Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy

Where goats go to escape
Post Reply
User avatar
Insane_Homer
Posts: 5389
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:14 pm
Location: Leafy Surrey

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/lawrence-dal ... lear-debt/
Former England rugby union star Lawrence Dallaglio has been given more time to clear his tax debt, which is estimated to be around £700,000.

Judge Sebastian Prentis heard Mr Dallaglio’s case at an Insolvency and Companies Court hearing in London as he tries to avoid bankruptcy.

Mr Dallaglio is trying to raise money by selling a property, according to HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC), which has lodged a bankruptcy petition.

His case will be reconsidered in the next three months, the judge said on Tuesday. Mr Dallaglio was not at the hearing.
“Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.”
inactionman
Posts: 3064
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:37 am

did he take a haircut with Wasps' demise, or just generally a bit lax with money?

These always sound like some tax avoidance scheme going wrong, so I'm going to take a punt he hasn't received the sharpest financial and accounting advice. Seven hundred grand, that's a lot.
User avatar
Kawazaki
Posts: 4799
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:25 am

£700k suggests it's accumulated over quite a long period of time.
User avatar
SaintK
Posts: 6620
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:49 am
Location: Over there somewhere

His business acumen and management must be as shite as his rugby commentary and punditry
User avatar
Jim Lahey
Posts: 1011
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:26 am

SaintK wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:56 am His business acumen and management must be as shite as his rugby commentary and punditry
I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.

God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt :thumbup:

Hope it all works out for him.
Ian Madigan for Ireland.
I like neeps
Posts: 3584
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:37 am

When he retired in 2008, Dallaglio told the Financial Times how he had made his 'first million', adding: 'I think one has a responsibility to ensure that the taxman does not get everything.
:lol: how's this going him?

Bit of a George Best. Spent all his money on cocaine, brass and tax avoidance. The rest he just wasted.
User avatar
SaintK
Posts: 6620
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:49 am
Location: Over there somewhere

Jim Lahey wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:59 am
SaintK wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:56 am His business acumen and management must be as shite as his rugby commentary and punditry
I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.

God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt :thumbup:

Hope it all works out for him.
Loved him as a player and indeed he is better than Monye and Healey
I also played 8 though being an elderly fart my favourite 8 was Andy Ripley...........in full stride :thumbup:
Biffer
Posts: 9141
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:43 pm

Jim Lahey wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:59 am
SaintK wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:56 am His business acumen and management must be as shite as his rugby commentary and punditry
I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.

God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt :thumbup:

Hope it all works out for him.
Comparing to Healy and Monye isn't exactly a hug bar, is it!?

£700k of unpaid tax must be either a failed scheme, deliberate short payments of hiding of income over an extended period or something similar. Not sure why criminal prosecution isn't involved here.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
sockwithaticket
Posts: 8663
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:48 am

Jim Lahey wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:59 am
SaintK wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:56 am His business acumen and management must be as shite as his rugby commentary and punditry
I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.

God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt :thumbup:

Hope it all works out for him.
Tallest midget springs to mind...

Healy at least comes out with some sharp analysis between being an annoying twat, Lol can only muster muddling up players names and vapid cliche.

Pains me as a Wasps fan, but I'd be quite happy to never see or hear from him again.
Dinsdale Piranha
Posts: 1010
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:08 pm

Biffer wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 11:01 am
Jim Lahey wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:59 am
SaintK wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:56 am His business acumen and management must be as shite as his rugby commentary and punditry
I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.

God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt :thumbup:

Hope it all works out for him.
Comparing to Healy and Monye isn't exactly a hug bar, is it!?

£700k of unpaid tax must be either a failed scheme, deliberate short payments of hiding of income over an extended period or something similar. Not sure why criminal prosecution isn't involved here.
If you pay the tax you owe, you don't often get prosecuted - maybe just an added fine at most. If you continue to evade tax after being investigated then they throw the book at you (unless you are rich or a corporation obvs) - See Lester Piggott.
User avatar
ASMO
Posts: 5423
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:08 pm

SaintK wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 9:54 am
Jim Lahey wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:59 am
SaintK wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:56 am His business acumen and management must be as shite as his rugby commentary and punditry
I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.

God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt :thumbup:

Hope it all works out for him.
Loved him as a player and indeed he is better than Monye and Healey
I also played 8 though being an elderly fart my favourite 8 was Andy Ripley...........in full stride :thumbup:
Wasn't Ripley a 6?
User avatar
Niegs
Posts: 3390
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:20 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 11:05 am
Jim Lahey wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:59 am
SaintK wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:56 am His business acumen and management must be as shite as his rugby commentary and punditry
I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.

God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt :thumbup:

Hope it all works out for him.
Tallest midget springs to mind...

Healy at least comes out with some sharp analysis between being an annoying twat, Lol can only muster muddling up players names and vapid cliche.

Pains me as a Wasps fan, but I'd be quite happy to never see or hear from him again.
Completely agree with that. Healy can be annoying and biased, but I've genuinely learned things from his analysis at times. It always feels like Lol just describes what we just saw in the most basic of terms.
User avatar
assfly
Posts: 4507
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:30 am

Ah look we've all been there.
User avatar
tabascoboy
Posts: 6474
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:22 am
Location: 曇りの街

ASMO wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 1:02 pm
SaintK wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 9:54 am
Jim Lahey wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:59 am

I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.

God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt :thumbup:

Hope it all works out for him.
Loved him as a player and indeed he is better than Monye and Healey
I also played 8 though being an elderly fart my favourite 8 was Andy Ripley...........in full stride :thumbup:
Wasn't Ripley a 6?
Definitely wore 8 for at least some of his career. SHitty video quality but he's 8 here ( and much as I hate to say it a superb back row move and try )
User avatar
SaintK
Posts: 6620
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:49 am
Location: Over there somewhere

ASMO wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 1:02 pm
SaintK wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 9:54 am
Jim Lahey wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:59 am

I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.

God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt :thumbup:

Hope it all works out for him.
Loved him as a player and indeed he is better than Monye and Healey
I also played 8 though being an elderly fart my favourite 8 was Andy Ripley...........in full stride :thumbup:
Wasn't Ripley a 6?
May well have played there for Rosslyn Park but all his caps for England were at 8. Uttley was 6 usually.
Ripley won 24 caps between 1972 and 1976, scoring two tries, and was selected for the triumphant 1974 Lions tour to South Africa. He did not begin playing rugby until he was 19-years-old and continued until he was 41, spending his whole career at Rosslyn Park.

The hard-running No.8 was a brilliant all-round athlete, competing in the 400m at the UK athletics Championship, and was world veteran indoor rowing champion. He found further fame on the BBC Superstars show that was a perfect showcase for his all-round sporting skills. A chartered accountant, Ripley was a colourful and popular figure who received an OBE in the 2010 Birthday Honours List.
duke
Posts: 584
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:54 am
Location: Smallsbury

SaintK wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 2:06 pm
ASMO wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 1:02 pm
SaintK wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 9:54 am
Loved him as a player and indeed he is better than Monye and Healey
I also played 8 though being an elderly fart my favourite 8 was Andy Ripley...........in full stride :thumbup:
Wasn't Ripley a 6?
May well have played there for Rosslyn Park but all his caps for England were at 8. Uttley was 6 usually.
Ripley won 24 caps between 1972 and 1976, scoring two tries, and was selected for the triumphant 1974 Lions tour to South Africa. He did not begin playing rugby until he was 19-years-old and continued until he was 41, spending his whole career at Rosslyn Park.

The hard-running No.8 was a brilliant all-round athlete, competing in the 400m at the UK athletics Championship, and was world veteran indoor rowing champion. He found further fame on the BBC Superstars show that was a perfect showcase for his all-round sporting skills. A chartered accountant, Ripley was a colourful and popular figure who received an OBE in the 2010 Birthday Honours List.
He was an 8 at Park until the last year or two of his career when he moved into the 2nd row. He was also a spectacularly good 7s player as you might expect from a quality athlete.
User avatar
JM2K6
Posts: 9797
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:43 am

Niegs wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 1:32 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 11:05 am
Jim Lahey wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:59 am

I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.

God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt :thumbup:

Hope it all works out for him.
Tallest midget springs to mind...

Healy at least comes out with some sharp analysis between being an annoying twat, Lol can only muster muddling up players names and vapid cliche.

Pains me as a Wasps fan, but I'd be quite happy to never see or hear from him again.
Completely agree with that. Healy can be annoying and biased, but I've genuinely learned things from his analysis at times. It always feels like Lol just describes what we just saw in the most basic of terms.
And often what he sees is not what happened. Just seems like a guy with half an eye on the game and a decades-old understanding of the players (and laws).
petej
Posts: 2457
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:41 am
Location: Gwent

Niegs wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 1:32 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 11:05 am
Jim Lahey wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:59 am

I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.

God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt :thumbup:

Hope it all works out for him.
Tallest midget springs to mind...

Healy at least comes out with some sharp analysis between being an annoying twat, Lol can only muster muddling up players names and vapid cliche.

Pains me as a Wasps fan, but I'd be quite happy to never see or hear from him again.
Completely agree with that. Healy can be annoying and biased, but I've genuinely learned things from his analysis at times. It always feels like Lol just describes what we just saw in the most basic of terms.
Healey can be an excellent analyst but likes being annoying and controversial.
freddie
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:38 am

Jim Lahey wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:59 am
SaintK wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:56 am His business acumen and management must be as shite as his rugby commentary and punditry
I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.

God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt :thumbup:

Hope it all works out for him.
He's half-Irish so you should get away with it.
Line6 HXFX
Posts: 1148
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:31 am

Whenever England used to absolutely humiliate and anhialate Wales in their pomp. Dillaglio always seemed like a total gentleman and professional about it in interviews. Really humble and respectful.
Always thought "good on him" for that, whilst I was weeping into my Mrs lap.

Funny the things you remember.
Slick
Posts: 11913
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:58 pm

I like neeps wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 9:34 am
When he retired in 2008, Dallaglio told the Financial Times how he had made his 'first million', adding: 'I think one has a responsibility to ensure that the taxman does not get everything.
:lol: how's this going him?

Bit of a George Best. Spent all his money on cocaine, brass and tax avoidance. The rest he just wasted.
This. I think the bloke has some big issues
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
tc27
Posts: 2532
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:18 pm

How the fuck do you end up personally owing HMRC 700k?
User avatar
Kawazaki
Posts: 4799
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:25 am

tc27 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 12:51 pm How the fuck do you end up personally owing HMRC 700k?


Don't pay any tax for 10-20 years.
User avatar
Ymx
Posts: 8557
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:03 pm

tc27 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 12:51 pm How the fuck do you end up personally owing HMRC 700k?
Offshore tax avoidance scheme
IR35

Interest
Fine
User avatar
Tichtheid
Posts: 9400
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:18 am

You'd need to have an income of just over £112K per year over twenty years and pay absolutely no tax in order to accumulate a tax bill of £700K.

Presumably he did pay some tax because HRMC would have been on him well before now, if that is the case then the £700K is a shortfall
tc27
Posts: 2532
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:18 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 1:36 pm You'd need to have an income of just over £112K per year over twenty years and pay absolutely no tax in order to accumulate a tax bill of £700K.

Presumably he did pay some tax because HRMC would have been on him well before now, if that is the case then the £700K is a shortfall
I mean this is it - 700k in unpaid tax he must have being earning millions in total which to be honest surprises me.


I am assuming he set up 'Dayglo INC' as the receptacle for all his punditry fees and then did the usual tricks to try and avoid take (taking loans from the company ETC).
User avatar
Torquemada 1420
Posts: 11155
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:22 am
Location: Hut 8

tc27 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 5:27 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 1:36 pm You'd need to have an income of just over £112K per year over twenty years and pay absolutely no tax in order to accumulate a tax bill of £700K.

Presumably he did pay some tax because HRMC would have been on him well before now, if that is the case then the £700K is a shortfall
I mean this is it - 700k in unpaid tax he must have being earning millions in total which to be honest surprises me.


I am assuming he set up 'Dayglo INC' as the receptacle for all his punditry fees and then did the usual tricks to try and avoid take (taking loans from the company ETC).
Not necessarily. All he had to do is earn something approaching 2m and declare no tax on it. I agree this is less likely than earning many £ millions and hiding, say, 10% of the tax due all along the way.

Anyway, I hope the c**t goes to jail. But he won't. If he was Joe Bloggs owing Council Tax, he'd be facing a custodial.
User avatar
Ymx
Posts: 8557
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:03 pm

tc27 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 5:27 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 1:36 pm You'd need to have an income of just over £112K per year over twenty years and pay absolutely no tax in order to accumulate a tax bill of £700K.

Presumably he did pay some tax because HRMC would have been on him well before now, if that is the case then the £700K is a shortfall
I mean this is it - 700k in unpaid tax he must have being earning millions in total which to be honest surprises me.


I am assuming he set up 'Dayglo INC' as the receptacle for all his punditry fees and then did the usual tricks to try and avoid take (taking loans from the company ETC).
Can someone explain to me how the loans thing works?

Company issues loan to director. Which gets the money to the director avoiding dividend tax.

The director is then responsible to pay back interest (HMRC rate) on it as well as the loan.

Is the loan then written off or something? Otherwise the money ends up back in the company and they still need to pay div tax on it again?
Deveron Boy
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:51 pm

Ymx wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 6:27 am
tc27 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 5:27 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 1:36 pm You'd need to have an income of just over £112K per year over twenty years and pay absolutely no tax in order to accumulate a tax bill of £700K.

Presumably he did pay some tax because HRMC would have been on him well before now, if that is the case then the £700K is a shortfall
I mean this is it - 700k in unpaid tax he must have being earning millions in total which to be honest surprises me.


I am assuming he set up 'Dayglo INC' as the receptacle for all his punditry fees and then did the usual tricks to try and avoid take (taking loans from the company ETC).
Can someone explain to me how the loans thing works?

Company issues loan to director. Which gets the money to the director avoiding dividend tax.

The director is then responsible to pay back interest (HMRC rate) on it as well as the loan.

Is the loan then written off or something? Otherwise the money ends up back in the company and they still need to pay div tax on it again?
The Ltd co is typically domiciled offshore (IOM or Channel Isles) and different law applies in relation to repayment of loans which under these avoidance schemes just continued to grow
inactionman
Posts: 3064
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:37 am

Ymx wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 6:27 am
tc27 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 5:27 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 1:36 pm You'd need to have an income of just over £112K per year over twenty years and pay absolutely no tax in order to accumulate a tax bill of £700K.

Presumably he did pay some tax because HRMC would have been on him well before now, if that is the case then the £700K is a shortfall
I mean this is it - 700k in unpaid tax he must have being earning millions in total which to be honest surprises me.


I am assuming he set up 'Dayglo INC' as the receptacle for all his punditry fees and then did the usual tricks to try and avoid take (taking loans from the company ETC).
Can someone explain to me how the loans thing works?

Company issues loan to director. Which gets the money to the director avoiding dividend tax.

The director is then responsible to pay back interest (HMRC rate) on it as well as the loan.

Is the loan then written off or something? Otherwise the money ends up back in the company and they still need to pay div tax on it again?
In the most egregious of the tax dodging cases, the loan would be written off. A brother of one of my mates contracted in the City and did this (and other dodges) and got busted - had to pony up 70K, which I understand included penalties and interest. I'm wondering if this is why Dayglo's tax bill might be so high?

I've used director's loans from my Limited company to avoid going over a tax threshold in a given tax year, but only for relatively small sums and only for a very limited time. I don't actually pay it back per se. just convert it to dividend and then it becomes a personal tax liability I declare on my self assessment.
Dinsdale Piranha
Posts: 1010
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:08 pm

Deveron Boy wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 7:27 am
Ymx wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 6:27 am
tc27 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 5:27 pm

I mean this is it - 700k in unpaid tax he must have being earning millions in total which to be honest surprises me.


I am assuming he set up 'Dayglo INC' as the receptacle for all his punditry fees and then did the usual tricks to try and avoid take (taking loans from the company ETC).
Can someone explain to me how the loans thing works?

Company issues loan to director. Which gets the money to the director avoiding dividend tax.

The director is then responsible to pay back interest (HMRC rate) on it as well as the loan.

Is the loan then written off or something? Otherwise the money ends up back in the company and they still need to pay div tax on it again?
The Ltd co is typically domiciled offshore (IOM or Channel Isles) and different law applies in relation to repayment of loans which under these avoidance schemes just continued to grow
The common IoM loophole got closed some years ago. I knew a few people using it. One chap said he was paying ~6% tax for several years on his earnings in the city.

When they changed the rules he moved to Australia :lol:
Post Reply