The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Big D]

First half was good.

Front row bar the two dodgy early throws and Demspey were very good IMO.

Centres were good.

Decision making still hard to fathom sometimes. How Cummings allowed himself to repeatedly get beaten at the front of the lineout with VdF throwing defies belief.

VdM had a poor game, as he does occasionally and Steyn just defensively hasn't been good enough across all 4 games.

[TheNatalShark]

At least I can go back to disliking Townsend. 2nd half was fucking pathetic, yes Ireland are number 1 but scotland were fucking dire. Passing was shite, VDMs defence is poor and Brown was schooled by a fucking openside

For all the individual errors today , the passing was really really ragged for large chunks of the game from Finn and after that - particularly when not on front foot ball, just aimless shuffling. Almost like they were scared of Ireland's jackling (which I though was relatively well policed in the tight areas).

I presume White didn't go off with an injury? If not it was another poor sub

[Blackmac]

Just don't see why we hooked our props so early and can't understand why Brown is anywhere near that team. Another shite throw at the end there.
VdM and Steyn were appalling and Hogg wasn't great either.
Brainless in the lineout as well.
I'm laughing watching the English posters laying into us with their humbling shite.

[JM2K6]

I'm not laying into Scotland. It was, in my opinion, a humbling second half. A good, successful side playing at home having matched the #1 side in the world in the first half, with the opposition suffering an incredible run of injuries and having to make emergency changes in the set piece, only to be run over like that and to be that poor (as observed by other posters in this thread) is a real killer. It's a hope-to-despair thing. Hence, humbling. It's not an accusation of arrogance or a dismissing of where this team is at or anything.

[JM2K6]

Jon Barclay, just now: "I think that was a humbling experience for that team".

[Deveron Boy]

I'm not laying into Scotland. It was, in my opinion, a humbling second half. A good, successful side playing at home having matched the #1 side in the world in the first half, with the opposition suffering an incredible run of injuries and having to make emergency changes in the set piece, only to be run over like that and to be that poor (as observed by other posters in this thread) is a real killer. It's a hope-to-despair thing. Hence, humbling. It's not an accusation of arrogance or a dismissing of where this team is at or anything.

Mate , take it to the 6 nations thread but basically fuck off from here

[Blackmac]

I'm not laying into Scotland. It was, in my opinion, a humbling second half. A good, successful side playing at home having matched the #1 side in the world in the first half, with the opposition suffering an incredible run of injuries and having to make emergency changes in the set piece, only to be run over like that and to be that poor (as observed by other posters in this thread) is a real killer. It's a hope-to-despair thing. Hence, humbling. It's not an accusation of arrogance or a dismissing of where this team is at or anything.

You haven't been the worst to be fair but I think some of the language been used is nonsense. As I said on the other thread, a few players underperformed and they struggled to cope with a very unique situation that occurred in the set piece but it was hardly the humbling from a "not out of third gear Ireland" that has been suggested.

If anything the three prop situation favoured Ireland especially in the scrums, but good luck catching Healey with a brake foot in any of them.

[JM2K6]

I'm not laying into Scotland. It was, in my opinion, a humbling second half. A good, successful side playing at home having matched the #1 side in the world in the first half, with the opposition suffering an incredible run of injuries and having to make emergency changes in the set piece, only to be run over like that and to be that poor (as observed by other posters in this thread) is a real killer. It's a hope-to-despair thing. Hence, humbling. It's not an accusation of arrogance or a dismissing of where this team is at or anything.

Mate , take it to the 6 nations thread but basically fuck off from here

Perfectly happy to, but if someone's going to call me out I am going to explain myself.

edit: and to not double-post - a perfectly reasonable response from Blackmac, so it's all good

[Blackmac]

I'm not laying into Scotland. It was, in my opinion, a humbling second half. A good, successful side playing at home having matched the #1 side in the world in the first half, with the opposition suffering an incredible run of injuries and having to make emergency changes in the set piece, only to be run over like that and to be that poor (as observed by other posters in this thread) is a real killer. It's a hope-to-despair thing. Hence, humbling. It's not an accusation of arrogance or a dismissing of where this team is at or anything.

Mate , take it to the 6 nations thread but basically fuck off from here

Nah, he's a decent and welcome enough visitor.

[Tichtheid]

I'm not laying into Scotland. It was, in my opinion, a humbling second half. A good, successful side playing at home having matched the #1 side in the world in the first half, with the opposition suffering an incredible run of injuries and having to make emergency changes in the set piece, only to be run over like that and to be that poor (as observed by other posters in this thread) is a real killer. It's a hope-to-despair thing. Hence, humbling. It's not an accusation of arrogance or a dismissing of where this team is at or anything.

Nah, I said on the other thread that rugby games are all about the second half, put it another way, that fantastic New Zealand series of teams with Carter and McCaw usually pulled away in the second half.

I think it was a fair reflection of where both teams stand, the key word with Ireland is accuracy. It's that old Woodward TCUP thing again, they can execute their game irrespective of the situation or pressure.

They are a really good side.

[Tichtheid]

I'm not laying into Scotland. It was, in my opinion, a humbling second half. A good, successful side playing at home having matched the #1 side in the world in the first half, with the opposition suffering an incredible run of injuries and having to make emergency changes in the set piece, only to be run over like that and to be that poor (as observed by other posters in this thread) is a real killer. It's a hope-to-despair thing. Hence, humbling. It's not an accusation of arrogance or a dismissing of where this team is at or anything.

Mate , take it to the 6 nations thread but basically fuck off from here

Nah, he's a decent and welcome enough visitor.

Yes, I never understand why some are precious about this.

[Big D]

I'm not laying into Scotland. It was, in my opinion, a humbling second half. A good, successful side playing at home having matched the #1 side in the world in the first half, with the opposition suffering an incredible run of injuries and having to make emergency changes in the set piece, only to be run over like that and to be that poor (as observed by other posters in this thread) is a real killer. It's a hope-to-despair thing. Hence, humbling. It's not an accusation of arrogance or a dismissing of where this team is at or anything.

Mate , take it to the 6 nations thread but basically fuck off from here

Perfectly happy to, but if someone's going to call me out I am going to explain myself.

edit: and to not double-post - a perfectly reasonable response from Blackmac, so it's all good

All good here pal.

I think the game sort of showed where Scotland are. Getting better in some areas and still lacking that decision making, control and accuracy that the top sides have.

The first half is what we need to produce for 80min.

[Big D]

Who are the other wingers in the squad? Roebuck is English in rugby terms now isn't he?

With Kinghorn limping and Russell limping so Kinghorn may be needed there, our wingers being poor and Steyn only making 56% of tackles, we may see some change.

[Yr Alban]

I‘m really not sure what to make of that game.

First half was 100% New Scotland. Sharp, accurate, few errors, few penalties, dangerous in attack. We matched Ireland, held out for a long spell of pressure late in the half, and the stats were basically even at HT.

Second half wasn’t quite 100% Old Scotland, but it was from the moment Ireland scored their second try. All our composure disappeared. We started trying to force things, snatched at chances, tried things that were never on. Basically we let Ireland bully us, they did what they always do when we play them, and in the end won comfortably (if not a thrashing).

So I’m not sure how much real progress we have made. I think we are better than we were a year ago, but it’s clearly fragile as hell and we can turn right back into the old team if things go badly. I saw nothing today to make me even slightly hopeful that we might give either Ireland or SA a game in the autumn.

Fraser Brown is a liability now. He shouldn’t be anywhere near the team. Both Ireland hookers getting injured actually turned out to be to their advantage - three props gave them a huge advantage in the scrum, and Brown’s abysmal throwing evened up the lineout.

[Yr Alban]

Who are the other wingers in the squad? Roebuck is English in rugby terms now isn't he?

With Kinghorn limping and Russell limping so Kinghorn may be needed there, our wingers being poor and Steyn only making 56% of tackles, we may see some change.

Has Roebuck been in a match day 23?

Is Rowe fit?

[sockwithaticket]

Who are the other wingers in the squad? Roebuck is English in rugby terms now isn't he?

With Kinghorn limping and Russell limping so Kinghorn may be needed there, our wingers being poor and Steyn only making 56% of tackles, we may see some change.

He hasn't been capped by us, so in that sense he's still fair game.

You may be able to turn his head, but he was in a recent Eddie Jones squad and was with England at U18s and 20s level, so it might need a few years of missing out on England selection to do so.

[Yr Alban]

Who are the other wingers in the squad? Roebuck is English in rugby terms now isn't he?

With Kinghorn limping and Russell limping so Kinghorn may be needed there, our wingers being poor and Steyn only making 56% of tackles, we may see some change.

He hasn't been capped by us, so in that sense he's still fair game.

You may be able to turn his head, but he was in a recent Eddie Jones squad and was with England at U18s and 20s level, so it might need a few years of missing out on England selection to do so.

Yeah, I don’t think there’s much chance of him declaring for us.

[Big D]

Who are the other wingers in the squad? Roebuck is English in rugby terms now isn't he?

With Kinghorn limping and Russell limping so Kinghorn may be needed there, our wingers being poor and Steyn only making 56% of tackles, we may see some change.

He hasn't been capped by us, so in that sense he's still fair game.

You may be able to turn his head, but he was in a recent Eddie Jones squad and was with England at U18s and 20s level, so it might need a few years of missing out on England selection to do so.

Just thinking of options we might explore. Steyn isn't cutting it for me.

[Yr Alban]

Who are the other wingers in the squad? Roebuck is English in rugby terms now isn't he?

With Kinghorn limping and Russell limping so Kinghorn may be needed there, our wingers being poor and Steyn only making 56% of tackles, we may see some change.

He hasn't been capped by us, so in that sense he's still fair game.

You may be able to turn his head, but he was in a recent Eddie Jones squad and was with England at U18s and 20s level, so it might need a few years of missing out on England selection to do so.

Just thinking of options we might explore. Steyn isn't cutting it for me.

I’m slightly surprised to see his tackle stat - Somerset and I thought he had actually had a pretty good game. A couple of high ball takes and marks under serious pressure.

We don’t have a lot of good options on the wing, and one of the players coming through has now managed to ruin his own career by being an arsehole.

[KingBlairhorn]

Just don't see why we hooked our props so early and can't understand why Brown is anywhere near that team. Another shite throw at the end there.
VdM and Steyn were appalling and Hogg wasn't great either.
Brainless in the lineout as well.
I'm laughing watching the English posters laying into us with their humbling shite.

I wondered at the time if the mistake was Toonie thought the scrums were going uncontested. Would Townsend know that Healy was identified as replacement hooker? If he hadn’t been then Ireland we’re down to 14 with uncontested scrums and the fresh legs made sense?

Anyway, my general thoughts are this is exactly where I think we are. We are better than we were but we’d be kidding ourselves if we thought we were a good enough team to be turning over the best in the world. The tournament has been decent and as long as we don’t shit the bed against Italy we’ll finish where we deserve to, in third.

Another reflection is that maybe we should see South Africa as the more winnable of the two pool games and if we are only going after one, maybe it’s that one.

[Margin__Walker]

Who are the other wingers in the squad? Roebuck is English in rugby terms now isn't he?

With Kinghorn limping and Russell limping so Kinghorn may be needed there, our wingers being poor and Steyn only making 56% of tackles, we may see some change.

Has Roebuck been in a match day 23?

Is Rowe fit?

Not yet.

With how front loaded the season is with the reduction in games, he's running out of road to get any time on the pitch this season. LI only have one game in April and one in May, assuming we don't make the play offs.

[Tichtheid]

Not counting injuries, the squad back three players are Hogg, Smith, Kinghorn, Duhan, Steyn, Maitland, McConnachie.

In reserve we'd have Hoyland who played very well on the summer tour.

I think Huw Jones could do a shift on the wing, but that would mean negating a very effective centre partnership.

[Big D]

Worryingly both Russell and Kinghorn picked up knocks yesterday.

Healy might get a start for a debut.

[Yr Alban]

So, after the dust has settled and I’ve had a bit of time to process:

I think yesterday’s game turned at the point we replaced the front row. Yes, I’m sure the starters were knackered, but it hadn’t begun to show yet, and we were only 55 minutes in. If it really was essential to replace all of them, I’d have done it one at a time, rather than all within about 5 minutes. The drop-off when we did this was huge. Suddenly Ireland were able to establish a dominance in the forwards that they hadn’t had up until that point.

The other main issue was Duhan’s defence, which was pretty dire. He was directly at fault for two of the three Ireland tries. Normally his attacking play balances it out, but it didn’t yesterday. Indeed, he probably butchered at least one try by not offloading when he had plenty of time to.

Once the game started slipping away from us, the old problem with a lack of on-field leadership reared its ugly head again. I think Ritchie will be a good captain, but he was penalised for dissent at least twice. We needed someone to calm the heads, stop the panic and tell everyone to keep doing the basics well, and we didn’t have anyone doing that.

[Slick]

Once the game started slipping away from us, the old problem with a lack of on-field leadership reared its ugly head again. I think Ritchie will be a good captain, but he was penalised for dissent at least twice. We needed someone to calm the heads, stop the panic and tell everyone to keep doing the basics well, and we didn’t have anyone doing that.

Yes, I think we probably need to talk about Jamie.

He does so much of the unseen stuff, and I haven't got much of a clue about forward play, so difficult to judge, but it feels that his performances have dropped a bit since been made the captain.

But the main point is that he seems to be getting on the wrong side of refs - we have been marched back 3 times in 2 games, not sure I've seen any other team even get one? I'm not sure all 3 were even directly because of him but it does point to an issue that we really don't need. I hate the phrase in the modern game, "painting a picture", but there is truth to it and he really doesn't paint a good one being all arms and legs, red faced and constantly on edge (which makes him such a good player). I imagine it doesn't take long for a reputation to build amongst refs - although Sexton and Biggar seem to have got away with it for years but I guess they are much more senior players.

[charltom]

Could anyone hear the words Jamie used?

I am currently assuming they were disrespectful as I would not expect a captain at least to get a hearing from the ref. And Sexton and Biggar moan an awful lot more without ever being marched back. Is it the way they say it vs the way JR does? I find it all bizarre without knowing what JR said each time.

[Tichtheid]

Could anyone hear the words Jamie used?

I am currently assuming they were disrespectful as I would not expect a captain at least to get a hearing from the ref. And Sexton and Biggar moan an awful lot more without ever being marched back. Is it the way they say it vs the way JR does? I find it all bizarre without knowing what JR said each time.

Ritchie said, “He was off his feet” and got marched back ten. I don’t know what Finn said to be marched back.

Porter was warned about shouting for a yellow card

[Tichtheid]

I remember a story John Barclay told about players being sent to an army “away day” to learn whatever and when asked if anyone had stood out they army bloke said “That seventeen year old, Ritchie, he’s a born leader”

[Yr Alban]

Could anyone hear the words Jamie used?

I am currently assuming they were disrespectful as I would not expect a captain at least to get a hearing from the ref. And Sexton and Biggar moan an awful lot more without ever being marched back. Is it the way they say it vs the way JR does? I find it all bizarre without knowing what JR said each time.

Ritchie said, “He was off his feet” and got marched back ten. I don’t know what Finn said to be marched back.

Porter was warned about shouting for a yellow card

If that was all he said, that’s ridiculous. He is the captain and a certain amount of moaning is permitted. As has been observed, the likes of Sexton and Biggar do it incessantly, and Biggar isn’t even the captain.

Any direspect or swearing at the ref, back 10, no arguments. But ‘he was off his feet’?

[Yr Alban]

I remember a story John Barclay told about players being sent to an army “away day” to learn whatever and when asked if anyone had stood out they army bloke said “That seventeen year old, Ritchie, he’s a born leader”

He is the man. This is not in dispute. However, he needs a dash more maturity and to lead more by example. This will come with time.

[Slick]

I remember a story John Barclay told about players being sent to an army “away day” to learn whatever and when asked if anyone had stood out they army bloke said “That seventeen year old, Ritchie, he’s a born leader”

He is the man. This is not in dispute. However, he needs a dash more maturity and to lead more by example. This will come with time.

Yeah, don't get me wrong. I'm not calling for his head and 100% think he should be given more time. But nonetheless it does seem a bit of an issue at the moment that is worth discussing.

[Tichtheid]

Could anyone hear the words Jamie used?

I am currently assuming they were disrespectful as I would not expect a captain at least to get a hearing from the ref. And Sexton and Biggar moan an awful lot more without ever being marched back. Is it the way they say it vs the way JR does? I find it all bizarre without knowing what JR said each time.

Ritchie said, “He was off his feet” and got marched back ten. I don’t know what Finn said to be marched back.

Porter was warned about shouting for a yellow card

If that was all he said, that’s ridiculous. He is the captain and a certain amount of moaning is permitted. As has been observed, the likes of Sexton and Biggar do it incessantly, and Biggar isn’t even the captain.

Any direspect or swearing at the ref, back 10, no arguments. But ‘he was off his feet’?

I thought Luke Pearce did fine in the main, there were a couple of mistakes but otherwise fine. The players from both sides made a lot of mistakes.

I recall him telling Jamie Ritchie "You can't be in my face like that" or words to that effect, when he marched him back. I thought it was a bit precious to be honest, Ritchie wasn't right up in his face, he was several feet away and I think Pearce was merely trying to stamp his authority on the game, he'd not long done the same to Finn, but I really don't think this was worthy of the ten metres

[Slick]

Ritchie said, “He was off his feet” and got marched back ten. I don’t know what Finn said to be marched back.

Porter was warned about shouting for a yellow card

If that was all he said, that’s ridiculous. He is the captain and a certain amount of moaning is permitted. As has been observed, the likes of Sexton and Biggar do it incessantly, and Biggar isn’t even the captain.

Any direspect or swearing at the ref, back 10, no arguments. But ‘he was off his feet’?

I thought Luke Pearce did fine in the main, there were a couple of mistakes but otherwise fine. The players from both sides made a lot of mistakes.

I recall him telling Jamie Ritchie "You can't be in my face like that" or words to that effect, when he marched him back. I thought it was a bit precious to be honest, Ritchie wasn't right up in his face, he was several feet away and I think Pearce was merely trying to stamp his authority on the game, he'd not long done the same to Finn, but I really don't think this was worthy of the ten metres

Yup, I got into a very friendly discussion with the Irish guy behind me at half time about the reffing, both of us thought we were hard done by - but ended up finishing it by saying, "well actually, he's currently the best ref in the world so maybe we should just get on with it", to which we both agreed.

[charltom]

Maybe it just needed to be "He was off his feet, sir."

[Jock42]

I remember a story John Barclay told about players being sent to an army “away day” to learn whatever and when asked if anyone had stood out they army bloke said “That seventeen year old, Ritchie, he’s a born leader”

He is the man. This is not in dispute. However, he needs a dash more maturity and to lead more by example. This will come with time.

Yeah, don't get me wrong. I'm not calling for his head and 100% think he should be given more time. But nonetheless it does seem a bit of an issue at the moment that is worth discussing.

The issue refs seem to have with him definitely needs sorted, somehow. There's also the issue of not challenging VDF in the lineout until the last few minutes.

[Biffer]

He is the man. This is not in dispute. However, he needs a dash more maturity and to lead more by example. This will come with time.

Yeah, don't get me wrong. I'm not calling for his head and 100% think he should be given more time. But nonetheless it does seem a bit of an issue at the moment that is worth discussing.

The issue refs seem to have with him definitely needs sorted, somehow. There's also the issue of not challenging VDF in the lineout until the last few minutes.

Some the late Irish line outs didn’t get to five metres either, but the ref wasn’t positioned to watch it. But he had said by that time that he wasn’t going to accept Ritchie challenging anything so it couldn’t be highlighted to him.

[Yr Alban]

Ritchie said, “He was off his feet” and got marched back ten. I don’t know what Finn said to be marched back.

Porter was warned about shouting for a yellow card

If that was all he said, that’s ridiculous. He is the captain and a certain amount of moaning is permitted. As has been observed, the likes of Sexton and Biggar do it incessantly, and Biggar isn’t even the captain.

Any direspect or swearing at the ref, back 10, no arguments. But ‘he was off his feet’?

I thought Luke Pearce did fine in the main, there were a couple of mistakes but otherwise fine. The players from both sides made a lot of mistakes.

I recall him telling Jamie Ritchie "You can't be in my face like that" or words to that effect, when he marched him back. I thought it was a bit precious to be honest, Ritchie wasn't right up in his face, he was several feet away and I think Pearce was merely trying to stamp his authority on the game, he'd not long done the same to Finn, but I really don't think this was worthy of the ten metres

I agree with you that he was mostly fine. Very little I’d take issue with, and he wasn’t card-happy as a lot of refs are just now. I just think that if the captain can’t highlight skulduggery by the opposition, then who can?

EDIT: I did like that he rapidly shut down the Irish guy calling for a yellow, though. Point things out, yes, but it’s up to the ref to decide what to do about them. This is something I’d like to see removed from the game, and ‘do that again and you’ll be the one getting a yellow’ seemed to be effective.

[Yr Alban]

It’s actually seriously frustrating - for years we’ve been saying that we are crap at playing the ref, we aren’t in his ear all the time like Ireland and Wales, and we’re losing out because of it. Now we have a captain who is actually doing it, and he’s getting penalised.

[Tichtheid]

It’s actually seriously frustrating - for years we’ve been saying that we are crap at playing the ref, we aren’t in his ear all the time like Ireland and Wales, and we’re losing out because of it. Now we have a captain who is actually doing it, and he’s getting penalised.

I can't remember who it was now, but last week I read from an international ref that his most formidable international captain to referee was Wee Greeg.

He used to get so much abuse from some fans, I always thought he was criminally underrated, he ran the whole show.

[Big D]

There's a way to communicate and calm down quickly that Ritchie is going to need to learn.

No doubt he's a good leader amongst the group but it is also fair to say he has things he needs to learn. Speaking to the ref when you play right on the edge is difficult but being marched 10 in half your games as captain isn't ideal.