Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Slick]

This is fun

[Tichtheid]

So the disgraced blonde cunt starts a new job as a columnist on the Daily Mail this Saturday
A perfect match!!!

I bet they get a bump in their circulation numbers and hits on their site.

Everyone loves the pantomime, they don't seem to care that he's a despicable, self-serving, conniving, ultra-selfish man-child, who is completely lacking in honour or morality.

[Tichtheid]

Johnson is the Mails new star columnist. Probably as influential a position in the conservative party as any as their membership base are all mail reading reactionaries. He's far from gone from public life.

You'd think that any time he comes up for a voted public office again all his opponent would have to do is say, "He lied to parliament, he lied to you, he lied to the Queen, he lied to various wives, he lied to his boss at the Telegraph and got sacked for it, he's lying to you now" and that would be the end of it, but it's not.

All politicians lie though, they all change their mind on a whiff of negative focus group attention. As others have said Johnson is a symptom and not a cause of this.

The problem is, I think, when the unions were destroyed rightly or wrongly it means now people are so far removed from politics. Democracy requires participation but nobody really participates anymore, nobody is politically active. Local government has been cut to the core, public services have been sold off, national governments are full of lying sociopaths and have been for some time, the BBC and journalism both national and local is just awful. We've become consumers and not citizens. We need stronger unions for rental tenants, for employment, maybe groups for families etc.

I think the "all politicians are liars" is only partially true and lets the extremely bad ones like Johnson off the hook - There is compromise, changing policy when it is either unpopular or unworkable, telling people what they want to hear etc and there is standing up in parliament and saying you didn't do something when you did, or telling your boss you didn't do something when you did, or breaking the law with regards to parliament to get your own way.

I agree about participation in politics, I thought for a while that younger people were going to be moved into action on green and climate issues, but there hasn't been the groundswell I anticipated, not yet anyway.

[Line6 HXFX]

You English fuckers know you have dragged Wales NI and Scotland into this shit show though right?
It's not just people you hate in Liverpool, Manchester, Cornwall, asylum seekers..
Misery loves company be fucked..

My Mrs didn't have proper PPE for 3 months, when she was treating covid patients, because the tories decided they wanted a taxcut, and so destroyed all infectious disease preparedness measures, and gave contracts to people who have never provided PPE before, instead of companies that did, because they were mates with Boris.
This was before there was a vaccination and I honestly thought she would die any day.
Many nurses did.

Honest to fuck, England, get a grip on these sociopaths. Please.

She/ You, we, they.. don't deserve these wankers.

[ASMO]

You English fuckers know you have dragged Wales NI and Scotland into this shit show though right?
It's not just people you hate in Liverpool, Manchester, Cornwall, asylum seekers..
Misery loves company be fucked..

My Mrs didn't have proper PPE for 3 months, when she was treating covid patients, because the tories decided they wanted a taxcut, and so destroyed all infectious disease preparedness measures, and gave contracts to people who have never provided PPE before, instead of companies that did, because they were mates with Boris.
This was before there was a vaccination and I honestly thought she would die any day.
Many nurses did.

Honest to fuck, get a grip on these sociopaths. Please.
She/ You we.. don't deserve these wankers.

So this is the fault of all the English right? not just a few highly privelidged ones....idiot, do you actually read some of the shit you post?

[fishfoodie]

Just saying.."the UK will be better off outside of Europe", translated the Welsh..is this f'king racket..

bydd y DU yn well y tu allan i Ewrop.

Who the fuck is going to go for that?
Try saying that with a posh farargian accent?

And yet the Welsh voted for Brexit !

[dpedin]

You'd think that any time he comes up for a voted public office again all his opponent would have to do is say, "He lied to parliament, he lied to you, he lied to the Queen, he lied to various wives, he lied to his boss at the Telegraph and got sacked for it, he's lying to you now" and that would be the end of it, but it's not.

All politicians lie though, they all change their mind on a whiff of negative focus group attention. As others have said Johnson is a symptom and not a cause of this.

The problem is, I think, when the unions were destroyed rightly or wrongly it means now people are so far removed from politics. Democracy requires participation but nobody really participates anymore, nobody is politically active. Local government has been cut to the core, public services have been sold off, national governments are full of lying sociopaths and have been for some time, the BBC and journalism both national and local is just awful. We've become consumers and not citizens. We need stronger unions for rental tenants, for employment, maybe groups for families etc.

I think the "all politicians are liars" is only partially true and lets the extremely bad ones like Johnson off the hook - There is compromise, changing policy when it is either unpopular or unworkable, telling people what they want to hear etc and there is standing up in parliament and saying you didn't do something when you did, or telling your boss you didn't do something when you did, or breaking the law with regards to parliament to get your own way.

I agree about participation in politics, I thought for a while that younger people were going to be moved into action on green and climate issues, but there hasn't been the groundswell I anticipated, not yet anyway.

This is exactly what the lying Tory twats want us to think ... of course we lie but we/politicians all lie so vote for us because we do it better. There are many honest politicians, unfortunately the Tories got rid of many of them during the Blonde Bumblecunts purge when he came into power, but they dont make the headlines like the lying twats do. Whilst many dont like Starmer he had a pretty good record of working as an honest Civil Servant successfully leading the Crown Prosecution Service and was knighted for his efforts. To compare him for example to JRM who inherited his wealth from dodgy extreme right wing Papa, who got a leg up from disgraced and sexual predator Odey, then took all his cash off shore to avoid UK taxes and then lie through his teeth about his Eton and Oxford chum is just a false equivalence.

[GogLais]

Just saying.."the UK will be better off outside of Europe", translated the Welsh..is this f'king racket..

bydd y DU yn well y tu allan i Ewrop.

Who the fuck is going to go for that?
Try saying that with a posh farargian accent?

And yet the Welsh voted for Brexit !

Ah but which Welsh? We are three roughly equal tribes - Welsh speakers born in Wales, non-Welsh speakers born in Wales and the immigrants. The Remain areas coincided almost exactly with the Welsh speaking areas.

[Line6 HXFX]

My points really is poshboy sophisti'cunt English is a weapon, many of the dumb electorate (ok people who work 12 hour shifts and have zero time for politics) are influenced by recieved pronunciation.
Funnily, it all died a death and was so embaressing they all went mockney, before the Hugh Grant revival of RP in 1991..
That way of speaking denotes a hell of a lot of power, composure and gravitas onto the people who contrive to use it. There is litterally nothing natural about it, it takes lots of effort and most people, having been forced to learn it, dump it as soon as they can...unless you are a tory and want to specifically use the fallacy of language and many others (and pig latin) as a veneer to cover your bollocks self serving policies.

This is always going to happen.

Dweebs will always be convincing, talking this way.


Basically the country is fucked unless we all speak Welsh.

[dpedin]

My points really is poshboy sophisti'cunt English is a weopen, many of the dumb electorate (ok people who work 12 hour shifts and have zero time for politics) are influenced by recieved pronunciation.
Funnily, it all died a death and was so embaressing they all went mockney, before the Hugh Grant revival of RP in 1991..
That way of speaking denotes a hell of a lot of power, composure and gravitas onto the people who contrive to use it. There is litterally nothing natural about it, it takes lots of effort and most people, having been forced to learn it, dump it as soon as they can...unless you are a tory and want to specifically use the fallacy of language and many others (and pig latin) as a veneer to cover your bollocks self serving policies.

This is always going to happen.

Dweebs will always be convincing, talking this way.


Basically the country is fucked.

I agree partially! There seems to be a 'doff the cap' to the country squire attitude predominately in south of England that means the likes of JRM are seen to be better than us - talk posh, have loads of old money, went to private school and Oxford/Cambridge and dress proper - and must therefore be better at running the country. It is aligned with a lack of confidence in the people themselves being capable of running the country instead. It seems a very English attitude? Here in Scotland and I think the same is true in NI, Northern England and bits off Wales the posh boys are treated with suspicion and mistrust and there is a stronger feeling that we the people can do just as well if not better. There are probably good historical reasons for this ie clearances, predominance of unions, etc but it also explains why the likes of the Blonde bumbelcunt and the Eton Head Boy, and Thatcher, are despised here and rarely come north of the border and when they do they hide behind lines of police and security and never meet the public. Scotland did have its own version of the posh boys, such as the likes of Malcom Rifkind but he succeeded more on ability and humility than posh accent and position.

[Tichtheid]

You English fuckers know you have dragged Wales NI and Scotland into this shit show though right?
It's not just people you hate in Liverpool, Manchester, Cornwall, asylum seekers..
Misery loves company be fucked..

My Mrs didn't have proper PPE for 3 months, when she was treating covid patients, because the tories decided they wanted a taxcut, and so destroyed all infectious disease preparedness measures, and gave contracts to people who have never provided PPE before, instead of companies that did, because they were mates with Boris.
This was before there was a vaccination and I honestly thought she would die any day.
Many nurses did.

Honest to fuck, get a grip on these sociopaths. Please.
She/ You we.. don't deserve these wankers.

So this is the fault of all the English right? not just a few highly privelidged ones....idiot, do you actually read some of the shit you post?

England has a long history of resistance, some six hundred and fifty years from The Peasant's Revolt through the Levellers and Diggers and the Incosure Acts, Tolpuddle, the start of the Union movement, the Quakers influence on reform which eventually led to the setting up of the NHS and Welfare State (I'm being necessarily brief).

There's a quote, "We (Scots, Irish and Welsh) sometimes forget that the first colony of the British Empire was England itself."

I've got far more in common with farm labourers in Sussex, Lancashire or Cumbria than I do with many of the people who live in the Grange area of Edinburgh.

Having said that, it's very frustrating that the electorate in England fall for twats like Johnson

[Slick]

You'd think that any time he comes up for a voted public office again all his opponent would have to do is say, "He lied to parliament, he lied to you, he lied to the Queen, he lied to various wives, he lied to his boss at the Telegraph and got sacked for it, he's lying to you now" and that would be the end of it, but it's not.

All politicians lie though, they all change their mind on a whiff of negative focus group attention. As others have said Johnson is a symptom and not a cause of this.

The problem is, I think, when the unions were destroyed rightly or wrongly it means now people are so far removed from politics. Democracy requires participation but nobody really participates anymore, nobody is politically active. Local government has been cut to the core, public services have been sold off, national governments are full of lying sociopaths and have been for some time, the BBC and journalism both national and local is just awful. We've become consumers and not citizens. We need stronger unions for rental tenants, for employment, maybe groups for families etc.

I think the "all politicians are liars" is only partially true and lets the extremely bad ones like Johnson off the hook - There is compromise, changing policy when it is either unpopular or unworkable, telling people what they want to hear etc and there is standing up in parliament and saying you didn't do something when you did, or telling your boss you didn't do something when you did, or breaking the law with regards to parliament to get your own way.

I agree about participation in politics, I thought for a while that younger people were going to be moved into action on green and climate issues, but there hasn't been the groundswell I anticipated, not yet anyway.

Agree with all of this, there are a lot of good, hardworking MP's. The problem is that it is only the ones that are happy to shape shift, lie and stand up for the indefensible that get anywhere, if that's their ambition.

Also agree re green and climate issues, really thought the yoof would drive this on, but it's just not happening.

[Sandstorm]

My points really is poshboy sophisti'cunt English is a weopen, many of the dumb electorate (ok people who work 12 hour shifts and have zero time for politics) are influenced by recieved pronunciation.
Funnily, it all died a death and was so embaressing they all went mockney, before the Hugh Grant revival of RP in 1991..
That way of speaking denotes a hell of a lot of power, composure and gravitas onto the people who contrive to use it. There is litterally nothing natural about it, it takes lots of effort and most people, having been forced to learn it, dump it as soon as they can...unless you are a tory and want to specifically use the fallacy of language and many others (and pig latin) as a veneer to cover your bollocks self serving policies.

This is always going to happen.

Dweebs will always be convincing, talking this way.


Basically the country is fucked.

I agree partially! There seems to be a 'doff the cap' to the country squire attitude predominately in south of England that means the likes of JRM are seen to be better than us - talk posh, have loads of old money, went to private school and Oxford/Cambridge and dress proper - and must therefore be better at running the country. It is aligned with a lack of confidence in the people themselves being capable of running the country instead. It seems a very English attitude? Here in Scotland and I think the same is true in NI, Northern England and bits off Wales the posh boys are treated with suspicion and mistrust and there is a stronger feeling that we the people can do just as well if not better. There are probably good historical reasons for this ie clearances, predominance of unions, etc but it also explains why the likes of the Blonde bumbelcunt and the Eton Head Boy, and Thatcher, are despised here and rarely come north of the border and when they do they hide behind lines of police and security and never meet the public. Scotland did have its own version of the posh boys, such as the likes of Malcom Rifkind but he succeeded more on ability and humility than posh accent and position.

Nadine Dorries should be PM.

[Sandstorm]

only the ones that are happy to shape shift, lie and stand up for the indefensible that get anywhere, if that's their ambition.

I think you have to blame the voting public for these cnuts still being MPs.

[Jim Lahey]

Nice touch from Boris bringing the news reporters out a cup of tea after his morning jog.

4 more years I'd say.

[Slick]

only the ones that are happy to shape shift, lie and stand up for the indefensible that get anywhere, if that's their ambition.

I think you have to blame the voting public for these cnuts still being MPs.

Is also true

[Biffer]

You English fuckers know you have dragged Wales NI and Scotland into this shit show though right?
It's not just people you hate in Liverpool, Manchester, Cornwall, asylum seekers..
Misery loves company be fucked..

My Mrs didn't have proper PPE for 3 months, when she was treating covid patients, because the tories decided they wanted a taxcut, and so destroyed all infectious disease preparedness measures, and gave contracts to people who have never provided PPE before, instead of companies that did, because they were mates with Boris.
This was before there was a vaccination and I honestly thought she would die any day.
Many nurses did.

Honest to fuck, get a grip on these sociopaths. Please.
She/ You we.. don't deserve these wankers.

So this is the fault of all the English right? not just a few highly privelidged ones....idiot, do you actually read some of the shit you post?

Every Region in England has put a majority of Tory MPs into parliament at some point this century. So has Wales.

[Biffer]

All politicians lie though, they all change their mind on a whiff of negative focus group attention. As others have said Johnson is a symptom and not a cause of this.

The problem is, I think, when the unions were destroyed rightly or wrongly it means now people are so far removed from politics. Democracy requires participation but nobody really participates anymore, nobody is politically active. Local government has been cut to the core, public services have been sold off, national governments are full of lying sociopaths and have been for some time, the BBC and journalism both national and local is just awful. We've become consumers and not citizens. We need stronger unions for rental tenants, for employment, maybe groups for families etc.

I think the "all politicians are liars" is only partially true and lets the extremely bad ones like Johnson off the hook - There is compromise, changing policy when it is either unpopular or unworkable, telling people what they want to hear etc and there is standing up in parliament and saying you didn't do something when you did, or telling your boss you didn't do something when you did, or breaking the law with regards to parliament to get your own way.

I agree about participation in politics, I thought for a while that younger people were going to be moved into action on green and climate issues, but there hasn't been the groundswell I anticipated, not yet anyway.

This is exactly what the lying Tory twats want us to think ... of course we lie but we/politicians all lie so vote for us because we do it better. There are many honest politicians, unfortunately the Tories got rid of many of them during the Blonde Bumblecunts purge when he came into power, but they dont make the headlines like the lying twats do. Whilst many dont like Starmer he had a pretty good record of working as an honest Civil Servant successfully leading the Crown Prosecution Service and was knighted for his efforts. To compare him for example to JRM who inherited his wealth from dodgy extreme right wing Papa, who got a leg up from disgraced and sexual predator Odey, then took all his cash off shore to avoid UK taxes and then lie through his teeth about his Eton and Oxford chum is just a false equivalence.

People have had a small taste of what happens with working class people engaging in politics with Mick Lynch being on the news and savaging both interviewers and Conservative MPs / journalists. We used to get a lot of that back when the unions were stronger. Proper working class engagement and understanding of society's problems.

[Line6 HXFX]

So learn a few logical fallacies, and we will be back in the EU and in possession of a functioning government and functioning public finances, and services before you can say " piss off cariad mewn gwirionedd".


("Piss off love actually")

I mean the English could ditch westminster and just allow the Welsh Parliament to run their moronic, ungovernable, unthinking asses, as our politicians seem to be making a decent fist of things here.

Well it's an idea.


What could be "more soverign" than letting the original Britons run the place, whilst you mad bastards come to your senses?

Fun fact, as parliament to and for " the original Britons".. the Welsh parliament is actually the most Soverigneee place in the U.K.

Suck it England.

[tabascoboy]

Going to guess here that abstaining is going to be seen as less damaging to their careers than voting against, and BB doesn't want to be embarrassed by seeing how few stand up for him...




Meanwhile

[I like neeps]

All politicians lie though, they all change their mind on a whiff of negative focus group attention. As others have said Johnson is a symptom and not a cause of this.

The problem is, I think, when the unions were destroyed rightly or wrongly it means now people are so far removed from politics. Democracy requires participation but nobody really participates anymore, nobody is politically active. Local government has been cut to the core, public services have been sold off, national governments are full of lying sociopaths and have been for some time, the BBC and journalism both national and local is just awful. We've become consumers and not citizens. We need stronger unions for rental tenants, for employment, maybe groups for families etc.

I think the "all politicians are liars" is only partially true and lets the extremely bad ones like Johnson off the hook - There is compromise, changing policy when it is either unpopular or unworkable, telling people what they want to hear etc and there is standing up in parliament and saying you didn't do something when you did, or telling your boss you didn't do something when you did, or breaking the law with regards to parliament to get your own way.

I agree about participation in politics, I thought for a while that younger people were going to be moved into action on green and climate issues, but there hasn't been the groundswell I anticipated, not yet anyway.

This is exactly what the lying Tory twats want us to think ... of course we lie but we/politicians all lie so vote for us because we do it better. There are many honest politicians, unfortunately the Tories got rid of many of them during the Blonde Bumblecunts purge when he came into power, but they dont make the headlines like the lying twats do. Whilst many dont like Starmer he had a pretty good record of working as an honest Civil Servant successfully leading the Crown Prosecution Service and was knighted for his efforts. To compare him for example to JRM who inherited his wealth from dodgy extreme right wing Papa, who got a leg up from disgraced and sexual predator Odey, then took all his cash off shore to avoid UK taxes and then lie through his teeth about his Eton and Oxford chum is just a false equivalence.

Boris Johnson didn't invent lying and dishonest Tory MPs weren't forced out by a rogue liar.

Starmer is also a liar, see his pitch to be labour leader and subsequent behaviour/policies. Yes, he's more trustworthy than Johnson. But he's not a beacon of honesty. He's ruthless and power hungry and will say and do what is best at the time to achieve his goal of power. Fair play to him for it, as said all politicians are liars, that does include him.

[SaintK]

I reckon Starmer has more personal integrity in his little finger than the the disgraced former PM has ever had!!
Meanwhile the blonde slug is ending his political career as he did most of it, in breach of the rules!

Boris Johnson has committed a "clear breach" of the ministerial code by not clearing his new role writing a column for the Daily Mail first.
The committee that vets ex-ministers' appointments says he informed them only half an hour before the news emerged.

Pity the poor junior subbie that has to chase him up and turn his verbose blatherings into something printable each week.

[JM2K6]

Any definition that seeks to equate Starmer and Boris and put them same bucket for dishonesty is batshit insane. Starmer is not fundamentally dishonest. And yes, some of those campaign promises have been broken - with reasons given. That is a world away from just peddling untruths, let alone doing so on the scale that Johnson did on a near-daily basis.

[I like neeps]

Any definition that seeks to equate Starmer and Boris and put them same bucket for dishonesty is batshit insane. Starmer is not fundamentally dishonest. And yes, some of those campaign promises have been broken - with reasons given. That is a world away from just peddling untruths, let alone doing so on the scale that Johnson did on a near-daily basis.

I suggest you maybe read the bit where I said he does not lie as often as Johnson does then?

But liars like Boris Johnson are enabled by two things: (a) the right wing media running public discourse and pretty much never being honest either and (b) politicians - yes, like Starmer - saying they are one thing or having one belief and then changing it when the next focus group is unsure on it. The job of Keir Starmer was to win the labour leadership election and then it was to win public votes. He's decided the best way to do that was not a commitment to values he said he had when pitching for the labour leadership. That's politics, the reality is politicians lie to benefit their career and they think in doing so benefits the country. I don't agree.

Also it's not even a particular dislike of Starmer: see parties like the Greens protesting against wind farm installation in constituencies as well. Nick Clegg! Need I say more. Honest politicians whose values inform policy and they stick to that is harder to find than lying opportunitists such as Johnson.

[JM2K6]

Any definition that seeks to equate Starmer and Boris and put them same bucket for dishonesty is batshit insane. Starmer is not fundamentally dishonest. And yes, some of those campaign promises have been broken - with reasons given. That is a world away from just peddling untruths, let alone doing so on the scale that Johnson did on a near-daily basis.

I suggest you maybe read the bit where I said he does not lie as often as Johnson does then?

But liars like Boris Johnson are enabled by two things: (a) the right wing media running public discourse and pretty much never being honest either and (b) politicians - yes, like Starmer - saying they are one thing or having one belief and then changing it when the next focus group is unsure on it. The job of Keir Starmer was to win the labour leadership election and then it was to win public votes. He's decided the best way to do that was not a commitment to values he said he had when pitching for the labour leadership. That's politics, the reality is politicians lie to benefit their career and they think in doing so benefits the country. I don't agree.

Also it's not even a particular dislike of Starmer: see parties like the Greens protesting against wind farm installation in constituencies as well. Nick Clegg! Need I say more. Honest politicians whose values inform policy and they stick to that is harder to find than lying opportunitists such as Johnson.

Changing course, changing your mind, and even going back on promises with reasons given are not lies. This is not complicated.

[Biffer]

The thing is though, Johnson genuinely doesn't think he's done anything wrong. His entitlement and privilege is always there and he thinks that if anyone accuses him of doing something wrong then he can sort it out by everyone being decent chaps, putting it behind us and getting on with things, and then I'll do you a favour in future.

[fishfoodie]

This is fun

Man Talk about getting done prison style

If he wasn't a mouth breathing, lying toe rag I'd feel sorry for him.

[tabascoboy]

This is fun

Man Talk about getting done prison style

If he wasn't a mouth breathing, lying toe rag I'd feel sorry for him.

You can really see how the lack of cross-examination style interviewing from journalists in recent years has given rise to the belief that all you have to do is keep repeating rehearsed, stock answers whether or not they address the question asked. When that fails they just flounder.

[shaggy]

The thing is though, Johnson genuinely doesn't think he's done anything wrong. His entitlement and privilege is always there and he thinks that if anyone accuses him of doing something wrong then he can sort it out by everyone being decent chaps, putting it behind us and getting on with things, and then I'll do you a favour in future.

Disagree quite a bit here. He is a narcissist. Having worked for a couple in the past they just cannot think they can do any wrong. This outshines any entitlement and privilege.

The one who came from a very poor background was utterly relentless and wicked and had not a single redeeming feature.

[I like neeps]

Any definition that seeks to equate Starmer and Boris and put them same bucket for dishonesty is batshit insane. Starmer is not fundamentally dishonest. And yes, some of those campaign promises have been broken - with reasons given. That is a world away from just peddling untruths, let alone doing so on the scale that Johnson did on a near-daily basis.

I suggest you maybe read the bit where I said he does not lie as often as Johnson does then?

But liars like Boris Johnson are enabled by two things: (a) the right wing media running public discourse and pretty much never being honest either and (b) politicians - yes, like Starmer - saying they are one thing or having one belief and then changing it when the next focus group is unsure on it. The job of Keir Starmer was to win the labour leadership election and then it was to win public votes. He's decided the best way to do that was not a commitment to values he said he had when pitching for the labour leadership. That's politics, the reality is politicians lie to benefit their career and they think in doing so benefits the country. I don't agree.

Also it's not even a particular dislike of Starmer: see parties like the Greens protesting against wind farm installation in constituencies as well. Nick Clegg! Need I say more. Honest politicians whose values inform policy and they stick to that is harder to find than lying opportunitists such as Johnson.

Changing course, changing your mind, and even going back on promises with reasons given are not lies. This is not complicated.

Pitching yourself as something to win one election, and then pitching yourself as something else to win a different election is lying. This is not complicated.

[GogLais]

I suggest you maybe read the bit where I said he does not lie as often as Johnson does then?

But liars like Boris Johnson are enabled by two things: (a) the right wing media running public discourse and pretty much never being honest either and (b) politicians - yes, like Starmer - saying they are one thing or having one belief and then changing it when the next focus group is unsure on it. The job of Keir Starmer was to win the labour leadership election and then it was to win public votes. He's decided the best way to do that was not a commitment to values he said he had when pitching for the labour leadership. That's politics, the reality is politicians lie to benefit their career and they think in doing so benefits the country. I don't agree.

Also it's not even a particular dislike of Starmer: see parties like the Greens protesting against wind farm installation in constituencies as well. Nick Clegg! Need I say more. Honest politicians whose values inform policy and they stick to that is harder to find than lying opportunitists such as Johnson.

Changing course, changing your mind, and even going back on promises with reasons given are not lies. This is not complicated.

Pitching yourself as something to win one election, and then pitching yourself as something else to win a different election is lying. This is not complicated.

Not by any recognised definition of lying. Inconsistent? Maybe.

[tabascoboy]

SMH

[sockwithaticket]

I suggest you maybe read the bit where I said he does not lie as often as Johnson does then?

But liars like Boris Johnson are enabled by two things: (a) the right wing media running public discourse and pretty much never being honest either and (b) politicians - yes, like Starmer - saying they are one thing or having one belief and then changing it when the next focus group is unsure on it. The job of Keir Starmer was to win the labour leadership election and then it was to win public votes. He's decided the best way to do that was not a commitment to values he said he had when pitching for the labour leadership. That's politics, the reality is politicians lie to benefit their career and they think in doing so benefits the country. I don't agree.

Also it's not even a particular dislike of Starmer: see parties like the Greens protesting against wind farm installation in constituencies as well. Nick Clegg! Need I say more. Honest politicians whose values inform policy and they stick to that is harder to find than lying opportunitists such as Johnson.

Changing course, changing your mind, and even going back on promises with reasons given are not lies. This is not complicated.

Pitching yourself as something to win one election, and then pitching yourself as something else to win a different election is lying. This is not complicated.

Denying that you've changed position is lying, the act of changing it is not.

[fishfoodie]

SMH

Scouse completely missing the point that Labour lost the GE because millions made exactly the same choice as Sugar, for exactly the same reason !

[tabascoboy]

SMH

Scouse completely missing the point that Labour lost the GE because millions made exactly the same choice as Sugar, for exactly the same reason !

Even some anti-Brexiteers may have been too spooked by thoughts of Corbyn as PM. I just hope the current situation has caused enough changed minds that it's no longer the lesser of two evils - but just the one single evil we need to remove!

[Tichtheid]

Marina is bang on

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ate-report

[I like neeps]

Changing course, changing your mind, and even going back on promises with reasons given are not lies. This is not complicated.

Pitching yourself as something to win one election, and then pitching yourself as something else to win a different election is lying. This is not complicated.

Denying that you've changed position is lying, the act of changing it is not.

That assumes he created these positions as an honest reflection of how he wanted to run the country. Which he did not, he created these positions to win the labour leadership, and then changed course to positions he thinks will win over the country. Which is fine politicking, but it's lying. And it's why people are right to say all politicians lie.

[I like neeps]

I wonder when Starmer is going to discipline the racist he has writing his speeches. I'll probably be waiting some time.

[I like neeps]

Changing course, changing your mind, and even going back on promises with reasons given are not lies. This is not complicated.

Pitching yourself as something to win one election, and then pitching yourself as something else to win a different election is lying. This is not complicated.

Not by any recognised definition of lying. Inconsistent? Maybe.

Eh saying things that you don't mean to further your goal is the very definition of lying?

For example: https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2021/09/ ... alisation/ what on earth is this but a lie?

[tabascoboy]

Eh saying things that you don't mean to further your goal is the very definition of lying?

That's 21st century politics in a nutshell