RWCR3 Ireland vs Springboks @ 23/9 21h00

[Blake]

Beating NZ over the last few years really isn't the mountain climb it once was... under Foster the ABs have slipped badly and anyone with a critical eye should be able to appreciate that, while at the same time other international teams have taken a step up and improved.

As I said to Love of the game yesterday, it's too hard to pick a winner in this one. Presenting that video clip of ROG isn't me backing Ireland, it's a fascinating chat between two solid rugby men that offers a load of insights, not just about this coming test but about the game in general. It's well worth a watch.

Watched it last night, actually enjoyed it very much. Big Jim's a very good interviewer and I was actually very impressed with ROG. I better understand now why he's regarded as such a good coach. Very interesting watch.

Yep. Was a good interview. Jim is carrying that channel and a great interviewer. Interesting comments by ROG on how he'd attack the Bok defence. I think he is spot on.
Also 100% agree with him that this game is vitally important because you have to avoid France in France. They are going all the way to the final so you want to avoid them before then. In a final they might choke or get overwhelmed by the occasion but in the QF and SF they are going to be a handful.

[OomStruisbaai]

BoD (I could have died) message to the Irish

[Flockwitt]

Beating NZ over the last few years really isn't the mountain climb it once was... under Foster the ABs have slipped badly and anyone with a critical eye should be able to appreciate that, while at the same time other international teams have taken a step up and improved.

As I said to Love of the game yesterday, it's too hard to pick a winner in this one. Presenting that video clip of ROG isn't me backing Ireland, it's a fascinating chat between two solid rugby men that offers a load of insights, not just about this coming test but about the game in general. It's well worth a watch.

Watched it last night, actually enjoyed it very much. Big Jim's a very good interviewer and I was actually very impressed with ROG. I better understand now why he's regarded as such a good coach. Very interesting watch.

Yep. Was a good interview. Jim is carrying that channel and a great interviewer. Interesting comments by ROG on how he'd attack the Bok defence. I think he is spot on.
Also 100% agree with him that this game is vitally important because you have to avoid France in France. They are going all the way to the final so you want to avoid them before then. In a final they might choke or get overwhelmed by the occasion but in the QF and SF they are going to be a handful.

Yep. Great vid and agree with all of that. If the ABs had beaten France first up it might be a neither here nor there game. But now for sure you want to win it.

[Sards]

Yep. Was a good interview. Jim is carrying that channel and a great interviewer. Interesting comments by ROG on how he'd attack the Bok defence. I think he is spot on.
Also 100% agree with him that this game is vitally important because you have to avoid France in France. They are going all the way to the final so you want to avoid them before then. In a final they might choke or get overwhelmed by the occasion but in the QF and SF they are going to be a handful.

Everyone is writing the ABs off.......?

[laurent]

Yep. Was a good interview. Jim is carrying that channel and a great interviewer. Interesting comments by ROG on how he'd attack the Bok defence. I think he is spot on.
Also 100% agree with him that this game is vitally important because you have to avoid France in France. They are going all the way to the final so you want to avoid them before then. In a final they might choke or get overwhelmed by the occasion but in the QF and SF they are going to be a handful.

Everyone is writing the ABs off.......?

No. However on form they are likely less dangerous than France at home.

[Sards]

Yep. Was a good interview. Jim is carrying that channel and a great interviewer. Interesting comments by ROG on how he'd attack the Bok defence. I think he is spot on.
Also 100% agree with him that this game is vitally important because you have to avoid France in France. They are going all the way to the final so you want to avoid them before then. In a final they might choke or get overwhelmed by the occasion but in the QF and SF they are going to be a handful.

Everyone is writing the ABs off.......?

No. However on form they are likely less dangerous than France at home.

Don't know. I am not feeling it. Definitely above France in my estimation. Taking it slow and silent. Letting all the others walk around with pumped up chests and bravado.
The silent Ninjas

[Blake]

Yep. Was a good interview. Jim is carrying that channel and a great interviewer. Interesting comments by ROG on how he'd attack the Bok defence. I think he is spot on.
Also 100% agree with him that this game is vitally important because you have to avoid France in France. They are going all the way to the final so you want to avoid them before then. In a final they might choke or get overwhelmed by the occasion but in the QF and SF they are going to be a handful.

Everyone is writing the ABs off.......?

Saying that New Zealand is third in the pecking order behind Ireland and France is not "writing them off" at all.

It's just saying that if you could chose which one of those 3 you'd want to face if given the choice, you'd pick the lowest ranked one, which just happens to be NZ at this very moment.

There is very little between the top 4 teams at the moment, and on the day any one of them can beat the other. It's just a bounce of a ball, a referee call, a missed kick at goal or an accidental head clash that can flip a game.

[OomStruisbaai]

Everyone is writing the ABs off.......?

No. However on form they are likely less dangerous than France at home.

Don't know. I am not feeling it. Definitely above France in my estimation. Taking it slow and silent. Letting all the others walk around with pumped up chests and bravado.
The silent Ninjas

I am with you on this. Never ever underestimate the All Blacks. They are bliksems. But hey, we should forget about the quarter finals.

[OomStruisbaai]

Ireland: Hugo Keenan; Mack Hansen, Garry Ringrose, Bundee Aki, James Lowe; Johnny Sexton, Jamison Gibson-Park; Andrew Porter, Rónan Kelleher, Tadhg Furlong; Tadhg Beirne, James Ryan; Peter O’Mahony, Josh van der Flier, Caelan Doris.

Replacements: Dan Sheehan, Dave Kilcoyne, Finlay Bealham, Iain Henderson, Ryan Baird, Conor Murray, Jack Crowley, Robbie Henshaw.

[Sandstorm]

Ireland: Hugo Keenan; Mack Hansen, Garry Ringrose, Bundee Aki, James Lowe; Johnny Sexton, Jamison Gibson-Park; Andrew Porter, Rónan Kelleher, Tadhg Furlong; Tadhg Beirne, James Ryan; Peter O’Mahony, Josh van der Flier, Caelan Doris.

Replacements: Dan Sheehan, Dave Kilcoyne, Finlay Bealham, Iain Henderson, Ryan Baird, Conor Murray, Jack Crowley, Robbie Henshaw.

Strong team!!!

[_Os_]

RasNaber is deep in some people's heads now. Apparently the Springboks are the only team with large men, they are "giants" and no one else is. Goes with some other stuff (which Wood doesn't say in this clip), that the Boks are a defencive team that cannot attack. Just big men in a pack, nothing else. It's moved from being funny to a little bit disturbing, none of it is based in reality.

Anyway, cheats, not fair, change the laws etc.

[Sandstorm]

RasNaber is deep in some people's heads now. Apparently the Springboks are the only team with large men, they are "giants" and no one else is. Goes with some other stuff (which Wood doesn't say in this clip), that the Boks are a defencive team that cannot attack. Just big men in a pack, nothing else. It's moved from being funny to a little bit disturbing, none of it is based in reality.

Anyway, cheats, not fair, change the laws etc.

I hope we go through everyone at this RWC and win the whole thing at a canter!!! That'll really put the shits up the whingers properly!

[Sards]

I remember when Rassie was appointed coach at that first breakfast at Newlands. He said he wanted to have a side that would batter the opposition. He has got his wish.

Honestly. It's a bit moronic for Woods to bleat like that and talk about WR changing the rules to stop it.

[laurent]

It's a weird composition and a large amount of gambling.

The french do 6/2 all the time with the fastest backrow on the planet on the bench .

I don't believe 2 injuries in the Saffa backline would be covered successfully with the bench available.

Just like the hooker replacement is a large gamble.

[PornDog]

Wood has had a thing about limiting substitutes for a long time, the 7-1 is just the latest straw added to the camels back.

I think he probably has a point that it does favour teams that have bigger players and greater depth. For me the more important thing is player safety. Having a behemoth that can't last more than 50 mins should be a disadvantage to your team, but instead is currently an advantage and is definitely increasing the size of the collisions in the game. We need to be going in the opposite direction that we are in that regards.
Personally I'd keep the 8 subs on the bench, but you can only make 3 changes. No matter the reasons, max 3. You get an injury after that? Tough, you're down a man.

[Sandstorm]

Personally I'd keep the 8 subs on the bench, but you can only make 3 changes. No matter the reasons, max 3. You get an injury after that? Tough, you're down a man.

Tired players make stupid decisions or lazy tackles, resulting in more dangerous collisions.
Plus we bitch at 747-take-off decibel levels whenever a team goes down to 14 after a red card.....having this happen after a couple of innocent hamstring injuries would be crazy.

[laurent]

Personally I'd keep the 8 subs on the bench, but you can only make 3 changes. No matter the reasons, max 3. You get an injury after that? Tough, you're down a man.

Tired players make stupid decisions or lazy tackles, resulting in more dangerous collisions.
Plus we bitch at 747-take-off decibel levels whenever a team goes down to 14 after a red card.....having this happen after a couple of innocent hamstring injuries would be crazy.

The strength and conditioning moron should go on the pitch instead in that case

[_Os_]

I hope we go through everyone at this RWC and win the whole thing at a canter!!! That'll really put the shits up the whingers properly!

Kwagga, Van Staden, Fourie are all mannetjies. Imagine being so fearful about an average sized man, who's around 1.80m and 100kg, that you end up pointing a trembling finger at the laws themselves. Faf, Libbok, Kolbe, Arendse, Reinach are also mannetjies. Loads of Saffas watching on TV are larger men than the guys playing, it's not size that puts them into the Checkers jersey. Wood himself was/is a larger man than a lot of the Bok 23.

It's stupid, but I feel like we're losing the "hot takes" battle. And the Boks must win everything. We need Keo to come up with a load kak, he's our biggest troll.

[Uncle fester]

Text I got earlier today.

In total, 17 of the 23 Irish players are taller than their South African counterparts and 13 of the 23 Irish players are heavier than their South African counterparts. The Ireland 23 is 85cm taller in total and 44kg heavier.



One obvious claim that may be made is that the wingers KL Arendse and Cheslin Kolbe skew the totals. However, in the starting forward pack 5 of the 8 Irish forwards are taller than their South African counterparts and 5 of the 8 Irish forwards are heavier than their South African counterparts. The Irish pack totals 894kg, 2kg lighter than the South African pack at 896kg.



Even with a 7-1 split from South Africa, 6 of the 8 Irish bench replacements are taller than their South African counterparts and 4 of the Irish bench replacements are heavier than their South African counterparts. The Irish bench totals 842kg, 4kg heavier than the South African bench at 838kg.



I think this provides at least some empirical evidence that regardless of their bench split choice the South African team is not introducing any unusual or excessive physical presence into rugby matches. If I had to guess I would say they are using a 7-1 split to introduce 3 jackaling threats (Deon Fourie, Marco van Staden, Kwagga Smith) in the final third of the game rather than trying to blow teams off the park with physical power like many journalists are claiming.

[Uncle fester]

RasNaber is deep in some people's heads now. Apparently the Springboks are the only team with large men, they are "giants" and no one else is. Goes with some other stuff (which Wood doesn't say in this clip), that the Boks are a defencive team that cannot attack. Just big men in a pack, nothing else. It's moved from being funny to a little bit disturbing, none of it is based in reality.

Anyway, cheats, not fair, change the laws etc.

Trying a bit too hard there.

[PornDog]

Personally I'd keep the 8 subs on the bench, but you can only make 3 changes. No matter the reasons, max 3. You get an injury after that? Tough, you're down a man.

Tired players make stupid decisions or lazy tackles, resulting in more dangerous collisions.
Plus we bitch at 747-take-off decibel levels whenever a team goes down to 14 after a red card.....having this happen after a couple of innocent hamstring injuries would be crazy.

That sounds like trickle down economics levels of bullshit to me!

Especially as with 8 subs you still have 14 "stupid and tired" players on the pitch!

The point is that you have to be much fitter to play. If your hammies can't support your weight running around a pitch for 80 mins then you need to adjust your weight and training.Less gym + more rugby training = safer all round!

[_Os_]

Wood has had a thing about limiting substitutes for a long time, the 7-1 is just the latest straw added to the camels back.

I think he probably has a point that it does favour teams that have bigger players and greater depth. For me the more important thing is player safety. Having a behemoth that can't last more than 50 mins should be a disadvantage to your team, but instead is currently an advantage and is definitely increasing the size of the collisions in the game. We need to be going in the opposite direction that we are in that regards.
Personally I'd keep the 8 subs on the bench, but you can only make 3 changes. No matter the reasons, max 3. You get an injury after that? Tough, you're down a man.

More fatigued players playing eachother will mean more injuries. Limited replacements would incentivise playing with an injury, and mean minor injuries become bad injuries. Lighter faster players means higher speed collisions and more injuries, 7s has more injuries than XVs. The only data I've seen on this is from this guy, he's made a 15 minute video on it:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/88911252

A lot of this seems to be about unhappiness the Springboks are doing well. The focus is on the Boks having 1 or 2 extra forwards on the bench, as if that explains everything. If people were coming to judgements that weren't prejudiced (Wood says Springbok fans trusted him, took him at his word and didn't understand he was being sarcastic in that clip, it's a way of calling us stupid), their comments would something along the lines of "complete rugby team, capable of great defence and excellent attacking play, are capable of intelligent innovations". Instead it's something a lot closer to "stupid people, cheaters, can only win because they have bigger players, cannot play rugby/attack with the ball".

[PornDog]

For the avoidance of doubt, both Keith Wood and I hold our respective opinions on substitutes in weeks where we dont' play against South Africa as well as in weeks where we do play you.

There seems to be some manner of victimisation card being played here, so I though I'd better clarify that for all you victims out there!


There's a hell of a lot I'd change about rugby if I got my (benevolent) dictatorial hands on it. Subs wouldn't be top of the list, but it'd be on it.

[_Os_]

There seems to be some manner of victimisation card being played here, so I though I'd better clarify that for all you victims out there!

Hopefully the only victims will be Ireland when the 7/1 hits at around 50 minutes. Like being invited to an Afrikaner's house, drinking late into the evening, then as midnight approaches - you barely being conscious at this point - the man of the household whips out 7 bottles of Klippies and 1 bottle of coke, turns to you and says the immortal words "nou gaan ons braai".

[PornDog]

[_Os_]

Wood has had a thing about limiting substitutes for a long time, the 7-1 is just the latest straw added to the camels back.

I think he probably has a point that it does favour teams that have bigger players and greater depth. For me the more important thing is player safety. Having a behemoth that can't last more than 50 mins should be a disadvantage to your team, but instead is currently an advantage and is definitely increasing the size of the collisions in the game. We need to be going in the opposite direction that we are in that regards.
Personally I'd keep the 8 subs on the bench, but you can only make 3 changes. No matter the reasons, max 3. You get an injury after that? Tough, you're down a man.

"stupid people, cheaters, can only win because they have bigger players, cannot play rugby/attack with the ball

A seeringly honest self assessment. Won't endear you with your fellow country men but I salute you sir

[OomStruisbaai]

There seems to be some manner of victimisation card being played here, so I though I'd better clarify that for all you victims out there!

Hopefully the only victims will be Ireland when the 7/1 hits at around 50 minutes. Like being invited to an Afrikaner's house, drinking late into the evening, then as midnight approaches - you barely being conscious at this point - the man of the household whips out 7 bottles of Klippies and 1 bottle of coke, turns to you and says the immortal words "nou gaan ons braai".

Mooi Ox. If we beat the Irish on Saturday night I will slaan the Klippies charge office coffees.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

The man of the house? No self-respecting man puts coke in their drink, it's for children.

Just buy decent brandy instead, or really buy whisky, or, if you must, whiskey.

[Sards]

There seems to be some manner of victimisation card being played here, so I though I'd better clarify that for all you victims out there!

Hopefully the only victims will be Ireland when the 7/1 hits at around 50 minutes. Like being invited to an Afrikaner's house, drinking late into the evening, then as midnight approaches - you barely being conscious at this point - the man of the household whips out 7 bottles of Klippies and 1 bottle of coke, turns to you and says the immortal words "nou gaan ons braai".

We are talking about the Irish here.

[assfly]

The man of the house? No self-respecting man puts coke in their drink, it's for children.

Just buy decent brandy instead, or really buy whisky, or, if you must, whiskey.

What do you know about whisky.

[Sards]

The man of the house? No self-respecting man puts coke in their drink, it's for children.

Just buy decent brandy instead, or really buy whisky, or, if you must, whiskey.

Why get pissed quickly. Generally our weather is s lot hotter here. When we drink we are quenching a thirst foremost. So we gooi some coke and ice to cool the drink down. Later some, like myself go neat. But Generally it tastes like cool drink with a bietjie by. So we just go with the flow. Where you are you need to warm your body up. Quickly.
Most Fridays we have friends around. Ice is paramount. Always bags in the freezer. Everything goes with ice. And coke.

[Blake]

Personally I'd keep the 8 subs on the bench, but you can only make 3 changes. No matter the reasons, max 3. You get an injury after that? Tough, you're down a man.

Tired players make stupid decisions or lazy tackles, resulting in more dangerous collisions.
Plus we bitch at 747-take-off decibel levels whenever a team goes down to 14 after a red card.....having this happen after a couple of innocent hamstring injuries would be crazy.

That sounds like trickle down economics levels of bullshit to me!

Especially as with 8 subs you still have 14 "stupid and tired" players on the pitch!

The point is that you have to be much fitter to play. If your hammies can't support your weight running around a pitch for 80 mins then you need to adjust your weight and training.Less gym + more rugby training = safer all round!

Most of the Boks play 80 min stretches in their URC matches and all of the are capable of doing so. With the bench the starting Bok forwards just have the option to ration their energy expenditure differently if they know they are only going to be required to play 40-50 mins instead of 70-80mins. But they still need to be conditioned to play 80 mins in other matches or for their clubs.

[_Os_]

The man of the house? No self-respecting man puts coke in their drink, it's for children.

Just buy decent brandy instead, or really buy whisky, or, if you must, whiskey.

It's famously a favourite drink of Afrikaners with hard man connotations. It's become SA's favourite mixer. So popular it can be bought pre-mixed in bottles/cans.

It has even been drunk out of the Webb Ellis by Etzebeth (of course).

[assfly]

Why get pissed quickly. Generally our weather is s lot hotter here. When we drink we are quenching a thirst foremost. So we gooi some coke and ice to cool the drink down. Later some, like myself go neat. But Generally it tastes like cool drink with a bietjie by. So we just go with the flow. Where you are you need to warm your body up. Quickly.
Most Fridays we have friends around. Ice is paramount. Always bags in the freezer. Everything goes with ice. And coke.

I'm not a brandy drinker, but on a hot Cape Town day a double klippies en coke with a lot of ice hits the spot.

[Guy Smiley]

For the avoidance of doubt, both Keith Wood and I hold our respective opinions on substitutes in weeks where we dont' play against South Africa as well as in weeks where we do play you.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

It's famously a favourite drink of Afrikaners with hard man connotations.

It's certainly well known as a drink, and we all laughed when we saw how fat it'd helped make Bakkies. But, if you need to add sweetener to your drink it's not perhaps giving off the hard man connotations you seem to think it might

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Why get pissed quickly. Generally our weather is s lot hotter here. When we drink we are quenching a thirst foremost. So we gooi some coke and ice to cool the drink down. Later some, like myself go neat. But Generally it tastes like cool drink with a bietjie by. So we just go with the flow. Where you are you need to warm your body up. Quickly.
Most Fridays we have friends around. Ice is paramount. Always bags in the freezer. Everything goes with ice. And coke.

So add tonic to your gin or vodka along with ice. Or if it's hot enough add ice to brandy or whisky. Just don't add sweet gunky crap

[_Os_]

It's famously a favourite drink of Afrikaners with hard man connotations.

It's certainly well known as a drink, and we all laughed when we saw how fat it'd helped make Bakkies. But, if you need to add sweetener to your drink it's not perhaps giving off the hard man connotations you seem to think it might

When did we all laugh at Bakkies?

That's not how cultural signifiers work. If a group of people do something it becomes connected to that group independent of what it is on its own, it's the people doing it that matters not what they're doing. A certain type of Russian enjoys Adidas leisurewear, just as a certain type of Englishman does along with Stone Island/Lacoste/Fila/Ellesse/Fred Perry. You're not going to approach a group of guys in an English town centre dressed in those brands on a Saturday when soccer is on to tell them "you're all dressed like kids, real men wear suits".

[OomStruisbaai]

The man of the house? No self-respecting man puts coke in their drink, it's for children.

Just buy decent brandy instead, or really buy whisky, or, if you must, whiskey.

Why get pissed quickly. Generally our weather is s lot hotter here. When we drink we are quenching a thirst foremost. So we gooi some coke and ice to cool the drink down. Later some, like myself go neat. But Generally it tastes like cool drink with a bietjie by. So we just go with the flow. Where you are you need to warm your body up. Quickly.
Most Fridays we have friends around. Ice is paramount. Always bags in the freezer. Everything goes with ice. And coke.

Met Eisch ja, Escimo Toffees.

[average joe]

Saffas just like stuff with bubbles. Dit maak ons poep and poepping makes us laugh. Dis lekker.