2023 Summer Nations Series

[Big D]

Springboks will have to hit the deck running against Scotland..

Under no illusions about how hard the group is for Scotland but looking forward to some intense games (hopefully).

[Marylandolorian]

My hopes for France to win the RWC took a hit.

How’s the MoM? Finn?

[charltom]

Anyone else think that, on replay, it looks like Scotland were just pretending to defend France's tries after half time...?

[Slick]

My hopes for France to win the RWC took a hit.

How’s the MoM? Finn?

Should have been, he was fantastic

[Jock42]

Who got it?

[And 1 guest]

Who got it?

Steyn

[OomStruisbaai]

France is over hyped. Scotland burst that bubble.

[clydecloggie]

France is over hyped. Scotland burst that bubble.

First game for the France first XV and they still won against the number 5 side in the world who played well (for most of the game). They didn't look too happy at the end and probably expected a better score line, especially after racing into a 27-10 lead, but they still showed proper quality.

[Slick]

France is over hyped. Scotland burst that bubble.

Here we go

[Torquemada 1420]

France is over hyped. Scotland burst that bubble.

I think there is some truth in that.

[Torquemada 1420]

Quick thoughts morning after.

Scotland
+ves
- when they get their attacking game right, they are as dangerous as anyone
- if they could play for 80 mins AND maintain some discipline, they could have a great RWC

-ves
- IF they can play for 80 mins and IF they can maintain discipline. Not managed that in a long time.
- can be rightly peeved at a draw that gives the likes of Eng, Wal and Aus an easy ride and Sco the reverse.

France
+ves
- not too many these 2 games tbh bar seeing Villiere back

-ves
- whilst I expected them to tire in this one, even Edwards must be shocked at seeing them fall off a cliff 20 mins from end. Fitness has been a strength under this resurgence. Worries that another ridiculously long T14 season means the players are shot.
- pretty much nobody in the reserve category has put up a hand to say he merits a reserve slot, let alone 1st team selection.
- injuries to Ntamack, Jalibert and Baille are not good news.

[Monk]

Scotland forwards are good. Even last week they performed well with a man down: held their own in scrums.

[Torquemada 1420]

On the rerun, I hadn't appreciated on the fly what a shambles the injuries and lack of fitness coupled with a 6 -2 bench had made of the backline in the last quarter:
- Ramos from FB to FH
- Boudehent from flank to centre FFS!
- Macalou from flank to wing (which he has done before) but still not ideal.
- Penaud from wing to centre.
- Bielle-Biarrey from wing to FB.

Utter carnage in the midfield since Boudehent obviously has no pace and Penaud is something of a turnstile in defence. Throw in Lard Arse walking from the 2nd minute that he came on and it's a almost a surprise Fra won.

[_Os_]

France is over hyped. Scotland burst that bubble.

They're both good sides, but no. Scotland has an XV, some of the bench are a noticeable downgrade on the starters and a few of the starters they need to be moving on from asap (Steyn), on the other hand Scotland really know what they're trying to achieve and set about doing it as a team. France have as much talent as NZ or SA, that's what I'm seeing when they play, I don't know enough to say if there's guys they're cutting from their RWC squad that would likely be in the XV/23 of other teams but it seems likely. I'm less clear about what France's game plan is, they have a huge amount of talent and look really sharp attacking at times, but then they also seem a bit disorganised and almost lost this one.

With Scotland we know what gears they have and what their potential is. If the Boks rock up and produce something average, and with our flyhalf/place kicker situation it's difficult to gauge where we are (if there's no place kicking threat, then sides will push the limit against us more than previously), then losing to Scotland is completely possible. Very hard to get a read on what France's ceiling is, the match last year when the Boks got a red card early says about our level, but maybe not and they could be a lot better than the Boks.

From the Bok perspective one weakness France do seem to have (and it's significant given how the Boks run the bench), is they're not closing out games. Their forwards just look like they're carrying too much weight. If a side has enough belief and is organised enough, then in that final third/quarter there's a lot of points that can be clawed back against France.

[Yr Alban]

France is over hyped. Scotland burst that bubble.

They're both good sides, but no. Scotland has an XV, some of the bench are a noticeable downgrade on the starters and a few of the starters they need to be moving on from asap (Steyn), on the other hand Scotland really know what they're trying to achieve and set about doing it as a team. France have as much talent as NZ or SA, that's what I'm seeing when they play, I don't know enough to say if there's guys they're cutting from their RWC squad that would likely be in the XV/23 of other teams but it seems likely. I'm less clear about what France's game plan is, they have a huge amount of talent and look really sharp attacking at times, but then they also seem a bit disorganised and almost lost this one.

With Scotland we know what gears they have and what their potential is. If the Boks rock up and produce something average, and with our flyhalf/place kicker situation it's difficult to gauge where we are (if there's no place kicking threat, then sides will push the limit against us more than previously), then losing to Scotland is completely possible. Very hard to get a read on what France's ceiling is, the match last year when the Boks got a red card early says about our level, but maybe not and they could be a lot better than the Boks.

From the Bok perspective one weakness France do seem to have (and it's significant given how the Boks run the bench), is they're not closing out games. Their forwards just look like they're carrying too much weight. If a side has enough belief and is organised enough, then in that final third/quarter there's a lot of points that can be clawed back against France.

Steyn isn’t a starter. He’s keeping the shirt warm for Darcy Graham. He is a decent backup though.

I’d actually disagree with your comment that some of our bench players are a noticeable downgrade. That certainly used to be the case, but we have a decent amount of depth now. Probably our biggest weakness is at THP right now, but our 3rd choice (Sebastian) came on and didn’t disgrace himself. We finished strongly in both games v France.

Our weakness, as Torq has accurately observed, is that we don’t put in 80-minute performances. We have 10-20 minutes in each game where we seem to go to sleep. If we cut that out we can beat anyone, but it keeps happening. Discipline is also an issue, but that is gradually improving.

[Torquemada 1420]

From the Bok perspective one weakness France do seem to have (and it's significant given how the Boks run the bench), is they're not closing out games. Their forwards just look like they're carrying too much weight. If a side has enough belief and is organised enough, then in that final third/quarter there's a lot of points that can be clawed back against France.

Spot on. It was true of the AIs and much of the 6N. Bar Eng, they've failed to bury oppos when given the chances and that's been true in both of these Sco games.

However, I don't think it's a weight issue bar Lard Arse Atonio who should never be on any sporting field:
- As I've repeatedly pointed out, Fra's pack has usually been lighter than most serious opponents'.
- Until these 2 games, fitness has been the best it's ever been. I know Eng are sh*te but never has Fra's fitness exceeded theirs before.

No. It's down to bad game management. We saw repeatedly that with Ntamack at the helm, that games were in doubt when they should already have been won and it took Jalibert to dig them out of the hole. However, Jalibert is a sick note and Ntamack is Galthie's go to so that means it requires an improvement from Ntamack to address this. Ntamack all too often cripples the backline which is why Fra suffer when Danty is injured: it's Danty's brute force they rely upon to get go fwd when the ball goes wide. Whenever Danty has been injured and Ntamack started, Fra have stuttered.

[ASMO]

To be fair, there was more skill shown in the first 5 minutes of France v Scotland than has been shown in both England Wales games.

[laurent]

To be fair, there was more skill shown in the first 5 minutes of France v Scotland than has been shown in both England Wales games.

Don't watch the beginning of the second half. Pity the french team then spent the rest watching the Scots.

[OomStruisbaai]

Springboks joining the Series, starting round 4 against Wales.

England vs Ireland

France vs Fiji

[handyman]

Springboks joining the Series, starting round 4 against Wales.

England vs Ireland

France vs Fiji

Springboks vs Wales is always hard to watch.

[OomStruisbaai]

Springboks joining the Series, starting round 4 against Wales.

England vs Ireland

France vs Fiji

Springboks vs Wales is always hard to watch.

Cant be worse then England vs Wales.

With Libbok/Willemse in 10 , the Boks will play more eye candy rugby. Read everywhere they talking about changed game plan.

[handyman]

Springboks joining the Series, starting round 4 against Wales.

England vs Ireland

France vs Fiji

Springboks vs Wales is always hard to watch.

Cant be worse then England vs Wales.

With Libbok/Willemse in 10 , the Boks will play more eye candy rugby. Read everywhere they talking about changed game plan.

We'll have to. Libbok and Willemse's kicking is too erratic, they are running flyhalves. We won't die wondering.

[OomStruisbaai]

Bok team to be announce this afternoon.

With Springbok head coach Jacques Nienaber set to name his 23-man squad for the clash on Tuesday, Human hinted that the coaches planned to switch their focus to building combinations as they gear up for the global showpiece which kicks off on Friday 8 September in France.

[Yr Alban]

From the Bok perspective one weakness France do seem to have (and it's significant given how the Boks run the bench), is they're not closing out games. Their forwards just look like they're carrying too much weight. If a side has enough belief and is organised enough, then in that final third/quarter there's a lot of points that can be clawed back against France.

Spot on. It was true of the AIs and much of the 6N. Bar Eng, they've failed to bury oppos when given the chances and that's been true in both of these Sco games.

However, I don't think it's a weight issue bar Lard Arse Atonio who should never be on any sporting field:
- As I've repeatedly pointed out, Fra's pack has usually been lighter than most serious opponents'.
- Until these 2 games, fitness has been the best it's ever been. I know Eng are sh*te but never has Fra's fitness exceeded theirs before.

No. It's down to bad game management. We saw repeatedly that with Ntamack at the helm, that games were in doubt when they should already have been won and it took Jalibert to dig them out of the hole. However, Jalibert is a sick note and Ntamack is Galthie's go to so that means it requires an improvement from Ntamack to address this. Ntamack all too often cripples the backline which is why Fra suffer when Danty is injured: it's Danty's brute force they rely upon to get go fwd when the ball goes wide. Whenever Danty has been injured and Ntamack started, Fra have stuttered.

I see N’tamack has done his ACL and is out of the RWC. Assume you’re pleased at this development?

[OomStruisbaai]

Springbok team to face Wales in Cardiff:
15 – Willie le Roux (Vodacom Bulls) – 86 caps, 65 pts (13T)
14 – Canan Moodie (Vodacom Bulls) – 6 caps, 10 pts (2T)
13 – Jesse Kriel (Canon Eagles) – 61 caps, 60 pts (12T)
12 – Damian de Allende (Panasonic Wild Knights) – 72 caps, 50 pts (10T)
11 – Cheslin Kolbe (Suntory Sungoliath) – 25 caps, 81 pts (12T, 3C, 5P)
10 – Manie Libbok (DHL Stormers) – 7 caps, 45 pts (1T, 11C, 6P)
9 – Jaden Hendrikse (Hollywoodbets Sharks) – 12 caps, 12 pts (2T, 1C)

8 – Jasper Wiese (Leicester) – 22 caps, 5 pts (1T)
7 – Pieter-Steph du Toit (Toyota Verblitz) – 69 caps, 30 pts (6T)
6 – Siya Kolisi (captain – Hollywoodbets Sharks) – 75 caps, 45 pts (9T)
5 – RG Snyman (Munster) – 26 caps, 5 pts (1T)
4 – Jean Kleyn (Munster) – 2 caps, 0 pts (Ireland 5 caps)
3 – Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers) – 61 caps, 5 pts (1T)
2 – Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears) – 61 caps, 75 pts (15T)
1 – Steven Kitshoff (Ulster) – 74 caps, 10 pts (T)

Replacements:
16 – Bongi Mbonambi (Hollywoodbets Sharks) – 60 caps, 60 pts (12T)
17 – Ox Nche (Hollywoodbets Sharks) – 19 caps, 0 pts
18 – Vincent Koch (Hollywoodbets Sharks) – 45 caps, 0 pts
19 – Franco Mostert (Honda Heat) – 65 caps, 15 pts (3T)
20 – Marco van Staden (Vodacom Bulls) – 12 caps, 0 pts
21 – Duane Vermeulen (SA Rugby) – 68 caps, 15 pts (3T)
22 – Grant Williams (Hollywoodbets Sharks) – 4 caps, 0 pts
23 – Damian Willemse (DHL Stormers) – 31 caps, 36 pts 36 (2T, 4C, 4P, 2D)

[assfly]

Decent team. Nice to see Siya back. Good bench too, nice and balanced.

I just hope we get through without any injuries

[handyman]

Decent team. Nice to see Siya back. Good bench too, nice and balanced.

I just hope we get through without any injuries

Yes, Kolisi needs as much game time as possible now.

[assfly]

Yes, Kolisi needs as much game time as possible now.

Indeed. We should probably have realistic expectations for his performance. Let's just hope he has a decent 40-50 minutes.

[handyman]

Yes, Kolisi needs as much game time as possible now.

Indeed. We should probably have realistic expectations for his performance. Let's just hope he has a decent 40-50 minutes.

Yeah, no huge expectations, he'll improve with time in the saddle.

[Torquemada 1420]

From the Bok perspective one weakness France do seem to have (and it's significant given how the Boks run the bench), is they're not closing out games. Their forwards just look like they're carrying too much weight. If a side has enough belief and is organised enough, then in that final third/quarter there's a lot of points that can be clawed back against France.

Spot on. It was true of the AIs and much of the 6N. Bar Eng, they've failed to bury oppos when given the chances and that's been true in both of these Sco games.

However, I don't think it's a weight issue bar Lard Arse Atonio who should never be on any sporting field:
- As I've repeatedly pointed out, Fra's pack has usually been lighter than most serious opponents'.
- Until these 2 games, fitness has been the best it's ever been. I know Eng are sh*te but never has Fra's fitness exceeded theirs before.

No. It's down to bad game management. We saw repeatedly that with Ntamack at the helm, that games were in doubt when they should already have been won and it took Jalibert to dig them out of the hole. However, Jalibert is a sick note and Ntamack is Galthie's go to so that means it requires an improvement from Ntamack to address this. Ntamack all too often cripples the backline which is why Fra suffer when Danty is injured: it's Danty's brute force they rely upon to get go fwd when the ball goes wide. Whenever Danty has been injured and Ntamack started, Fra have stuttered.

I see N’tamack has done his ACL and is out of the RWC. Assume you’re pleased at this development?

Wrong thread and wrong assumption. If you are bothered enough, check the "Ntamack gone" thread or the dedicated Fre rugby thread.

[OomStruisbaai]

Torc you are also on the wrong thread. France vs SA u18 now live. viewtopic.php?t=2558

[laurent]

French team for Fidji



More turnaround

adding Fiji



15-Sireli Maqala,
14-Josua Tuisova, 13-Iosefo Masi, 12-Semi Radradra (captain), 11-Vinaya Habosi,
10-Caleb Muntz, 9-Frank Lomani,
7-Levani Botia, 8-Viliame Mata, 6-Meli Derenalagi,
5-Te Ahiwaru Cirikidaveta, 4-Isoa Nasilasila,
3-Mesake Doge, 2-Tevita Ikanivere, 1-Eroni Mawi

Bench: 16-Sam Matavesi, 17-Peni Ravai, 18-Luke Tagi, 19-Temo Mayanavanua, 20-Albert Tuisue, 21-Simione Kuruvoli, 22-Jiuta Wainiqolo, 23-Ilaisa Droasese

[laurent]

France for the Mathildas

[Jim Lahey]

Dropdale left out by Ireland v Samoa for old man Keith Earls.

I like Earls tbf, and think Jacob's inclusion in every squad he's been in since 2019 has been based entirely on his 2018 form, not his current.

Think the writing is on the wall for him in terms of his international career. Genuinely believe his entire career tipping point was fluffing his lines againt Leinster in the Euro game in 2019. He has been devoid of confidence when actually fit and riddled by injuries since.

He'll always have that sweet try against NZ though