Stop voting for fucking Tories

Where goats go to escape
Biffer
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inactionman wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:10 am
Biffer wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:57 am
inactionman wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:44 am

It's not really infrastructure - it's more the entire level of support offered to industry, much of which is dependent upon central government incentive and direction. For example, the ability of e.g. SME companies in engineering to raise finance and investment - there is little incentive for banks to lend, given the focus upon the broader fund management typically seen in the City which influences the expected speed and volume of return on investment (engineering will typically return lower and over longer term, so there's typically lesser appetite). I worked for Jaguar Land Rover after it was bought by Tata and they were experiencing a good degree of growth and job creation* - it's important to note that the engineers didn't change, what changed was the degrees and levels of investment in the business itself and in new car programmes.

Infrastructure is an enabler, but a slightly different question.


* eta - I'm referring to a period about 7 ir 8 years ago - I appreciate JLR isn't finding things easy at the moment but all auto industry is suffering, and JLR in particular is quite exposed to Chinese luxury consumers' spending.
Yeah, right enough.

The Germans have an advantage through things like the Landesbanks (SP?), regional banks with limits on their growth so they have to lend within their region. There have been some attempts to do things like Scottish Investment Bank and Green Investment Bank but as soon as they reach a certain size in the UK, there'll be a clamour to sell them off and then they'll just revert to more traditional models.
Definitely. The Landesbank approach gives local industry greater access to funding, with more localised investment imperatives. We just don't have equivalent.

There are other things, too numerous to mention, that we don't seem to have much interest in. Just an example, which I raise as I recall you're engaged in research - UK University research is world class, but we just aren't effective in spinning out, in particular outside of the redbricks. My feeling, which is dated as I left the University sector more than 10 years ago, is that we bodge fundamental research (the sort e.g. EPSRC would fund) and applied research which should take these early findings and exploit, particularly in conjunction with (and often directed by) industry. You end up with a good researcher trying to start up a spin-off, against all odds, or a more industrial researcher not having any fundamental insight to exploit. Germany, by way of contrast, has things like Max Planck institutes for fundamental research, and Fraunhofer Institutes which are specifically industry-funded for direct, industry-facing applied research and development. The remits are clear, the funding routes clear, the industry expectation clear.
Yeah, I am involved in that, and we're trying to find more ways to do it but fuck me it's hard to get traction. The last Labour government started trying to put some of this in motion, studying the Fraunhofers and trying to start something similar in the UK. There's now a Fraunhofer UK, but it only has one centre, in Glasgow for photonics, which has been really successful, but then the Tories came in and basically it was 'we can't be doing anything too German' so they changed to the Catapult model instead. Some of the catapults are good and some are fucking useless. But all round we need more of these RTOs (Research and Technology Organisations - independent not-for-profit research centres that bridge the gap between academia and industry) across many sectors and regions of the UK. There are sectors we can make a real difference in; Space, Quantum Tech, Energy, High value manufacturing, Photonics, Biotech, Pharma and there are multiple others including Food and Drink. All of these RTOs should work on a broadly 1/3-1/3-1/3 funding model, equal parts of income from Government support, competitive grants and industry (and here's the key, they need to be rigid about that model, in the UK we flex that way too much), and additionally supported to take on double the number of graduates, apprentices etc they need to develop the skills base required across industry. The Return on Investment on government spending from this model is massively higher than most other government investments.

However governments in the UK are not into long term investments, they want something shiny to be photographed next to.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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Camroc2
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EnergiseR2 wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:28 am
TB63 wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:12 am
Nah. It's compulsory here as well and of course all the hemp weaving krusty cunts want more dance and bean rubbing but facts are some work is hard
What is happened in Ireland is that all those who did Arts courses in University are all surprised that 5 years after graduation their pals who did stem subjects are employed in high paying jobs, instead of temping, or doing waiting or barrista work as they are.

I think ythat school kids are getting the message.
Biffer
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EnergiseR2 wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:18 pm Look I am cool with the Arts and all the jazz. Most of my favourite artists tell a story of being immensely stupid/unmotivated in school and found solace in music etc. Facts are fuck all make it in the Arts and Pegg is saying give them even less opportunities than they would already have. Anyway as I noted whether ot not you are good at its irrelevant. Some work is hard and some of it you will be shit at. As decent a lesson as there is. Hence why the nerdy birds were made climb up the wooden climbing frames in the gym hall
There are around 3 million people employed in arts and creative sectors in the UK. It contributes over £100billion to the UK economy.

More importantly it's the very definition of how purely financial measures of societal development are bullshit. If you earn double the amount of money but there is no music, no TV, no film, no theatre, no concerts, no creativity at all in society, your quality of life will be dogshit.

It's the very definition of non monetary societal value.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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C69
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More grubby lobbying scandals and agreeing to leak new proposed legislation.

Blackpool doesn't deserve such an MP.
_Os_
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Biffer wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:10 pm
EnergiseR2 wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:18 pm Look I am cool with the Arts and all the jazz. Most of my favourite artists tell a story of being immensely stupid/unmotivated in school and found solace in music etc. Facts are fuck all make it in the Arts and Pegg is saying give them even less opportunities than they would already have. Anyway as I noted whether ot not you are good at its irrelevant. Some work is hard and some of it you will be shit at. As decent a lesson as there is. Hence why the nerdy birds were made climb up the wooden climbing frames in the gym hall
There are around 3 million people employed in arts and creative sectors in the UK. It contributes over £100billion to the UK economy.

More importantly it's the very definition of how purely financial measures of societal development are bullshit. If you earn double the amount of money but there is no music, no TV, no film, no theatre, no concerts, no creativity at all in society, your quality of life will be dogshit.

It's the very definition of non monetary societal value.
Not to mention that if you've built your economy on services like the UK has, then it would be incredibly stupid to go after non-STEM subjects. There's also a classification issue, what some think are humanities subjects may in fact be a BSc.

Humanities type subjects are an excellent choice for someone with real ability in them, they'll end up managing those that did the hard STEM subjects. If someone is brilliant at reading vast amounts of information and writing reports, they'll be wasted in something with a weak language component.

AI is the big threat. Anyone with only a STEM background, who just did it for a meal ticket and isn't actually that exceptional at it, should be really worried and start getting skilled in something on some higher ground. A lot of tech jobs are actually just "can you do this complex tedious task, which is valuable mainly because not many people have the patience to pursue this highly stressful career, before you completely burnout". AI is going to take out a whole swathe of white collar jobs this decade, those basically just doing sums look most in danger.
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C69
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Scott Benton has now been suspended, this really is the tip of the iceberg for the sleaze prick.
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fishfoodie
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C69 wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:12 am Scott Benton has now been suspended, this really is the tip of the iceberg for the sleaze prick.
It sounds like the rats are now rather skittish & only the complete clots will get caught by scams like this
Several MPs ignored the email while one recognised that the job was likely to breach parliamentary rules banning paid lobbying. Another, Craig Whittaker, initially agreed to a meeting but then pulled out saying he thought the company wasn’t genuine and mentioned “negative press this last week from bogus companies scamming high-profile MPs with job offers”. The campaign group Led by Donkeys had just published secretly recorded videos showing Matt Hancock and other MPs discussing their fees for a fake job. Whittaker told this newspaper he was exploring opportunities for after his retirement as an MP at the next general election.

Scott Benton, however, was only too happy to meet.
https://archive.is/OZVHp#selection-1633.0-1637.50
Blackmac
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Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:14 am
TB63 wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:12 am
This is really, really dumb. Our numeracy skills as a nation are embarrassing and it holds us back across the board. There’s no reason you can’t learn maths and be creative, and it is pretty insulting to people’s intelligence to pretend otherwise.

Of course most of us hated maths at school - it’s dull! 99% of school is dull and grinding, the question is whether it prepares you for later life or not. The English school system generally does a poor job of it, and improving our numerical skills would be a step to changing that.
Are we talking Math or Arithmetic though. When I was brought up they were completely different subjects. I was an aeronautical engineer. I used Arithmetic all the time, math irregularly. Math is useless to 99% of the population whereas Arithmetic is essential.
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C69
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So Bad Enoch is going all Culture Wars on us now.
Obsession with gender and safe spaces etc is remarkable
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fishfoodie
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C69 wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 9:34 am So Bad Enoch is going all Culture Wars on us now.
Obsession with gender and safe spaces etc is remarkable
She's not the only one shamelessly mimicking the qanon bollox trotted out by the GOP nutters

https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/politics ... ls-4092959

Its shows the high opinion the Tories have of the critical thinking skills of the average English voter, & the sad part is theyre probably right !


.... it's just as well the economy is fucked, as otherwise they might still win
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Paddington Bear
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Blackmac wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 9:16 am
Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:14 am
TB63 wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:12 am
This is really, really dumb. Our numeracy skills as a nation are embarrassing and it holds us back across the board. There’s no reason you can’t learn maths and be creative, and it is pretty insulting to people’s intelligence to pretend otherwise.

Of course most of us hated maths at school - it’s dull! 99% of school is dull and grinding, the question is whether it prepares you for later life or not. The English school system generally does a poor job of it, and improving our numerical skills would be a step to changing that.
Are we talking Math or Arithmetic though. When I was brought up they were completely different subjects. I was an aeronautical engineer. I used Arithmetic all the time, math irregularly. Math is useless to 99% of the population whereas Arithmetic is essential.
Maths is useful for building cognitive and problem solving skills which have very wide usages. Both also are very useful ‘soft’ skills for life, being numerate makes life a hell of a lot easier, the same principle applies to being highly literate.
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
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tabascoboy
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Any hopes that the local Tories would consider Braverman has gone too far even for them while she seeks a new seat due to redrawn boundaries dashed


Meanwhile she's now having a go at Pakistan



_Os_
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EnergiseR2 wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:31 am
_Os_ wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:06 pm Not to mention that if you've built your economy on services like the UK has, then it would be incredibly stupid to go after non-STEM subjects. There's also a classification issue, what some think are humanities subjects may in fact be a BSc.

Humanities type subjects are an excellent choice for someone with real ability in them, they'll end up managing those that did the hard STEM subjects. If someone is brilliant at reading vast amounts of information and writing reports, they'll be wasted in something with a weak language component.

AI is the big threat. Anyone with only a STEM background, who just did it for a meal ticket and isn't actually that exceptional at it, should be really worried and start getting skilled in something on some higher ground. A lot of tech jobs are actually just "can you do this complex tedious task, which is valuable mainly because not many people have the patience to pursue this highly stressful career, before you completely burnout". AI is going to take out a whole swathe of white collar jobs this decade, those basically just doing sums look most in danger.
I said I agreed with you regarding the value of the Arts. God loves all creatures including singers and comedians. However making young people do hard stuff that they don't much like is important
I think you've got me confused with someone else, I haven't commented previously on this?

SA has compulsory maths and two language subjects to the end of high school. Making people do things they're not actually good at, and by that age they can understand they're not good at it, is a bit different from making people do things that are hard and they dislike. Part of the learning process is things being hard, but if someone has been doing something for years and it's still hard it's either them or the teacher (and they're probably stuck with the teacher regardless). There's a large cohort that leave school in SA, with essentially no skills and no clue about the direction they're heading. Lumping maths onto them hasn't helped.

My suspicion is that basically it's a similar story to SA. There's a known issue with education, so make them do maths. But where is the funding for the additional maths teachers? If a school is under performing does adding more maths help? Is it too expensive for most to get a good education (and in the UK, especially after high school level)? Is there a culture of learning generally in society, is it highly valued, is teaching a highly prestigious profession?

I think the big thing is going to be re-skilling people through life, it's probably advanced economies like the UK where this will be most important. There's a bit of an issue if doing that in adulthood is expensive and there's no general culture of continuous learning.
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Ymx
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Labour hit rock bottom

Especially given their own handling at local level of grooming gangs.

But they’ve the nerve to come out with this …




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C69
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Ymx wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:27 pm Labour hit rock bottom

Especially given their own handling at local level of grooming gangs.

But they’ve the nerve to come out with this …




So these posters are lies ?
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Ymx
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Well, yes, it’s borderline libel, it’s so bad.

It says

Rishi Sunak “thinks” adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should not go to prison.

You can not surely defend this?? Even on this circle jerk off of a thread.
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C69
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Ymx wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:59 pm Well, yes, it’s borderline libel, it’s so bad.

It says

Rishi Sunak “thinks” adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should not go to prison.

You can not surely defend this?? Even on this circle jerk off of a thread.
Defend?
Libel?

I don't support Labour and think Starmer lacks conviction and purpose.
It's no worse than Tory publicity about Saville and Starmer, tbh it's a damn sight more accurate.
GogLais
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Funny, I thought judges sentenced people.
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ASMO
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GogLais wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 11:52 pm Funny, I thought judges sentenced people.
Using legislation created by the government
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Zig
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Ymx wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:59 pm Well, yes, it’s borderline libel, it’s so bad.

It says

Rishi Sunak “thinks” adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should not go to prison.

You can not surely defend this?? Even on this circle jerk off of a thread.
It's a shameful accusation, there should be laws against it.
Rhubarb & Custard
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Whether as an accusation it's right or wrong, and I'd sit firmly in the camp saying it's wrong, it's a bloody asinine thing to do because it's so OTT it can be easily defended with indignation. Having done it they should have said sorry, someone got carried away we apologise and we'll withdraw all such content, not tried to defend it. Now apart from anything else it's just bad politics and could easily cost them votes.

I happen to think you wouldn't be far wrong if instead you made the claim about the Tory party being pro rape, because their actions over and over support racists and harm victims. But even there it'd be a hell of a brazen claim to actually straight up make in public, you'd need something rather more nuanced to make the same point without outrage at the claim being the story rather than the actual point. And the scope to be more nuanced in this or labelling Sunak as they have is vast.
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SaintK
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C69 wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 11:08 pm
Ymx wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:59 pm Well, yes, it’s borderline libel, it’s so bad.

It says

Rishi Sunak “thinks” adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should not go to prison.

You can not surely defend this?? Even on this circle jerk off of a thread.
Defend?
Libel?

I don't support Labour and think Starmer lacks conviction and purpose.
It's no worse than Tory publicity about Saville and Starmer, tbh it's a damn sight more accurate.
It's crass and straight out of the Tory CCHQ playbook as usually promoted by the likes of the Mail and Telegraph and voiced by the likes of Gullis and Anderson.
They must have "focus grouped" it to c heck how it would land with the voting public? Not sure how it will be seen with the average Labour voter mind.
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C69
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SaintK wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 8:00 am
C69 wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 11:08 pm
Ymx wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:59 pm Well, yes, it’s borderline libel, it’s so bad.

It says

Rishi Sunak “thinks” adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should not go to prison.

You can not surely defend this?? Even on this circle jerk off of a thread.
Defend?
Libel?

I don't support Labour and think Starmer lacks conviction and purpose.
It's no worse than Tory publicity about Saville and Starmer, tbh it's a damn sight more accurate.
It's crass and straight out of the Tory CCHQ playbook as usually promoted by the likes of the Mail and Telegraph and voiced by the likes of Gullis and Anderson.
They must have "focus grouped" it to c heck how it would land with the voting public? Not sure how it will be seen with the average Labour voter mind.
Oh it's crass and shouldn't be allowed no doubt
It's a fight to the bottom.
GogLais
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ASMO wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 6:07 am
GogLais wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 11:52 pm Funny, I thought judges sentenced people.
Using legislation created by the government
Labour peer Lord Ahmed of Rotherham jailed for child sex offences in 2022. I mean I’ll still almost certainly vote Labour but this sort of stuff makes me less rather than more likely.
dpedin
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C69 wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 8:34 am
SaintK wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 8:00 am
C69 wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 11:08 pm
Defend?
Libel?

I don't support Labour and think Starmer lacks conviction and purpose.
It's no worse than Tory publicity about Saville and Starmer, tbh it's a damn sight more accurate.
It's crass and straight out of the Tory CCHQ playbook as usually promoted by the likes of the Mail and Telegraph and voiced by the likes of Gullis and Anderson.
They must have "focus grouped" it to c heck how it would land with the voting public? Not sure how it will be seen with the average Labour voter mind.
Oh it's crass and shouldn't be allowed no doubt
It's a fight to the bottom.
Agreed! Labour should stay away from this shit and let the Tories just self destruct from all their incompetence, crookedness, right wing fascism and general odiousness. If your opponent is digging a hole for themselves dont take away their spade or start digging your own hole!
Biffer
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Is this a shot across the bows? A statement that Labour are prepared to play just as dirty and dog whistle headlines as well? Telling the tories that if they sink down to the lowest level the current labour party will fight back too, and there's plenty of ammo after 13 years in power?
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
sockwithaticket
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This isn't quite what I had in mind when wishing for Labour to show a bit more nous and backbone...
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 6:53 am Whether as an accusation it's right or wrong, and I'd sit firmly in the camp saying it's wrong, it's a bloody asinine thing to do because it's so OTT it can be easily defended with indignation. Having done it they should have said sorry, someone got carried away we apologise and we'll withdraw all such content, not tried to defend it. Now apart from anything else it's just bad politics and could easily cost them votes.

I happen to think you wouldn't be far wrong if instead you made the claim about the Tory party being pro rape, because their actions over and over support racists and harm victims. But even there it'd be a hell of a brazen claim to actually straight up make in public, you'd need something rather more nuanced to make the same point without outrage at the claim being the story rather than the actual point. And the scope to be more nuanced in this or labelling Sunak as they have is vast.
There's also the issue that Labour and the Tories are held to different standards, consciously or otherwise. The electorate expect the Tories to be horrible shits (for some that seems to be a large part of the appeall...) and for Labour to take a higher road. Subverting that costs Labour.
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Ymx
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C69
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Really?
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C69
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To digress my mate at a high level in the BMA states there is no way the Jnr Doctors strike will go ahead.
Most medical directors have been told this and have granted leave etc to Consultants next week

To be precise not blocked the staff from taking leave.
However shitloads of Jnr Docs have booked skiing trips.
They have been told they can make up the loss of wages from striking by doing overtime to make up the back logs.
Or been guaranteed locum rates.

Lol
petej
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Ymx wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:59 pm Well, yes, it’s borderline libel, it’s so bad.

It says

Rishi Sunak “thinks” adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should not go to prison.

You can not surely defend this?? Even on this circle jerk off of a thread.
It is crass. The real problem is the huge waits in our justice systems which have got worse and worse over the past 10 years but people are too stupid to realise such things and concentrate on new laws and bullshit rather than actually being able to apply existing ones.

Not unusual to be unable to apply existing laws and regulations in the land of shit rivers, poo beaches and rip off energy in a country very well situated for net zero.
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Ymx
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C69 wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 8:28 pm To digress my mate at a high level in the BMA states there is no way the Jnr Doctors strike will go ahead.
Most medical directors have been told this and have granted leave etc to Consultants next week

To be precise not blocked the staff from taking leave.
However shitloads of Jnr Docs have booked skiing trips.
They have been told they can make up the loss of wages from striking by doing overtime to make up the back logs.
Or been guaranteed locum rates.

Lol
Do they really start on only £29k ?
Biffer
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Ymx wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 7:23 am
C69 wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 8:28 pm To digress my mate at a high level in the BMA states there is no way the Jnr Doctors strike will go ahead.
Most medical directors have been told this and have granted leave etc to Consultants next week

To be precise not blocked the staff from taking leave.
However shitloads of Jnr Docs have booked skiing trips.
They have been told they can make up the loss of wages from striking by doing overtime to make up the back logs.
Or been guaranteed locum rates.

Lol
Do they really start on only £29k ?
Yup

https://www.bma.org.uk/media/5504/bma-j ... 2-2023.pdf

Enhanced hours and weekend allowances are on top of that, but that’s the lowest basic.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
GogLais
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Biffer wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 10:59 am
Ymx wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 7:23 am
C69 wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 8:28 pm To digress my mate at a high level in the BMA states there is no way the Jnr Doctors strike will go ahead.
Most medical directors have been told this and have granted leave etc to Consultants next week

To be precise not blocked the staff from taking leave.
However shitloads of Jnr Docs have booked skiing trips.
They have been told they can make up the loss of wages from striking by doing overtime to make up the back logs.
Or been guaranteed locum rates.

Lol
Do they really start on only £29k ?
Yup

https://www.bma.org.uk/media/5504/bma-j ... 2-2023.pdf

Enhanced hours and weekend allowances are on top of that, but that’s the lowest basic.
So assuming they work more than forty hours it’s little more than adult minimum wage.
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SaintK
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petej wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 8:58 pm
Ymx wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:59 pm Well, yes, it’s borderline libel, it’s so bad.

It says

Rishi Sunak “thinks” adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should not go to prison.

You can not surely defend this?? Even on this circle jerk off of a thread.
It is crass. The real problem is the huge waits in our justice systems which have got worse and worse over the past 10 years but people are too stupid to realise such things and concentrate on new laws and bullshit rather than actually being able to apply existing ones.

Not unusual to be unable to apply existing laws and regulations in the land of shit rivers, poo beaches and rip off energy in a country very well situated for net zero.
!0+ years of austerity have decimated the whole judicial system which is now hugely understaffed at all levels. There is a lack of JP's and judges, the CPS has vacancies coming out od it's ears, barristers are talking with their feet as fees are so low in the le3gal aid system and the probation and other support services are in tatters
Then you have to remember that cunts as incompetent as Grayling and Raab have been responsible for overseeing the whole shebang.
Biffer
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GogLais wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:05 am
Biffer wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 10:59 am
Ymx wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 7:23 am

Do they really start on only £29k ?
Yup

https://www.bma.org.uk/media/5504/bma-j ... 2-2023.pdf

Enhanced hours and weekend allowances are on top of that, but that’s the lowest basic.
So assuming they work more than forty hours it’s little more than adult minimum wage.
No, that's the salary for 40 hour weeks as per the table. Base salary goes up to 48 hour week and then the enhanced hours. So if you're on 45 hours plus 14 enhanced, you're on 36862, then if you do 1 in 5 weekends you get another £1764
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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C69
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Biffer wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:27 am
GogLais wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:05 am
Biffer wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 10:59 am

Yup

https://www.bma.org.uk/media/5504/bma-j ... 2-2023.pdf

Enhanced hours and weekend allowances are on top of that, but that’s the lowest basic.
So assuming they work more than forty hours it’s little more than adult minimum wage.
No, that's the salary for 40 hour weeks as per the table. Base salary goes up to 48 hour week and then the enhanced hours. So if you're on 45 hours plus 14 enhanced, you're on 36862, then if you do 1 in 5 weekends you get another £1764
Let's face it in reality for the first few years they are basically looked after like no one else in the NHS they have a very priviliged work environment.
Massive amounts of time for training and education and little responisbility.
The new starters can and do make many senior doctors lives a misery with the false accussations of bullying and harrassment card never too far from the suface if the new starters are criticised.
It's a very strange dynamic.
GogLais
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Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:06 pm
Location: Wirral/Cilgwri

Biffer wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:27 am
GogLais wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:05 am
Biffer wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 10:59 am

Yup

https://www.bma.org.uk/media/5504/bma-j ... 2-2023.pdf

Enhanced hours and weekend allowances are on top of that, but that’s the lowest basic.
So assuming they work more than forty hours it’s little more than adult minimum wage.
No, that's the salary for 40 hour weeks as per the table. Base salary goes up to 48 hour week and then the enhanced hours. So if you're on 45 hours plus 14 enhanced, you're on 36862, then if you do 1 in 5 weekends you get another £1764
Ok, ta. Still only £3 or £4/hour more than minimum wage then. Fwiw the very small sample of retired medics that Ms GL plays bridge with were unsympathetic on the lines of they get well paid eventually. What proportion of JDs become consultants? Presumably not all.
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C69
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:42 pm

GogLais wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 1:15 pm
Biffer wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:27 am
GogLais wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:05 am
So assuming they work more than forty hours it’s little more than adult minimum wage.
No, that's the salary for 40 hour weeks as per the table. Base salary goes up to 48 hour week and then the enhanced hours. So if you're on 45 hours plus 14 enhanced, you're on 36862, then if you do 1 in 5 weekends you get another £1764
Ok, ta. Still only £3 or £4/hour more than minimum wage then. Fwiw the very small sample of retired medics that Ms GL plays bridge with were unsympathetic on the lines of they get well paid eventually. What proportion of JDs become consultants? Presumably not all.
The JD term is raher strange, it encompasses everyone who is not a GP or a Consultant.
I work with about 7 or 8 "Juniors" the range in age from 23 to 76.
Some will be on well over £100k pa
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Ymx
Posts: 8557
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:03 pm



Just lol.


Though I’d say only BJ might rival that.
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