The Official English Rugby Thread

[JM2K6]

I'm curious to hear from the English posters on the Smith vs Umaga debate. Which one looks more likely to fill the England 10 jersey?

In Smith's favour is that he has a high place kicking percentage. Working against him is that he has excellent awareness of space, has an eye for a gap and is good at getting a backline going.

George Ford is a really good 10.

[Oxbow]

I hear our old boy Josh Gillespie got his debut for saints this week.
Any thoughts on how he got on?

Scored a try with pretty much his first touch of the ball. Generally looked okay and more up for it than 90% of the Saints side.

[Sinkers]

Good to hear - thanks.
Upside of all those chaos is the youngsters getting a run out of two I guess.

[Un Pilier]

I'm curious to hear from the English posters on the Smith vs Umaga debate. Which one looks more likely to fill the England 10 jersey?

In Smith's favour is that he has a high place kicking percentage. Working against him is that he has excellent awareness of space, has an eye for a gap and is good at getting a backline going.

So you think those attributes have harmed George Ford?

[Hal Jordan]

Jones picked Larkham as his fly half without question and he couldn't place kick if you held a gun to his head. Jones picks a fly half to run the game, not kick points.

[sockwithaticket]

I'm curious to hear from the English posters on the Smith vs Umaga debate. Which one looks more likely to fill the England 10 jersey?

In Smith's favour is that he has a high place kicking percentage. Working against him is that he has excellent awareness of space, has an eye for a gap and is good at getting a backline going.

So you think those attributes have harmed George Ford?

Tbf, Jones has tried to drop Ford to install Farrell at 10 a few times. It does feel at times like a lack of 12 options is responsible for accidentally allowing England's best 10 to play there.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

I'm curious to hear from the English posters on the Smith vs Umaga debate. Which one looks more likely to fill the England 10 jersey?

In Smith's favour is that he has a high place kicking percentage. Working against him is that he has excellent awareness of space, has an eye for a gap and is good at getting a backline going.

So you think those attributes have harmed George Ford?

His kicking, yes. You may be forgetting Ford's two "shit the bed" kicking performances that have damaged his England career and why we have Farrell at 12. Ford missed 6 out of 7 against Wales some years back and then was nearly as bad a few games later. England have generally preferred a plodder who can kick at the expense of any other attributes.

[JM2K6]

In Smith's favour is that he has a high place kicking percentage. Working against him is that he has excellent awareness of space, has an eye for a gap and is good at getting a backline going.

So you think those attributes have harmed George Ford?

His kicking, yes. You may be forgetting Ford's two "shit the bed" kicking performances that have damaged his England career and why we have Farrell at 12. Ford missed 6 out of 7 against Wales some years back and then was nearly as bad a few games later. England have generally preferred a plodder who can kick at the expense of any other attributes.

Farrell isn't quite the dead-eye kicker his legend suggests.

Both are decent international kickers. Ford's poor returns in 2016 drag him down to 74% at international level. Farrell's at just under 80%, though he's been good in the last season or so.

[Un Pilier]

In Smith's favour is that he has a high place kicking percentage. Working against him is that he has excellent awareness of space, has an eye for a gap and is good at getting a backline going.

So you think those attributes have harmed George Ford?

His kicking, yes. You may be forgetting Ford's two "shit the bed" kicking performances that have damaged his England career and why we have Farrell at 12. Ford missed 6 out of 7 against Wales some years back and then was nearly as bad a few games later. England have generally preferred a plodder who can kick at the expense of any other attributes.

By attributes I was referring to those you mentioned, tongue in cheek no doubt, as working against young Smith. And it’s a few years now since Ford’s place kicking was flaky. In some ways, Smith reminds me of a young Ford.

[sockwithaticket]

Teams for today's early game





Looks like Bristol's 2nds vs. Wasps 1sts to me (more or less).

[Glaston]

Bristol have Irish and Leicester next up plus they have a quarter final.
Wasps have Quins (a) then Exeter, so I think Wasps really need this game and the 5 points

[Dinsdale Piranha]

So you think those attributes have harmed George Ford?

His kicking, yes. You may be forgetting Ford's two "shit the bed" kicking performances that have damaged his England career and why we have Farrell at 12. Ford missed 6 out of 7 against Wales some years back and then was nearly as bad a few games later. England have generally preferred a plodder who can kick at the expense of any other attributes.

By attributes I was referring to those you mentioned, tongue in cheek no doubt, as working against young Smith. And it’s a few years now since Ford’s place kicking was flaky. In some ways, Smith reminds me of a young Ford.

I think Ford is a significant step up from Farrell as a 10 and apart from Ford's aforementioned bad day with the boot, I don't think Farrell would get off the bench. Farrell is an unexceptional kicker but I don't recall him ever doing that badly in a game. IIRC there was a similar issue some years ago with Charlie Hodgson who finally got a start for England and looked fantastic. The next game he too missed most of his kicks and stayed on the bench from then on.

[sockwithaticket]

Bristol have Irish and Leicester next up plus they have a quarter final.
Wasps have Quins (a) then Exeter, so I think Wasps really need this game and the 5 points

Our main rival at the moment is Bath, I reckon it's between us and them for 4th spot. Be great if Sale could beat them today.

[Raggs]

Would definitely help if bath lost.

[sockwithaticket]

Hopefully that's starting as we mean to go on!

[sockwithaticket]

We've started slowly the last few games, even against the 2nds/reserves teams we've face, so two tries in the opening five minutes is a nice change of pace.

[Punter15]

BP after 17 minutes. Ruthless stuff.

Come on Sale!

[Punter15]

Good reffing, nothing in that at all.

[Raggs]

Got to give a congrats to Brookes on his massive run (beauty of a pass from Umaga), shame he wasn't ready for the cute interplay passes that came after, to be fair, he was probably blowing out of his arse by then, I would have been.

[sockwithaticket]

Got to give a congrats to Brookes on his massive run (beauty of a pass from Umaga), shame he wasn't ready for the cute interplay passes that came after, to be fair, he was probably blowing out of his arse by then, I would have been.

I was surprised by his turn of pace.

A prop in full flow with grass ahead of him is a glorious sight.

[Punter15]

Got to give a congrats to Brookes on his massive run (beauty of a pass from Umaga), shame he wasn't ready for the cute interplay passes that came after, to be fair, he was probably blowing out of his arse by then, I would have been.

I was surprised by his turn of pace.

A prop in full flow with grass ahead of him is a glorious sight.

Was waiting for the chip and chase

[sockwithaticket]

Malins is bringing them back into this and Brookes going off has weakened the scrum.

edit - "weakened scrum". Nice one, sock.

[Raggs]

Malins realised about 10 minutes ago that nothings going to get done by the rest of the team, now he's also realised that he can't even rely on them after he's made the break, and just has to do it all by himself.

Fantastic run.

[Kawazaki]

Saracens providing Bristol's best player again.

[sockwithaticket]

We need to wake up or Malins is going to claim a bonus point all by himself.

[Raggs]

How's Malins 10 play? Probably not the best game to appreciate it. Clearly a very talented and physically gifted player, but is he a 10?

[sockwithaticket]

That's a nice little nerve settler.

[Raggs]

That's surely the definition of backwards out of the hands, and momentum carrying it?

[sockwithaticket]

Obviously I think that last pass is fine...

Everything else was absolutely top notch. Kibirige's so quick.

[notfatcat]

Last pass was fine but the previous one looked clearly forward.

[Raggs]

Not that I always love the law, but a penalty try requires a yellow card if you know who offended, surely he must know who offended otherwise why did he blow?

[sockwithaticket]

Not that I always love the law, but a penalty try requires a yellow card if you know who offended, surely he must know who offended otherwise why did he blow?

Potentially not in a disintegrating scrum if it wasn't a front-rower.

[JM2K6]

Malins looks like he might almost be good enough for Bristol's 1st XV some day

[sockwithaticket]

Leuia's lucky to escape a yellow there.

[Raggs]

Leuia's lucky to escape a yellow there.

Nah, penalty only is fair there for me.

[notfatcat]

Anyone watching the east midlands cripple fight? Not sure if I should bother.

[JM2K6]

Anyone watching the east midlands cripple fight? Not sure if I should bother.

Ben Youngs is playing well and Leicester look quite well organised, so there's that.

[Raggs]

Felt like Tempest wanted them to get that one. Annoying, but less so than the BP.

[Oxbow]

Saints making Tigers look good, it's really fucking up my Sunday afternoon.

[notfatcat]

Anyone watching the east midlands cripple fight? Not sure if I should bother.

Ben Youngs is playing well and Leicester look quite well organised, so there's that.