RWC QF3 - England ‘the moveable force’ vs Fiji ‘the stoppable object’

[Paddington Bear]

Stade Velodrome, Sunday

[inactionman]

I'll comment when I see the team announced - probably something along the lines of 'oh FFS'.

[Lobby]

I'll comment when I see the team announced - probably something along the lines of 'oh FFS'.

As its Borthwick picking the team, he'll probably stick with Ford and Farrell, drop Marchant and bring Daly back on the wing and bring back Youngs as the starting 9.

[Thor Sedan]

Feels like Fiji have shot their load early. They look tired and their last two matches had an unusual number of handling errors.

Think England's biegeness will carry them through.

[Paddington Bear]

Fiji will be closer to their Australian/Welsh ceiling than their Georgian/Portuguese floor but even with our well documented struggles we should be winning this by 10+. I’d imagine we’re going to kick the leather off it and exploit their poor lineout

[Sards]

England have been really meh...I hope Fiji dig deep for this one AND DONT GET DONE IN BY THE REFS AGAIN...

Go FIJI

[Big D]

Fiji looked like a side scared to lose the last two games having done the hard work. They now have a free shot and doing something really special.

[Sandstorm]

Fiji looked like a side scared to lose the last two games having done the hard work. They now have a free shot and doing something really special.

Less tackle bags, more track work on Monday?

[Bloutoria]

Does this not belong here: "Things that don't deserve their own thread"

[OomStruisbaai]

Mathieu Raynal will be the ref.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Interesting to have Fiji as the stoppable object when their Yak Yards says they're about as unstoppable as a rugby side gets

[Line6 HXFX]

I'm supporting England. I like Steve Borthwick. Strikes me as a humble, honest bloke, trying to do right by his nation and team.at his disposal.

He will probably be an absolutely amazing Irish /Leinster coach in a few years, like all the rest you have regretably disgaurded.

[Yeeb]

I'll comment when I see the team announced - probably something along the lines of 'oh FFS'.

As its Borthwick picking the team, he'll probably stick with Ford and Farrell, drop Marchant and bring Daly back on the wing and bring back Youngs as the starting 9.

Suspect you are right :(

[Raggs]

Interesting to have Fiji as the stoppable object when their Yak Yards says they're about as unstoppable as a rugby side gets

England have scored quite a few more tries than they have though. So they're definitely stoppable before it's too late.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Interesting to have Fiji as the stoppable object when their Yak Yards says they're about as unstoppable as a rugby side gets

England have scored quite a few more tries than they have though. So they're definitely stoppable before it's too late.

For sure. And really it's a game we should be winning by 20+ without too many problems, god knows if we'll get close to sanity mind.

Merely the label amused me given the standout feature of their game

[Margin__Walker]

Here's a fun rumour. Andy Goode on his podcast today said he'd heard on good authority that Arundell is out of the picture at the moment as he'd had a bust up with Faz at training.

May be complete rubbish, but that's tickled me. Would have paid to see it.

[Brazil]

Mercifully we've been invited to a barbecue whilst it's on, though there is still a risk that the host might show it.

[inactionman]

Here's a fun rumour. Andy Goode on his podcast today said he'd heard on good authority that Arundell is out of the picture at the moment as he'd had a bust up with Faz at training.

May be complete rubbish, but that's tickled me. Would have paid to see it.

I'd hope Borthwick would be well above that sort of crap.

Besides, having as bit of 'creative tension' is a good thing, isn't it?

[Paddington Bear]

Here's a fun rumour. Andy Goode on his podcast today said he'd heard on good authority that Arundell is out of the picture at the moment as he'd had a bust up with Faz at training.

May be complete rubbish, but that's tickled me. Would have paid to see it.

Wouldn’t totally shock me, but there’s no source for this where the story is anything but ‘Goode said’. Tbh I’d love someone to write a very candid insider book of England rugby 2019-23

[inactionman]

Here's a fun rumour. Andy Goode on his podcast today said he'd heard on good authority that Arundell is out of the picture at the moment as he'd had a bust up with Faz at training.

May be complete rubbish, but that's tickled me. Would have paid to see it.

Wouldn’t totally shock me, but there’s no source for this where the story is anything but ‘Goode said’. Tbh I’d love someone to write a very candid insider book of England rugby 2019-23

I wouldn't put it past Eddie Jones for the pre-2022 part, but then I'm not sure I'd trust it.

[Paddington Bear]

Here's a fun rumour. Andy Goode on his podcast today said he'd heard on good authority that Arundell is out of the picture at the moment as he'd had a bust up with Faz at training.

May be complete rubbish, but that's tickled me. Would have paid to see it.

Wouldn’t totally shock me, but there’s no source for this where the story is anything but ‘Goode said’. Tbh I’d love someone to write a very candid insider book of England rugby 2019-23

I wouldn't put it past Eddie Jones for the pre-2022 part, but then I'm not sure I'd trust it.

Maybe an Eddie version and then another one. Could be good fun. I think we’ll definitely get an Eddie version but it’ll have to be taken with an enormous pinch of salt

[Gumboot]

Mercifully we've been invited to a barbecue whilst it's on, though there is still a risk that the host might show it.

[Margin__Walker]

Ah, it's pinch of salt stuff, but fun to imagine anyway.

Arundell's not particularly aggro

[sockwithaticket]

Goode's a notorious shit-stirrer, but he usually saves the unsubstantiated stuff for his social media accounts, so there's probably something to it.

Although probably more like Arundell going "You know you're allowed to pass it?" in training than fisticuffs.

[inactionman]

For those who haven't suffered enough - plenty of tickets left for the match

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... s-sell-out

[Margin__Walker]

For those who haven't suffered enough - plenty of tickets left for the match

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... s-sell-out

This is half the problem really.

The national team is the RFU's golden egg. Something that in the past has captured the public's imagination.

I've never seen the run up to the knockouts be so low key. The interest just isn't there and no one is talking about it. That may change if they get past Fiji and pull an unexpected Borthball win out of the hat in the semi final, but if I'd be bloody worried if I were in a senior position at the RFU. This is such hard team to get excited about as a fan.

[Paddington Bear]

For those who haven't suffered enough - plenty of tickets left for the match

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... s-sell-out

I got my ticket through a mate of a mate, an Aussie who’s been in England for a fair while. He’d organised a big get together of his mates from both, only for the Aussies to not unreasonably pull out. Same sort of principle as how I got a semi final ticket in 2015 for less than face value after the post Argentina loss Irish fire sale.

The price of flights is another factor - I’m fortunate in that I’ll be coming from Scotland but it was looking like over a grand round trip from London.

[Paddington Bear]

For those who haven't suffered enough - plenty of tickets left for the match

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... s-sell-out

This is half the problem really.

The national team is the RFU's golden egg. Something that in the past has captured the public's imagination.

I've never seen the run up to the knockouts be so low key. The interest just isn't there and no one is talking about it. That may change if they get past Fiji and pull an unexpected Borthball win out of the hat in the semi final, but if I'd be bloody worried if I were in a senior position at the RFU. This is such hard team to get excited about as a fan.

I remember the ‘07 quarter, I’d tagged along with my Dad to a game he was reffing. Both sides had agreed not to move kickoff because there was no point in watching the game, I ended up being tasked by the club’s chairman with running onto the pitch at full time to get everyone into the clubhouse for the last 10 minutes. Fast forward two weeks and you could barely breathe in our clubhouse for the final.

People are very fickle and even a scraped 12-10 semi win would get people hyped. But yes, given it’s unlikely and the general shitness the RFU have to start worrying about their model. You can’t get hyped for this team and you can’t justify Twickenham prices. Which makes it more of a corporate day out, which becomes more soulless and becomes self fulfilling.

[sockwithaticket]

For those who haven't suffered enough - plenty of tickets left for the match

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... s-sell-out

This is half the problem really.

The national team is the RFU's golden egg. Something that in the past has captured the public's imagination.

I've never seen the run up to the knockouts be so low key. The interest just isn't there and no one is talking about it. That may change if they get past Fiji and pull an unexpected Borthball win out of the hat in the semi final, but if I'd be bloody worried if I were in a senior position at the RFU. This is such hard team to get excited about as a fan.

We basically get a choice between miserable loss or ugly, ugly win at the moment against opposition of any quality. This team doesn't have enough track record or good will to get away with playing eye-bleeding rugby.

Obviously Borthwick will view his remit as purely getting the team as far as he can in this tournament however he can, but beyond that the RFU's business model relies on filling up Twickenham and is playing super negative rugby going to make that happen?

[Margin__Walker]

I remember the ‘07 quarter, I’d tagged along with my Dad to a game he was reffing. Both sides had agreed not to move kickoff because there was no point in watching the game, I ended up being tasked by the club’s chairman with running onto the pitch at full time to get everyone into the clubhouse for the last 10 minutes. Fast forward two weeks and you could barely breathe in our clubhouse for the final.

People are very fickle and even a scraped 12-10 semi win would get people hyped. But yes, given it’s unlikely and the general shitness the RFU have to start worrying about their model. You can’t get hyped for this team and you can’t justify Twickenham prices. Which makes it more of a corporate day out, which becomes more soulless and becomes self fulfilling.

Yeah 07 is the obvious parallel .

Back then there was at least the advantage of a bigger rivalry in the quarters and still the residual interest from 03 with a few of the same players around.

Don't get me wrong, if we win this one and muscle up and get a result against a big team in the semi, I'll hop right on board. It's just hard to see the path to that at the moment. Doesn't help that Borthwick and Faz Jr are a bit of a charisma vacuum when it comes to engaging with journos/fans

Either way Borthwick's in for the long haul, so I hope he finds a way to play some rugby people are interested in watching or at the very least make us competitive again. Otherwise it's going to be harder and harder to get those high priced Twickenham sell outs the RFU have always taken for granted.

[Margin__Walker]

For those who haven't suffered enough - plenty of tickets left for the match

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... s-sell-out

This is half the problem really.

The national team is the RFU's golden egg. Something that in the past has captured the public's imagination.

I've never seen the run up to the knockouts be so low key. The interest just isn't there and no one is talking about it. That may change if they get past Fiji and pull an unexpected Borthball win out of the hat in the semi final, but if I'd be bloody worried if I were in a senior position at the RFU. This is such hard team to get excited about as a fan.

We basically get a choice between miserable loss or ugly, ugly win at the moment against opposition of any quality. This team doesn't have enough track record or good will to get away with playing eye-bleeding rugby.

Obviously Borthwick will view his remit as purely getting the team as far as he can in this tournament however he can, but beyond that the RFU's business model relies on filling up Twickenham and is playing super negative rugby going to make that happen?

If we are competitive against the best teams, probably. Play ugly and lose against the likes of Ireland and France every single 6N though and it gets difficult.

[Paddington Bear]

It’s 90% about winning. The 6N has produced far more turgid rugby than it ever has attractive, and it’s by far the most popular rugby in the world

[petej]

Here's a fun rumour. Andy Goode on his podcast today said he'd heard on good authority that Arundell is out of the picture at the moment as he'd had a bust up with Faz at training.

May be complete rubbish, but that's tickled me. Would have paid to see it.

I'd hope Borthwick would be well above that sort of crap.

Besides, having as bit of 'creative tension' is a good thing, isn't it?

Creative isn't a word that springs to mind with Borthwick and Farrell. Making Faz captain was a terrible choice post world cup 2019.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Goode's a notorious shit-stirrer, but he usually saves the unsubstantiated stuff for his social media accounts, so there's probably something to it.

Although probably more like Arundell going "You know you're allowed to pass it?" in training than fisticuffs.

Or you don't have to pass the ball at the floor..

Probably is true, very likely our principal goal misser was sore after the Samoa game and as often happens was given a pass from contact, also very probably Arundell is more than little bored knowing he's surplus to requirements and got stuck in in whatever fashion for shits and giggles, and the protected player and management would't love that.

But really that's a norm in trying to keep 30+ players happy in training, still more so when some of them know they're not wanted and yet have ambitions well beyond also rans, and still more so again if they're looking at who is starting and thinking christ I'm better than them.

If there's a squad at the WC that hasn't had niggle in training I'd be very surprised, it's getting reported on because the views around England and how they're playing are so negative

[tc27]

Apparently Scabby is going to drop Ford so he can start Farrel at 10 with Manu at 12.

I wish I was joking.

[Hal Jordan]

It’s 90% about winning. The 6N has produced far more turgid rugby than it ever has attractive, and it’s by far the most popular rugby in the world

That's more about everyone hating the E glish and wanting a weekend in Rome, though.

[petej]

Goode's a notorious shit-stirrer, but he usually saves the unsubstantiated stuff for his social media accounts, so there's probably something to it.

Although probably more like Arundell going "You know you're allowed to pass it?" in training than fisticuffs.

Or you don't have to pass the ball at the floor..

Probably is true, very likely our principal goal misser was sore after the Samoa game and as often happens was given a pass from contact, also very probably Arundell is more than little bored knowing he's surplus to requirements and got stuck in in whatever fashion for shits and giggles, and the protected player and management would't love that.

But really that's a norm in trying to keep 30+ players happy in training, still more so when some of them know they're not wanted and yet have ambitions well beyond also rans, and still more so again if they're looking at who is starting and thinking christ I'm better than them.

If there's a squad at the WC that hasn't had niggle in training I'd be very surprised, it's getting reported on because the views around England and how they're playing are so negative

You know as a player in any team when a team mate isn't being selected on merit. Even worse when the leader or captain isn't being selected on merit.

[Raggs]

Apparently Scabby is going to drop Ford so he can start Farrel at 10 with Manu at 12.

I wish I was joking.

I believe I speak for us all when I say... FFS.

Accepting perhaps we're boring, setting up a more solid defensive line to stop Fiji doing too much, and just grind them down.

[Paddington Bear]

Apparently Scabby is going to drop Ford so he can start Farrel at 10 with Manu at 12.

I wish I was joking.

Lol. At least one fly half on the pitch offers some coherence I guess

[sockwithaticket]

It’s 90% about winning. The 6N has produced far more turgid rugby than it ever has attractive, and it’s by far the most popular rugby in the world

That's more about everyone hating the E glish and wanting a weekend in Rome, though.

Yeah the Six Nations is as much a cultural event as it is a sporting competition and it hits at a particular point in the year where there's not much else on (afaik, I don't really keep up with any other sports).