The Official English Rugby Thread

[JM2K6]

[SaintK]

Hopefully Saints will bring in someone that can tighten up the defence. The writing has been on the wall for a while!!

Northampton Saints can today confirm that coach Ian Vass has left the Club by mutual consent.
The 41-year-old joined the coaching set-up at cinch Stadium at Franklin’s Gardens in January 2020, looking after Saints’ defence, and has helped to guide the men in Black, Green and Gold to two Gallagher Premiership semi-finals in three seasons.

https://www.northamptonsaints.co.uk/ne ... saints

Turned to Rugby League for their new defence coach.

Former Castleford Tigers rugby league coach Lee Radford is switching codes to join Northampton Saints.
Radford will help replace Ian Vass as a defence coach at Franklin's Gardens.
The 44-year-old left Cas in March after a spell of almost two years in charge, having previously coached Hull FC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/66087331

[Oxbow]

Can't say I've heard of him, guess Saints are hoping he's the next Shaun Edwards. He'd have a hard job making the defence any worse at least.

[Kawazaki]

Turned to Rugby League for their new defence coach.

Former Castleford Tigers rugby league coach Lee Radford is switching codes to join Northampton Saints.
Radford will help replace Ian Vass as a defence coach at Franklin's Gardens.
The 44-year-old left Cas in March after a spell of almost two years in charge, having previously coached Hull FC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/66087331

Bookmark this prediction:

Northampton will give away a huge increase in the number of penalties they concede.
Northampton will get many more yellow cards.
Northampton will get lots more red cards for head on head collisions.

[SaintK]

Turned to Rugby League for their new defence coach.

Former Castleford Tigers rugby league coach Lee Radford is switching codes to join Northampton Saints.
Radford will help replace Ian Vass as a defence coach at Franklin's Gardens.
The 44-year-old left Cas in March after a spell of almost two years in charge, having previously coached Hull FC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/66087331

Bookmark this prediction:

Northampton will give away a huge increase in the number of penalties they concede.
Northampton will get many more yellow cards.
Northampton will get lots more red cards for head on head collisions.

bloody well hope not!!!

[Kawazaki]

Turned to Rugby League for their new defence coach.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/66087331

Bookmark this prediction:

Northampton will give away a huge increase in the number of penalties they concede.
Northampton will get many more yellow cards.
Northampton will get lots more red cards for head on head collisions.

bloody well hope not!!!

They're giving defence coaching duties to a complete RU rookie just as referees are getting much tougher on RL style upright tackling.

This is a doozy to predict.

[Raggs]

Bookmark this prediction:

Northampton will give away a huge increase in the number of penalties they concede.
Northampton will get many more yellow cards.
Northampton will get lots more red cards for head on head collisions.

bloody well hope not!!!

They're giving defence coaching duties to a complete RU rookie just as referees are getting much tougher on RL style upright tackling.

This is a doozy to predict.

There's a chance as he's coming from the other brand, he might adapt faster, rather than be stuck in his ways like the others.



Probably not, but still.

[Sandstorm]

Bookmark this prediction:

Northampton will give away a huge increase in the number of penalties they concede.
Northampton will get many more yellow cards.
Northampton will get lots more red cards for head on head collisions.

bloody well hope not!!!

They're giving defence coaching duties to a complete RU rookie just as referees are getting much tougher on RL style upright tackling.

This is a doozy to predict.

My first thought too.

[SaintK]

bloody well hope not!!!

They're giving defence coaching duties to a complete RU rookie just as referees are getting much tougher on RL style upright tackling.

This is a doozy to predict.

There's a chance as he's coming from the other brand, he might adapt faster, rather than be stuck in his ways like the others.



Probably not, but still.

Sinfield appeared to adapt quickly enough at Tigers so fingers crossed for Saints!!!

[Brazil]

Lee Radford's got a terrible track record in RL. Hull FC sacked him live on telly, and he presided over a lousy culture at Castleford until they ditched him as well. He might be alright in a secondary role, but I'd not be confident.

[SaintK]

Lee Radford's got a terrible track record in RL. Hull FC sacked him live on telly, and he presided over a lousy culture at Castleford until they ditched him as well. He might be alright in a secondary role, but I'd not be confident.

Bloody hell!!!!!

[JM2K6]

Lee Radford's got a terrible track record in RL. Hull FC sacked him live on telly, and he presided over a lousy culture at Castleford until they ditched him as well. He might be alright in a secondary role, but I'd not be confident.

With him, Gleeson, and a few others... RL must be pissing themselves at how easily shit-tier coaches get high profile jobs with their big brother

[Brazil]

Lee Radford's got a terrible track record in RL. Hull FC sacked him live on telly, and he presided over a lousy culture at Castleford until they ditched him as well. He might be alright in a secondary role, but I'd not be confident.

With him, Gleeson, and a few others... RL must be pissing themselves at how easily shit-tier coaches get high profile jobs with their big brother

Speaking as a Warrington fan, if somebody could send Daryl Powell's CV to Uncle Bruce or Lansdown, then that would be just marvellous.

[SaintK]

Cinti has joined them too. Seems like a classy operator.

Yeah, Cinti's understated but very good. Part of a settled back three for much of this season with Loader and OHC. Decent athlete and very strong aerially.

Gloucester picked up a bunch of youngsters yesterday. That lad from IoW Raggs was on about (Taylor - 18), your favourite ginger 9 (Englefield - 23), Dykes (21), Fasogbon (18) and Donnell (22). Not surprising given Skivs and James Lightfoot Brown being there. These are all kids they'll have worked with.

Still some decent players available. Confirmed signings below. The two Aussie locks, Arundell and White seem to all be France bound if the press are to be believed. Loader likely going to the stormers. Collins and WGX possibly to Ealing and Rogerson rumoured to Leicester. Still some really good Academy kids available, with Allan and Bradbury (who's injured) probably the pick. Of the senior guys, I assume players like Gonzales and Fischetti have something lined up. Kyle Rowe is fit again has a big upside for anyone willing to to take a chance on him and I'm sure Basham will get a gig somewhere.

Ben Atkins
Matt Cornish
Agustín Creevy
Ignacio Ruiz
Lovejoy Chawatama - Harlequins
Luke Green
Ciaran Parker
Danilo Fischetti
Will Goodrick-Clarke
Ollie Hoskins - Saracens
Josh Caulfield - Bristol
Adam Coleman
Chunya Munga - Northampton
Api Ratuniyarawa
Ed Scragg
Josh Basham
Ben Donnell - Gloucester
Jack Cooke
So'otala Fa'aso'o - Perpignan
Juan Martín González
Izaia Moore-Aiono
Tom Pearson - Northampton
Matt Rogerson (c)
Josh Smart
Caolan Englefield - Gloucester
Joe Powell
Ben White
Jacob Atkins
Paddy Jackson - Lyon
Rory Jennings - Newcastle
Tom Hitchock
Benhard Janse van Rensburg - Bristol
Will Joseph - Harlequins
Luca Morisi
Eddie Poolman
Matt Williams
Ben Loader
Lucio Cinti - Saracens
Henry Arundell
Kyle Rowe
Tom Collins
Michael Dykes - Gloucester

Calum Scott
Joe Vajner
Afolabi Fasogbon - Gloucester
Tarek Haffar - Northampton
Mikey Summerfield
Chandler Cunningham-South - Harlequins
Jarlath Gleeson
Lucas Brooke
Ollie Allan
Monty Bradbury
Conor Cross
Jake Shortland
Jack Walsh
Alexander Harmes
Ralph McEachran
Rory Taylor - Gloucester
Finn Worley Brady
Toby Maddock
Charlie Moss

Joe Powell and Matt Rogerson have signed for Tigers

[Margin__Walker]

Yeah, a few more signings here and there. Powell was terrible last season, for a player with a decent pedigree. McKeller will know him well though and I guess he'll be third choice at Leicester anyway.

Ben Atkins - Rams
Matt Cornish
Agustín Creevy - Sale
Ignacio Ruiz
Lovejoy Chawatama - Harlequins
Luke Green
Ciaran Parker
Danilo Fischetti
Will Goodrick-Clarke
Ollie Hoskins - Saracens
Josh Caulfield - Bristol
Adam Coleman
Chunya Munga - Northampton
Api Ratuniyarawa
Ed Scragg - Scarlets
Josh Basham
Ben Donnell - Gloucester
Jack Cooke
So'otala Fa'aso'o - Perpignan
Juan Martín González
Izaia Moore-Aiono
Tom Pearson - Northampton
Matt Rogerson (c)- Leicester
Josh Smart
Caolan Englefield - Gloucester
Joe Powell - Leicester
Ben White - Toulon
Jacob Atkins - Rovigo
Paddy Jackson - Lyon
Rory Jennings - Newcastle
Tom Hitchcock
Benhard Janse van Rensburg - Bristol
Will Joseph - Harlequins
Luca Morisi
Eddie Poolman
Matt Williams
Ben Loader
Lucio Cinti - Saracens
Henry Arundell - Racing 92
Kyle Rowe
Tom Collins
Michael Dykes - Gloucester

Calum Scott
Joe Vajner
Afolabi Fasogbon - Gloucester
Tarek Haffar - Northampton
Mikey Summerfield
Chandler Cunningham-South - Harlequins
Jarlath Gleeson
Lucas Brooke
Ollie Allan - Leicester
Monty Bradbury
Conor Cross
Jake Shortland
Jack Walsh
Alexander Harmes
Ralph McEachran
Rory Taylor - Gloucester
Finn Worley Brady
Toby Maddock
Charlie Moss

[Sinkers]

Couple of quick questions:
- that’s around 35 players still to find contracts in that list. Although they would have been on the market for longer, can we take that as roughly representative for wasps and Worcester also? So around 80-90 players gone? Very sad if so.
- what would someone like Josh Basham’s prospects be? He played a chunk of his junior rugby here and can’t be more than mid-20s I think. Plus was an U20s rep?

[SaintK]

Couple of quick questions:
- that’s around 35 players still to find contracts in that list. Although they would have been on the market for longer, can we take that as roughly representative for wasps and Worcester also? So around 80-90 players gone? Very sad if so.
- what would someone like Josh Basham’s prospects be? He played a chunk of his junior rugby here and can’t be more than mid-20s I think. Plus was an U20s rep?

I'm very surprised that Gonzales and Fischetti haven't been signed up somewhere

[Margin__Walker]

Couple of quick questions:
- that’s around 35 players still to find contracts in that list. Although they would have been on the market for longer, can we take that as roughly representative for wasps and Worcester also? So around 80-90 players gone? Very sad if so.
- what would someone like Josh Basham’s prospects be? He played a chunk of his junior rugby here and can’t be more than mid-20s I think. Plus was an U20s rep?

Not sure on the overall Wasps and Worcester lists. Would be interesting to see where the fringe players ended up.

The list above just has confirmed signings, so you'll have players in there not listed as such that have actually picked up contracts according to press reports. Simmons, Coleman, Loader, Collins etc.

Basham will pick something up, I'd expect. He'd be ahead of other unsigned back rows like Moore-Aiono, Smart and Cooke on that list in terms of stature.

[Margin__Walker]

Couple of quick questions:
- that’s around 35 players still to find contracts in that list. Although they would have been on the market for longer, can we take that as roughly representative for wasps and Worcester also? So around 80-90 players gone? Very sad if so.
- what would someone like Josh Basham’s prospects be? He played a chunk of his junior rugby here and can’t be more than mid-20s I think. Plus was an U20s rep?

I'm very surprised that Gonzales and Fischetti haven't been signed up somewhere

They probably have been tbf. Just not public yet.

[Sinkers]

Thanks.
Still pretty grim but maybe not at bad as I thought it might be just looking at the list.

[sockwithaticket]

Thanks.
Still pretty grim but maybe not at bad as I thought it might be just looking at the list.

There were 100 players released without contracts before Wasps and Worcester went under.

It's definitely going to be grim out there for senior academy and squad players.

In fact, if you look at the premiership transfers for 23/24, there's a lot of English squad and academy guys in the 'Out' column wiht no club attached:

https://all.rugby/transfers/premiership

[Hal Jordan]

Lee Radford's got a terrible track record in RL. Hull FC sacked him live on telly, and he presided over a lousy culture at Castleford until they ditched him as well. He might be alright in a secondary role, but I'd not be confident.

With him, Gleeson, and a few others... RL must be pissing themselves at how easily shit-tier coaches get high profile jobs with their big brother

Everyone's trying to find the next Sean Edwards, and the fact no one has shows what a one-off freak he is.

[sockwithaticket]

To satisfy my own curiosity as much as anything this is where Wasps players will be for 23/24 as far as I can tell:

Biyi Alo - Ealing
Charlie Atkinson - Leicester
Alfie Barbeary - Bath
Josh Bassett - Leicester
Alfie Bell - Exeter
Tim Cardall - Newcastle
Nizaam Carr - Bulls
Ali Crossdale - Perpignan
Tom Cruse - Northampton
Kieran Curran - Bedford
Cam Dodson - Aurilliac
Immanuel Feyi-Waboso - Exeter
Greg Fisilau - Exeter
Dan Frost - Exeter
Ben Harris - unknown
Olly Hartley - Saracens
Will Haydon-Wood - Exeter
Robin Hislop - Edinburgh
Francois Hougaard - Saracens( He's not on their leavers list per All Rugby, but I can't find anything about him signing beyond the end of 22/23)
Zach Kibirige - unknown (played for Western Force for the '23 Super Rugby season, but can't see anything indicating that was ever meant to be for more than this season)
Vincent Koch - Stade Francais
Joe Launchbury - Harlequins
Rekeiti Ma'assi-White - Sale
Rodrigo Martinez - unknown
Archie McArthur -Gloucester
Kiran McDonald - Newcastle
Luke Mehson - London Scottish
Elliott Millar-Mills - Northampton
Ryan Mills - unknown
Matteo Minnozzi - Benetton
Ben Morris - unknown
Zac Nearchou - unknown
Burger Odendaal - Northampton
Paolo Odogwu - Benetton
Gabriel Oghre - Bordeaux
Asher Opoku - Sale
Will Porter - Harlequins
Dan Robson - Pau
John Ryan - Munster
Brad Shields - Hurricanes
Will Simonds - London Scottish
Sam Spink - Western Force
Pietro Turrisi - Racing
Jacob Umaga - Benetton
Theo Vukasinovic - unknown
Tom West - Saracens
Jack Willis - Toulouse
Tom Willis - Saracens
Sam Wolstenholme - Bristol


It's encouraging that most have landed on their feet, but there's a non negligible number playing second division rugby or without something.

[Sinkers]

Spink has looked impressive in the couple of Force games I’ve watched.

[Hal Jordan]

Charlie Matthews has fetched up.at Biarritz, nice place to wind down your career.

[sockwithaticket]

Spink has looked impressive in the couple of Force games I’ve watched.

He was starting the really look the business at Wasps, was keeping Odogwu on the bench or wing instead of in the 13 shirt that had been identified as his long term future. Good to hear he's still cooking down under.

[Raggs]

I hope come the world cup we're seriously looking at Willis and Curry on the flanks. I know that can leave us a little lighter at the lineout, but the fact it'll force teams to commit to the rucks and hopefully regularly slow play down, if not get turnovers, will help us.

Great examples today from SA and NZ of what happens when you let them even get just a few fast phases strung together.

[SaintK]

So yet another experienced squad mamber on their way out of Exeter. You can add scrum half Jack Maunder who has played140+ times for Chiefs and is on his way to play Super Rugby in Australia
Not sure whatBaxter is trying to do but having lost a raft of experienced players he has actually ony signed 3 replacements, centre Joe Hawkins, backrower Ethan Roots both from Ospreys and fly-half Will Haydon-Wood from Falcons.
Would have thought there might have been a few experienced heads from L Irish heading down there?

[Raggs]

So yet another experienced squad mamber on their way out of Exeter. You can add scrum half Jack Maunder who has played140+ times for Chiefs and is on his way to play Super Rugby in Australia
Not sure whatBaxter is trying to do but having lost a raft of experienced players he has actually ony signed 3 replacements, centre Joe Hawkins, backrower Ethan Roots both from Ospreys and fly-half Will Haydon-Wood from Falcons.
Would have thought there might have been a few experienced heads from L Irish heading down there?

At first I figured it was just them keeping under the cap, letting some big names go. Now it seems like either a massive cost cutting exercise, or something rotten.

[sockwithaticket]

While he's fairly experienced, is Maunder much of a loss? His younger brother, who's staying, is the better player of the two and has started more games of late iirc.

In context of the Exeter exodus it maybe looks bad, but they've already lost so many of their more experienced players, what's one more? It just means their rebuild will be truly starting from basically the ground up.

[sockwithaticket]

So yet another experienced squad mamber on their way out of Exeter. You can add scrum half Jack Maunder who has played140+ times for Chiefs and is on his way to play Super Rugby in Australia
Not sure whatBaxter is trying to do but having lost a raft of experienced players he has actually ony signed 3 replacements, centre Joe Hawkins, backrower Ethan Roots both from Ospreys and fly-half Will Haydon-Wood from Falcons.
Would have thought there might have been a few experienced heads from L Irish heading down there?

At first I figured it was just them keeping under the cap, letting some big names go. Now it seems like either a massive cost cutting exercise, or something rotten.

Certainly in his case, with the number of retirements and experienced players going elsewhere he might just have thought it's as good an opportunity as any to go off and experience playing rugby somewhere else.

[SaintK]

So yet another experienced squad mamber on their way out of Exeter. You can add scrum half Jack Maunder who has played140+ times for Chiefs and is on his way to play Super Rugby in Australia
Not sure whatBaxter is trying to do but having lost a raft of experienced players he has actually ony signed 3 replacements, centre Joe Hawkins, backrower Ethan Roots both from Ospreys and fly-half Will Haydon-Wood from Falcons.
Would have thought there might have been a few experienced heads from L Irish heading down there?

At first I figured it was just them keeping under the cap, letting some big names go. Now it seems like either a massive cost cutting exercise, or something rotten.

A mate spoke to Sam Skinner shortly after he moved to Scotland. Reckoned that things were getting a bit stale and same old same old in training and game plan. He said that the coaching set up probably needed a refresh.
Some of the players moving on have been there for years and now want something new and different

[Raggs]

So yet another experienced squad mamber on their way out of Exeter. You can add scrum half Jack Maunder who has played140+ times for Chiefs and is on his way to play Super Rugby in Australia
Not sure whatBaxter is trying to do but having lost a raft of experienced players he has actually ony signed 3 replacements, centre Joe Hawkins, backrower Ethan Roots both from Ospreys and fly-half Will Haydon-Wood from Falcons.
Would have thought there might have been a few experienced heads from L Irish heading down there?

At first I figured it was just them keeping under the cap, letting some big names go. Now it seems like either a massive cost cutting exercise, or something rotten.

A mate spoke to Sam Skinner shortly after he moved to Scotland. Reckoned that things were getting a bit stale and same old same old in training and game plan. He said that the coaching set up probably needed a refresh.
Some of the players moving on have been there for years and now want something new and different

Yeah, but I'd sort of expect maybe 8-12 in that situation, not half the squad, especially with so few signings then announced.

[JM2K6]

While he's fairly experienced, is Maunder much of a loss? His younger brother, who's staying, is the better player of the two and has started more games of late iirc.

In context of the Exeter exodus it maybe looks bad, but they've already lost so many of their more experienced players, what's one more? It just means their rebuild will be truly starting from basically the ground up.

Yes, exactly. Jack Maunder has been a huge part of Exeter's issues over the past few years. He simply wasn't good enough and was one major reason why Exeter struggled so much when Nic White left.

[Hal Jordan]

I hope come the world cup we're seriously looking at Willis and Curry on the flanks. I know that can leave us a little lighter at the lineout, but the fact it'll force teams to commit to the rucks and hopefully regularly slow play down, if not get turnovers, will help us.

Great examples today from SA and NZ of what happens when you let them even get just a few fast phases strung together.

It will be Lawes at 6 if fit, if not a substitute in similar lineout ability.

[Kawazaki]

Should have asked this earlier but did anyone else snigger when they saw the result of Eddiot's first match against South Africa's B team?

[Raggs]

I hope come the world cup we're seriously looking at Willis and Curry on the flanks. I know that can leave us a little lighter at the lineout, but the fact it'll force teams to commit to the rucks and hopefully regularly slow play down, if not get turnovers, will help us.

Great examples today from SA and NZ of what happens when you let them even get just a few fast phases strung together.

It will be Lawes at 6 if fit, if not a substitute in similar lineout ability.

Yeah I know, and whilst he's turned into a good international quality 6, I still think Curry/Willis would be a little bit special.

[petej]

Should have asked this earlier but did anyone else snigger when they saw the result of Eddiot's first match against South Africa's B team?

I was amused. Eddie had a decent crop of England players coming into their prime when he took over. I doubt this Australian lot are as good. Part of the reason 2015 pissed me off so much was that Lancaster bottled it so badly (though this might be part of Lancasters MO at times considering leinster failing to win trophies this year).

[Sinkers]

If he was a more likable fellow you might almost have some sympathy for him, taking over so close to the World Cup and all.
But he’s not a likable fellow at all plus he’s got yet another golden opportunity to take over another coach’s 3/4 finished project and claim all the glory without all the effort. So f&ck him!

As an aside, over the years I’ve met quite a few blokes from that eastern Sydney rugby crowd and with only one exception they are a bunch of arrogant parochial pricks who are pretty much wrong about everything to do with rugby in general

[sockwithaticket]

I must admit I had a cackle upon seeing yesterday's result. Dave Rennie probably did too.

Obviously they've been our bunnies for a little while, but when making these appointments you've really got to look further than who's been beating your side consistently in isolation, so I really can't fathom why Australia thought bringing Eddie in would be a positive for them.