Kicking off in Israel

[Torquemada 1420]

I'll get back to you Torq, busy morning sorting out stuff and then it's obviously the Q/F this afternoon. Thanks for being honest, it's both refreshing and illuminating and I enjoy that you mentioned the Crusades which were in response, as you know, to Islamic imperialism and aggression.

You don't see your hypocrisy either.

Speak to you tomorrow.

Good luck. Not that I think you'll need it against a very disappointing Arg.

And the Crusades were nothing of the sort No credible historian is going to advance of support that view these days.

[Torquemada 1420]

I must say that with your all your paragraphs you didn't mention the holocaust once - its actually quite alarming on a personal level because I know the kind of people who tend to do that.

What is the relevance? That was perpetuated by Europeans. If you want to argue that as some partial reparations, a Jewish homeland should have been created in, say, what became East Germany, I'd be sympathetic to that.

[David in Gwent]

I'll get back to you Torq, busy morning sorting out stuff and then it's obviously the Q/F this afternoon. Thanks for being honest, it's both refreshing and illuminating and I enjoy that you mentioned the Crusades which were in response, as you know, to Islamic imperialism and aggression.

You don't see your hypocrisy either.

Speak to you tomorrow.

Good luck. Not that I think you'll need it against a very disappointing Arg.

And the Crusades were nothing of the sort No credible historian is going to advance of support that view these days.

Arg have improved every game.

Next you'll be telling me it wasn't to reclaim the Holy Land for Christianity after years of Islamic expansion and was in fact just islamophobia

.

[Uncle fester]

TH:

I didn’t interact with him on the other forum.

However the other place did enjoy the personal attacks, lefty pile ons, prolific use of the words fascist, bigot, Nazi.

So forgive me if I’m not using that as a useful gauge.

Are you calling DAC a fascist, bigot, Nazi?

[Sandstorm]

This thread has typically descended into another embarrassing religious shitshow.

I’m going to show my disdain for both parties in Israel and the rest of you by having a massive bacon sandwich and not sharing!

[C69]

TH:

I didn’t interact with him on the other forum.

However the other place did enjoy the personal attacks, lefty pile ons, prolific use of the words fascist, bigot, Nazi.

So forgive me if I’m not using that as a useful gauge.

Are you calling DAC a fascist, bigot, Nazi?

It looks like. YMX knows exactly what he is doing. Trying to be clever and edgy.
And failing.

[Ymx]

There we go. The personal attacks again. Genius

[C69]

There we go. The personal attacks again. Genius

These are not personal attacks, your post to me at least seemed snide and you knew exactly what you were doing.
Imho that is. I'm not getting into a shit fight, just tame it down.

[Ymx]

There we go. The personal attacks again. Genius

These are not personal attacks, your post to me at least seemed snide and you knew exactly what you were doing.
Imho that is. I'm not getting into a shit fight, just tame it down.

Which post to you?

[sefton]

Children killed in an Israeli strike on a convoy that was trying to evacuate.

[Line6 HXFX]

Welcome to Missouri.

[media] [/media]

[Line6 HXFX]

[C69]

Dear God. 70 dead after a missile attack filmed by ITV on women and children following Israeli instructions on the route to be taken then medics targeted.

[Raggs]

Dear God. 70 dead after a missile attack filmed by ITV on women and children following Israeli instructions on the route to be taken then medics targeted.

Was the attack itself filmed just went to itv and there was filming of the convey moving, but not of the attack itself.

This is not that attack, it's a different location, but perhaps suggesting that Hamas is not above trying to stop people leaving.

[I like neeps]

Israel's targeting of journalists continues...

[David in Gwent]

BBC in Israel:

[C69]

Israel's targeting of journalists continues...

A Shitload of Reuters journos were assaulted earlier as well at gunpoint

[David in Gwent]

Israel's targeting of journalists continues...

A Shitload of Reuters journos were assaulted earlier as well at gunpoint

Hope they are all ok....

[Slick]

Dear God. 70 dead after a missile attack filmed by ITV on women and children following Israeli instructions on the route to be taken then medics targeted.

Was the attack itself filmed just went to itv and there was filming of the convey moving, but not of the attack itself.

This is not that attack, it's a different location, but perhaps suggesting that Hamas is not above trying to stop people leaving.

There was filming just post attack that I saw on Twitter

[David in Gwent]

Dear God. 70 dead after a missile attack filmed by ITV on women and children following Israeli instructions on the route to be taken then medics targeted.

Was the attack itself filmed just went to itv and there was filming of the convey moving, but not of the attack itself.

This is not that attack, it's a different location, but perhaps suggesting that Hamas is not above trying to stop people leaving.

There was filming just post attack that I saw on Twitter

That's an explosion from something being carried in a vehicle, not an air strike or missile.

[David in Gwent]

Emergency Food Trucks Arrive in Ebbw Vale

[dpedin]

Was the attack itself filmed just went to itv and there was filming of the convey moving, but not of the attack itself.

This is not that attack, it's a different location, but perhaps suggesting that Hamas is not above trying to stop people leaving.

There was filming just post attack that I saw on Twitter

That's an explosion from something being carried in a vehicle, not an air strike or missile.

Good god you're a ballistic expert now! For me that was clearly a missile or similar sticking the vehicle. We can however agree to disagree!

[TB63]

[sefton]

There was filming just post attack that I saw on Twitter

That's an explosion from something being carried in a vehicle, not an air strike or missile.

Good god you're a ballistic expert now! For me that was clearly a missile or similar sticking the vehicle. We can however agree to disagree!

You missed his lectures on PR on the melting point of steel as he pointed out the deep state involvement in 9/11

[C69]

That's an explosion from something being carried in a vehicle, not an air strike or missile.

Good god you're a ballistic expert now! For me that was clearly a missile or similar sticking the vehicle. We can however agree to disagree!

You missed his lectures on PR on the melting point of steel as he pointed out the deep state involvement in 9/11

Trust Sefton to Stoke the fire.

[sefton]

[David in Gwent]

That's an explosion from something being carried in a vehicle, not an air strike or missile.

Good god you're a ballistic expert now! For me that was clearly a missile or similar sticking the vehicle. We can however agree to disagree!

You missed his lectures on PR on the melting point of steel as he pointed out the deep state involvement in 9/11

I never talked about the melting points of steel, however, I did like to talk about the passports found at two of the sites though. I still do because I enjoy watching peoples cognitive dissonance struggles.

Why don't you just go the whole hog and bring up comparing me to Anders Brevik? No need to hold back.

[Raggs]

There was filming just post attack that I saw on Twitter

That's an explosion from something being carried in a vehicle, not an air strike or missile.

Good god you're a ballistic expert now! For me that was clearly a missile or similar sticking the vehicle. We can however agree to disagree!

I wouldn't trust DiG with a stick. However the twitter user posting this does know their stuff. They also aren't saying anything is confirmed. Worth reading. Hamas have also been putting in roadblocks in an attempt to prevent people leaving.

[sefton]

The first victim of war is the truth, I wouldn’t believe either side on these deaths at the moment without some substantial evidence.

[David in Gwent]

That's an explosion from something being carried in a vehicle, not an air strike or missile.

Good god you're a ballistic expert now! For me that was clearly a missile or similar sticking the vehicle. We can however agree to disagree!

You missed his lectures on PR on the melting point of steel as he pointed out the deep state involvement in 9/11

The first victim of war is the truth,

[David in Gwent]

Okay. I'll go back to your first point.

By the time we got to 1900, the population of "Palestine" was approx. 90% Muslim and the bulk of the rest Christian (in fact, Christians outnumbered Jews at least as far back as the 1500s). At least half the world's Jews lived in Russia.

The Brits (well, the English) expelled all their Jews in the 13th C. The Russians persecuted the Jews throughout the period of the Pogroms. The Krauts followed on from the Russians.

So when some Jewish terrorists (Brit's term for them, not mine for the masses of illegal Jewish immigration into Palestine**: maybe read up on Aliyah Bet) declared the State of Israel in 1948, it's little surprise to see it given immediate recognition by.......... Russia and Britain (plus the Brit's stooges, the Yanks).

The reality is the overwhelming blame for the clusterf**k that is the Middle East lies with the Brits with some marginal early French input and a shedload of Yank input (mostly post WW2).

**Ironic that the Brits are now "trying to stop the boats" eh?

Two questions for you to start with.

1. Of what relevance is the exit of the Jews from the UK in 1200 (introduced by the Normans) when 200,000 came back in the 19th century

2. Are you denying that the area is the ancestral homeland of the Jews?

I'll answer your questions although you deny me the same courtesy.

1) I note your watering down to "exit" for what was as clear a case of ethnic cleansing as you could find in history. It's relevant because it demonstrates just how far back the English/Brits wanted Jewish money but not what they considered the problem of having the Jews on their own doorstep. In echoes of the Tory's get rid of unwanted immigrants to Rwanda, your Government tried to dump them in next door Uganda FFS. It's relevant because Britain's recognition of Israel was just self interested expediency. Remember that old maxim: "The English have no morals. Only interests."

2) Errrr, yes. I thought that was clear. With a Jewish population in "Palestine" of something like 1% in 1900, the vast majority of Jews in
Israel have no meaningful connection with the area. As per my comment on giving me St Lucia, the Jews are a religious group and not a racial one and even less so a national one.

Now, I've answered your questions so maybe you will spare me more evasion and answer mine? You don't see the hypocrisy in your long running board battles over your stance to prevent illegal immigration to the UK because, amongst other things, you think it displaces and waters down culture........... whilst at the same time supporting the creation of the state of Israel with the single, biggest illegal immigration and subsequent indigenous displacement in modern history?

Now, I'm going to be very clear because I'm sure you or someone is going to post the accusation. Am I anti-Jewish? Well, yes, but no more so than I am anti any other god bothering nonsense and considerably less so than I am anti-Catholic. Basically, I think god botherers have the absolute right to live anywhere peaceably as long as their ridiculous beliefs don't unduly impinge upon the rest of us. Am I anti-Israel? 100%. I do not acknowledge the right for an illegal state to exist any more than I acknowledge Russia's ownership of the Crimea, Germany's ownership of the Sudentenland (or any other "Liebensraum").

I return to the point: the Brits' centuries of self interest and duplicity in the region (reaching back to the Crusades) is almost entirely responsible for the sh*tfest the place is today. You lot f**ked all this up.

I need to know why you think Israel is an "illegal state" and why you don't mention the Arab nations ethnically cleansing their Jewish populations.

[Fonz]

Formal war declared. I am still not sure what Hamas were at. Derail the Israeli Saudi detente? Try and spark a full war? Why would they feel now is the time for that. The Republican posturing is predictable but Christ its unfortunate for Biden the year before an election. Support for Israel is a bit more fragmented in the states than it was before but in the round they lean heavily that way: 55% to 26% support Palestine. Granted that's a high for the latter. Also that 26% is pre dead hippy girl being sat and spat on. That's so bad all the Palestinian leadership can do is pretend it wasn't them. Say it's a false flag or some Russkie type bollox. The dead granny's they can explain away but that's violently toxic. To be honest it's an image I will never have leave me. I am more nuanced than our David from.Gwent or De Santis but fuck me it's horrific

That really is startling for someone who grew up here. I actually remember the first pro-Palestinian guy I ever met — which was in college, naturally, circa 2010 — and it was like meeting a Martian. It literally did not exist when I was growing up, the only question was essentially “how pro-Israeli are you?” Perhaps another manifestation of how a shared media has bled its viewpoints to this side of the Atlantic.

As to the point of your post though, I don’t think this must necessarily have been timed with some sort of greater strategic objective in mind. It may simply have been, Israelis aren’t looking, let’s roll. Less 4D chess, more tic-tac-toe, I reckon.

Moreover, I’m fairly confident that anything that’s happening is most assuredly NOT done with American/Western opinion in mind. Maybe still foolish on their part at this particular juncture, even though our influence and power lessens (ever so slightly) by the day. Disseminating videos like that one with the girl are ultimately more about rallying the target audience, and it’s probably more likely to do that than bring about serious consequences from us. But again that’s attributing some sort of coherent logic to the actions undertaken by these elements, which…may not be warranted.

I’d rather not wade in much more deeply here, but this does tickle my geopolitical gspot so we’ll see…

Tic tac toe indeed. There are a lot of people out there saying they don't understand the attack because what purpose does it serve Hamas? They fundamentally lack the understanding that a) Hamas will take glee in any opportunity they can to murder Jews and b) Hamas and most pro-Palestinian Arab thought is that the Jews are inherently weak and will fold under the smallest bit of pressure. These people trying to understand this conflict from a Western lens are understandably constantly confused by actions in this conflict.

Good to see you around here goey

(The circumstances notwithstanding)

[Calculon]

I’ve worked with a fair few Egyptians and they dislike the Israelis, obviously, but they also think they are cunning and behind anything bad happening to Muslims. Obvious example was the 2004 tsunami that killed thousands of Muslims. I was apparently, rather endearingly, naïve for believing it was a natural disaster rather than an deliberate Israeli nuclear underwater bomb.

[Line6 HXFX]

All of this is great, so we should allow Isreal to murder Eygtians too. Everyone hates Israelies..we get it. Most nations have diplomatic ties, to their neighbours, strong relations, bonds based on love and respect....we in Wales hate the fking English they hate us more. We have a far different type of fun at their music festivals, than hamas. Though the Bulldog bash (ran by hells angels) can be complete carnage, that's more of a Outlaw V Hells Angel thing.

How about moving to Missouri isrealies?


The sunshine is the brightest—in Missouri;
Life's burdens are the lightest—in Missouri;
The summer skies are bluest,
Disappointments are the fewest,
And the friendships are the truest,
In Missouri.

The cornstalks grow the tallest—in Missouri;
Crop troubles are the smallest—in Missouri;
The landscapes are the fairest,
While the products are the rarest,
And the people are the squarest—
In Missouri.

The span of life is longest—in Missouri;
The love of right is strongest—in Missouri;
The minds of men are keenest,
Where the grass is always greenest,
And the living is serenest—
In Missouri.

The larks can sing the sweetest—in Missouri;
Contentment is completest—in Missouri;
The damsels are the dearest,
And their smiles are the sincerest,
So that Heaven seems the nearest—
In Missouri.

[Raggs]

All of this is great, so we should allow Isreal to murder Eygtians too. Everyone hates Israelies..we get it. Most nations have diplomatic ties, to their neighbours, strong relations, bonds based on love and respect....we in Wales hate the fking English they hate us more. We have a far different type of fun at their music festivals, than hamas. Though the Bulldog bash (ran by hells angels) can be complete carnage, that's more of a Outlaw V Hells Angel thing.

How about moving to Missouri isrealies?


The sunshine is the brightest—in Missouri;
Life's burdens are the lightest—in Missouri;
The summer skies are bluest,
Disappointments are the fewest,
And the friendships are the truest,
In Missouri.

The cornstalks grow the tallest—in Missouri;
Crop troubles are the smallest—in Missouri;
The landscapes are the fairest,
While the products are the rarest,
And the people are the squarest—
In Missouri.

The span of life is longest—in Missouri;
The love of right is strongest—in Missouri;
The minds of men are keenest,
Where the grass is always greenest,
And the living is serenest—
In Missouri.

The larks can sing the sweetest—in Missouri;
Contentment is completest—in Missouri;
The damsels are the dearest,
And their smiles are the sincerest,
So that Heaven seems the nearest—
In Missouri.

You really are a despicable cunt. Look at your behaviour over a war in which atrocities have happened.

[Line6 HXFX]

My point is fairly simple Raggs. Leave. I think of Israel basically as what would happen, if a bunch of mental deep south survivalist types..who go to gun shows, 17 times a week, formed a country. They are the best customer the arms industry and America ever had.
That is why the US support them. They even give them money to buy their shite.
It is a terrible sick j9ke to pull on people, "yeah move into this hornets nest...oh and buy our weopens to defend yourself".

They are essentially cleatus, with a blank cheque book.
I don't like the Israeli people being used like this.

I just want to move cleatus back to Montana where he belongs.

Under the stars, amongst the corn, on rocking chairs, mastering basic chords on the banjo.

[Kiwias]

This will be my sole contribution to this thread, so enjoy it, all.

[C69]

Whole streets razed to the ground in Northern Gaza.
Lets hope they bulldoze the place soon clear the rubble and mark out new plans for the settlers.

[BnM]

[C69]

Wtaf is happening at the Egypt border?