of the Irish 23 for tomorrow, the number 1 team in the world, are from Leinster

I won’t share disco’s other stat, it’s too depressing

[KingBlairhorn]

Someone on the Glasgow bored said that 17 of the Irish 23 for tomorrow, the number 1 team in the world, are from Leinster

I won’t share disco’s other stat, it’s too depressing

Given Hansen, Aki and Lowe are IQ in various ways that means only 3 of their 23 were developed in the other provinces. It again reinforces that the SRU should be putting a massive priority on understanding how Leinster have done it and attempting to replicate it. Leinster have effectively built the number one international team in world rugby from an area with a population half the size of the central belt (2.8m vs 4.2m).

[Slick]

Someone on the Glasgow bored said that 17 of the Irish 23 for tomorrow, the number 1 team in the world, are from Leinster

I won’t share disco’s other stat, it’s too depressing

Given Hansen, Aki and Lowe are IQ in various ways that means only 3 of their 23 were developed in the other provinces. It again reinforces that the SRU should be putting a massive priority on understanding how Leinster have done it and attempting to replicate it. Leinster have effectively built the number one international team in world rugby from an area with a population half the size of the central belt (2.8m vs 4.2m).

OK, but 4.1m of them don’t know what rugby is

[I like neeps]

Someone on the Glasgow bored said that 17 of the Irish 23 for tomorrow, the number 1 team in the world, are from Leinster

I won’t share disco’s other stat, it’s too depressing

Given Hansen, Aki and Lowe are IQ in various ways that means only 3 of their 23 were developed in the other provinces. It again reinforces that the SRU should be putting a massive priority on understanding how Leinster have done it and attempting to replicate it. Leinster have effectively built the number one international team in world rugby from an area with a population half the size of the central belt (2.8m vs 4.2m).

OK, but 4.1m of them don’t know what rugby is

Aye Dublin don't have two cultural phenomenons identifying as football clubs sucking all the life from all sports in the city.

[Blackmac]

The school system in Dublin seems to be pretty much fully professional in all but the players getting paid.

We are a long way off that, there is still a huge divide between the public schools and state schools in Scotland

These sort of results are not good for the laddies, but I'm not sure what we can do about it, we can't not play these fixtures

We have have always been like that in terms of how serious the rugby schools take it all but the difference is probably a bit societal as well. Kids looking forward to getting their gym membership as a right of passage at 16 is widespread. Drinking falling off a cliff in that age group. I was in the club gym tonight and it was and is usually a load of under 18's willing each other on at 21.00 on a Friday. Let's be clear I wasn't fucking doing that nor was anyone else 30 years ago

That’s a big trend here too. I would estimate 50%+ of our office juniors don’t drink for instance and they are all built like brick shithouses. The difference I guess is that in Ireland (or at least in Dublin) they all play rugby too which isn’t the case here.

There are 6 big fee paying schools in Edinburgh (Heriots’s, Merchie, Fettes, Watsons, Edinburgh Academy and Stew Mel). On top of these Boroughmuir and Royal High are good rugby state schools with very strong club connections. That should be plenty to have a mini Leinster/Dublin system and of course there are schools/clubs in the borders, Glasgow and Perthshire too that are within an hour or so of Edinburgh. The mass is there to do something, it just needs more joined up thinking to make it work.

My nephew is 15 and plays for Penicuik. He is decent and has been picked for the SRU u16 programme.
Two weeks ago they played Lasswade and both teams could only muster 26 between them. Last week they were at North Berwick and is was 23. He is rightly getting totally demoralised. Penicuik don't even field an u18 side so I have put some feelers out to move him to Boroughmuir which is going to cause me a lot of work as his divorced parents are totally uninterested and it is myself and his grandad that drive him about.
When you think that Penicuik is one of the largest towns south of Edinburgh it is a sorry state of affairs.

[Tichtheid]

We have have always been like that in terms of how serious the rugby schools take it all but the difference is probably a bit societal as well. Kids looking forward to getting their gym membership as a right of passage at 16 is widespread. Drinking falling off a cliff in that age group. I was in the club gym tonight and it was and is usually a load of under 18's willing each other on at 21.00 on a Friday. Let's be clear I wasn't fucking doing that nor was anyone else 30 years ago

That’s a big trend here too. I would estimate 50%+ of our office juniors don’t drink for instance and they are all built like brick shithouses. The difference I guess is that in Ireland (or at least in Dublin) they all play rugby too which isn’t the case here.

There are 6 big fee paying schools in Edinburgh (Heriots’s, Merchie, Fettes, Watsons, Edinburgh Academy and Stew Mel). On top of these Boroughmuir and Royal High are good rugby state schools with very strong club connections. That should be plenty to have a mini Leinster/Dublin system and of course there are schools/clubs in the borders, Glasgow and Perthshire too that are within an hour or so of Edinburgh. The mass is there to do something, it just needs more joined up thinking to make it work.

My nephew is 15 and plays for Penicuik. He is decent and has been picked for the SRU u16 programme.
Two weeks ago they played Lasswade and both teams could only muster 26 between them. Last week they were at North Berwick and is was 23. He is rightly getting totally demoralised. Penicuik don't even field an u18 side so I have put some feelers out to move him to Boroughmuir which is going to cause me a lot of work as his divorced parents are totally uninterested and it is myself and his grandad that drive him about.
When you think that Penicuik is one of the largest towns south of Edinburgh it is a sorry state of affairs.

Are those numbers for Penicuik teams or them and the opposition combined?

I'd be very surprised if that is the case at North Berwick

[Hellraiser]

Someone on the Glasgow bored said that 17 of the Irish 23 for tomorrow, the number 1 team in the world, are from Leinster

I won’t share disco’s other stat, it’s too depressing

Given Hansen, Aki and Lowe are IQ in various ways that means only 3 of their 23 were developed in the other provinces. It again reinforces that the SRU should be putting a massive priority on understanding how Leinster have done it and attempting to replicate it. Leinster have effectively built the number one international team in world rugby from an area with a population half the size of the central belt (2.8m vs 4.2m).

5

[GogLais]

I’m starting to get a really sick feeling about Sunday. I expect a defeat, but I’m starting to fear a hammering. I know this is partly down to that awful U20 game, but none of our players seem to have a clue how to play against any Irish side. I bet we concede a try within 5 minutes of the start - we always seem to give decent teams a gimme. After that it could get ugly.

I really, really hope I am wrong.

So do we all.

[KingBlairhorn]

Given Hansen, Aki and Lowe are IQ in various ways that means only 3 of their 23 were developed in the other provinces. It again reinforces that the SRU should be putting a massive priority on understanding how Leinster have done it and attempting to replicate it. Leinster have effectively built the number one international team in world rugby from an area with a population half the size of the central belt (2.8m vs 4.2m).

OK, but 4.1m of them don’t know what rugby is

Aye Dublin don't have two cultural phenomenons identifying as football clubs sucking all the life from all sports in the city.

I know, see my previous post RE lifestyles.

[KingBlairhorn]

Someone on the Glasgow bored said that 17 of the Irish 23 for tomorrow, the number 1 team in the world, are from Leinster

I won’t share disco’s other stat, it’s too depressing

Given Hansen, Aki and Lowe are IQ in various ways that means only 3 of their 23 were developed in the other provinces. It again reinforces that the SRU should be putting a massive priority on understanding how Leinster have done it and attempting to replicate it. Leinster have effectively built the number one international team in world rugby from an area with a population half the size of the central belt (2.8m vs 4.2m).

5

So presumably ‘only’ 15 came through the Leinster system then?

[S/Lt_Phillips]

I’m starting to get a really sick feeling about Sunday. I expect a defeat, but I’m starting to fear a hammering. I know this is partly down to that awful U20 game, but none of our players seem to have a clue how to play against any Irish side. I bet we concede a try within 5 minutes of the start - we always seem to give decent teams a gimme. After that it could get ugly.

I really, really hope I am wrong.

So do we all.

Me too. After such a bright start to the tournament I'm now expecting us to somehow end up 4th, even if we beat Italy (I've not worked out the maths to see if this is possible, I'm just assuming it is).

[Blackmac]

That’s a big trend here too. I would estimate 50%+ of our office juniors don’t drink for instance and they are all built like brick shithouses. The difference I guess is that in Ireland (or at least in Dublin) they all play rugby too which isn’t the case here.

There are 6 big fee paying schools in Edinburgh (Heriots’s, Merchie, Fettes, Watsons, Edinburgh Academy and Stew Mel). On top of these Boroughmuir and Royal High are good rugby state schools with very strong club connections. That should be plenty to have a mini Leinster/Dublin system and of course there are schools/clubs in the borders, Glasgow and Perthshire too that are within an hour or so of Edinburgh. The mass is there to do something, it just needs more joined up thinking to make it work.

My nephew is 15 and plays for Penicuik. He is decent and has been picked for the SRU u16 programme.
Two weeks ago they played Lasswade and both teams could only muster 26 between them. Last week they were at North Berwick and is was 23. He is rightly getting totally demoralised. Penicuik don't even field an u18 side so I have put some feelers out to move him to Boroughmuir which is going to cause me a lot of work as his divorced parents are totally uninterested and it is myself and his grandad that drive him about.
When you think that Penicuik is one of the largest towns south of Edinburgh it is a sorry state of affairs.

Are those numbers for Penicuik teams or them and the opposition combined?

I'd be very surprised if that is the case at North Berwick

Combined. Penicuik fielded 12 and North Berwick 11. I was totally shocked as well because I know they are a well run club, as are Penicuik. Lasswade the same. When Penicuik are at the full strength they are quite good but it appears that players will not turn up at the drop of a hat with little or no warning.

[Slick]

I’m starting to get a really sick feeling about Sunday. I expect a defeat, but I’m starting to fear a hammering. I know this is partly down to that awful U20 game, but none of our players seem to have a clue how to play against any Irish side. I bet we concede a try within 5 minutes of the start - we always seem to give decent teams a gimme. After that it could get ugly.

I really, really hope I am wrong.

So do we all.

Me too. After such a bright start to the tournament I'm now expecting us to somehow end up 4th, even if we beat Italy (I've not worked out the maths to see if this is possible, I'm just assuming it is).

Yeah, must say the old feelings of dread are coming back after a nice break

[SomersetJock]

I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve said “FFS Sco-Taly in the last 80 mins !!!

[Dogbert]

I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve said “FFS Sco-Taly in the last 80 mins !!!

Mistakenly opened the "Depression, Anxiety and Suicidal" thread thinking it was the English Rugby Thead.

I can't see us ending up fourth this year.

France really took England apart

We should take some heart that we pushed France really close ( in Paris )

[KingBlairhorn]

I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve said “FFS Sco-Taly in the last 80 mins !!!

Mistakenly opened the "Depression, Anxiety and Suicidal" thread thinking it was the English Rugby Thead.

I can't see us ending up fourth this year.

France really took England apart

We should take some heart that we pushed France really close ( in Paris )

I feel we might be going to find out tomorrow that the reality of team quality in the tournament is:

Ireland
- gap -
France
- gap -
- gap -
- gap -
Scotland
England
- gap -
Wales
- gap -
Italy

We did well against France but they played badly and when they had spurts of good play against us it was like a hot knife through butter.

[topofthemoon]

I’m starting to get a really sick feeling about Sunday. I expect a defeat, but I’m starting to fear a hammering. I know this is partly down to that awful U20 game, but none of our players seem to have a clue how to play against any Irish side. I bet we concede a try within 5 minutes of the start - we always seem to give decent teams a gimme. After that it could get ugly.

I really, really hope I am wrong.

So do we all.

Me too. After such a bright start to the tournament I'm now expecting us to somehow end up 4th, even if we beat Italy (I've not worked out the maths to see if this is possible, I'm just assuming it is).

Only possible if England win away against Ireland in Round 5.

[Biffer]

I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve said “FFS Sco-Taly in the last 80 mins !!!

Mistakenly opened the "Depression, Anxiety and Suicidal" thread thinking it was the English Rugby Thead.

I can't see us ending up fourth this year.

France really took England apart

We should take some heart that we pushed France really close ( in Paris )

I feel we might be going to find out tomorrow that the reality of team quality in the tournament is:

Ireland
- gap -
France
- gap -
- gap -
- gap -
Scotland
England
- gap -
Wales
- gap -
Italy

We did well against France but they played badly and when they had spurts of good play against us it was like a hot knife through butter.

I'd be tempted to say there might be a developing gap between us and England. They're fucking shit.

When we get going we slice sides apart as well. We've done it to everyone. We just need to do it more.

Tomorrow is huge. I ge uinely don't know what to expect. My Scottish fan who has watched the last twenty years fears a kicking by 40. My inner fan who has watched how good we can be thinks we're capable of beating them. But it is a big ask, odds against us.

So let's fuck them sideways.

[Yr Alban]

The thing about England is this: they have so many players, if they don’t like their team, then they could replace every player in it 3-4 times over without becoming noticeably worse. Which means that although they will have slumps like they are having at the moment, they’ll always be able to bounce back.

Tomorrow is a real crunch game for us. I don’t see much hope of winning, but if we can put up a good fight and run them reasonably close, we can truly say we have turned the corner and we’re relevant again. If we go down by 30, it’s another false dawn.

[Slick]

All of this

[Tichtheid]

The thing about England is this: they have so many players, if they don’t like their team, then they could replace every player in it 3-4 times over without becoming noticeably worse. Which means that although they will have slumps like they are having at the moment, they’ll always be able to bounce back.

Tomorrow is a real crunch game for us. I don’t see much hope of winning, but if we can put up a good fight and run them reasonably close, we can truly say we have turned the corner and we’re relevant again. If we go down by 30, it’s another false dawn.

I saw a very professional and focused approach from the Irish players in interviews this week. They are really up for it, and the bollocks we've seen from a few halfwitted Irish pundits is nothing more than pish water.

Ireland are in Edinburgh to do a job, they're the number one team in the game and deservedly so.

I really wish we had Darcy Graham fit, as well as Steyn has played, the wee man was on fire before Munster took him out.

I hope for a win, but I don't expect it. I also wish we had WP Nel available, but that isn't the case.

Basically we have to be pretty near perfect to stand a chance, this is like facing New Zealand for us, yet...

If we can get good ruck ball we can score tries, if we can disrupt their breakdown we can put a spanner in the spokes of their set play attacks.

[weegie01]

I was chatting to a few Super 6 / young pros yesterday about the pro A teams being in the Super 6 Sprint.

They are unsure how the pro A team selections will work, i.e. who pro players who often turn out for the Super 6 will play for.

Glasgow wanted the A teams to play the whole competition, it was Edinburgh who only wanted the three as they thought they could not resource the whole series (no one really understood this).

As it should be, the Super 6 boys are desperate to take on the pros, especially those who were borderline.

One comment that came out was in relation to pros who drop down to Super 6 for fitness etc. Examples were cited of players who do this and are clearly a class above, but there are too many who drop down and Super 6 looks like their level. It is not the first time I have heard Savala described as someone who shows he is a Super 6 level player when he drops down.

[Jock42]

I like the fact that they're only there for 3 games. You'd expect the A teams to be competing for the final which seems counterintuitive to me if none of the Super 6 sides are in it.

[robmatic]

I was chatting to a few Super 6 / young pros yesterday about the pro A teams being in the Super 6 Sprint.

They are unsure how the pro A team selections will work, i.e. who pro players who often turn out for the Super 6 will play for.

Glasgow wanted the A teams to play the whole competition, it was Edinburgh who only wanted the three as they thought they could not resource the whole series (no one really understood this).

As it should be, the Super 6 boys are desperate to take on the pros, especially those who were borderline.

One comment that came out was in relation to pros who drop down to Super 6 for fitness etc. Examples were cited of players who do this and are clearly a class above, but there are too many who drop down and Super 6 looks like their level. It is not the first time I have heard Savala described as someone who shows he is a Super 6 level player when he drops down.

To be honest, I can believe that there might not be much difference between a pro whose face has fit or who has persisted through the pathways and a semi pro who has just been unlucky/overlooked/developed later. I think there will definitely be some benefit as we continue to see more meaningful interactions between the pro squads and the Super 6 as we will see where players really fit.

[Blackmac]

Has Barclay just said that if we win we go to no 1 in the world. That can't be correct.

[Tichtheid]

Has Barclay just said that if we win we go to no 1 in the world. That can't be correct.

I think he said that we’d never beaten the number one side

[Deveron Boy]

The SRU have real ability to fuck up everything to do with Siobhan

[Tichtheid]

The SRU have real ability to fuck up everything to do with Siobhan

Yup

[charltom]

Has Barclay just said that if we win we go to no 1 in the world. That can't be correct.

They would have needed to win all four matches this year against Ireland and France to make it to that level.

[Blackmac]

Surely that's just a tackle

[Blackmac]

Obviously sexton allowed to shout at the ref but not Ritchie.

[I like neeps]

How much more often are we going to let Fraser Brown miss key lineouts. It's a real problem.

[Big D]

How much more often are we going to let Fraser Brown miss key lineouts. It's a real problem.

Ashman has to get a game next week. Sub front row were poor.

[Jock42]

At least I can go back to disliking Townsend. 2nd half was fucking pathetic, yes Ireland are number 1 but scotland were fucking dire. Passing was shite, VDMs defence is poor and Brown was schooled by a fucking openside