The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Biffer]

I see Toony was trying to semi excuse Zamders brain fart but having watched it a few times again this morning, there really is no mitigation, absolutely stupid and dangerous

Also, thought the new way of dealing with it worked really well and will save us some Irish crowd drama

That is GT playing defence on public relations. It was stupid and unnecessary. I don't think it was as bad as the French player made it.

Should be a 6 week entry point and wouldn't be surprised either way if they bring it down to 3/4 or leave at 6.

He got six reduced to four last time. It’ll be five or six weeks this time. But they might decide that’s games. Which means he misses three of the four pool games.

[Slick]

I see Toony was trying to semi excuse Zamders brain fart but having watched it a few times again this morning, there really is no mitigation, absolutely stupid and dangerous

Also, thought the new way of dealing with it worked really well and will save us some Irish crowd drama

That is GT playing defence on public relations. It was stupid and unnecessary. I don't think it was as bad as the French player made it.

Should be a 6 week entry point and wouldn't be surprised either way if they bring it down to 3/4 or leave at 6.

Yes, of course. Thing is, you could see him getting wound up earlier in the game and if he is losing it in a warm up match it doesn’t bode well

[Big D]

I see Toony was trying to semi excuse Zamders brain fart but having watched it a few times again this morning, there really is no mitigation, absolutely stupid and dangerous

Also, thought the new way of dealing with it worked really well and will save us some Irish crowd drama

That is GT playing defence on public relations. It was stupid and unnecessary. I don't think it was as bad as the French player made it.

Should be a 6 week entry point and wouldn't be surprised either way if they bring it down to 3/4 or leave at 6.

He got six reduced to four last time. It’ll be five or six weeks this time. But they might decide that’s games. Which means he misses three of the four pool games.

IIIRC they tool a punt and didn't admit guilt last time as the difference between 4 and 6 weeks didn't matter for gametime.

This time it'll be the full mea culpa, tears, snotters and sending them biscuits in the mail for their meeting to get the ban reduced.

[Biffer]

That is GT playing defence on public relations. It was stupid and unnecessary. I don't think it was as bad as the French player made it.

Should be a 6 week entry point and wouldn't be surprised either way if they bring it down to 3/4 or leave at 6.

He got six reduced to four last time. It’ll be five or six weeks this time. But they might decide that’s games. Which means he misses three of the four pool games.

IIIRC they tool a punt and didn't admit guilt last time as the difference between 4 and 6 weeks didn't matter for gametime.

This time it'll be the full mea culpa, tears, snotters and sending them biscuits in the mail for their meeting to get the ban reduced.

Yeah, but previous ban means less reduction.

[C T]

He got six reduced to four last time. It’ll be five or six weeks this time. But they might decide that’s games. Which means he misses three of the four pool games.

IIIRC they tool a punt and didn't admit guilt last time as the difference between 4 and 6 weeks didn't matter for gametime.

This time it'll be the full mea culpa, tears, snotters and sending them biscuits in the mail for their meeting to get the ban reduced.

Yeah, but previous ban means less reduction.

I'm not very keen to try and defend Zander here, but the two events were a little different.

Last time he charged in like a steam train from 10 meters out and launched himself like superman.

This time he did appear to ever so slightly put the breaks on, adjust himself a tiny bit before firing in like a torpedo.

Can't see any of this helping very much, nor do I think it should really. It was really really thick. Odd though, in interviews he seems really quite sensible.

[C T]

Does anyone have any knowledge on who the lady is that the camera zooms in on at the end of the national anthem?

Seems to happen regardless of what channel it's on.

The wife and I have been mentioning it for years now.

[Big D]

He got six reduced to four last time. It’ll be five or six weeks this time. But they might decide that’s games. Which means he misses three of the four pool games.

IIIRC they tool a punt and didn't admit guilt last time as the difference between 4 and 6 weeks didn't matter for gametime.

This time it'll be the full mea culpa, tears, snotters and sending them biscuits in the mail for their meeting to get the ban reduced.

Yeah, but previous ban means less reduction.

I honestly can't remember the last time there wasn't some mitigation applied to bans. Either way his next game will be in the WC after 50odd minutes of gametime. Not ideal.

[Biffer]

Hastings, McDowell, Rowe and Henderson released from the squad back to their clubs.

[Big D]

Hastings, McDowell, Rowe and Henderson released from the squad back to their clubs.

So hooker, prop, back row and 9 still to be cut?

[Biffer]

Hastings, McDowell, Rowe and Henderson released from the squad back to their clubs.

So hooker, prop, back row and 9 still to be cut?

Scrum half will depend on how bad Ben Whites injury is. I think McInally will lose out at hooker. Prop might depend on Fagerson’s ban..

[westport]

Hastings, McDowell, Rowe and Henderson released from the squad back to their clubs.

So hooker, prop, back row and 9 still to be cut?

Scrum half will depend on how bad Ben Whites injury is. I think McInally will lose out at hooker. Prop might depend on Fagerson’s ban..

Townsend said yesterday that he wasn't too worried about Ben's injury

[Big D]

Feel sorry for Hastings. Wonder if that is partly due to fitness a he didn't get a look either week.

[KingBlairhorn]

Surprised that lot haven’t been kept for the Georgia game. I would be trying to shield as many first 15s from that game as possible.

[Yr Alban]

So what happens if Zander cops a long ban? Do we start with Nel and bring Murphy Walker off the bench?

I would be shocked if it is longer than 6 weeks.

Based on last week Murphy might not make the squad.

I thought Murphy went well last week? I’ve been away on holiday so I haven’t seen any of the games.

I have to say that the citing process annoys me in these situations. The upgrade to red now means not just that we’re down to 14 for the rest of the game, but that we lose the player for possibly several matches as well. It feels very much like being punished twice, for an event the referee didn’t think merited a red card in the first place.

[Big D]

So what happens if Zander cops a long ban? Do we start with Nel and bring Murphy Walker off the bench?

I would be shocked if it is longer than 6 weeks.

Based on last week Murphy might not make the squad.

I thought Murphy went well last week? I’ve been away on holiday so I haven’t seen any of the games.

I have to say that the citing process annoys me in these situations. The upgrade to red now means not just that we’re down to 14 for the rest of the game, but that we lose the player for possibly several matches as well. It feels very much like being punished twice, for an event the referee didn’t think merited a red card in the first place.

I thought Sebastien was stronger last week particularly set pi3ce. Those two are in a straight shoot out for the 3rd TH role.

The ref followed the protocol for the "bunker". Look at it twice and if clearly a yellow then off they go and an official will review if it is a red. The ref would have sent him off if he spent longer looking at it. I thought it worked well as it kept the game flowing. Caught the production team out who initially had Russell as being the one red carded!!

[Slick]

So what happens if Zander cops a long ban? Do we start with Nel and bring Murphy Walker off the bench?

I would be shocked if it is longer than 6 weeks.

Based on last week Murphy might not make the squad.

I thought Murphy went well last week? I’ve been away on holiday so I haven’t seen any of the games.

I have to say that the citing process annoys me in these situations. The upgrade to red now means not just that we’re down to 14 for the rest of the game, but that we lose the player for possibly several matches as well. It feels very much like being punished twice, for an event the referee didn’t think merited a red card in the first place.

Sorry mate, bit in the nicest possible way, this post couldn’t be more wrong

[Yr Alban]

I would be shocked if it is longer than 6 weeks.

Based on last week Murphy might not make the squad.

I thought Murphy went well last week? I’ve been away on holiday so I haven’t seen any of the games.

I have to say that the citing process annoys me in these situations. The upgrade to red now means not just that we’re down to 14 for the rest of the game, but that we lose the player for possibly several matches as well. It feels very much like being punished twice, for an event the referee didn’t think merited a red card in the first place.

Sorry mate, bit in the nicest possible way, this post couldn’t be more wrong

Hey, I didn’t see the game, much less the incident, and I’m currently in California. So it’s entirely possible, and I’m not going to take any offence!

[Tichtheid]

@Yr Alban, the way the process works is that if the ref decides an incident reaches a yellow card threshold the played is sent to the bin.

The TMO then goes over the incident whilst the fame goes on, without crowd involvement.
The TMO can decide that yellow is sufficient and the player comes back on after that period or they decide a red card is warranted

I think it’s a much better process and keeps the game going

[I like neeps]

Hastings, McDowell, Rowe and Henderson released from the squad back to their clubs.

Genuinely surprised by Henderson. He looks the real deal for Leicester. Didn't catch the game Vs Italy so maybe he didn't perform? Or maybe he was just a camp body as they say.

[Yr Alban]

@Yr Alban, the way the process works is that if the ref decides an incident reaches a yellow card threshold the played is sent to the bin.

The TMO then goes over the incident whilst the fame goes on, without crowd involvement.
The TMO can decide that yellow is sufficient and the player comes back on after that period or they decide a red card is warranted

I think it’s a much better process and keeps the game going

Yes, I get that. It’s a better system, no doubt.

[Big D]

Hastings, McDowell, Rowe and Henderson released from the squad back to their clubs.

Genuinely surprised by Henderson. He looks the real deal for Leicester. Didn't catch the game Vs Italy so maybe he didn't perform? Or maybe he was just a camp body as they say.

I suspect it is to allow them to take an extra back row which I feel is an error as it means Gray or GG will play every game.

[Tichtheid]

Hastings, McDowell, Rowe and Henderson released from the squad back to their clubs.

Genuinely surprised by Henderson. He looks the real deal for Leicester. Didn't catch the game Vs Italy so maybe he didn't perform? Or maybe he was just a camp body as they say.

I suspect it is to allow them to take an extra back row which I feel is an error as it means Gray or GG will play every game.

We've taken four locks to every World Cup since 1991 when the squads were tiny, bar 2003 when we had Jason White listed as a flanker, but was every bit as good at lock.

[Jock42]

I know it's probably been discussed before but what we thinking?

6 Props
4 2nd row
6 Back row

3 SH
2 FH
4 Centres
6 Back 3

[Jock42]

If you take Skinner as a back row that's 5 and 5 essentially and King Blair obviously as 3rd FH.

[Biffer]

If you take Skinner as a back row that's 5 and 5 essentially and King Blair obviously as 3rd FH.

That’s what I was thinking, Skinner expands your options.

[Biffer]

I know it's probably been discussed before but what we thinking?

6 Props
4 2nd row
6 Back row

3 SH
2 FH
4 Centres
6 Back 3

No hookers is a brave approach mind.

[Big D]

Genuinely surprised by Henderson. He looks the real deal for Leicester. Didn't catch the game Vs Italy so maybe he didn't perform? Or maybe he was just a camp body as they say.

I suspect it is to allow them to take an extra back row which I feel is an error as it means Gray or GG will play every game.

We've taken four locks to every World Cup since 1991 when the squads were tiny, bar 2003 when we had Jason White listed as a flanker, but was every bit as good at lock.

Reason i think it is an error is our two starting locks are 33 and 34 at the start of the world cup. If we be generous and think we make the QF that week be 4 straight weeks of games for one of them with 5 in 6. Which is a big workload for them given the opponents

Because Skinner and Cummings can operate as break glass in emergency 6s gives the flexibility to carry an "extra" second row rather than 6 out and out back rows.

I'd have went with Ritchie, Fagerson, Dempsey, Darge plus one of Crosbie, Christie and Bayliss.

[Jock42]

I know it's probably been discussed before but what we thinking?

6 Props
4 2nd row
6 Back row

3 SH
2 FH
4 Centres
6 Back 3

No hookers is a brave approach mind.

3 hookers
5 back 3

[Tichtheid]

I suspect it is to allow them to take an extra back row which I feel is an error as it means Gray or GG will play every game.

We've taken four locks to every World Cup since 1991 when the squads were tiny, bar 2003 when we had Jason White listed as a flanker, but was every bit as good at lock.

Reason i think it is an error is our two starting locks are 33 and 34 at the start of the world cup. If we be generous and think we make the QF that week be 4 straight weeks of games for one of them with 5 in 6. Which is a big workload for them given the opponents

Because Skinner and Cummings can operate as break glass in emergency 6s gives the flexibility to carry an "extra" second row rather than 6 out and out back rows.

I'd have went with Ritchie, Fagerson, Dempsey, Darge plus one of Crosbie, Christie and Bayliss.

This is assuming no injuries, there is a month between the SA and Ire games, we can bench Gray for the Romania game and Gilcho for the Tonga game or vice versa if over-playing them is a concern. Personally I thought they both look in good nick

On that note it was interesting to read Toonie’s comments about WP Nel, saying he’s in better shape than he has been for years, he was certainly making his tackles at the weekend as well as showing he’s still our best scrummaging tighthead
For all the comments about Zander, we will miss his good work at the breakdown and the hard yards carries, I say that whilst not ignoring the bad stuff

[clydecloggie]

Finally home from a long weekend of action at Murrayfield and the Mur de Montrose.

Some randomish observations:

1) Scotland were playing well within themselves in terms of set moves and training ground plays. In the backs, almost the entire game was spent doing short passes and standard positional changes, nothing flash about it - I certainly picked up vibes of keeping the powder dry and not giving the green teams analysts information they don't need.

2) Having said that, at one of the penalties George Horne went all the way to the opposite touch line, with no other player (French or Scottish) within 30 metres of him. Expect a last-second directional-switch in-field cross-kick on a penalty at some point in the World Cup with a speedster trying to catch the opposition out and score the try.

3) The defensive alignment and positioning in the first half was absolutely woeful. The French created overlaps and mismatches at will. First-game rust perhaps, but worrying all the same.

4) I was impressed by Captain Russell. Marshalled his troops well, was constantly coaching his back line and wasn't shy to walk up to the ref and have a word. I wouldn't mind at all if he keeps the job.

5) Rory Darge should be first-choice 7. His energy around the field is a notch up from current-vintage Hamish Watson.

5) Ben O'Keeffe is the quiet type. Went to Murrayfield with two refs (including my son) so got the ref mic earpieces - what a waste of money as O'Keeffe doesn't coach players at all and barely says anything. Which I found very refreshing but the refs next to me disagreed.

6) Mathieu van der Poel is God.

7) I sincerely apologise for the behaviour of my Dutch compatriots in Glasgow on Sunday. What a boorish lot. I feel very fortunate to be able to call another country my home too so I can semi-legitimately disassociate myself from them.

[Biffer]

7) I sincerely apologise for the behaviour of my Dutch compatriots in Glasgow on Sunday. What a boorish lot. I feel very fortunate to be able to call another country my home too so I can semi-legitimately disassociate myself from them.

?

Was there bad behaviour? Didn't see anything on tv or reported. Mur de Montrose looked bonkers.

[KingBlairhorn]

Hastings, McDowell, Rowe and Henderson released from the squad back to their clubs.

Genuinely surprised by Henderson. He looks the real deal for Leicester. Didn't catch the game Vs Italy so maybe he didn't perform? Or maybe he was just a camp body as they say.

Absolutely not taking the piss here, but I don't think being a decent player in what is now the third best league in Europe by a considerable distance should play too much in Scotland selection discussions. The days of a Leicester player walking into any international team in the world are long gone - they are now a mid-table team in a thoroughly mediocre league.

[clydecloggie]

7) I sincerely apologise for the behaviour of my Dutch compatriots in Glasgow on Sunday. What a boorish lot. I feel very fortunate to be able to call another country my home too so I can semi-legitimately disassociate myself from them.

?

Was there bad behaviour? Didn't see anything on tv or reported. Mur de Montrose looked bonkers.

Not in the sense of full-on football hooliganism but plenty of cringeworthy 'funny' comments from orange-clad louts.

[Biffer]

7) I sincerely apologise for the behaviour of my Dutch compatriots in Glasgow on Sunday. What a boorish lot. I feel very fortunate to be able to call another country my home too so I can semi-legitimately disassociate myself from them.

?

Was there bad behaviour? Didn't see anything on tv or reported. Mur de Montrose looked bonkers.

Not in the sense of full-on football hooliganism but plenty of cringeworthy 'funny' comments from orange-clad louts.

Ah, ok. Just the Dutch being Dutch then. I like them but sometimes they're a bit odd. But then so are we.

[I like neeps]

Hastings, McDowell, Rowe and Henderson released from the squad back to their clubs.

Genuinely surprised by Henderson. He looks the real deal for Leicester. Didn't catch the game Vs Italy so maybe he didn't perform? Or maybe he was just a camp body as they say.

Absolutely not taking the piss here, but I don't think being a decent player in what is now the third best league in Europe by a considerable distance should play too much in Scotland selection discussions. The days of a Leicester player walking into any international team in the world are long gone - they are now a mid-table team in a thoroughly mediocre league.

Strange, could've sworn Leicester beat Edinburgh this year. They also won the premiership and the challenge cup the season before last. They're a good team. And whilst I do agree the premiership isn't the quality of France or the good Irish and Saffer teams - Glasgow and Edinburgh wouldn't win it so for our player pool it's a relevant comparison.

Anyway, on the player: Henderson is a dynamic, aggressive, big second row. Purely on merit I'd have him above Jonny Gray who hasn't played well for Exeter (in the same league fwiw) and Sam Skinner too who is more functional I think.

[Slick]

Genuinely surprised by Henderson. He looks the real deal for Leicester. Didn't catch the game Vs Italy so maybe he didn't perform? Or maybe he was just a camp body as they say.

Absolutely not taking the piss here, but I don't think being a decent player in what is now the third best league in Europe by a considerable distance should play too much in Scotland selection discussions. The days of a Leicester player walking into any international team in the world are long gone - they are now a mid-table team in a thoroughly mediocre league.

Strange, could've sworn Leicester beat Edinburgh this year. They also won the premiership and the challenge cup the season before last. They're a good team. And whilst I do agree the premiership isn't the quality of France or the good Irish and Saffer teams - Glasgow and Edinburgh wouldn't win it so for our player pool it's a relevant comparison.

Anyway, on the player: Henderson is a dynamic, aggressive, big second row. Purely on merit I'd have him above Jonny Gray who hasn't played well for Exeter (in the same league fwiw) and Sam Skinner too who is more functional I think.

I think this has probably come a year too soon for Henderson. If reports are correct then it sounds like he may well be a fixture for years to come. But we have pretty good 2nd row resources, so would be silly not to take advantage of that going into the WC instead of a relative punt on the new boy.

Disagree about Skinner by the way, think he is a lot more than functional.

[Big D]

Wouldn't surprise me in the least if Henderson is a starting lock come the 6N.

[robmatic]

Genuinely surprised by Henderson. He looks the real deal for Leicester. Didn't catch the game Vs Italy so maybe he didn't perform? Or maybe he was just a camp body as they say.

Absolutely not taking the piss here, but I don't think being a decent player in what is now the third best league in Europe by a considerable distance should play too much in Scotland selection discussions. The days of a Leicester player walking into any international team in the world are long gone - they are now a mid-table team in a thoroughly mediocre league.

Strange, could've sworn Leicester beat Edinburgh this year. They also won the premiership and the challenge cup the season before last. They're a good team. And whilst I do agree the premiership isn't the quality of France or the good Irish and Saffer teams - Glasgow and Edinburgh wouldn't win it so for our player pool it's a relevant comparison.

Anyway, on the player: Henderson is a dynamic, aggressive, big second row. Purely on merit I'd have him above Jonny Gray who hasn't played well for Exeter (in the same league fwiw) and Sam Skinner too who is more functional I think.

Agreed on Jonny Gray who has been underwhelming for a while now, although Henderson doesn't have all that much international experience yet so that would explain him not going to the World Cup.

[robmatic]

2) Having said that, at one of the penalties George Horne went all the way to the opposite touch line, with no other player (French or Scottish) within 30 metres of him. Expect a last-second directional-switch in-field cross-kick on a penalty at some point in the World Cup with a speedster trying to catch the opposition out and score the try.

Edinburgh did this successfully on one occasion this season, so it's definitely something in the locker.

[clydecloggie]

Wouldn't surprise me in the least if Henderson is a starting lock come the 6N.

Richie Gray will probably retire, Grant Gilchrist is getting on a bit...you'd think Scott Cummings will take a shirt and make it his own, that then leaves Skinner, Jonny Gray and Henderson to fight it out?

Bit of a bold claim that Henderson will take the shirt, but we seem to be OK in the second row for the next wee while.