All Black Squad named Sunday 6/9/20

[Steve]

Shit or get off the pot time for Akira Ioane.

[Carter's Choice]

Shit or get off the pot time for Akira Ioane.

Despite him looking fitter this season, he is still an inherently lazy, selfish and petulant player. I just can't see what he brings to the AB's. He's behind Savea and Sotutu at no.8 and behind Frizell and Grace at 6. At best, I see him being an impact player coming off the bench wearing no. 20. But his impact has been very limited this year. Did he make a single linebreak for the entire Super Rugby season?

[stemoc]

honestly only noticed akira once in last night's game when he made a break and gave a nice offload, thats about it...definitely not an AB starter, at the very worst an impact player in the last 10 minutes.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Looks a good squad overall, and good to see a few deserving young blokes get the call up.

I agree with other posters in stating the first five set up is not as good as it could be. I suspect Bananas and co will not get the best out of either player if it's going to be a competition between Mo'unga and Barrett for the 10 jersey. That will limit the game time of one great player but I guess if Barrett doesn't want to play 15 then we are stuck with it.

[Carter's Choice]

honestly only noticed akira once in last night's game when he made a break and gave a nice offload, thats about it...definitely not an AB starter, at the very worst an impact player in the last 10 minutes.

Up until this season Akira Ioane didn't hit rucks. He genuinely believed that cleaning out a breakdown was beneath him. That was something that less talented players were paid to do. He's still an extremely lazy player, but he has lifted his workrate. However this has come at the expense of his much vaunted running game. He was barely sighted with ball in hand all season. I suspect that Ian Foster has selected him simply to shut him and Rekio up, and that Akira's All Blacks experience this season will consist of holding tackle bags, sneaking beers into camp when Ian Foster has gone to bed and overeating at the team buffet.

[Carter's Choice]

Looks a good squad overall, and good to see a few deserving young blokes get the call up.

I agree with other posters in stating the first five set up is not as good as it could be. I suspect Bananas and co will not get the best out of either player if it's going to be a competition between Mo'unga and Barrett for the 10 jersey. That will limit the game time of one great player but I guess if Barrett doesn't want to play 15 then we are stuck with it.

As a Highlanders fan you'd have to be disappointed with just two players in the squad, Smith and Frizell? Especially as you went 3-5 whilst the winless 0-8 Chiefs had 6 players selected?

[FujiKiwi]

If, heaven forbid, Sam Cane is injured, how are the loose forwards configured? Assuming all other relevant players remain fit?

6: Frizell 7: Savea 8: Sotutu

or

6: Frizell 7: Papalii 8: Savea

?

Like many others, I'm not convinced Cane can or should be an automatic selection all the way through to 2023. I wonder what the selectors have in mind.

[Enzedder]

Looks a good squad overall, and good to see a few deserving young blokes get the call up.

I agree with other posters in stating the first five set up is not as good as it could be. I suspect Bananas and co will not get the best out of either player if it's going to be a competition between Mo'unga and Barrett for the 10 jersey. That will limit the game time of one great player but I guess if Barrett doesn't want to play 15 then we are stuck with it.

As a Highlanders fan you'd have to be disappointed with just two players in the squad, Smith and Frizell? Especially as you went 3-5 whilst the winless 0-8 Chiefs had 6 players selected?

Crusader fan thinking. I look at a squad and see who I would have there in place of certain people - in this case there are one or two surprises but given the size of the squad, they have done well.

Pity I don't think we'll see them playing.

[Carter's Choice]

Crusader fan thinking. I look at a squad and see who I would have there in place of certain people - in this case there are one or two surprises but given the size of the squad, they have done well.

I've already done that.

Unlucky

Lachlan Boshier: Arguably the form loose forward in Super Rugby Aotearoa, but might be too small/light to play 6 at test level?
Joshua Ioane: I'm much more comfortable when we have three specialist 10's in our squad. We have 1.5 first-fives, and presumably McKenzie is the back-up if Mo'unga or BB get injured. The selection mistakes of the last RWC cycle are being repeated.
Peter Umaga-Jensen: I know it's competitive for midfield/outside back positions but PUJ finished Super Rugby Aotearoa very strong and looks custom built for test match Rugby. The Hurricanes had a very dangerous backline but only two of their backs made the squad. The Chiefs couldn't score any points and they have three backs (Weber, ALB and DMac).
Scott Scrafton: Does anyone actually think that Vaa'i and Strange played better during Super Rugby Aotearoa?
Marino Mika-ele-Tu'u: Was the best ball running loose forward in Super Rugby Aotearoa and should be in the squad over Lazy McFatso (Akira Ioane)
Tom Sanders: I'm not saying he should be an All Black, but he had a domestic season and can play 6 or 8.
Mitch Dunshea: Started most Crusaders matches this season, but is probably a little small for test Rugby. He's the same size as Vaa'i though.
Angus Ta'avao: i was never a fan of him, but Steve Hansen clearly was. He needs to concentrate less on his media work and being funny, and more on Rugby
Liam Coltman: He's been surpassed at the Highlanders by Ash Dixon and at the AB's by Aumua. I'd be looking for an easy rugby contract if I was him.


Lucky
Tupou Vaa'i: Does anyone else get the impression that the Foster era is going to be defined by undeserved Chiefs players being gifted test caps? This kid could be great, but he isn't an All Black lock's ring-piece right now.He needs to stop his moronic clapping when his team gets a penalty, he isn't playing 1st XV anymore.
Quentin Strange: A talented youngster but only played a couple of SRA games due to injury. His Crusaders teammate Mitch Dunshea outshone him this season.
Cullen Grace: Had a great Super Rugby tournament but post-covid was barely sighted due to injury. He does look promising though.
Brad Weber: Had an average SRA season and wouldn't be near this squad if he wasn't a Chiefs player. Was outplayed by Christie, Hall, Drummond and Booth during the domestic season.
Alex Hodgman: Not the worst selection, but I thought Ayden Johnstone was arguably the form LH in NZ this season and deserved a spot as the 3rd ranked LH.

[Monkey Magic]

If, heaven forbid, Sam Cane is injured, how are the loose forwards configured? Assuming all other relevant players remain fit?

6: Frizell 7: Savea 8: Sotutu

or

6: Frizell 7: Papalii 8: Savea

?

Like many others, I'm not convinced Cane can or should be an automatic selection all the way through to 2023. I wonder what the selectors have in mind.

Depends bit on how they want to run their 23. Potentially it will be less disruptive to just do straight swap with Papalii for Cane, rather than shift ardie around and effect the bench.

[mrbrownstone]

It's an okay enough squad with a few glaring deficiencies I think.

Do we really need 6 outside backs + Reiko and Ennor who are very capable wingers + BB as a fullback? BB, Jordie, Jordan, and DMac as fullback options is surely overkill. On form, DMac and one of Bridge/Clarke could have been left out for another proper first-five (Ioane/Black) and potentially to have a look at another lock or reward Umaga-Jensen's form in the midfield. To me, it reeks of the selectors not wanting to make a tough call on which form winger to leave out. It also worries me that BB is being listed as a first-five.

Elsewhere, we really have very little depth at loosehead, but I think Hodgman is a decent enough choice. He's been very good at ITM Cup level for a few years now, and finally started to show that form at Super level this year. Stopgap at best until Moli can stay fit for more than three games, but he should do an okay job.

At lock, I think Quinten Strange is a good pick, while Vai'i is probably lucky that Parkinson is injured, but was fine last night and has all the physical attributes to be a test standard lock.

Akira has still done very little to deserve a call up, and that spot could have deservingly gone to MMT/Boshier instead, but now that he's been picked I hope time in the All Black environment can finally get the best out of him.

If we were playing next weekend, I'd select this 23:

1. Moody
2. Coles
3. Laulala
4. Whitelock
5. Tuipolotu
6. Frizell
7. Cane
8. Savea
9. Smith
10. Mo'unga
11. Bridge
12. ALB
13. Goodhue
14. Jordan
15. BB

16. Coles
17. Tu'ungafasi
18. Lomax
19. Strange
20. Sotutu
21. TJP
22. Ioane
23. Jordie

[Carter's Choice]

Do we really need 6 outside backs + Reiko and Ennor who are very capable wingers + BB as a fullback? BB, Jordie, Jordan, and DMac as fullback options is surely overkill.

This is by far the biggest issue with this squad. Foster clearly has no interest in giving match time to any other no.10's aside from Mo'unga, BB and presumably McKenzie. D-Mac has played 15 all season for the Chiefs but he's now the 3rd choice 10 for the AB's?

And with that many outside backs chosen, expect lots of rotation, chopping and changing. That type of selection philosophy killed our 2019 RWC chances and it's clear that Foster and Fox are determined to continue with it moving forward. Constantly change our 23, giving everyone match time and refusing to establish a first choice XV. And so we will go into the 2023 RWC with no settled combinations. Foster needs to be prepared to make tough calls, even if it means some players crack the shits and leave NZ.

[Wild Beef]

We don’t need to bed in combinations yet. This is the time for getting in new blood. Plenty of time until the next RWC.

I think Ioane is unlucky but he will get called up if BB or mo gets injured.

[Carter's Choice]

We don’t need to bed in combinations yet. This is the time for getting in new blood. Plenty of time until the next RWC.

I think Ioane is unlucky but he will get called up if BB or mo gets injured.

You were saying that for entire four years between 2015 and 2019. You demanded that we trust Steve Hansen's selection team, and in the end they failed miserably. We never built combinations because the selectors wanted to keep everyone happy.

[Wild Beef]

I never said that, because I defended BB being selected over Mo’unga precisely as I thought the coaches wanted a known quantity over an unknown one with not much time remaining until the 2019 RWC.

[Wignu]

Having watched the Chiefs SRA games and the game last night I hope to christ MacKenzie gets nowhere near 10 let alone in the game day 23.

[FujiKiwi]

The idea that we have plenty of time is ludicrous. It looks like we’re losing a whole year of truly robust, testing test rugby against a variety of opponents.

Time for some acceleration as far as blooding new players and giving them decent time on the pitch.

EDIT: And then giving them sustained time together to form those combos.

[Gumboot]

The idea that we have plenty of time is ludicrous. It looks like we’re losing a whole year of truly robust, testing test rugby against a variety of opponents.

Time for some acceleration as far as blooding new players and giving them decent time on the pitch.

EDIT: And then giving them sustained time together to form those combos.

Yeah, but all of our test opponents are in the same boat.

Which new players do you think should be accelerated into the match day squad, and which established players would you drop?

[Wild Beef]

3 years is plenty of time. This is the best time to expose as many players to AB rugby as possible so you have players to fall back on if your plans go awry.

Hence why I think Ioane should be in there, but the selectors have historically not liked multiple specialist tens (this isn’t a new thing).

[Kiwias]

I am another who finds Foster's view that Mo, BB, and DMac are the 10s in this squad to be unsettling.

[FujiKiwi]

The idea that we have plenty of time is ludicrous. It looks like we’re losing a whole year of truly robust, testing test rugby against a variety of opponents.

Time for some acceleration as far as blooding new players and giving them decent time on the pitch.

EDIT: And then giving them sustained time together to form those combos.

Yeah, but all of our test opponents are in the same boat.

Which new players do you think should be accelerated into the match day squad, and which established players would you drop?

Fair question, although I think we've had some of these arguments before.

I think Papalii may be the future at 7, and for that reason am disappointed that Cane was made captain, ensuring his ongoing selection regardless of form. But we've had a fierce debate about that already. And that ship has sailed. I fear injuries may mean Cane sits out a lot of the cycle anyway. I take no pleasure in that thought.

I'd have MMT in the squad ahead of Akira Ioane. I know you think MMT has defensive weaknesses, but Akira has his own, well-publicized flaws that have been on display for years now and haven't been addressed.

Will Jordan should get lots of meaningful time at fullback. In my squad, BB would spend a lot of time on the bench and be an impact player.


Josh Ioane should be in the set up. If Mo'unga is injured, Ioane is the best replacement. With Josh Ioane in the squad, and BB fit, I don't see the need for D Mac in the team. That list of outside backs in the squad named is a silly logjam of unnecessary players. I'd drop Clarke and DMac and bring in Josh Ioane and Peter Umaga-Jensen.

Otherwise the squad isn't that bad.

[Wild Beef]

I have no issue with BB being a ten. Far less happy with DMac.

[Kiwias]

Fair question, although I think we've had some of these arguments before.

I think Papalii may be the future at 7, and for that reason am disappointed that Cane was made captain, ensuring his ongoing selection regardless of form. But we've had a fierce debate about that already. And that ship has sailed. I fear injuries may mean Cane sits out a lot of the cycle anyway. I take no pleasure in that thought.

I'd have MMT in the squad ahead of Akira Ioane. I know you think MMT has defensive weaknesses, but Akira has his own, well-publicized flaws that have been on display for years now and haven't been addressed.

Will Jordan should get lots of meaningful time at fullback. In my squad, BB would spend a lot of time on the bench and be an impact player.


Josh Ioane should be in the set up. If Mo'unga is injured, Ioane is the best replacement. With Josh Ioane in the squad, and BB fit, I don't see the need for D Mac in the team. That list of outside backs in the squad named is a silly logjam of unnecessary players. I'd drop Clarke and DMac and bring in Josh Ioane and Peter Umaga-Jensen.

Otherwise the squad isn't that bad.

Yes, yes, and yes for this.

[FujiKiwi]

Oh, and the idea that other teams are "in the same boat" with restricted tests before 2023—and therefore we don't need to accelerate the process of rebuilding a new look squad—doesn't make sense to me. We don't know what those other teams will do. They might go the stuffy, conservative route that I fear Foster will go down*, or they might be more strategically astute.

*Foster will mix keeping with the same old players and combos he feels faithful to, but will also bring in some ludicrous approaches to selection and coaching he will represent as being innovative.

[Kiwias]

Just watching it again and one thing I noticed was that when Reiko Ioane scored his try, JB made contact as he grounded the ball, the sort of stuff we see all the time. What concerned me was that Ioane looked as if he wanted to have a go at JB and one of his team mates grabbing him and pulling him away.

Has Reiko caught the Akira bug of constantly trying to start some bolshery?

[Gumboot]

Which new players do you think should be accelerated into the match day squad, and which established players would you drop?

Fair question, although I think we've had some of these arguments before.

I think Papalii may be the future at 7, and for that reason am disappointed that Cane was made captain, ensuring his ongoing selection regardless of form. But we've had a fierce debate about that already. And that ship has sailed. I fear injuries may mean Cane sits out a lot of the cycle anyway. I take no pleasure in that thought.

I'd have MMT in the squad ahead of Akira Ioane. I know you think MMT has defensive weaknesses, but Akira has his own, well-publicized flaws that have been on display for years now and haven't been addressed.

Will Jordan should get lots of meaningful time at fullback. In my squad, BB would spend a lot of time on the bench and be an impact player.


Josh Ioane should be in the set up. If Mo'unga is injured, Ioane is the best replacement. With Josh Ioane in the squad, and BB fit, I don't see the need for D Mac in the team. That list of outside backs in the squad named is a silly logjam of unnecessary players. I'd drop Clarke and DMac and bring in Josh Ioane and Peter Umaga-Jensen.

Otherwise the squad isn't that bad.

I think Akira has actually addressed a lot of his issues, hence he's back in the fold. And MMT does have loose defence at times, which is why I think the selectors have overlooked him.

If you consistently start Jordan at fullback, where does that leave Jordie Barrett - who isn't as slow as a wet week and is in career-best form?

[FujiKiwi]

Just watching it again and one thing I noticed was that when Reiko Ioane scored his try, JB made contact as he grounded the ball, the sort of stuff we see all the time. What concerned me was that Ioane looked as if he wanted to have a go at JB and one of his team mates grabbing him and pulling him away.

Has Reiko caught the Akira bug of constantly trying to start some bolshery?

It's a family trait. Rieko has always been a dickhead, only relatively less so than his brother.

I noticed that moment too. What a goon.

Good to see some form from him though. He works harder at his key roles than Akira.

[Gumboot]

Oh, and the idea that other teams are "in the same boat" with restricted tests before 2023—and therefore we don't need to accelerate the process of rebuilding a new look squad—doesn't make sense to me. We don't know what those other teams will do. They might go the stuffy, conservative route that I fear Foster will go down*, or they might be more strategically astute.

*Foster will mix keeping with the same old players and combos he feels faithful to, but will also bring in some ludicrous approaches to selection and coaching he will represent as being innovative.

But if no other countries are playing many tests either, how does that disadvantage us?

Regardless, there will be some new faces in the test team - some will cut it and others won't. Time will tell. Let the rebuild begin!

[Wild Beef]

Akira gets the flack but Rieko has been the bigger dick more recently from what I’ve seen.

[FujiKiwi]

If you consistently start Jordan at fullback, where does that leave Jordie Barrett - who isn't as slow as a wet week and is in career-best form?

Like you say, we all see things differently. I like Jordie, and it would be tough on him, but I wouldn't have him on my team.

If anything, he could make his way on as a strong, slow winger, very good under the high ball.

The good news for his backers is that he'll probably be a key part of Fozzie's plans. Not Fozzie's daftest choice if so. JB has several excellent attributes.

[Monkey Magic]

Just watching it again and one thing I noticed was that when Reiko Ioane scored his try, JB made contact as he grounded the ball, the sort of stuff we see all the time. What concerned me was that Ioane looked as if he wanted to have a go at JB and one of his team mates grabbing him and pulling him away.

Has Reiko caught the Akira bug of constantly trying to start some bolshery?

It's a family trait. Rieko has always been a dickhead, only relatively less so than his brother.

I noticed that moment too. What a goon.

Good to see some form from him though. He works harder at his key roles than Akira.

Those two seem to have issues, think they have had similar incidents in blues vs hurricanes games

[Carter's Choice]

Akira gets the flack but Rieko has been the bigger dick more recently from what I’ve seen.

Oh definitely, every time he scores a try he starts a fight with any defenders who happen to be near him. And every time he gets tackled he starts a fight with the tackler. He's a genuine dickhead.

[Not_Couch]

The only chiefs player that deserves to be there is Cane, (and a fit Boshier) what a selection joke this is.

[Carter's Choice]

I can imagine Tupou Vaa'i clapping to himself like a demented seal as the squad was being named today.

[Dan54]

I have no issue with BB being a ten. Far less happy with DMac.

We don't need more than 2 10s, both BB and RM are class players, DMac I doubt will even be on bench, start either BB or RM, Jordie has to be 15, plays the second playmaker well . Josh Ioane bloody unlucky, but I do agree he better to keep playing than just hold tackle bags. pretty happy about Vai'i really like the look of the kid, a good 3 years away from being a top lock but will be good ditto with Grace. Bloody good squad, although I yet to be convinced about Akira, I can live with the fact they see him going in right direction.

[Enzedder]

Looks a good squad overall, and good to see a few deserving young blokes get the call up.

I agree with other posters in stating the first five set up is not as good as it could be. I suspect Bananas and co will not get the best out of either player if it's going to be a competition between Mo'unga and Barrett for the 10 jersey. That will limit the game time of one great player but I guess if Barrett doesn't want to play 15 then we are stuck with it.

As a Highlanders fan you'd have to be disappointed with just two players in the squad, Smith and Frizell? Especially as you went 3-5 whilst the winless 0-8 Chiefs had 6 players selected?

Actually, thinking on that, and add that Boshier and/or Jacobsen would not be out of place in the side, you could really look at Gats and say "You had the cattle - what did you do wrong?"

[Enzedder]

Any Northern sides looking for a scrummie - TTT will be easily bought I reckon. Only problem is, you have to pronounce his name to get him

Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi

[Auckman]

Well I for one welcome Akira Ioane into the AB squad. It's a good environment for him to iron out the rough edges.

Very happy to see Hoskins Sotutu in the team. He needs one test and then NZ has him for good.

[Jb1981]

The lack of Josh Ioane is a strange one. With the chances of test matches questionable at best, surely this was a great opportunity to at least have him in the training environment again.

The previous team missed out on properly blooding Mo’unga in the 18 months before the World Cup and there is a risk that we are missing the chance to strengthen our first-five stock again.

[NotNaki]

Time to use this "new" forum's emojis

Asafo Aumua
Dane Coles
Codie Taylor
Alex Hodgman
Nepo Laulala
Tyrel Lomax
Joe Moody
Karl Tu’inukuafe
Ofa Tuungafasi
Quinten Strange
Patrick Tuipulotu
Tupou Vaa’i
CAPTAIN Samuel Whitelock
Sam Cane
Shannon Frizell
Cullen Grace
Akira Ioane
Dalton Papalii
Ardie Savea
Hoskins Sotutu
TJ Perenara
Aaron Smith
Brad Weber
Beauden Barrett
Richie Mo’unga
Braydon Ennor
Jack Goodhue
Rieko Ioane
Anton Lienert-Brown
Jordie Barrett
George Bridge
Caleb Clarke
Will Jordan
Damian McKenzie
Sevu Reece