Wales v England I

[Rhubarb & Custard]

A substitute making his debut for the last 20 minutes joining a team playing like dogshit - all the debutants deserve some sympathy for that goat fuck

Agreed. Tom Willis will come good. It just didn't put him in the driving seat or anything. Same story with Theo Dan - we all know he has the goods, no one is going to accuse him of being a talentless bottler despite that performance. It's one of those things where the malaise runs through the team, with even the good players making errors, the bad ones endless numbers of them, and the inexperienced players can't rise above it.

We're fucked for the world cup no matter what the 1st XV does against the Wales reserves next week.

Dan is a Romanian lad (another Eng poach ;¬) ) who was playing up here at Ampthill. Sadly, seeing the state of Romanian rugby, I suspect he'd have put up a better effort against the USA last night on his own.

Qualifying for Romania, even speaking pretty decent Romanian I think, certainly some, doesn't as such make him Romanian. There are for instance one or two reasons we might reasonably consider him English.

Romania have previously been in touch with him to see if he would be interested, but that wasn't anything he was looking to act on early in his career. Partly he wanted to see where he might end up vis a vis England, and partly not being an EQP as a young player trying to get into a pro squad makes things harder

[dpedin]

There are some English players who are just not good enough at international level - Cokanasiga for example whose defence is shocking - but there were plenty on the pitch are international level who could and should have done much better. Problem was the game plan to play one out rugby and kick the shit out of the ball, that's Wales's specialty and they did it better than England as they have had years of practice! Not sure what Borthwicks plan for the team is, it seems to be pick players and then ask them to play a game plan completely different to what they are used to? I am also not convinced that they are as well conditioned as they need to be, Wales looked a fitter and stronger team and lasted the 80mins better. Work to be done for England.

[LoveOfTheGame]

How did England become so poor? Atrocious ball handling.

[SaintK]

Agreed. Tom Willis will come good. It just didn't put him in the driving seat or anything. Same story with Theo Dan - we all know he has the goods, no one is going to accuse him of being a talentless bottler despite that performance. It's one of those things where the malaise runs through the team, with even the good players making errors, the bad ones endless numbers of them, and the inexperienced players can't rise above it.

We're fucked for the world cup no matter what the 1st XV does against the Wales reserves next week.

Dan is a Romanian lad (another Eng poach ;¬) ) who was playing up here at Ampthill. Sadly, seeing the state of Romanian rugby, I suspect he'd have put up a better effort against the USA last night on his own.

Qualifying for Romania, even speaking pretty decent Romanian I think, certainly some, doesn't as such make him Romanian. There are for instance one or two reasons we might reasonably consider him English.

Romania have previously been in touch with him to see if he would be interested, but that wasn't anything he was looking to act on early in his career. Partly he wanted to see where he might end up vis a vis England, and partly not being an EQP as a young player trying to get into a pro squad makes things harder

Romanian parents
Born in Herne Hill SE London
Played all his mini/junior rugby at Blackheath and school rugby at Alleynes
Saracens junior academy at 16

[Rhubarb & Custard]

We could allow it was a clammy day under the roof. It's essentially a brand new team playing, with players having their first game in weeks, and we don't know how much they were spared high intensity training ahead of a warm-up match.

That's not to excuse all, but there might be some mitigation. How we progress given the conservative thinking that seems to be in place I don't know, but things might not be as bad as the game yesterday

[inactionman]

There are some English players who are just not good enough at international level - Cokanasiga for example whose defence is shocking - but there were plenty on the pitch are international level who could and should have done much better. Problem was the game plan to play one out rugby and kick the shit out of the ball, that's Wales's specialty and they did it better than England as they have had years of practice! Not sure what Borthwicks plan for the team is, it seems to be pick players and then ask them to play a game plan completely different to what they are used to? I am also not convinced that they are as well conditioned as they need to be, Wales looked a fitter and stronger team and lasted the 80mins better. Work to be done for England.

It seems a lot of coaches get seduced by Cokanasiga's size and power, and ignore other shortcomings - such as his tendency to get caught ball watching and out of position. The issue is, we played a game that highlighted his weaknesses and all but ignored ignored his strengths.

He can be extremely effective with ball in hand - even in this game he made some half breaks in the little bits of play I caught - but these never occurred in the right places where they might influence a game. Breaking a tackle to get a few yards over the gainline isn't so game-changing in your own 22 as it is in the opponents.

Instead, we played a kicking game that never even remotely looked like troubling the Welsh, once Costelow in particular got over his collywobbles and starting fielding the kicks properly.

Rees-Zammit is just quick and little more, and Dyer - who to be fair looks decent in the limited amount of time I've seen him - is only a few caps in. Did we ever really test them, ball in hand?

[sockwithaticket]

There are some English players who are just not good enough at international level - Cokanasiga for example whose defence is shocking - but there were plenty on the pitch are international level who could and should have done much better. Problem was the game plan to play one out rugby and kick the shit out of the ball, that's Wales's specialty and they did it better than England as they have had years of practice! Not sure what Borthwicks plan for the team is, it seems to be pick players and then ask them to play a game plan completely different to what they are used to? I am also not convinced that they are as well conditioned as they need to be, Wales looked a fitter and stronger team and lasted the 80mins better. Work to be done for England.

No need to question it, you already identified the gameplan - shit, boring rugby that presents no challenge to a tier 1 team.

A few of us had serious reservations about Borthwick taking the helm given what his Leicester team were like and thus far nothing has occurred to allay those concerns.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

An odd thing is one of Borthwick's big concerns with England was the speed at which the ball was getting played. Now one hears the big concerns are around defence, whereas how we take the ball into contact, how we present, he we support/clear hasn't (seemingly) so far been addressed. There would be from yesterday the need to consider it's a brand new side and there could well be players going into the game overly fatigued from training, but it's something of a theme from day 1 so...

[Paddington Bear]

Elephant in the room is that Sinfield’s much vaunted defence has been shambolic almost every time it has been applied to international rugby

[Torquemada 1420]

Agreed. Tom Willis will come good. It just didn't put him in the driving seat or anything. Same story with Theo Dan - we all know he has the goods, no one is going to accuse him of being a talentless bottler despite that performance. It's one of those things where the malaise runs through the team, with even the good players making errors, the bad ones endless numbers of them, and the inexperienced players can't rise above it.

We're fucked for the world cup no matter what the 1st XV does against the Wales reserves next week.

Dan is a Romanian lad (another Eng poach ;¬) ) who was playing up here at Ampthill. Sadly, seeing the state of Romanian rugby, I suspect he'd have put up a better effort against the USA last night on his own.

Qualifying for Romania, even speaking pretty decent Romanian I think, certainly some, doesn't as such make him Romanian. There are for instance one or two reasons we might reasonably consider him English.

Romania have previously been in touch with him to see if he would be interested, but that wasn't anything he was looking to act on early in his career. Partly he wanted to see where he might end up vis a vis England, and partly not being an EQP as a young player trying to get into a pro squad makes things harder

I think you missed the ;¬)

[C69]

Will England be good again when a near first team easily beats a Welsh third string ?

[Hal Jordan]

Will England be good again when a near first team easily beats a Welsh third string ?

Always wanting the moral victory.

[C69]

Will England be good again when a near first team easily beats a Welsh third string ?

Always wanting the moral victory.

Not really, should be a walk in the park for England tbh

[Torquemada 1420]

Will England be good again when a near first team easily beats a Welsh third string ?

Always wanting the moral victory.

Not really, should be a walk in the park for England tbh

It will be. Eng by 5-10.

[Niegs]

Anyone else keep reading this as Wales v Edward I? Just me then? Carry on ...

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Dan is a Romanian lad (another Eng poach ;¬) ) who was playing up here at Ampthill. Sadly, seeing the state of Romanian rugby, I suspect he'd have put up a better effort against the USA last night on his own.

Qualifying for Romania, even speaking pretty decent Romanian I think, certainly some, doesn't as such make him Romanian. There are for instance one or two reasons we might reasonably consider him English.

Romania have previously been in touch with him to see if he would be interested, but that wasn't anything he was looking to act on early in his career. Partly he wanted to see where he might end up vis a vis England, and partly not being an EQP as a young player trying to get into a pro squad makes things harder

I think you missed the ;¬)

I don't happen to use emojis, indeed I'd consider their usage reasonable grounds for a death sentence, so to me that displays as semicolon and logic negation as a pairing of symbols, being next to the bracket it just looked like a typo and I paid it no heed.

[Line6 HXFX]

I love it when Wales are a no ego, nothing expected, no hope side and it is all on fitness, hunger, drive, digging deep and determination.

Wales are shit when their best team rock up, having been much vaunted in the press.. and they think they are the dogs bollocks with nothing to prove.
When they are just a bunch of scrappy little fuckers they are brilliant.

It unfortunately takes them about one and a half years of loses and humiliations, after the lions tour to get there.

[Sandstorm]

I love it when Wales are a no ego, nothing expected, no hope side and it is all on fitness, hunger, drive, digging deep and determination.

Wales are shit when their best team rock up, having been much vaunted in the press.. and they think they are the dogs bollocks with nothing to prove.
When they are just a bunch of scrappy little fuckers they are brilliant.

It unfortunately takes them about one and a half years of loses and humiliations, after the lions tour to get there.

You give up your crusade on head injuries in Rugby when Wales start winning. Strange.

[Line6 HXFX]

I love it when Wales are a no ego, nothing expected, no hope side and it is all on fitness, hunger, drive, digging deep and determination.

Wales are shit when their best team rock up, having been much vaunted in the press.. and they think they are the dogs bollocks with nothing to prove.
When they are just a bunch of scrappy little fuckers they are brilliant.

It unfortunately takes them about one and a half years of loses and humiliations, after the lions tour to get there.

You give up your crusade on head injuries in Rugby when Wales start winning. Strange.

My crusade about head injuries is still ongoing. I have fought and won many debates on this issue.
I just watch rugby now, in the same way a copper looks at certain illegal and disgusting videos.
With revulsion.

[notfatcat]

I got a ticket for this game for the privilege of being a local resident, for the princely sum of 10 quid. I will be hoping for an evening of many head injuries. All to Steve Borthwick.

[JM2K6]

I got a ticket for this game for the privilege of being a local resident, for the princely sum of 10 quid. I will be hoping for an evening of many head injuries. All to Steve Borthwick.

How will you tell

[Kawazaki]

I got a ticket for this game for the privilege of being a local resident, for the princely sum of 10 quid. I will be hoping for an evening of many head injuries. All to Steve Borthwick.

How will you tell

The voice is a usually a dead giveaway. Speech sounds laboured, drawn out, monotone and it often sounds like gibberish.

[notfatcat]

I got a ticket for this game for the privilege of being a local resident, for the princely sum of 10 quid. I will be hoping for an evening of many head injuries. All to Steve Borthwick.

How will you tell

In his post-match interview he'll sound less like Wearside Jack and more like Brian Sewell.

[Ymx]

Has this - through laziness- become the match thread?

[Stranger]

looks like it

[Torquemada 1420]

Settled in with a glass of wine. Think I'll be needing it to get through this "spectacle".

[fishfoodie]

Settled in with a glass of wine. Think I'll be needing it to get through this "spectacle".

Do you have a standby bottle of brandy when the wine ceases to dull the pain ?

[Torquemada 1420]

Settled in with a glass of wine. Think I'll be needing it to get through this "spectacle".

Do you have a standby bottle of brandy when the wine ceases to dull the pain ?

Whisky and rum. Need to stay sober enough for a game of rugby later though so it's a tough balancing act.

[Slick]

Most stadiums had more atmosphere and noise during Covid

[fishfoodie]

Most stadiums had more atmosphere and noise during Covid

[Torquemada 1420]

Has Farrell been at the pies?

[Torquemada 1420]

Most stadiums had more atmosphere and noise during Covid

I was thinking of something pithy to say along those lines but to confirm you echoed my thoughts. It's what happens when you have a crowd full of toffs.

[PCPhil]

Wales already morally won.

[Slick]

Was Earl not offside there?

[Slick]

Most stadiums had more atmosphere and noise during Covid

I was thinking of something pithy to say along those lines but to confirm you echoed my thoughts. It's what happens when you have a crowd full of toffs.

You can hear individual braying. And Itoje

[tc27]

England can't have being too shit if we back to criticism of the atmosphere.

(I actually agree it is shit at Twickenham)

[fishfoodie]

Most stadiums had more atmosphere and noise during Covid

I was thinking of something pithy to say along those lines but to confirm you echoed my thoughts. It's what happens when you have a crowd full of toffs.

You can hear individual braying. And Itoje

With a 5pm kickoff, you'd expect half the crowd to be scuttered, but I suppose with the cost of tickets, & the price of pints that isn't happening.

[Torquemada 1420]

I was thinking of something pithy to say along those lines but to confirm you echoed my thoughts. It's what happens when you have a crowd full of toffs.

You can hear individual braying. And Itoje

With a 5pm kickoff, you'd expect half the crowd to be scuttered, but I suppose with the cost of tickets, & the price of pints that isn't happening.

They can afford it.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

This is very dull.

[tc27]

Loosing the ball in contact a bit of a problem so far.