The Official Cricket Thread

[Deepsouth]

It's called credibility.

here endith the lesson.

No so far the lesson is 2-0 and building

[Deepsouth]

Ah, the old excuse that the degree of the offence doesn’t matter. Usually used as a whataboutery excuse by someone who knows their guys has done something much worse but tries to spray the shit they’ve covered themselves in on to everyone else.

And trying to turn this into a thing where the Aussies are the only ones brave enough to take on cheating,

Mate who are you. Get back to me when Scotland gets a Test Team and Country for that matter.

Scotland are a clownshop when it comes to sport

Why are you, an aussie, on a rugby board then?

Because we have won 2 RWC and made 4 finals. You pricks up North would kill for that kind of record.

Huffers and puffers the lot of you......

[Thor Sedan]

Carey enacting a legal stumping and then Cummins not withdrawing the appeal - against the spirit of the game
Starc taking a catch but deemed not out even though ball was controlled and Stokes not waving Duckett to come in - totally fine in the spirit of the game?

It seems like this whole spirit of the game nonsense is creating more problems than its worth. Cricket is a sport - and top tier is all about winning. Every team has stuff go for them and against them and appealing to this spirit rubbish is absolute garbage.

Starc - don't ground the ball once you've taken a catch, Bairstow - stay in your crease until the umpire says over, MCC - don't preach spirit when you're all a bunch of drunken blazer wearing tw*ts.

[Biffer]

Mate who are you. Get back to me when Scotland gets a Test Team and Country for that matter.

Scotland are a clownshop when it comes to sport

Why are you, an aussie, on a rugby board then?

Because we have won 2 RWC and made 4 finals. You pricks up North would kill for that kind of record.

Huffers and puffers the lot of you......

You haven't won it this millennium, Scotland have beaten you three times out of the last four. You're shit.

[Biffer]

Carey enacting a legal stumping and then Cummins not withdrawing the appeal - against the spirit of the game
Starc taking a catch but deemed not out even though ball was controlled and Stokes not waving Duckett to come in - totally fine in the spirit of the game?

It seems like this whole spirit of the game nonsense is creating more problems than its worth. Cricket is a sport - and top tier is all about winning. Every team has stuff go for them and against them and appealing to this spirit rubbish is absolute garbage.

Starc - don't ground the ball once you've taken a catch, Bairstow - stay in your crease until the umpire says over, MCC - don't preach spirit when you're all a bunch of drunken blazer wearing tw*ts.

And the top tier is about rivalry, fans, and competition. That involves getting at each other about these things. If an aussie, the country most acknowledged in sledging, pushing hard at the edges etc, doesn't like it, that's hilarious.

[Big D]

Starc - don't ground the ball once you've taken a catch, Bairstow - stay in your crease until the umpire says over,

This.

It is a professional sport. Starc knows not to push the ball along the turf and Bairstow should know not to leave his crease when the ball is in the air. Dumb play by experienced professionals.

It is simple simple shit.

[Deepsouth]

Why are you, an aussie, on a rugby board then?

Because we have won 2 RWC and made 4 finals. You pricks up North would kill for that kind of record.

Huffers and puffers the lot of you......

You haven't won it this millennium, Scotland have beaten you three times out of the last four. You're shit.

Lol we have made two finals though. That would be an achievement that the tiny impotent state of Scotland could only have wet dreams about.

You have never done anything and you never will and the sad thing is you know that. Don't you....

[I like neeps]

What disappoints me most is Baz of Bazball fame (who as is now noted stumped players celebrating a team mates century!) is now saying they won't honour the spirit of the game by having a beer with the Aussies after the series.

Is the spirit of the game really not following established traditions because of pettiness. Very sad! Doesn't sound much cop this fabled "spirit of the game".

[Thor Sedan]

Carey enacting a legal stumping and then Cummins not withdrawing the appeal - against the spirit of the game
Starc taking a catch but deemed not out even though ball was controlled and Stokes not waving Duckett to come in - totally fine in the spirit of the game?

It seems like this whole spirit of the game nonsense is creating more problems than its worth. Cricket is a sport - and top tier is all about winning. Every team has stuff go for them and against them and appealing to this spirit rubbish is absolute garbage.

Starc - don't ground the ball once you've taken a catch, Bairstow - stay in your crease until the umpire says over, MCC - don't preach spirit when you're all a bunch of drunken blazer wearing tw*ts.

And the top tier is about rivalry, fans, and competition. That involves getting at each other about these things. If an aussie, the country most acknowledged in sledging, pushing hard at the edges etc, doesn't like it, that's hilarious.

TBF - it seems like the Aussies aren't really given much of a sh-t about it. It is the clean and pristine English that are melting down.

I am actually really starting to warm up to Cummins - his 'OK' response when told in an interview that Stokes would have withdrawn the appeal was great.

[Biffer]

Because we have won 2 RWC and made 4 finals. You pricks up North would kill for that kind of record.

Huffers and puffers the lot of you......

You haven't won it this millennium, Scotland have beaten you three times out of the last four. You're shit.

Lol we have made two finals though. That would be an achievement that the tiny impotent state of Scotland could only have wet dreams about.

You have never done anything and you never will and the sad thing is you know that. Don't you....

Second place is still a loser, according to most Aussies I've met. You're at the same level as us now, even though you hark back to results decades ago. As bad as the English in football.

[Deepsouth]

You haven't won it this millennium, Scotland have beaten you three times out of the last four. You're shit.

Lol we have made two finals though. That would be an achievement that the tiny impotent state of Scotland could only have wet dreams about.

You have never done anything and you never will and the sad thing is you know that. Don't you....

Second place is still a loser, according to most Aussies I've met. You're at the same level as us now, even though you hark back to results decades ago. As bad as the English in football.

Same level as us, what a joke. Listen to yourself. You have never won anything for fucks sake. The bar is very low

[JM2K6]

Carey enacting a legal stumping and then Cummins not withdrawing the appeal - against the spirit of the game
Starc taking a catch but deemed not out even though ball was controlled and Stokes not waving Duckett to come in - totally fine in the spirit of the game?

It seems like this whole spirit of the game nonsense is creating more problems than its worth. Cricket is a sport - and top tier is all about winning. Every team has stuff go for them and against them and appealing to this spirit rubbish is absolute garbage.

Starc - don't ground the ball once you've taken a catch, Bairstow - stay in your crease until the umpire says over, MCC - don't preach spirit when you're all a bunch of drunken blazer wearing tw*ts.

One of the things I dislike the most about this is the weird comparisons being drawn to completely different scenarios.

It's within the rights of the captain to withdraw the appeal if he feels it is against the spirit of the game. That is within his remit. However, he cannot change the decision of the officials, which is what would have to happen with Stokes and Duckett. Maybe he could ask his player to retire?! But it'd be a strong disagreement with the decision being made, rather than with asking the question in the first place.

Secondly, and much less relevantly, Starc's catch wasn't controlled. Sure, he'd grasped the ball, but he was still flying towards the floor and grounded the ball on the floor. You've got to be in control of your movements enough to satisfy the "controlled" aspect of it (as Mark Taylor said on comms) and if you're still moving at pace that ain't the case. I have the same problem with the Root wicket that I mentioned earlier in the thread - the ball hit the ground pretty hard after being grasped and was actually knocked into the air and then regathered, but was given out. The problem here is that there's been a few of these and there's confusion over how it should actually be ruled on.

Anyway, my biggest problem with this whole thing has been the levels of sanctimony emanating from both sides.

• England taking the moral high ground on whether they'd have withdrawn the appeal - puke.

• People suggesting Carey did anything other than an immediate attempted long-range stumping - puke.

• People arguing until they're blue in the face that it's extremely bad sportsmanship or cheating - puke.

• People getting really huffy about the booing and the anger in the long room - puke.

• People claiming a racial angle because Khawaja was one of the ones who stopped to argue - fuck off and double puke.

• People trying to 'gotcha' England by pointing to unrelated incidents and missing the point of the end-of-over angle - puke.

• People taking Stuart Broad's pantomime villain act far too seriously and missing the hilarity of it - puke.

• People forgetting that Bairstow is as thick as a whale omelette AND a ginger Yorkshireman who therefore deserves no pity - ULTIMATE PUKE.

IMO, it was great fun. Looking forward to the 3rd Test far more now. It was a great incident and led to incredible drama in an otherwise fairly one-sided match.

[GogLais]

I’m starting to feel smug about the fact that fortunately my self-worth isn’t based on how well fifteen Welsh people can kick or throw a ball around. Now being a countryman of Bryn Terfel or Anthony Hopkins is another thing.

[Biffer]

Lol we have made two finals though. That would be an achievement that the tiny impotent state of Scotland could only have wet dreams about.

You have never done anything and you never will and the sad thing is you know that. Don't you....

Second place is still a loser, according to most Aussies I've met. You're at the same level as us now, even though you hark back to results decades ago. As bad as the English in football.

Same level as us, what a joke. Listen to yourself. You have never won anything for fucks sake. The bar is very low

You're our bunnies for the last ten years or so.

[Thor Sedan]

Carey enacting a legal stumping and then Cummins not withdrawing the appeal - against the spirit of the game
Starc taking a catch but deemed not out even though ball was controlled and Stokes not waving Duckett to come in - totally fine in the spirit of the game?

It seems like this whole spirit of the game nonsense is creating more problems than its worth. Cricket is a sport - and top tier is all about winning. Every team has stuff go for them and against them and appealing to this spirit rubbish is absolute garbage.

Starc - don't ground the ball once you've taken a catch, Bairstow - stay in your crease until the umpire says over, MCC - don't preach spirit when you're all a bunch of drunken blazer wearing tw*ts.

One of the things I dislike the most about this is the weird comparisons being drawn to completely different scenarios.

It's within the rights of the captain to withdraw the appeal if he feels it is against the spirit of the game. That is within his remit. However, he cannot change the decision of the officials, which is what would have to happen with Stokes and Duckett. Maybe he could ask his player to retire?! But it'd be a strong disagreement with the decision being made, rather than with asking the question in the first place.

Secondly, and much less relevantly, Starc's catch wasn't controlled. Sure, he'd grasped the ball, but he was still flying towards the floor and grounded the ball on the floor. You've got to be in control of your movements enough to satisfy the "controlled" aspect of it (as Mark Taylor said on comms) and if you're still moving at pace that ain't the case. I have the same problem with the Root wicket that I mentioned earlier in the thread - the ball hit the ground pretty hard after being grasped and was actually knocked into the air and then regathered, but was given out. The problem here is that there's been a few of these and there's confusion over how it should actually be ruled on.

Anyway, my biggest problem with this whole thing has been the levels of sanctimony emanating from both sides.

• England taking the moral high ground on whether they'd have withdrawn the appeal - puke.

• People suggesting Carey did anything other than an immediate attempted long-range stumping - puke.

• People arguing until they're blue in the face that it's extremely bad sportsmanship or cheating - puke.

• People getting really huffy about the booing and the anger in the long room - puke.

• People claiming a racial angle because Khawaja was one of the ones who stopped to argue - fuck off and double puke.

• People trying to 'gotcha' England by pointing to unrelated incidents and missing the point of the end-of-over angle - puke.

• People taking Stuart Broad's pantomime villain act far too seriously and missing the hilarity of it - puke.

• People forgetting that Bairstow is as thick as a whale omelette AND a ginger Yorkshireman who therefore deserves no pity - ULTIMATE PUKE.

IMO, it was great fun. Looking forward to the 3rd Test far more now. It was a great incident and led to incredible drama in an otherwise fairly one-sided match.

I am surprised at how much fun it was to watch. Bairstow's horror and anger at being a dozy muppet. Stokes' calm and resulting onslaught. Broad's absolute sh=thousery - I mean he wipes his arse with the whole spirit thing - but it was an innings of genuine belly laughs. The blazer wearing yobs, the crowd chants, Smith giving it back after the catch, Baz trying his best not to punch stuff, Cummins smashing every interview he did.

I agree - must of the comparison stuff is pointless and wrong - but I think it does show that one team being outraged about 'spirit' is just clickbait. Every team is capable of bending things to their benefit - but tribal bias is always going to be the loudest of voices.

Leeds is going to be off the hook on Thursday.

[Insane_Homer]

People forgetting that Bairstow is as thick as a whale omelette AND a ginger Yorkshireman who therefore deserves no pity

Mostly this.

[Biffer]

Carey enacting a legal stumping and then Cummins not withdrawing the appeal - against the spirit of the game
Starc taking a catch but deemed not out even though ball was controlled and Stokes not waving Duckett to come in - totally fine in the spirit of the game?

It seems like this whole spirit of the game nonsense is creating more problems than its worth. Cricket is a sport - and top tier is all about winning. Every team has stuff go for them and against them and appealing to this spirit rubbish is absolute garbage.

Starc - don't ground the ball once you've taken a catch, Bairstow - stay in your crease until the umpire says over, MCC - don't preach spirit when you're all a bunch of drunken blazer wearing tw*ts.

One of the things I dislike the most about this is the weird comparisons being drawn to completely different scenarios.

It's within the rights of the captain to withdraw the appeal if he feels it is against the spirit of the game. That is within his remit. However, he cannot change the decision of the officials, which is what would have to happen with Stokes and Duckett. Maybe he could ask his player to retire?! But it'd be a strong disagreement with the decision being made, rather than with asking the question in the first place.

Secondly, and much less relevantly, Starc's catch wasn't controlled. Sure, he'd grasped the ball, but he was still flying towards the floor and grounded the ball on the floor. You've got to be in control of your movements enough to satisfy the "controlled" aspect of it (as Mark Taylor said on comms) and if you're still moving at pace that ain't the case. I have the same problem with the Root wicket that I mentioned earlier in the thread - the ball hit the ground pretty hard after being grasped and was actually knocked into the air and then regathered, but was given out. The problem here is that there's been a few of these and there's confusion over how it should actually be ruled on.

Anyway, my biggest problem with this whole thing has been the levels of sanctimony emanating from both sides.

• England taking the moral high ground on whether they'd have withdrawn the appeal - puke.

• People suggesting Carey did anything other than an immediate attempted long-range stumping - puke.

• People arguing until they're blue in the face that it's extremely bad sportsmanship or cheating - puke.

• People getting really huffy about the booing and the anger in the long room - puke.

• People claiming a racial angle because Khawaja was one of the ones who stopped to argue - fuck off and double puke.

• People trying to 'gotcha' England by pointing to unrelated incidents and missing the point of the end-of-over angle - puke.

• People taking Stuart Broad's pantomime villain act far too seriously and missing the hilarity of it - puke.

• People forgetting that Bairstow is as thick as a whale omelette AND a ginger Yorkshireman who therefore deserves no pity - ULTIMATE PUKE.

IMO, it was great fun. Looking forward to the 3rd Test far more now. It was a great incident and led to incredible drama in an otherwise fairly one-sided match.

I am surprised at how much fun it was to watch. Bairstow's horror and anger at being a dozy muppet. Stokes' calm and resulting onslaught. Broad's absolute sh=thousery - I mean he wipes his arse with the whole spirit thing - but it was an innings of genuine belly laughs. The blazer wearing yobs, the crowd chants, Smith giving it back after the catch, Baz trying his best not to punch stuff, Cummins smashing every interview he did.

I agree - must of the comparison stuff is pointless and wrong - but I think it does show that one team being outraged about 'spirit' is just clickbait. Every team is capable of bending things to their benefit - but tribal bias is always going to be the loudest of voices.

Leeds is going to be off the hook on Thursday.

I'm going to Headingley on Friday, can't wait!

[JM2K6]

Carey enacting a legal stumping and then Cummins not withdrawing the appeal - against the spirit of the game
Starc taking a catch but deemed not out even though ball was controlled and Stokes not waving Duckett to come in - totally fine in the spirit of the game?

It seems like this whole spirit of the game nonsense is creating more problems than its worth. Cricket is a sport - and top tier is all about winning. Every team has stuff go for them and against them and appealing to this spirit rubbish is absolute garbage.

Starc - don't ground the ball once you've taken a catch, Bairstow - stay in your crease until the umpire says over, MCC - don't preach spirit when you're all a bunch of drunken blazer wearing tw*ts.

One of the things I dislike the most about this is the weird comparisons being drawn to completely different scenarios.

It's within the rights of the captain to withdraw the appeal if he feels it is against the spirit of the game. That is within his remit. However, he cannot change the decision of the officials, which is what would have to happen with Stokes and Duckett. Maybe he could ask his player to retire?! But it'd be a strong disagreement with the decision being made, rather than with asking the question in the first place.

Secondly, and much less relevantly, Starc's catch wasn't controlled. Sure, he'd grasped the ball, but he was still flying towards the floor and grounded the ball on the floor. You've got to be in control of your movements enough to satisfy the "controlled" aspect of it (as Mark Taylor said on comms) and if you're still moving at pace that ain't the case. I have the same problem with the Root wicket that I mentioned earlier in the thread - the ball hit the ground pretty hard after being grasped and was actually knocked into the air and then regathered, but was given out. The problem here is that there's been a few of these and there's confusion over how it should actually be ruled on.

Anyway, my biggest problem with this whole thing has been the levels of sanctimony emanating from both sides.

• England taking the moral high ground on whether they'd have withdrawn the appeal - puke.

• People suggesting Carey did anything other than an immediate attempted long-range stumping - puke.

• People arguing until they're blue in the face that it's extremely bad sportsmanship or cheating - puke.

• People getting really huffy about the booing and the anger in the long room - puke.

• People claiming a racial angle because Khawaja was one of the ones who stopped to argue - fuck off and double puke.

• People trying to 'gotcha' England by pointing to unrelated incidents and missing the point of the end-of-over angle - puke.

• People taking Stuart Broad's pantomime villain act far too seriously and missing the hilarity of it - puke.

• People forgetting that Bairstow is as thick as a whale omelette AND a ginger Yorkshireman who therefore deserves no pity - ULTIMATE PUKE.

IMO, it was great fun. Looking forward to the 3rd Test far more now. It was a great incident and led to incredible drama in an otherwise fairly one-sided match.

I am surprised at how much fun it was to watch. Bairstow's horror and anger at being a dozy muppet. Stokes' calm and resulting onslaught. Broad's absolute sh=thousery - I mean he wipes his arse with the whole spirit thing - but it was an innings of genuine belly laughs. The blazer wearing yobs, the crowd chants, Smith giving it back after the catch, Baz trying his best not to punch stuff, Cummins smashing every interview he did.

I agree - must of the comparison stuff is pointless and wrong - but I think it does show that one team being outraged about 'spirit' is just clickbait. Every team is capable of bending things to their benefit - but tribal bias is always going to be the loudest of voices.

Leeds is going to be off the hook on Thursday.

Oh yeah Cummins' interview was superb, properly great stuff. Right up there with Broad's running commentary and his Stewart Lee style commitment to the bit long after Australia stopped finding it funny. Very disappointed that Bazball (being a bit po-faced) doesn't lend itself to banter interviews like it does to banter column writing. Should've sent Ollie Robinson and Broad out to talk to the media.

Also one of the funnier moments was Hazlewood doing the Jesus pose after Stokes had finally, finally stopped treating him like a net bowler and top edged one. I'm hoping it was either incredible self awareness or an incredible lack of self awareness akin to Michael Owen celebrating beating that teenage keeper - no middle ground please.

Smith's drop made me genuinely laugh incredibly loudly, although part of that was he fucked it up so badly it looked on first viewing like he'd shelled it while trying to turn to celebrate which would've been too funny for the universe to survive


re: Broad and interviews, don't forget the interview he gave while England were being absolutely monstered by NZ in NZ when Sandpapergate broke. Just the perfect amount of trolling, talking about how well the Aussies managed to make the ball talk during the Ashes.

[Insane_Homer]

Don't forget McGrath getting battered post "that catch" for insisting it was out. They trotted out the 3rd ump, a guy from MCC crickets rules and stuff, everyone else disagreed with him; but he steadfastly stuck to his guns in true panto fashion.

[Thor Sedan]

Oh yeah Cummins' interview was superb, properly great stuff. Right up there with Broad's running commentary and his Stewart Lee style commitment to the bit long after Australia stopped finding it funny. Very disappointed that Bazball (being a bit po-faced) doesn't lend itself to banter interviews like it does to banter column writing. Should've sent Ollie Robinson and Broad out to talk to the media.

Also one of the funnier moments was Hazlewood doing the Jesus pose after Stokes had finally, finally stopped treating him like a net bowler and top edged one. I'm hoping it was either incredible self awareness or an incredible lack of self awareness akin to Michael Owen celebrating beating that teenage keeper - no middle ground please.

Smith's drop made me genuinely laugh incredibly loudly, although part of that was he fucked it up so badly it looked on first viewing like he'd shelled it while trying to turn to celebrate which would've been too funny for the universe to survive


re: Broad and interviews, don't forget the interview he gave while England were being absolutely monstered by NZ in NZ when Sandpapergate broke. Just the perfect amount of trolling, talking about how well the Aussies managed to make the ball talk during the Ashes.

I was also giggling at Labuschagne treating the whole thing as a big ol' back slapping and joking with Broad - even though I think Broad was actually pretty close to throwing down.

'We're just having fun aren't we Broady......aren't we.....Broady'?

This was the touch paper that this series needed. It was getting pretty pally and lacking spite.

Ashes without spite is sad Ashes.

[Deepsouth]

Second place is still a loser, according to most Aussies I've met. You're at the same level as us now, even though you hark back to results decades ago. As bad as the English in football.

Same level as us, what a joke. Listen to yourself. You have never won anything for fucks sake. The bar is very low

You're our bunnies for the last ten years or so.

And you have been England's for the last 400

[JM2K6]

Same level as us, what a joke. Listen to yourself. You have never won anything for fucks sake. The bar is very low

You're our bunnies for the last ten years or so.

And you have been England's for the last 400

A man who is very very well informed on rugby speaks

[JM2K6]

Oh yeah Cummins' interview was superb, properly great stuff. Right up there with Broad's running commentary and his Stewart Lee style commitment to the bit long after Australia stopped finding it funny. Very disappointed that Bazball (being a bit po-faced) doesn't lend itself to banter interviews like it does to banter column writing. Should've sent Ollie Robinson and Broad out to talk to the media.

Also one of the funnier moments was Hazlewood doing the Jesus pose after Stokes had finally, finally stopped treating him like a net bowler and top edged one. I'm hoping it was either incredible self awareness or an incredible lack of self awareness akin to Michael Owen celebrating beating that teenage keeper - no middle ground please.

Smith's drop made me genuinely laugh incredibly loudly, although part of that was he fucked it up so badly it looked on first viewing like he'd shelled it while trying to turn to celebrate which would've been too funny for the universe to survive


re: Broad and interviews, don't forget the interview he gave while England were being absolutely monstered by NZ in NZ when Sandpapergate broke. Just the perfect amount of trolling, talking about how well the Aussies managed to make the ball talk during the Ashes.

I was also giggling at Labuschagne treating the whole thing as a big ol' back slapping and joking with Broad - even though I think Broad was actually pretty close to throwing down.

'We're just having fun aren't we Broady......aren't we.....Broady'?

This was the touch paper that this series needed. It was getting pretty pally and lacking spite.

Ashes without spite is sad Ashes.

Agreed! I think Marnus (and the rest) stopped finding it funny after about an hour of Broad's exaggerated checking at the end of every over, especially with his ability to not get out. You might be able to laugh along with him for a while but his ability to needle, find the balance between absurdity and intenisty, and commit to it extend beyond normal human endurance. They were very sick of it by the end. Great stuff.

And completely agree about the spite. It's something that drives a few people in the England team in particular so I'm hoping it will lead to a bit more of an end product from Bairstow, Anderson, et al.

[Big D]

Oh yeah Cummins' interview was superb, properly great stuff. Right up there with Broad's running commentary and his Stewart Lee style commitment to the bit long after Australia stopped finding it funny. Very disappointed that Bazball (being a bit po-faced) doesn't lend itself to banter interviews like it does to banter column writing. Should've sent Ollie Robinson and Broad out to talk to the media.

Also one of the funnier moments was Hazlewood doing the Jesus pose after Stokes had finally, finally stopped treating him like a net bowler and top edged one. I'm hoping it was either incredible self awareness or an incredible lack of self awareness akin to Michael Owen celebrating beating that teenage keeper - no middle ground please.

Smith's drop made me genuinely laugh incredibly loudly, although part of that was he fucked it up so badly it looked on first viewing like he'd shelled it while trying to turn to celebrate which would've been too funny for the universe to survive


re: Broad and interviews, don't forget the interview he gave while England were being absolutely monstered by NZ in NZ when Sandpapergate broke. Just the perfect amount of trolling, talking about how well the Aussies managed to make the ball talk during the Ashes.

I was also giggling at Labuschagne treating the whole thing as a big ol' back slapping and joking with Broad - even though I think Broad was actually pretty close to throwing down.

'We're just having fun aren't we Broady......aren't we.....Broady'?

This was the touch paper that this series needed. It was getting pretty pally and lacking spite.

Ashes without spite is sad Ashes.

I think a part of the reason the spite has gone is the lack of quick bowling from England's side. When the spite is flying the bowling often has a big part to play in it IMO.

England just don't have that at the moment for the bowling to be really nasty. Wood should come in but having Archer or Stone available too would make a world of difference in terms of pace the Aussies need to face. Pity they are made of biscuit.

[Biffer]

Oh yeah Cummins' interview was superb, properly great stuff. Right up there with Broad's running commentary and his Stewart Lee style commitment to the bit long after Australia stopped finding it funny. Very disappointed that Bazball (being a bit po-faced) doesn't lend itself to banter interviews like it does to banter column writing. Should've sent Ollie Robinson and Broad out to talk to the media.

Also one of the funnier moments was Hazlewood doing the Jesus pose after Stokes had finally, finally stopped treating him like a net bowler and top edged one. I'm hoping it was either incredible self awareness or an incredible lack of self awareness akin to Michael Owen celebrating beating that teenage keeper - no middle ground please.

Smith's drop made me genuinely laugh incredibly loudly, although part of that was he fucked it up so badly it looked on first viewing like he'd shelled it while trying to turn to celebrate which would've been too funny for the universe to survive


re: Broad and interviews, don't forget the interview he gave while England were being absolutely monstered by NZ in NZ when Sandpapergate broke. Just the perfect amount of trolling, talking about how well the Aussies managed to make the ball talk during the Ashes.

I was also giggling at Labuschagne treating the whole thing as a big ol' back slapping and joking with Broad - even though I think Broad was actually pretty close to throwing down.

'We're just having fun aren't we Broady......aren't we.....Broady'?

This was the touch paper that this series needed. It was getting pretty pally and lacking spite.

Ashes without spite is sad Ashes.

I think a part of the reason the spite has gone is the lack of quick bowling from England's side. When the spite is flying the bowling often has a big part to play in it IMO.

England just don't have that at the moment for the bowling to be really nasty. Wood should come in but having Archer or Stone available too would make a world of difference in terms of pace the Aussies need to face. Pity they are made of biscuit.

I'm with Fred Trueman on this. Fast bowlers don't bowl enough, so they're not conditioned for test cricket. It's like being a prop - nothing prepares you properly for scrummaging apart from scrummaging. Pace bowling is the same.

[JM2K6]

Eh, too heavy a workload is exactly why many of our quicks break so easily. Some of the most durable fast bowlers of the last 20 years were properly managed. It's really not as simple as a Yorkshire truism makes out.

How does bowling more often stop repetitive stress fractures?

How would Jofra's elbow have benefited from more overs more often?

[Biffer]

Eh, too heavy a workload is exactly why many of our quicks break so easily. Some of the most durable fast bowlers of the last 20 years were properly managed. It's really not as simple as a Yorkshire truism makes out.

How does bowling more often stop repetitive stress fractures?

How would Jofra's elbow have benefited from more overs more often?

But they bowled more overs back in the day. Mainly because it was all red ball four day cricket. Maybe it was the different pattern - 20+ overs one day, nothing the next. And the year round cricket as well.

[GogLais]

Jeff Jones retired young in the 1960s with a dodgy elbow.

[dpedin]

I thought the cricket on Sunday and indeed the whole match was just hilariously brilliant. England have prepared a couple of pretty shit wickets for these first two games with no bounce or spin potential and hoping they were going to get swing conditions to suit their aging bowling attack. However their bowling is average at best, Broad and Anderson are well past their sell by dates. They even resorted to bringing back retired spinner Ali to prop up their team but that didnt end well. In desperation they end up sending down short ball after short ball, 98% of all balls apparently ... but all in the spirit of the game? Dropped catches, dodgy catches, dodgy run outs and general mayhem then ensues. Stokes goes radgie and start clubbing the ball all over the place. However the Aussies hold their nerves and win a game that should have been far more comfortable. England then cry foul and utter some nonsense about spirit of the game, forgetting all the previous times their behaviour didn't quite reach the standards they accuse the Aussies of dropping below. The epitome of the English Gentleman, the MCC members, then go off on a drunken tirade and abuse the Aussies on the Long Room. I was most disappointed there weren't any fisticuffs or at least pistols at dawn! Apparently the beaten English will now forgo any post match/series beers with the Aussies now and have taken their stumps home in the huff! Brilliant, loved it!

Bottom line is despite Englands best efforts to big up their Bazball game, ensure the wickets are prepared to suit their impotent swing/seam bowling attack and stir up a frenzy in the crowd they lost. They are still well short of a bowling attack that is up to the standard required to win the Ashes. Their batting line up isn't quite so bad but still lacks depth and concentration to get them over the line. I suspect we might see a different wicket prepared for next test with more bounce and more movement in it but it won't make enough of a difference. I can see the Aussies retaining the Ashes in Leeds. I just hope Headingly is as much fun Lords test was.

[JM2K6]

Eh, too heavy a workload is exactly why many of our quicks break so easily. Some of the most durable fast bowlers of the last 20 years were properly managed. It's really not as simple as a Yorkshire truism makes out.

How does bowling more often stop repetitive stress fractures?

How would Jofra's elbow have benefited from more overs more often?

But they bowled more overs back in the day. Mainly because it was all red ball four day cricket. Maybe it was the different pattern - 20+ overs one day, nothing the next. And the year round cricket as well.

Survivorship bias is a thing. You don't hear about the fast bowlers who retired early or just got injured and disappeared, because they're not the ones who made it big enough to have an opinion.

None of this pays attention to the much higher overall standard of bowling and batting, fielding has improved out of sight and everyone is expected to be brilliant, sustained fast bowling vs bowlers who "could" bowl fast, etc. I am deeply, deeply suspicious of any "back in my day" stuff when you can point to an increased workload as the tipping point for a lot of fast bowlers picking up injuries in the last 20-odd years. This isn't about muscular injuries, it's bones, ligaments, and cartilege. Wear and tear and stuff that breaks under extreme force.

The biggest factor in fast bowling injuries is repeating an action that is likely to cause injury through repetition.

[JM2K6]

I thought the cricket on Sunday and indeed the whole match was just hilariously brilliant. England have prepared a couple of pretty shit wickets for these first two games with no bounce or spin potential and hoping they were going to get swing conditions to suit their aging bowling attack. However their bowling is average at best, Broad and Anderson are well past their sell by dates. They even resorted to bringing back retired spinner Ali to prop up their team but that didnt end well. In desperation they end up sending down short ball after short ball, 98% of all balls apparently ... but all in the spirit of the game? Dropped catches, dodgy catches, dodgy run outs and general mayhem then ensues. Stokes goes radgie and start clubbing the ball all over the place. However the Aussies hold their nerves and win a game that should have been far more comfortable. England then cry foul and utter some nonsense about spirit of the game, forgetting all the previous times their behaviour didn't quite reach the standards they accuse the Aussies of dropping below. The epitome of the English Gentleman, the MCC members, then go off on a drunken tirade and abuse the Aussies on the Long Room. I was most disappointed there weren't any fisticuffs or at least pistols at dawn! Apparently the beaten English will now forgo any post match/series beers with the Aussies now and have taken their stumps home in the huff! Brilliant, loved it!

Bottom line is despite Englands best efforts to big up their Bazball game, ensure the wickets are prepared to suit their impotent swing/seam bowling attack and stir up a frenzy in the crowd they lost. They are still well short of a bowling attack that is up to the standard required to win the Ashes. Their batting line up isn't quite so bad but still lacks depth and concentration to get them over the line. I suspect we might see a different wicket prepared for next test with more bounce and more movement in it but it won't make enough of a difference. I can see the Aussies retaining the Ashes in Leeds. I just hope Headingly is as much fun Lords test was.

Just a few quibbles with this. Hope you don't mind.

1) Stokes wanted flat, fast pitches, i.e. something similar to T20 and ODI tracks. Not flat and dog-tired slow nonsense where the ball doesn't carry. No-one who is relying on swing and seam wants a slow wicket, that's just dense. And not to put too fine a point on it, but anyone who thinks you can make a pitch to measure at every Test ground in the UK is absolutely fucking barking. There's stuff you can do to help but with the climate as it is - especially in recent years - it's almost impossible to make Lord's a fast bouncy track while not risking it being a dogshit Test wicket when it's been slow as fuck for seasons now. It's not like you just install a different surface, and the recent changes to the domestic schedules have really messed with the ability to curate and prepare an excellent track.

2) Broad and Anderson are well past their sell by dates? Anderson's having a shit series but he's been fucking brilliant over the last few years, so if he is past his sell by date, that date was a couple of weeks ago. Broad was brilliant last week and is the top wicket taker on either side in the series. Maybe it is the end for Anderson, who knows, but claiming Broad's done because of... er, not liking him I guess, is very silly. Broad so far: 3-68, 3-64, 1-99, 4-65. If that's past it, I hope all our quicks are past it.

3) Both sides "resorted to" the short ball attack, and it worked for both sides. Are we forgetting the short ball barrage that everyone was mocking the English batsmen for falling to, or does this only count if it's England doing it? Did you watch the Aussie bowling after lunch yesterday? It's a valid tactic and it worked for both sides. England took 8-150ish doing it iirc.

4) "Apparently the beaten English will now forgo any post match/series beers with the Aussies now" - well, McCullum was asked about the spite and said "we're probably not going to go for a beer any time soon" i.e. there's a bit of bad feeling between the sides, not announcing they would refuse to socialise. It's not some huffy policy that's been hastily put into place, just acknowledgement that things have turned a bit sour.

I know part of your schtick is the whole anti-English thing but it would probably land better if you stuck to the stuff that made sense and didn't suggest you'd read something on t'internet and went off half-cocked. Not like there's not a huge amount of actual live ammunition to use that's been provided by the truckload by the team & media, i.e. the whole spirit of cricket nonsense, the ludicrous cheating accusations, the absolutely hatstand newspaper columns, the sniffy moral high ground approach, etc etc

[Big D]

Will be interesting to see if Broad makes it to 600 wickets in the Ashes. 12 wickets needed.

Lyon would have got to 500 too this series.

[dpedin]

I thought the cricket on Sunday and indeed the whole match was just hilariously brilliant. England have prepared a couple of pretty shit wickets for these first two games with no bounce or spin potential and hoping they were going to get swing conditions to suit their aging bowling attack. However their bowling is average at best, Broad and Anderson are well past their sell by dates. They even resorted to bringing back retired spinner Ali to prop up their team but that didnt end well. In desperation they end up sending down short ball after short ball, 98% of all balls apparently ... but all in the spirit of the game? Dropped catches, dodgy catches, dodgy run outs and general mayhem then ensues. Stokes goes radgie and start clubbing the ball all over the place. However the Aussies hold their nerves and win a game that should have been far more comfortable. England then cry foul and utter some nonsense about spirit of the game, forgetting all the previous times their behaviour didn't quite reach the standards they accuse the Aussies of dropping below. The epitome of the English Gentleman, the MCC members, then go off on a drunken tirade and abuse the Aussies on the Long Room. I was most disappointed there weren't any fisticuffs or at least pistols at dawn! Apparently the beaten English will now forgo any post match/series beers with the Aussies now and have taken their stumps home in the huff! Brilliant, loved it!

Bottom line is despite Englands best efforts to big up their Bazball game, ensure the wickets are prepared to suit their impotent swing/seam bowling attack and stir up a frenzy in the crowd they lost. They are still well short of a bowling attack that is up to the standard required to win the Ashes. Their batting line up isn't quite so bad but still lacks depth and concentration to get them over the line. I suspect we might see a different wicket prepared for next test with more bounce and more movement in it but it won't make enough of a difference. I can see the Aussies retaining the Ashes in Leeds. I just hope Headingly is as much fun Lords test was.

Just a few quibbles with this. Hope you don't mind.

1) Stokes wanted flat, fast pitches, i.e. something similar to T20 and ODI tracks. Not flat and dog-tired slow nonsense where the ball doesn't carry. No-one who is relying on swing and seam wants a slow wicket, that's just dense. And not to put too fine a point on it, but anyone who thinks you can make a pitch to measure at every Test ground in the UK is absolutely fucking barking. There's stuff you can do to help but with the climate as it is - especially in recent years - it's almost impossible to make Lord's a fast bouncy track while not risking it being a dogshit Test wicket when it's been slow as fuck for seasons now. It's not like you just install a different surface, and the recent changes to the domestic schedules have really messed with the ability to curate and prepare an excellent track.

2) Broad and Anderson are well past their sell by dates? Anderson's having a shit series but he's been fucking brilliant over the last few years, so if he is past his sell by date, that date was a couple of weeks ago. Broad was brilliant last week and is the top wicket taker on either side in the series. Maybe it is the end for Anderson, who knows, but claiming Broad's done because of... er, not liking him I guess, is very silly. Broad so far: 3-68, 3-64, 1-99, 4-65. If that's past it, I hope all our quicks are past it.

3) Both sides "resorted to" the short ball attack, and it worked for both sides. Are we forgetting the short ball barrage that everyone was mocking the English batsmen for falling to, or does this only count if it's England doing it? Did you watch the Aussie bowling after lunch yesterday? It's a valid tactic and it worked for both sides. England took 8-150ish doing it iirc.

4) "Apparently the beaten English will now forgo any post match/series beers with the Aussies now" - well, McCullum was asked about the spite and said "we're probably not going to go for a beer any time soon" i.e. there's a bit of bad feeling between the sides, not announcing they would refuse to socialise. It's not some huffy policy that's been hastily put into place, just acknowledgement that things have turned a bit sour.

I know part of your schtick is the whole anti-English thing but it would probably land better if you stuck to the stuff that made sense and didn't suggest you'd read something on t'internet and went off half-cocked. Not like there's not a huge amount of actual live ammunition to use that's been provided by the truckload by the team & media, i.e. the whole spirit of cricket nonsense, the ludicrous cheating accusations, the absolutely hatstand newspaper columns, the sniffy moral high ground approach, etc etc

Of course I don't mind - that the point of posting!

Both pitches so far have been prepared for the English attack, or to frustrate the Aussies, as much as can they can be. They don't have the pace of the Aussies nor the spin available - Ali coming back from the retirement didnt work - so they need pitches that blunt the Aussies as much as suiting their bowling - that's what we got. England had the best of the bowling conditions in the 2nd test , it should have swung and it's why they put the Aussies into bat, yet failed to contain the Aussies. Their attack didn't do much and it was only the young guy Tongue who did well. Broad and Anderson struggled. To be fair they had similar conditions for the Aussies 2nd innings and did a bit better but not enough. The Aussies bowled with more variety and as well as short balls also bowled full length and managed to swing the ball more and tried to tempt the English batsmen out wide, it is somewhat misleading to suggest they bowled as many short balls as England did, they had success with fuller length ball as well.

England won't win the series because their bowling is pretty one dimensional, despite the stats neither Broad not Anderson made any real breakthroughs when they needed to and only Tongue showed any real threat. Bowling short - 98% of balls in the 2nd innings - might eventually help them take wickets but it hasn't won them games so far in this series.Also their batting is lacking depth and still pretty fragile, Stokes and Duckett excepted, they had a mini collapse in the 1st innings from a good position and apart from Stokes and Duckett in the 2nd innings they were very poor. It's the Aussies series to win even having lost Lyon for the remaining games - Stokes can't win the next 3 matches all by himself!

[JM2K6]

Again, those pitches were not made to order. They suit neither the English bowlers nor, more importantly, England's batting lineup. There's a reason why Anderson said many more pitches like that first one would hasten his retirement. Once more, Stokes wants fast and flat, not shit and flat. He wants to give the batting the best possible chance of being able to trust the bounce and get full value for attacking shots, while giving the seamers and swing bowlers something to work with. And England is mostly seam these days, even Jimmy. So please stop making out that England wanted slow awkward wickets, because it's expressly not want Stokes asked for and manifestly not what the batters want either.

On short bowling: You're confusing an effective tactic that actually took a bunch of wickets for both teams on a specific pitch with the result of the match. "It might have taken wickets but it didn't win the match" is daft - Australia also bowled short, took wickets, and did win the the match, and England didn't spend the entire time bowling short in the first match. It was a tactic tailored to the conditions and the situation, Australia collapsed as a result of it, and it worked so well that Australia decided to copy it.

Also ffs if you're going to repeat stuff you read online, at least get it right. England bowled 98% short for one session.

[Kiwias]

Carey enacting a legal stumping and then Cummins not withdrawing the appeal - against the spirit of the game
Starc taking a catch but deemed not out even though ball was controlled and Stokes not waving Duckett to come in - totally fine in the spirit of the game?

It seems like this whole spirit of the game nonsense is creating more problems than its worth. Cricket is a sport - and top tier is all about winning. Every team has stuff go for them and against them and appealing to this spirit rubbish is absolute garbage.

Starc - don't ground the ball once you've taken a catch, Bairstow - stay in your crease until the umpire says over, MCC - don't preach spirit when you're all a bunch of drunken blazer wearing tw*ts.

This

[Gumboot]

I read that England will bring in Dan Lawrence if Ollie Pope doesn't recover from his shoulder injury. Reckon they'd be better off with Ben Foakes, who's a far better keeper than Bairstow, and no slouch with the bat. The excellent Carey has given Australia a clear advantage in the keeping department so far.

[OomStruisbaai]

Golden rule in cricket Select the keeper first and then the rest. Like a the TH in rugby.

[Biffer]

Golden rule in cricket Select the keeper first and then the rest. Like a the TH in rugby.

Since Adam Gilchrist, wicketkeeping has been considered second class to batting. So many coaches just trying yo chuck a pair if gloves on a willing good fielder. It's absolute nonsense and I think that's been demonstrated in this series.

[Gumboot]

Surely there's room for both Bairstow and Foakes in the same batting line-up. It's hardly a settled order...is it?

[clydecloggie]

Crunch match in the CWC Qualifiers today.

Scotland v Zimbabwe. If Zimbabwe win, they take the second ticket and the tournament is done. If Scotland win, their match against the Netherlands on Thursday becomes a 3-way crunch with Scotland qualifying with a win, the Netherlands qualifying with a big-enough win, and Zimbabwe qualifying if the Dutch win but not by enough. For that alone, today requires a Scottish win.

They're currently batting at snail's pace due to disciplined Zimbabwe bowling, 85/1 after 20.3. The nine wickets in hand should mean fireworks later on.