The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[robmatic]

Seb Cancelliere staying at Glasgow. Great news, he's a brilliant winger. Looks like the Warriors will manage to keep their playing group pretty much intact for next season. Will be interesting to see if they can go above what they have done this season.

That's a really good piece of work , and on a confirmed two year deal as well

Glasgow are really light on wingers, especially with Cole Forbes leaving at the end of the season. It is the one major area that Glasgow could do with strengthing.

Saying that , seeing Johnny Matthews sprinting to score that try against the Dragons , a Scouser Lomu perhaps

I can't help but feel Glasgow are light at ten as well

They have been fortunate that Jordan has stepped up so well this season, although I think his kicking game is still probably not good enough for a top team. It doesn't help that Weir is basically not at the races any more. Miotti is an odd one as well, he's looked really good when I've seen him play but neither Danny Wilson or Franco have seemed to fancy him and he has apparently had some poor games.

Hopefully Thompson will come back strongly from his injury travails and give them a game managing option.

[dpedin]

I think Jordan suits the Glasgow style of play very well - he is strong, plays at pace and has good hands. They have any number of options for kicking to touch when exiting their 22 - McDowell, Smith, etc - and have a number of players who can play as a second 10 off phased play. I like the way Franco spreads responsibility around the backs and isn't solely dependant the 10 to be the pivot and do all the kicking or decision making and I think this has been a key to their success, they often switch centres around to keep opposition guessing about where the plays are going to happen and often use Jordan as the battering ram in first phase. Having a traditional 10 a la Thomson will be a good option in certain games where the gameplan is to use dominance up front and use their line out, scrum and maul as their key attacking threat. I imagine Franc will continue to play horses for courses depending on the opposition.

[KingBlairhorn]

That's a really good piece of work , and on a confirmed two year deal as well

Glasgow are really light on wingers, especially with Cole Forbes leaving at the end of the season. It is the one major area that Glasgow could do with strengthing.

Saying that , seeing Johnny Matthews sprinting to score that try against the Dragons , a Scouser Lomu perhaps

I can't help but feel Glasgow are light at ten as well

They have been fortunate that Jordan has stepped up so well this season, although I think his kicking game is still probably not good enough for a top team. It doesn't help that Weir is basically not at the races any more. Miotti is an odd one as well, he's looked really good when I've seen him play but neither Danny Wilson or Franco have seemed to fancy him and he has apparently had some poor games.

Hopefully Thompson will come back strongly from his injury travails and give them a game managing option.

It's a shame a deal couldn't have been done to bring Finn back - I think he would love to play in this Glasgow team and Thompson would probably have come on leaps and bounds as his understudy. I doubt there is another SQ 10 good enough (other than maybe hastings or Finn Smith) so I guess Glasgow will have to look abroad - their buying power in comparison with the southern hemisphere and England should be sufficient to bring in a really good player though.

I agree Weir's race is run though, I'd be surprised if he keeps going after this season - he's been a hell of a servant though and has made a great career from his talent. By all accounts he's a lovely guy too so good luck to him.

I had no ideal Cole Forbes is leaving - has he said where to? Back to NZ?

[clydecloggie]

I think Jordan suits the Glasgow style of play very well - he is strong, plays at pace and has good hands. They have any number of options for kicking to touch when exiting their 22 - McDowell, Smith, etc - and have a number of players who can play as a second 10 off phased play. I like the way Franco spreads responsibility around the backs and isn't solely dependant the 10 to be the pivot and do all the kicking or decision making and I think this has been a key to their success, they often switch centres around to keep opposition guessing about where the plays are going to happen and often use Jordan as the battering ram in first phase. Having a traditional 10 a la Thomson will be a good option in certain games where the gameplan is to use dominance up front and use their line out, scrum and maul as their key attacking threat. I imagine Franc will continue to play horses for courses depending on the opposition.

The great quality of this Glasgow side is that they offer so many options in attack that they're very hard to defend against. The support play is utterly brilliant. Part of that is, ironically, playing without a standard 10. Distribution duties are shared between 9, 10 and the centres, and Jordan at 10 plays crash-ball centre regularly. It's a really interesting game plan that fits the Glasgow heritage and this group of players (including the forwards) perfectly.

They also employ 7s tactics - witness Jack Dempsey trudging back away from the Scarlets defensive line last weekend because he didn't like the match-up and passing back infield for others to get the attack going again - pure 7s, unheard of in XVs.

[Dogbert]

Glasgow Warriors for Munster

Really strong Team Franco is putting out for this one , not keeping his powder dry fot Toulon

Couple of interesting calls - with Stafford coming in at 12 , with Shuggie on the bench. I suspect Franco sees this as a brusing encounter, and Stafford is no shrinking violet

No real cover if Jordan gets injured either, but I'm sure Franco has this all in hand

Munster have nothing else to play for this season , so I'm sure they will throw the kitchen sink at us

15 Ollie Smith

14 Sebastian Cancelliere
13 Sione Tuipulotu
12 Stafford McDowall
11 Kyle Steyn (Captain)

10 Tom Jordan
9 George Horne

1 Jamie Bhatti
2 Johnny Matthews
3 Zander Fagerson
4 Scott Cummings
5 Richie Gray
6 Matt Fagerson
7 Rory Darge
8 Jack Dempsey

Substitutes

16 Fraser Brown
17 Nathan McBeth
18 Simon Berghan
19 JP du Preez
20 Lewis Bean
21 Sione Vailanu
22 Ali Price
23 Huw Jones

Unavailable for selection: Facundo Cordero (hamstring), Cole Forbes (hamstring), Jamie Dobie (knee), Sintu Manjezi (knee), Jack Mann (head), Josh McKay (foot), Cameron Neild (calf), Ross Thompson (foot)

[I like neeps]

Glasgow Warriors for Munster

Really strong Team Franco is putting out for this one , not keeping his powder dry fot Toulon

Couple of interesting calls - with Stafford coming in at 12 , with Shuggie on the bench. I suspect Franco sees this as a brusing encounter, and Stafford is no shrinking violet

No real cover if Jordan gets injured either, but I'm sure Franco has this all in hand

Munster have nothing else to play for this season , so I'm sure they will throw the kitchen sink at us

15 Ollie Smith

14 Sebastian Cancelliere
13 Sione Tuipulotu
12 Stafford McDowall
11 Kyle Steyn (Captain)

10 Tom Jordan
9 George Horne

1 Jamie Bhatti
2 Johnny Matthews
3 Zander Fagerson
4 Scott Cummings
5 Richie Gray
6 Matt Fagerson
7 Rory Darge
8 Jack Dempsey

Substitutes

16 Fraser Brown
17 Nathan McBeth
18 Simon Berghan
19 JP du Preez
20 Lewis Bean
21 Sione Vailanu
22 Ali Price
23 Huw Jones

Unavailable for selection: Facundo Cordero (hamstring), Cole Forbes (hamstring), Jamie Dobie (knee), Sintu Manjezi (knee), Jack Mann (head), Josh McKay (foot), Cameron Neild (calf), Ross Thompson (foot)

George Horne will have to play 10 if Jordan gets injured... It's a risk for sure.

[Big D]

Clear red that.

[KingBlairhorn]

Clear red that.

Agreed. They should be well clear but they’ll be lucky to stay in this now.

[Big D]

He's brave an all but that's a shocker really. No need to not wrap and the touchline as an extra defender so didn't need to really do much with a legal tackle.

[Yr Alban]

Just turned it on a few mins ago and was trying to figure out how Glasgow could be doing so badly. That explains it. They are completely fecked now.

[Jock42]

Well that's a complete anticlimax after a 12 hourshift. Cheers Glasgow.

[dkm57]

Well that's the weekend f#cked

[KingBlairhorn]

Someone please explain this to me because for the life of me I don’t get it. Glasgow come out after the break, win the kickoff, in their 22, box kick and lose it then under huge pressure. Why is it in any way better to box kick than smash it long? It seems so brainless to me. Is it that a box kick is a 50/50 and a long kick is 100% giving away possession? Surely a lineout is also a chance to turn over possession?

[Yr Alban]

Given that Glasgow played with 14 v 15 for 50 minutes and 13 v 15 for 5, you could argue the final result could have been worse. Munster didn’t score a point in the second half and only scored 2 points more than Glasgow following the red card. All about the result though.

[SomersetJock]

Bit gutted about last nights match result, definite red and for all I think he was unlucky as to how it turned out he had to go. In fact I’m almost relieved we don’t have to face Leinster in Dublin the week before the final.

More annoyed at Tuipulotu’s yellow though and I think it’s something that World Rugby need to look at. For me he did nothing to cause the collision and if anything his attempt at getting low which is what they are encouraged to do is what resulted in the blame somehow heading his way.

If a ball carrier can get a red card for leading with an arm which makes contact with a defenders head then why isn’t it the same for barging in head first at the defenders head. Had Sione dived in and met him half way then fair enough but all he did was stand his ground !

Thankfully the ref decided to go down the yellow route but he could just as easily red carded him and he would most likely have missed the final in a couple of weeks as a result.

[Tichtheid]

Bit gutted about last nights match result, definite red and for all I think he was unlucky as to how it turned out he had to go. In fact I’m almost relieved we don’t have to face Leinster in Dublin the week before the final.

More annoyed at Tuipulotu’s yellow though and I think it’s something that World Rugby need to look at. For me he did nothing to cause the collision and if anything his attempt at getting low which is what they are encouraged to do is what resulted in the blame somehow heading his way.

If a ball carrier can get a red card for leading with an arm which makes contact with a defenders head then why isn’t it the same for barging in head first at the defenders head. Had Sione dived in and met him half way then fair enough but all he did was stand his ground !

Thankfully the ref decided to go down the yellow route but he could just as easily red carded him and he would most likely have missed the final in a couple of weeks as a result.

I thought the ref had a good game, he missed a couple of things if you were supporting Glasgow, I would wager you'd see the same if you were supporting Munster.

He mitigated the card down from red precisely for the reasons you state, his description was that it was a "passive" tackle.

Munster's defence was outstanding and the match was brutal in its intensity - much like the Scotland/Ireland game a couple of months ago

[Simian]

He seemed quicker than most (to me, anyway) to call maul and we didn’t adapt to it.

[SomersetJock]

Bit gutted about last nights match result, definite red and for all I think he was unlucky as to how it turned out he had to go. In fact I’m almost relieved we don’t have to face Leinster in Dublin the week before the final.

More annoyed at Tuipulotu’s yellow though and I think it’s something that World Rugby need to look at. For me he did nothing to cause the collision and if anything his attempt at getting low which is what they are encouraged to do is what resulted in the blame somehow heading his way.

If a ball carrier can get a red card for leading with an arm which makes contact with a defenders head then why isn’t it the same for barging in head first at the defenders head. Had Sione dived in and met him half way then fair enough but all he did was stand his ground !

Thankfully the ref decided to go down the yellow route but he could just as easily red carded him and he would most likely have missed the final in a couple of weeks as a result.

I thought the ref had a good game, he missed a couple of things if you were supporting Glasgow, I would wager you'd see the same if you were supporting Munster.

He mitigated the card down from red precisely for the reasons you state, his description was that it was a "passive" tackle.

Munster's defence was outstanding and the match was brutal in its intensity - much like the Scotland/Ireland game a couple of months ago

I just don’t get how the responsibility to prevent a head knock is with a defending player who isn’t moving into the attacking player. Especially when we have seen yellows and reds for ball carriers leading with their arms, why not when they lead with their heads ?

I have no particular gripe with the refs performance, just think the laws are a bit squiffy on this one.

[Blackmac]

Someone please explain this to me because for the life of me I don’t get it. Glasgow come out after the break, win the kickoff, in their 22, box kick and lose it then under huge pressure. Why is it in any way better to box kick than smash it long? It seems so brainless to me. Is it that a box kick is a 50/50 and a long kick is 100% giving away possession? Surely a lineout is also a chance to turn over possession?

I said that on the match thread. Just can't see the point in box kicking the ball when you are behind on the score and down to 14. Just allows the other team to run the ball back at a depleted defence.
It just amazes me how often our teams fail to step up to the mark, or have brain farts in big games, especially the ones they have a reasonable expectation of winning. Hopefully Glasgow will finally set that straight in the Cup final.

[KingBlairhorn]

Bit gutted about last nights match result, definite red and for all I think he was unlucky as to how it turned out he had to go. In fact I’m almost relieved we don’t have to face Leinster in Dublin the week before the final.

More annoyed at Tuipulotu’s yellow though and I think it’s something that World Rugby need to look at. For me he did nothing to cause the collision and if anything his attempt at getting low which is what they are encouraged to do is what resulted in the blame somehow heading his way.

If a ball carrier can get a red card for leading with an arm which makes contact with a defenders head then why isn’t it the same for barging in head first at the defenders head. Had Sione dived in and met him half way then fair enough but all he did was stand his ground !

Thankfully the ref decided to go down the yellow route but he could just as easily red carded him and he would most likely have missed the final in a couple of weeks as a result.

I thought the ref had a good game, he missed a couple of things if you were supporting Glasgow, I would wager you'd see the same if you were supporting Munster.

He mitigated the card down from red precisely for the reasons you state, his description was that it was a "passive" tackle.

Munster's defence was outstanding and the match was brutal in its intensity - much like the Scotland/Ireland game a couple of months ago

I just don’t get how the responsibility to prevent a head knock is with a defending player who isn’t moving into the attacking player. Especially when we have seen yellows and reds for ball carriers leading with their arms, why not when they lead with their heads ?

I have no particular gripe with the refs performance, just think the laws are a bit squiffy on this one.

I suppose the answer to that is ‘what’s the alternative for the ball carrier’? They can’t protect their head with an arm as you say, they can’t run with their head held out the way, they can’t dip into contact to avoid collision as the tackler may also dip. The onus has to be on the tackler as they have all the options. Tacklers go high to target the ball and prevent the offload, not because it’s the most effective tackle location. Tuipolotu, as much as I agree he was unlucky, caused the head contact.

[Tichtheid]

Bit gutted about last nights match result, definite red and for all I think he was unlucky as to how it turned out he had to go. In fact I’m almost relieved we don’t have to face Leinster in Dublin the week before the final.

More annoyed at Tuipulotu’s yellow though and I think it’s something that World Rugby need to look at. For me he did nothing to cause the collision and if anything his attempt at getting low which is what they are encouraged to do is what resulted in the blame somehow heading his way.

If a ball carrier can get a red card for leading with an arm which makes contact with a defenders head then why isn’t it the same for barging in head first at the defenders head. Had Sione dived in and met him half way then fair enough but all he did was stand his ground !

Thankfully the ref decided to go down the yellow route but he could just as easily red carded him and he would most likely have missed the final in a couple of weeks as a result.

I thought the ref had a good game, he missed a couple of things if you were supporting Glasgow, I would wager you'd see the same if you were supporting Munster.

He mitigated the card down from red precisely for the reasons you state, his description was that it was a "passive" tackle.

Munster's defence was outstanding and the match was brutal in its intensity - much like the Scotland/Ireland game a couple of months ago

I just don’t get how the responsibility to prevent a head knock is with a defending player who isn’t moving into the attacking player. Especially when we have seen yellows and reds for ball carriers leading with their arms, why not when they lead with their heads ?

I have no particular gripe with the refs performance, just think the laws are a bit squiffy on this one.

It's a little bit similar to how the fielding of the high ball is refereed, if you catch it you are pretty much absolved of any responsibility for safety which moves on to the other player trying to catch it

[Tichtheid]

Hawick's Green Machine is back in business, securing a league and cup double this season.

[Biffer]

My main criticism of the ref would be he seemed to forget that the offside law existed. Munster standing offside at about half the breakdowns.

[Slick]

Hawick's Green Machine is back in business, securing a league and cup double this season.

Wonder if Hoggy will turn out for them a few times next year

[Jockaline]

Bit gutted about last nights match result, definite red and for all I think he was unlucky as to how it turned out he had to go. In fact I’m almost relieved we don’t have to face Leinster in Dublin the week before the final.

More annoyed at Tuipulotu’s yellow though and I think it’s something that World Rugby need to look at. For me he did nothing to cause the collision and if anything his attempt at getting low which is what they are encouraged to do is what resulted in the blame somehow heading his way.

If a ball carrier can get a red card for leading with an arm which makes contact with a defenders head then why isn’t it the same for barging in head first at the defenders head. Had Sione dived in and met him half way then fair enough but all he did was stand his ground !

Thankfully the ref decided to go down the yellow route but he could just as easily red carded him and he would most likely have missed the final in a couple of weeks as a result.

The ball carrier was more culpable in my option too. He's the one moving so can change path and try to go round the stationary player. It seems they are untouchable in this, and if not looked could lead to coaches encouraging players to go looking for red cards. Or just class it as a rugby collision and not penalise anyone. Sione just stood his ground, may have braced himself a bit, but not really making a tackle, he can't just transport himself somewhere else.

[SaintK]

Hawick's Green Machine is back in business, securing a league and cup double this season.

Wonder if Hoggy will turn out for them a few times next year

Thought I read somewhere he was staying in Devon due to kids schooling?

[Blackmac]

My main criticism of the ref would be he seemed to forget that the offside law existed. Munster standing offside at about half the breakdowns.

Never more so than in the tight exchanges whilst defending their try line. Coming in from any angle, competing for the ball late and just generally doing whatever they wanted.

[Simian]

My main criticism of the ref would be he seemed to forget that the offside law existed. Munster standing offside at about half the breakdowns.

Never more so than in the tight exchanges whilst defending their try line. Coming in from any angle, competing for the ball late and just generally doing whatever they wanted.

It’s never reffed properly. It seems to be one of those ones like calling hands off where refs think it doesn’t have a ‘material effect’, when it very clearly does.

[Simian]

And we’re a side whose attacking shape seems largely set up to encourage / invite oppo midfield to fly up fast so we can play behind our ‘flat’ line and get outside the defence.

Shudder to think how raging about I’d be if we weren’t!

(Was a much bigger issue once we lost Jordan tho, tbf)

[Biffer]

My main criticism of the ref would be he seemed to forget that the offside law existed. Munster standing offside at about half the breakdowns.

Never more so than in the tight exchanges whilst defending their try line. Coming in from any angle, competing for the ball late and just generally doing whatever they wanted.

It’s never reffed properly. It seems to be one of those ones like calling hands off where refs think it doesn’t have a ‘material effect’, when it very clearly does.

It annoys me so much. When you hear journos / tv analysts going on about how the best players can do something special with half a yard, and then they don’t give a toss about that half yard being taken away by teams being permanently offside, I want to put my foot through the tv.

[Simian]

Never more so than in the tight exchanges whilst defending their try line. Coming in from any angle, competing for the ball late and just generally doing whatever they wanted.

It’s never reffed properly. It seems to be one of those ones like calling hands off where refs think it doesn’t have a ‘material effect’, when it very clearly does.

It annoys me so much. When you hear journos / tv analysts going on about how the best players can do something special with half a yard, and then they don’t give a toss about that half yard being taken away by teams being permanently offside, I want to put my foot through the tv.

Yep. Same when pundits and comms make a big deal about <1 second in ruckspeed, while a ref shouts hands off.

I know it’s a peak boomer-rugby-fan to say (I’m gen x, thank you), but just enforce the laws ffs :/

[Jock42]

Bradbury got players player of the season award.

[Big D]

Bradbury got players player of the season award.

Would think he is pissing against the wind in terms of a RWC spot but deserves a training squad call up.

[clydecloggie]

Bradbury got players player of the season award.

Would think he is pissing against the wind in terms of a RWC spot but deserves a training squad call up.

Back row is ridiculously competitive, and with Fagerson and Dempsey in position it will be difficult for Bradbury to make his way back in. Still think he deserves to be in the training squad and play one or two of the warm ups - who knows if he hits the right form at the right time. Currently I'd say the back rows in the RWC squad would be Ritchie, Fagerson, Dempsey, Darge and one of Watson or Crosbie, with Skinner likely in as a lock/6 hybrid (especially because Jonny Gray is most likely out of contention).

[clydecloggie]

[I like neeps]

Probably the right decision and probably the right process to look around for other competitive candidates

[KingBlairhorn]

It’s never reffed properly. It seems to be one of those ones like calling hands off where refs think it doesn’t have a ‘material effect’, when it very clearly does.

It annoys me so much. When you hear journos / tv analysts going on about how the best players can do something special with half a yard, and then they don’t give a toss about that half yard being taken away by teams being permanently offside, I want to put my foot through the tv.

Yep. Same when pundits and comms make a big deal about <1 second in ruckspeed, while a ref shouts hands off.

I know it’s a peak boomer-rugby-fan to say (I’m gen x, thank you), but just enforce the laws ffs :/

We were chatting about this a few weeks ago on this thread, the concept of refs coaching players through a game is infuriating. ‘Hands off’ is an acknowledgement a penalty offence has occurred as they are using their hands in the ruck. It’s up to the players to know when the ruck has formed. Equally ‘off your feet’, if a player is off their feet they should know. I recognise of course that it is a very thin line, but maybe discouraging the relentless slowing of ball would help solve many other issues in rugby, most notably the ‘need’ for running clear outs from 10m+ that are a) exceptionally dangerous and b) causing a lot of red cards.

On the other side, shouting ‘back foot’ or shooing players backward is also interfering with the game. Perhaps the offside line needs to be moved back from the ruck (say 1m from hindmost foot or the goal line) as at the moment it is too easy to kill momentum and refs seem unable to see/ref the constant encroachment.

[Slick]

Probably the right decision and probably the right process to look around for other competitive candidates

Yup. I’m pleased. The contract running until a year before the next WC isn’t a great message of confidence mind you

[Slick]

Hawick's Green Machine is back in business, securing a league and cup double this season.

Wonder if Hoggy will turn out for them a few times next year

Thought I read somewhere he was staying in Devon due to kids schooling?

Haven’t seen that. I’d be surprised but who knows

[clydecloggie]

Probably the right decision and probably the right process to look around for other competitive candidates

Yup. I’m pleased. The contract running until a year before the next WC isn’t a great message of confidence mind you

It's a bit odd - 3 6N campaigns after the RWC, basically. Win one and move on? 18 months for a new coach to put his stamp on the team before the RWC is just about doable but not ideal, especially if the key assistant coaches need to change as well.