The Official English Rugby Thread

[Rhubarb & Custard]

So this whole thing was't about saying academies are a problem, it was just whining that as the top club they should be assigned yet more resources?

That said England will certainly be after more control in the next round of negotiations, so there is scope for more money for certain things in return

[Rhubarb & Custard]

And by the way. Add up how much money Sarries invests each year into youth across England and then compare that to how much the RFU invests into youth rugby across England. If the argument is about the cost of such investment then for any of the top clubs they should be looking to pay the RFU, not the other way around.

Though that of course changes the debate to one where some will contend that's merely because the RFU hold the power and if the clubs had direct control and direct access to funding then it's not really the RFU doing the investment

[Kawazaki]

And by the way. Add up how much money Sarries invests each year into youth across England and then compare that to how much the RFU invests into youth rugby across England. If the argument is about the cost of such investment then for any of the top clubs they should be looking to pay the RFU, not the other way around.

Though that of course changes the debate to one where some will contend that's merely because the RFU hold the power and if the clubs had direct control and direct access to funding then it's not really the RFU doing the investment

The clubs would simply buy players from NZ, South Africa, Australia, Wales, Scotland, France, Samoa, Fiji, Tonga... well hopefully you'll catch on eventually.

[Paddington Bear]

WHL won't be far off sold out Saturday for Sarries Quins.
Plenty to be gloomy about in English rugby but the fact that Prem sides are able to sell 50,000 tickets (Quins having done so on a rescheduled game as well) is a sign of the strength of our league and the progress it has made over a 20 year period.

In before tHeY pRoBaBlY hAnDeD tHeM oUt FoR fReE style comments as well.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

And by the way. Add up how much money Sarries invests each year into youth across England and then compare that to how much the RFU invests into youth rugby across England. If the argument is about the cost of such investment then for any of the top clubs they should be looking to pay the RFU, not the other way around.

Though that of course changes the debate to one where some will contend that's merely because the RFU hold the power and if the clubs had direct control and direct access to funding then it's not really the RFU doing the investment

The clubs would simply buy players from NZ, South Africa, Australia, Wales, Scotland, France, Samoa, Fiji, Tonga... well hopefully you'll catch on eventually.

They're free to do so, with the current agreement anyway, they'd merely lose all the EQP funding they get should those foreign players not be EQP. And intentionally losing funding is an odd undertaking if your contention is you don't get enough central funding.

And again, no one has stripped out the academy at their club and been successful. So if someone wants to chop off their nose an arm and one of their legs to spite their face let them crack on. I figure other clubs will develop their own players, will take advantage of players others in different catchment areas aren't advancing, and those clubs will be better placed for it, even if yes that might not be an outcome that takes 2-3 weeks, probably it'd take at least 2-3 seasons

If the salary cap was done in a way that allowed someone to ape Toulon, and someone was willing to fund it over the longer term that team could still be successful. Or if someone was willing to do a Sarries and ignore the salary cap and be willing to fund such that could work too, but you can't say as things stand Sarries for all their cheating overlook the importance of their academy

[Kawazaki]

And by the way. Add up how much money Sarries invests each year into youth across England and then compare that to how much the RFU invests into youth rugby across England. If the argument is about the cost of such investment then for any of the top clubs they should be looking to pay the RFU, not the other way around.

Though that of course changes the debate to one where some will contend that's merely because the RFU hold the power and if the clubs had direct control and direct access to funding then it's not really the RFU doing the investment

The clubs would simply buy players from NZ, South Africa, Australia, Wales, Scotland, France, Samoa, Fiji, Tonga... well hopefully you'll catch on eventually.

They're free to do so, with the current agreement anyway, they'd merely lose all the EQP funding they get should those foreign players not be EQP. And intentionally losing funding is an odd undertaking if your contention is you don't get enough central funding.

And again, no one has stripped out the academy at their club and been successful. So if someone wants to chop off their nose an arm and one of their legs to spite their face let them crack on. I figure other clubs will develop their own players, will take advantage of players others in different catchment areas aren't advancing, and those clubs will be better placed for it, even if yes that might not be an outcome that takes 2-3 weeks, probably it'd take at least 2-3 seasons

If the salary cap was done in a way that allowed someone to ape Toulon, and someone was willing to fund it over the longer term that team could still be successful. Or if someone was willing to do a Sarries and ignore the salary cap and be willing to fund such that could work too, but you can't say as things stand Sarries for all their cheating overlook the importance of their academy

The Saracens academy is arguably the best run academy in England.

The best Saracens player this season came via the MLR and costs peanuts.

[Happyhooker]

The Saracens academy is arguably the best run academy in England.

What makes you say that?

[Kawazaki]

The Saracens academy is arguably the best run academy in England.

What makes you say that?

Use your imagination.

[Happyhooker]

The Saracens academy is arguably the best run academy in England.

What makes you say that?

Use your imagination.

I was wondering if you had anything to back your statement up apart from your instictive reaction of rubbing yourself raw at the slightest mention of sarries.

Oh well.

[sockwithaticket]

And by the way. Add up how much money Sarries invests each year into youth across England and then compare that to how much the RFU invests into youth rugby across England. If the argument is about the cost of such investment then for any of the top clubs they should be looking to pay the RFU, not the other way around.

Though that of course changes the debate to one where some will contend that's merely because the RFU hold the power and if the clubs had direct control and direct access to funding then it's not really the RFU doing the investment

The clubs would simply buy players from NZ, South Africa, Australia, Wales, Scotland, France, Samoa, Fiji, Tonga... well hopefully you'll catch on eventually.

They're free to do so, with the current agreement anyway, they'd merely lose all the EQP funding they get should those foreign players not be EQP. And intentionally losing funding is an odd undertaking if your contention is you don't get enough central funding.

And again, no one has stripped out the academy at their club and been successful. So if someone wants to chop off their nose an arm and one of their legs to spite their face let them crack on. I figure other clubs will develop their own players, will take advantage of players others in different catchment areas aren't advancing, and those clubs will be better placed for it, even if yes that might not be an outcome that takes 2-3 weeks, probably it'd take at least 2-3 seasons

If the salary cap was done in a way that allowed someone to ape Toulon, and someone was willing to fund it over the longer term that team could still be successful. Or if someone was willing to do a Sarries and ignore the salary cap and be willing to fund such that could work too, but you can't say as things stand Sarries for all their cheating overlook the importance of their academy

Certainly Leciester's decline coincided with Cockerill's apparent refusal to utilise any of the players the Tigers academy produced and Wasps relative turn up in fortunes over the seasons following the move from Adams Park came at a time when we'd restored the academy. It was slightly upsetting, as a fan, to hear 'formerly of Wasps' so frequently in the U20s 6Ns coverage this year with a few of our very recent academy products being stand outs in the England team.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

What makes you say that?

Use your imagination.

I was wondering if you had anything to back your statement up apart from your instictive reaction of rubbing yourself raw at the slightest mention of sarries.

Oh well.

I'm wondering why you'd throw plaudits at the Sarries academy, note some of the best Sarries players come through the academy, and then note academies are a waste of money and not worth the risk.

By all means ask for more money from the RFU, everyone does and that's how it's supposed to work. Just don't have the hissy fit saying if you can't get still more you'd close what's clearly an integral part of a successful club

[inactionman]

WHL won't be far off sold out Saturday for Sarries Quins.
Plenty to be gloomy about in English rugby but the fact that Prem sides are able to sell 50,000 tickets (Quins having done so on a rescheduled game as well) is a sign of the strength of our league and the progress it has made over a 20 year period.

In before tHeY pRoBaBlY hAnDeD tHeM oUt FoR fReE style comments as well.

I've only been to the old WHL, the new stadium is supposed to be cracking. 50k for a club game is superb, I think the stoop is similar capacity to the rec (14-15k about right?) so it's not just regulars going along.

Tottenham/ Seven Sisters isn't a great spot for a post-match beer, mind you I've only been there watching West Ham so might be different when the locals don't want to stab you.

[Kawazaki]

Use your imagination.

I was wondering if you had anything to back your statement up apart from your instictive reaction of rubbing yourself raw at the slightest mention of sarries.

Oh well.

I'm wondering why you'd throw plaudits at the Sarries academy, note some of the best Sarries players come through the academy, and then note academies are a waste of money and not worth the risk.

By all means ask for more money from the RFU, everyone does and that's how it's supposed to work. Just don't have the hissy fit saying if you can't get still more you'd close what's clearly an integral part of a successful club

I didn't say close them. I was waiting for your to accuse me of it. Try more critical thinking.

[Kawazaki]

WHL won't be far off sold out Saturday for Sarries Quins.
Plenty to be gloomy about in English rugby but the fact that Prem sides are able to sell 50,000 tickets (Quins having done so on a rescheduled game as well) is a sign of the strength of our league and the progress it has made over a 20 year period.

In before tHeY pRoBaBlY hAnDeD tHeM oUt FoR fReE style comments as well.

I've only been to the old WHL, the new stadium is supposed to be cracking. 50k for a club game is superb, I think the stoop is similar capacity to the rec (14-15k about right?) so it's not just regulars going along.

Tottenham/ Seven Sisters isn't a great spot for a post-match beer, mind you I've only been there watching West Ham so might be different when the locals don't want to stab you.

Ahem, it's a Saracens home game, not a Quins home game.

[JM2K6]

50k is what we got for the rescheduled big game.

[inactionman]

WHL won't be far off sold out Saturday for Sarries Quins.
Plenty to be gloomy about in English rugby but the fact that Prem sides are able to sell 50,000 tickets (Quins having done so on a rescheduled game as well) is a sign of the strength of our league and the progress it has made over a 20 year period.

In before tHeY pRoBaBlY hAnDeD tHeM oUt FoR fReE style comments as well.

I've only been to the old WHL, the new stadium is supposed to be cracking. 50k for a club game is superb, I think the stoop is similar capacity to the rec (14-15k about right?) so it's not just regulars going along.

Tottenham/ Seven Sisters isn't a great spot for a post-match beer, mind you I've only been there watching West Ham so might be different when the locals don't want to stab you.

Ahem, it's a Saracens home game, not a Quins home game.

The day trippers are only there for Marcus Smith's lovely hair.

[inactionman]

50k is what we got for the rescheduled big game.

When Bath held the horribly named 'Clash' at HQ for a few years running the attendance was 60k+

[Paddington Bear]

WHL won't be far off sold out Saturday for Sarries Quins.
Plenty to be gloomy about in English rugby but the fact that Prem sides are able to sell 50,000 tickets (Quins having done so on a rescheduled game as well) is a sign of the strength of our league and the progress it has made over a 20 year period.

In before tHeY pRoBaBlY hAnDeD tHeM oUt FoR fReE style comments as well.

I've only been to the old WHL, the new stadium is supposed to be cracking. 50k for a club game is superb, I think the stoop is similar capacity to the rec (14-15k about right?) so it's not just regulars going along.

Tottenham/ Seven Sisters isn't a great spot for a post-match beer, mind you I've only been there watching West Ham so might be different when the locals don't want to stab you.

I haven't been to Tottenham for a while with one of the key reasons being that you don't need to be a Hammer for the locals to want to stab you. However I am very curious to see the stadium, then hop into central as soon as practical after the game. Should be a good one.

[JM2K6]

50k is what we got for the rescheduled big game.

When Bath held the horribly named 'Clash' at HQ for a few years running the attendance was 60k+

Yes, and Quins normally get a lot more for their big games. But it turns out when you're forced to completely reschedule at the last minute, during a cost of living crisis and in the middle of the 6N, the numbers get hurt.

[inactionman]

50k is what we got for the rescheduled big game.

When Bath held the horribly named 'Clash' at HQ for a few years running the attendance was 60k+

Yes, and Quins normally get a lot more for their big games. But it turns out when you're forced to completely reschedule at the last minute, during a cost of living crisis and in the middle of the 6N, the numbers get hurt.

I wasn't one-upping, I was pointing out there's a very good market in the round for these sorts of events.

[SaintK]

WHL won't be far off sold out Saturday for Sarries Quins.
Plenty to be gloomy about in English rugby but the fact that Prem sides are able to sell 50,000 tickets (Quins having done so on a rescheduled game as well) is a sign of the strength of our league and the progress it has made over a 20 year period.

In before tHeY pRoBaBlY hAnDeD tHeM oUt FoR fReE style comments as well.

I've only been to the old WHL, the new stadium is supposed to be cracking. 50k for a club game is superb, I think the stoop is similar capacity to the rec (14-15k about right?) so it's not just regulars going along.

Tottenham/ Seven Sisters isn't a great spot for a post-match beer, mind you I've only been there watching West Ham so might be different when the locals don't want to stab you.

I haven't been to Tottenham for a while with one of the key reasons being that you don't need to be a Hammer for the locals to want to stab you. However I am very curious to see the stadium, then hop into central as soon as practical after the game. Should be a good one.

I went to the Sarries/Briz match last season. The stadium is bloody awesome, like a large spaceship has landed on Tottenham High Rd. We had seats up high overlooking the halfway line' son and I did a hospitality package with plenty of food and drink, was bloody expensive but we reckon we nearly broke even on quantities consumed!!!!
We jumped in a cab at full time and headed down to Beavertown and Pressure Drop brewery taprooms in Tottenham Hale

[Brazil]

50k is what we got for the rescheduled big game.

When Bath held the horribly named 'Clash' at HQ for a few years running the attendance was 60k+

20% of those were there out of morbid curiosity though.

[inactionman]

50k is what we got for the rescheduled big game.

When Bath held the horribly named 'Clash' at HQ for a few years running the attendance was 60k+

20% of those were there out of morbid curiosity though.

Bristol weren't that bad, to be fair.

[inactionman]

I've only been to the old WHL, the new stadium is supposed to be cracking. 50k for a club game is superb, I think the stoop is similar capacity to the rec (14-15k about right?) so it's not just regulars going along.

Tottenham/ Seven Sisters isn't a great spot for a post-match beer, mind you I've only been there watching West Ham so might be different when the locals don't want to stab you.

I haven't been to Tottenham for a while with one of the key reasons being that you don't need to be a Hammer for the locals to want to stab you. However I am very curious to see the stadium, then hop into central as soon as practical after the game. Should be a good one.

I went to the Sarries/Briz match last season. The stadium is bloody awesome, like a large spaceship has landed on Tottenham High Rd. We had seats up high overlooking the halfway line' son and I did a hospitality package with plenty of food and drink, was bloody expensive but we reckon we nearly broke even on quantities consumed!!!!
We jumped in a cab at full time and headed down to Beavertown and Pressure Drop brewery taprooms in Tottenham Hale

It does look superb, they've really pushed the boat out.

Tottenham Hale isn't a bad bet, at least it's on the mainline back to civilisation! That's where I got train to when I went for the football, it's a pretty easy walk up from there.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

I was wondering if you had anything to back your statement up apart from your instictive reaction of rubbing yourself raw at the slightest mention of sarries.

Oh well.

I'm wondering why you'd throw plaudits at the Sarries academy, note some of the best Sarries players come through the academy, and then note academies are a waste of money and not worth the risk.

By all means ask for more money from the RFU, everyone does and that's how it's supposed to work. Just don't have the hissy fit saying if you can't get still more you'd close what's clearly an integral part of a successful club

I didn't say close them. I was waiting for your to accuse me of it. Try more critical thinking.

So when you said they're 'just a money pit' you meant you'd still keep them open because in the name of critical thinking you back money pits?

[JM2K6]

When Bath held the horribly named 'Clash' at HQ for a few years running the attendance was 60k+

Yes, and Quins normally get a lot more for their big games. But it turns out when you're forced to completely reschedule at the last minute, during a cost of living crisis and in the middle of the 6N, the numbers get hurt.

I wasn't one-upping, I was pointing out there's a very good market in the round for these sorts of events.

Ah, my bad

[Kawazaki]

I'm wondering why you'd throw plaudits at the Sarries academy, note some of the best Sarries players come through the academy, and then note academies are a waste of money and not worth the risk.

By all means ask for more money from the RFU, everyone does and that's how it's supposed to work. Just don't have the hissy fit saying if you can't get still more you'd close what's clearly an integral part of a successful club

I didn't say close them. I was waiting for your to accuse me of it. Try more critical thinking.

So when you said they're 'just a money pit' you meant you'd still keep them open because in the name of critical thinking you back money pits?

I've written quite a few thoughts on academies in the last page or two. The bit you've isolated was qualified in what terms it's a money pit. It's important to read things.

An academy makes sense if you run a football club because transfer fees are enormous. These fees don't exist in rugby. From an investment risk/return POV an academy is just a money pit.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Isn't the intended inference people take there that academies don't make sense in rugby because you (mostly) don't have to pay transfer fees, and that based on current values academies offer too little return on investment?

[Kawazaki]

Isn't the intended inference people take there that academies don't make sense in rugby because you (mostly) don't have to pay transfer fees, and that based on current values academies offer too little return on investment?

No inference necessary, just read my other posts. It's all there.

[Happyhooker]

WHL won't be far off sold out Saturday for Sarries Quins.
Plenty to be gloomy about in English rugby but the fact that Prem sides are able to sell 50,000 tickets (Quins having done so on a rescheduled game as well) is a sign of the strength of our league and the progress it has made over a 20 year period.

In before tHeY pRoBaBlY hAnDeD tHeM oUt FoR fReE style comments as well.

I've only been to the old WHL, the new stadium is supposed to be cracking. 50k for a club game is superb, I think the stoop is similar capacity to the rec (14-15k about right?) so it's not just regulars going along.

Tottenham/ Seven Sisters isn't a great spot for a post-match beer, mind you I've only been there watching West Ham so might be different when the locals don't want to stab you.

It's not brilliant, but it's improving.

Best pub for beer by miles is the high cross. Antwerp arms not bad, nor is true craft. The beehive is okay as well

There's a few taprooms around that sometimes open specifically for match days. Redemption and pressure drop breweries spring to mind

Edit. I see saintk has covered some of this already

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Isn't the intended inference people take there that academies don't make sense in rugby because you (mostly) don't have to pay transfer fees, and that based on current values academies offer too little return on investment?

No inference necessary, just read my other posts. It's all there.

So don't read that post and consider it says what you think, read some other unspecified posts because those will specify your thoughts?

[Kawazaki]

Isn't the intended inference people take there that academies don't make sense in rugby because you (mostly) don't have to pay transfer fees, and that based on current values academies offer too little return on investment?

No inference necessary, just read my other posts. It's all there.

So don't read that post and consider it says what you think, read some other unspecified posts because those will specify your thoughts?

It's all in sequence and written in English.

HTH

[inactionman]

Mike Ford is part of a consortium who have taken over a 3rd tier RL side, and he reckons Gorgeous George is going to help out as coach and mentor.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... eague-club

Insinuations (if not too strong a term) that George may one day want to play league at the back end of his career.

[sockwithaticket]

Moderately interesting little snippet from Matteo Carreras in the pre-game coverage, reckons that Radwan is a good deal faster than him.

Mike Ford is part of a consortium who have taken over a 3rd tier RL side, and he reckons Gorgeous George is going to help out as coach and mentor.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... eague-club

Insinuations (if not too strong a term) that George may one day want to play league at the back end of his career.

Hopefully not 'til after the next world cup. Can't imagine he'd take the pay decrease while he can still command a top salary in Union.

[Torquemada 1420]

Ref has ridden Falcons all game, home side playing with 14 men for pretty much the entire game.... and Glaws go behind. Textbook example of how not to play v 14 men. LRZ has been muck: butchered 2 trys and defends like Garbajosa.

{EDIT} Make that 3 trys now

[sockwithaticket]

Even if they manage to pull something out of the bag in the last 5 minutes, this performance is indicative of how they've fallen off in recent weeks and dropped so far out of playoff contention.

[sockwithaticket]

Ref has ridden Falcons all game, home side playing with 14 men for pretty much the entire game.... and Glaws go behind. Textbook example of how not to play v 14 men. LRZ has been muck: butchered 2 trys and defends like Garbajosa.

{EDIT} Make that 3 trys now

Spending 2 months in the Welsh camp will do that.

[Torquemada 1420]

Even if they manage to pull something out of the bag in the last 5 minutes, this performance is indicative of how they've fallen off in recent weeks and dropped so far out of playoff contention.

Not seen much Prem this season but if this is anything to go by, it's no wonder Eng is struggling.

[sockwithaticket]

Even if they manage to pull something out of the bag in the last 5 minutes, this performance is indicative of how they've fallen off in recent weeks and dropped so far out of playoff contention.

Not seen much Prem this season but if this is anything to go by, it's no wonder Eng is struggling.

The only Glaws players near the squad are injured (Singleton, Ruskin). The teams we're drawing from are more consistent and further up the table.

That said, the mid- or lower mid-table teams do need to be better to keep the higher table ones sharp.

[Torquemada 1420]

Even if they manage to pull something out of the bag in the last 5 minutes, this performance is indicative of how they've fallen off in recent weeks and dropped so far out of playoff contention.

Not seen much Prem this season but if this is anything to go by, it's no wonder Eng is struggling.

The only Glaws players near the squad are injured (Singleton, Ruskin). The teams we're drawing from are more consistent and further up the table.

That said, the mid- or lower mid-table teams do need to be better to keep the higher table ones sharp.

That's my point. The playing pool looks very shallow.