The Official English Rugby Thread

[ASMO]

2 teams playing eye bleedingly boring shit rugby

[Paddington Bear]

Wouldn’t bet against extra time here

[Paddington Bear]

Leicester decide not to take the 3 to make it a one score game and fumble the decision, likely game over

[Paddington Bear]

Congrats Sale, see you at HQ. Not taking easy points is becoming a virus in English rugby, just because it worked alright for Exeter for a bit. Still, Sale better across the pitch and worthy winners. Ford/Faz looking pretty nailed on for the world cup

[Tichtheid]

Ford pom is deserved.

I think I read Matt Scott was finishing after this season, any Tigers fans know otherwise?

[Brazil]

Fuck me ragged

[Kawazaki]

Without wishing to invoke the rage and retaliation of the mockers Gods, I don't think Saracens have got too much to worry about in the final.

p.s Tuilagi is really shite now.

[Madness]

Does look a bit like both Sale and Leicester play a lot from the Sarries playbook from a couple of years ago, current Sarries can do that and look much more dangerous in attack

[westport]

Excuse me popping in saw this about LI and plans being readied

[sockwithaticket]

Well the Glaws CEO is the latest one to have spouting off about the benefits of a 10 team Prem. I suspect the LI situation might be handled by the various powers that be with that goal in mind, unfortunately.

[Glaston]

Well the Glaws CEO is the latest one to have spouting off about the benefits of a 10 team Prem. I suspect the LI situation might be handled by the various powers that be with that goal in mind, unfortunately.

Wonder how much cash Newcastle have?

2024 season down to 9 clubs

[Margin__Walker]

On the one hand it's all very sensible, not wanting a club to fail late in pre season or after a couple of games like last season. Getting ahead of it in May makes sense.

Situation is a little different to the other two clubs though with them not being under any pressure that I'm aware of with external debt or the HMRC. The big question is whether Crossan would walk away if the takeover didn't go through. And indeed what proof of funds they are expecting to see from Crossan if he is to continue. Are they wanting to see 12 months worth of running costs in a bank account, or just a commitment from him to continue covering costs?

It may be that Crossan is about to call it a day and the club is fucked, but I can't escape the feeling that it would be a very convenient outcome for the other clubs and the RFU. Assuming the takeover is in any way serious, I also think this probably gives the buyers a nice opportunity to lowball the offer at the last moment.

[Paddington Bear]

Yes strikes me the buyers are stringing this out to test just how desperate Crossan is to get out with the intention of low balling as much as they can. Bit of a game of chicken with PRL/RFU a likely deeply unhelpful third party

[sockwithaticket]

Well the Glaws CEO is the latest one to have spouting off about the benefits of a 10 team Prem. I suspect the LI situation might be handled by the various powers that be with that goal in mind, unfortunately.

Wonder how much cash Newcastle have?

2024 season down to 9 clubs

It's certainly not a healthy picture for them. They already spend less than anyone else apparently and yet they still let a couple of their best players go during the season and their head coach.

[Margin__Walker]

Yes strikes me the buyers are stringing this out to test just how desperate Crossan is to get out with the intention of low balling as much as they can. Bit of a game of chicken with PRL/RFU a likely deeply unhelpful third party

Yep, If the buyout is serious (big if), they hold all the cards now with the deadline terms set and fast approaching. Crossan's likely going to get fucked however this ends up going.

[Paddington Bear]

Yes strikes me the buyers are stringing this out to test just how desperate Crossan is to get out with the intention of low balling as much as they can. Bit of a game of chicken with PRL/RFU a likely deeply unhelpful third party

Yep, If the buyout is serious (big if), they hold all the cards now with the deadline terms set and fast approaching. Crossan's likely going to get fucked however this ends up going.

I feel like a smarmy git sat here criticising and second guessing a man who has set up a really successful business from scratch, among other things, but being so public and vocal with how desperate to sell he was seemed always likely to end with the sharks circling round him as they are.

[Margin__Walker]

Yes strikes me the buyers are stringing this out to test just how desperate Crossan is to get out with the intention of low balling as much as they can. Bit of a game of chicken with PRL/RFU a likely deeply unhelpful third party

Yep, If the buyout is serious (big if), they hold all the cards now with the deadline terms set and fast approaching. Crossan's likely going to get fucked however this ends up going.

I feel like a smarmy git sat here criticising and second guessing a man who has set up a really successful business from scratch, among other things, but being so public and vocal with how desperate to sell he was seemed always likely to end with the sharks circling round him as they are.

Yeah, possibly. As relaxed as he tried to make it, it was clearly an indication of discomfort. Ultimately his problem is that he's a fan and has an emotional connection that's caused him to stick with the project well past where he probably would with any other business.

[Kawazaki]

Yes strikes me the buyers are stringing this out to test just how desperate Crossan is to get out with the intention of low balling as much as they can. Bit of a game of chicken with PRL/RFU a likely deeply unhelpful third party

He's offered to sell the club for £1.

Do you think the buyers are holding out for 80p?

[Kawazaki]

The problem with LI is what exactly is for sale, what does he own? He owns a rugby brand, a small percentage of the 74% of the Premiership and the contractual use of about 50 professional rugby players with zero transfer value.

They've got less than Worcester and Wasps had to sell and they've already approached everyone to find a buyer. The only USP LI have is the word 'Irish' in their name but the IRFU aren't interested either.

It does seem that reducing to 10 clubs is a done deal but I don't see how that improves things, it's just a slightly larger percentage of a smaller pie.

[Jim Lahey]

The problem with LI is what exactly is for sale, what does he own? He owns a rugby brand, a small percentage of the 74% of the Premiership and the contractual use of about 50 professional rugby players with zero transfer value.

They've got less than Worcester and Wasps had to sell and they've already approached everyone to find a buyer. The only USP LI have is the word 'Irish' in their name but the IRFU aren't interested either.

It does seem that reducing to 10 clubs is a done deal but I don't see how that improves things, it's just a slightly larger percentage of a smaller pie.

There must be a few lads on very decent wages in that squad, like Jackson, Creevy, Coleman.

Doesn't sound good. Hope it all works out somehow.

[Margin__Walker]

The problem with LI is what exactly is for sale, what does he own? He owns a rugby brand, a small percentage of the 74% of the Premiership and the contractual use of about 50 professional rugby players with zero transfer value.

They've got less than Worcester and Wasps had to sell and they've already approached everyone to find a buyer. The only USP LI have is the word 'Irish' in their name but the IRFU aren't interested either.

It does seem that reducing to 10 clubs is a done deal but I don't see how that improves things, it's just a slightly larger percentage of a smaller pie.

If you're actually interested in owning and running an elite rugby club (rather than purely asset stripping), I'd argue LI has more going for it than those two. Based in the capital. As prem rugby clubs go, not saddled with the same amount of external debt as the other two. As I understand it, the vast majority of the '£30m in debt' is to Crossan followed by the DCMS. The oft quoted line about giving the club away for a quid, presumably was a little more nuanced than that. Sure he'd sell for a quid, but there would be a conversation about how much of his debt he'd write off as part of that. You'd think he's probably at a point now where he'd be forgetting about most of it trying to get out, so that £30m debt figure isn't really as scary. Not compared to Wasps and Worcester anyway.

The club does also own the modern 63 acre Hazelwood training complex in Sunbury. Lots of pitches, conferencing facilities, gets hired out to visiting NFL teams each year etc.

But even so, it's a very tough sell given the commercial environment. Just not a completely hopeless one. In the absence of a super rich fan stepping in, you're relying on an organisation judging the league as having potential for growth and seeing an opportunity to buy at the bottom of the market.

[JM2K6]

Well the Glaws CEO is the latest one to have spouting off about the benefits of a 10 team Prem. I suspect the LI situation might be handled by the various powers that be with that goal in mind, unfortunately.

Strong Richmond vibes

[Kawazaki]

The club does also own the modern 63 acre Hazelwood training complex in Sunbury. Lots of pitches, conferencing facilities, gets hired out to visiting NFL teams each year etc.

63 acres of land inside the M25 must be worth a lot more than £30m? A hell of a lot more.

[Margin__Walker]

The club does also own the modern 63 acre Hazelwood training complex in Sunbury. Lots of pitches, conferencing facilities, gets hired out to visiting NFL teams each year etc.

63 acres of land inside the M25 must be worth a lot more than £30m? A hell of a lot more.

Yeah, worth a few quid and believe the DCMS loan is secured against it. Also think it's greenfield, so was hard enough to get planning for leisure for it. Not the sort of thing you could acquire and stick houses on which limits the value. Straying outside my area of expertise though

[Paddington Bear]

Yes strikes me the buyers are stringing this out to test just how desperate Crossan is to get out with the intention of low balling as much as they can. Bit of a game of chicken with PRL/RFU a likely deeply unhelpful third party

He's offered to sell the club for £1.

Do you think the buyers are holding out for 80p?

£1 plus clearing his debts, so £30m+1. They're trying to see how much of that he'll write off IMHO.

[dpedin]

Wasps gone - have to start in the bottom tier next season!

[sockwithaticket]

Fuck's sake. I was starting to fear the worst anyway with no players, staff or ground, but you always have hope until it's dashed.

Guess I'd best take good care of the shirts I have, probably looking at 15 years - never for new ones.

[SaintK]

Wasps gone - have to start in the bottom tier next season!

So much for entering the Championship
Wasps Amateurs play at level 8 in Herts/Middx already

[Kawazaki]

The Sixways Worcester Stadium is doomed isn't it. What a waste.

[Glaston]

Fuck's sake. I was starting to fear the worst anyway with no players, staff or ground, but you always have hope until it's dashed.

Guess I'd best take good care of the shirts I have, probably looking at 15 years - never for new ones.

They did have a few things pencilled in .
Had a kit deal and some sponsorship lined up. ( Allegedly)


Supposedly some players and staff lined up but all dependant on getting into the Championship.

There is a Statement from Peter Scrivener on one of the Wasps boards.

[sockwithaticket]

Fuck's sake. I was starting to fear the worst anyway with no players, staff or ground, but you always have hope until it's dashed.

Guess I'd best take good care of the shirts I have, probably looking at 15 years - never for new ones.

They did have a few things pencilled in .
Had a kit deal and some sponsorship lined up. ( Allegedly)


Supposedly some players and staff lined up but all dependant on getting into the Championship.

There is a Statement from Peter Scrivener on one of the Wasps boards.

Yeah just found this on Drunken Wasps

Our exit from the Rugby Football Union

It has been an all-consuming 7 months since the 17th of October 2022. Our first task was to save and secure the brand, the IP, and the legend ? and in that we have been successful. Since then, we have been constantly involved in the resurrection of the club with the intention of competing in the 2023 RFU Championship.

Operating in a void between regulatory authorities that were managed by strict governance requirements, and a championship that had not been engaged in our membership and who, perhaps understandably, offered some resentment to our inclusion, has been challenging.

Our recovery to date has been managed by a very small team who have been dealing with the operational and financial issues and requirements of the RFU and PRL since our engagement in November 2022 when we were successful in the approval process to enter the RFU Championship in September 2023. That approval was subject to initial and then continuing requirements around financing, ground, rugby creditors and the demanding governance provisions. During our approval process, and since, we have continually reminded the RFU that we would not repeat the mistakes of the past by allowing a single point of failure, and that we would not commit to any employment or contract unless we were sure that
we would be able to fund the expenditure for the season.

We have embarked on a wide ranging, and professional search, for suitable funding. From the outset we had interest from various sources who engaged in their own due
diligence, some in depth to the extent that they had direct contact with the governing bodies. Whilst the investment interest continues, we regret to say that the current state of rugby finances, the lack of clarity on the league structure and concerns over promotion has caused the investor group to remain silent and fatigued.

On two occasions we asked the RFU for an extension of time to secure funding and to satisfy the rugby creditors. Our requests were refused on both occasions. Whilst we understand the need for regulatory conformity and the administration of the league, the only reason we needed that extension was for the RFU to establish a clear vision and direction of travel so that our investor pool were able to see equitable funding for the Championship and a clear pathway to promotion.

Indeed, the recent revelations around the possible ring fencing of the premiership for 3 to 5 years to protect it has further weakened our investment position. There is the suggestion that a route for promotion could exist with a play-off between the bottom of the premiership playing the winner of the Championship. Given there is a deficit of ?4m+ in funding between the Premiership and the Championship, then the only route of promotion includes the very problem of excessive funding that perpetuates the business system failure.

We had made progress in certain areas though. We have a kit deal, significant sponsorship from a global brand, and a choice of grounds to play at. We have 232 players and 37 coaches available to select a team from. We have also identified strong local authority support for our own stadium, and whilst some have criticised us for even considering a new stadium option, their rush to judgement ignores the stark reality that rugby at the higher levels needs supplementary income to survive without owner funding - which is the single point of failure we are determined to avoid. Rugby alone will not provide a sustainable business, until it is properly governed and financially supported.

The arrangements and direction regarding the rugby creditors has also been troublesome. We were handed the responsibility of others to identify, validate, audit, and settle the rugby creditor claims inherited from the previous administration. We established a system to manage this process and acknowledged our moral obligations to complete it.

Following our regrettable exit from the Championship, our understanding is that the rugby creditors will now revert back to the administrators for the claims to be pursued against Wasps Holdings Limited (In Administration). We will work with the administrators on this.

So, what will happen now?

The journey continues with utter determination and commitment to ensure that WASPS continues its 156-year history in a sustainable rugby environment that shares the vision
and values that the new club aspires to. We are extremely grateful for the loyal support and concern from our global fan base.

Our silence has been deliberate and necessary. Firstly, we had nothing definitive to say that couldn?t have changed the following day, and often did, and secondly, we only recovered our social media accounts and rebuilt a new web site in the first week of May. You will hear more from us soon.

[Niegs]

Why don't those people just put their efforts into Wasps FC?

[Paddington Bear]

I was at Wasps FC a few weeks ago for the Middlesex merit table cup finals, the facilities there won’t get you into the Championship, was a little surprised.
But it does seem like the better option, though if you ran a stable amateur club I’m not sure you’d be desperate for investors to jump in

[Brazil]

Played at Wasps FC a few times. Great set up and a really good bunch. I'd be surprised if they wanted the disruption and likely disaster of being taken over by a consortium with its eye on the bright lights though. Like PB says it'd involve a move out of Acton as the facilities aren't anywhere near championship standard.

It'll be interesting to see whether the consortium continues to push Wasps from the bottom leagues.

[Margin__Walker]

It would be such a long term project for anyone, but the most committed investor to take on. Anyone seriously looking to invest who wasn't a die hard Wasp fan would surely look at a more mature setup from much higher up the league structure (Champ to ND2).

LI would have a similar issue if they go under, with a nice amateur setup already in place who wouldn't want the hassle. Only difference would be fewer in the way of 'rugby' creditors, which could potentially make post administration survival higher up the league structure more viable. But even that would be a long shot in the current environment.

[Paddington Bear]

It would be such a long term project for anyone, but the most committed investor to take on. Anyone seriously looking to invest who wasn't a die hard Wasp fan would surely look at a more mature setup from much higher up the league structure (Champ to ND2).

LI would have a similar issue if they go under, with a nice amateur setup already in place who wouldn't want the hassle. Only difference would be fewer in the way of 'rugby' creditors, which could potentially make post administration survival higher up the league structure more viable. But even that would be a long shot in the current environment.

The Wild Geese being in the Championship with gates of a couple of thousand within a few years of what increasingly looks inevitable seems a plausible enough scenario

[Margin__Walker]

It would be such a long term project for anyone, but the most committed investor to take on. Anyone seriously looking to invest who wasn't a die hard Wasp fan would surely look at a more mature setup from much higher up the league structure (Champ to ND2).

LI would have a similar issue if they go under, with a nice amateur setup already in place who wouldn't want the hassle. Only difference would be fewer in the way of 'rugby' creditors, which could potentially make post administration survival higher up the league structure more viable. But even that would be a long shot in the current environment.

The Wild Geese being in the Championship with gates of a couple of thousand within a few years of what increasingly looks inevitable seems a plausible enough scenario

I'd actually be a bit nervous about the blow back of the pro entity going under on the amateur setup. I'm no expert, but whilst they will obviously be sheltered from it, I'm not sure if Hazelwood, where they play will be. There's a fairly complicated ownership structure at the club with several entities including one that owns the actual facility. I'm just not sure what the charge from the DCMS covid loan covers.

I'm a long way outside my area of expertise tbf.

[Hal Jordan]

So with all the financial collapses and whatnot, I assume this season's title will have a big old asterisk by it?

[Brazil]

So with all the financial collapses and whatnot, I assume this season's title will have a big old asterisk by it?

Only if Sarries win it.

Just like their other ones.

[Kawazaki]

So with all the financial collapses and whatnot, I assume this season's title will have a big old asterisk by it?

Only if Sarries win it.

Just like their other ones.

So salty. And from a SarriesLite fan as well.

The irony.