Obviously its never going to happen, but an England Argentina final would be fucking hilarious._Os_ wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:36 amWales were heavy favourites and in the tipping comp of 400k rugby nerds, 83% backed Wales. Pumas winning was a huge upset.sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:22 amThere's no way the Pumas turning over Wales is a huge upset. Argentina almost always have ropey/inconsistent form, but are more than capable of turning it on and taking out someone decent and this Wales side is pretty ordinary._Os_ wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:17 pm Two huge upsets. Never gave the Pumas a chance against Wales, and All Blacks winning was only an outside chance.
Awful performance by me in the tipping comp so far this round, I have scored zero points. All that's keeping me in it is almost no one calling a Pumas win and how far ahead I was.
Pumas have fucked me this RWC. Rated them pre-RWC and got stung for it, gave up on them, only for them to play close to pre-RWC potential (and for Wales to underperform a bit) and they're into a semi, infuriating. Just keep calling them wrong.
But then as Torq has been saying for awhile, it's difficult to know what Pumas team is turning up. Could they beat the All Blacks? Yes, because this Pumas team has done so. Would it be a huge upset if they did? Yes, because like Wales the All Blacks will be heavy favourites.
The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
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Uncle fester
- Posts: 4192
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:42 pm
Argies losing to England coloured a lot of views.sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 9:30 amThat is absolutely insane. The only way I can fathom that many people back Wales is if they've barely or never seen Argentina over the last several seasons and/or know nothing about Argentina's tendency to get their shit somewhat together for a world cup._Os_ wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:36 amWales were heavy favourites and in the tipping comp of 400k rugby nerds, 83% backed Wales. Pumas winning was a huge upset.sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:22 am
There's no way the Pumas turning over Wales is a huge upset. Argentina almost always have ropey/inconsistent form, but are more than capable of turning it on and taking out someone decent and this Wales side is pretty ordinary.
But then as Torq has been saying for awhile, it's difficult to know what Pumas team is turning up. Could they beat the All Blacks? Yes, because this Pumas team has done so. Would it be a huge upset if they did? Yes, because like Wales the All Blacks will be heavy favourites.
Argies beating the Kiwis would be a huge upset, a magnitude more so than beating Wales.
3 out of 4. Happy with that.Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:57 aminactionman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:51 am Robert Kitson showing remarkable insouciance to the mockers' gods:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... -breakdownNorthern powerhouses aim to shut south out of World Cup semi-finals
Each quarter-final pits a northern hemisphere group winner against a runner-up from the southern hemisphere. Could a historic lockout be made in France this weekend?
You've done it now, Bobby my boy.
Ireland
England
Argentina
SA
Speaking only for myself, I was in that 83% (thinking Gatlandball would be a winning formula in this format)…but it’s not like I thought it was a slam dunk by any means; I wouldn’t even say I was all that surprised the Argies won. So taking that metric as gospel may not be advisable.sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 9:30 amThat is absolutely insane. The only way I can fathom that many people back Wales is if they've barely or never seen Argentina over the last several seasons and/or know nothing about Argentina's tendency to get their shit somewhat together for a world cup._Os_ wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:36 amWales were heavy favourites and in the tipping comp of 400k rugby nerds, 83% backed Wales. Pumas winning was a huge upset.sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:22 am
There's no way the Pumas turning over Wales is a huge upset. Argentina almost always have ropey/inconsistent form, but are more than capable of turning it on and taking out someone decent and this Wales side is pretty ordinary.
But then as Torq has been saying for awhile, it's difficult to know what Pumas team is turning up. Could they beat the All Blacks? Yes, because this Pumas team has done so. Would it be a huge upset if they did? Yes, because like Wales the All Blacks will be heavy favourites.
Argies beating the Kiwis would be a huge upset, a magnitude more so than beating Wales.
JM said it well in the match thread (paraphrasing here): Wales is a relatively poor team playing well as of late, Argentina is a good team playing poor as of late.
And, well, the Pumas turned it on.
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Paddington Bear
- Posts: 5957
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:29 pm
- Location: Hertfordshire
Pulled strings at 10 in a 7 a side full contact England v Australia street rugby match in Marseille. I appear to have left a significant amount of skin in the south of France, and it is fair to say I do not envy housekeeping at the hotel I have just checked out of
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
Pics pleasePaddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:44 am Pulled strings at 10 in a 7 a side full contact England v Australia street rugby match in Marseille. I appear to have left a significant amount of skin in the south of France, and it is fair to say I do not envy housekeeping at the hotel I have just checked out of
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sockwithaticket
- Posts: 8663
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:48 am
Interesting that so many of the top performers are from losing teams.
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convoluted
- Posts: 516
- Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:00 pm
For the last year or so there has been the tedious and unrelenting sarcastic sneer from certain NZ contributors, spearheaded by the forum's ultimate useless fat cunt poster Guy Smiley, of "
learnings ...so many learnings " in snarky reference to that specific constant message coming from the AB's camp.
To educate that group-think group-speak clique, this is what was meant by the 'learnings' :
First, from Rugby Pass:
... But all these qualities that the All Blacks displayed in the quarterfinal were the symptoms of one much bigger factor, which is, that it was a performance that demonstrated New Zealand’s capacity to learn, absorb, adapt and execute.
...the All Blacks ... have shown that once again they are a team that can fix itself, evolve (and) pick themselves up after crushing defeats and come back harder and better equipped ... what really them won a place in the semi-final was the stunning depth of research, analysis and hard work they have put into their defensive structure since they lost the three-Test series to Ireland last year (which) exposed serious weaknesses in the structure of the defensive screen, and the ability of the players to read what was happening around them ... (and thus began) a fundamental rebuild of the defensive structure. But (not) reshaped generally (but rather) reconstructed with the specific goal of being revamped to help the All Blacks beat Ireland at the 2023 World Cup.
... What was so good about (the AB) performance in the quarter-final was the way that, as the game played out, they were able to improve their reading of the Irish attack.
Their system took a bit of time to find itself, as in the first half Bundee Aki was able to score Ireland’s first try by getting on the outside and shrugging off some weak tackling by Rieko Ioane and Shannon Frizell who were all too easily beaten on the inside.
But (then) the All Blacks picked the right cues and were sharper at seeing where Ireland were going and when they were going to try to play the pass out the back ... (after Aki's try) the system cranked into fifth gear and the Irish runners were shut down behind the gainline or they had to cut back into the middle of the field where there were more black defenders waiting with a numeric advantage to pick off the turnover.
“ ... (We had) had to look at the fundamentals of the defensive game within the All Blacks,” says defence coach Scott McLeod.
“A big part of that was that in Super Rugby in New Zealand, they tend to defend the man. They line up on a man and they defend the man, whereas that doesn’t work against teams like Ireland, against Italy and France and we knew we had these teams, more than likely, at this World Cup.
We had to develop our ability to defend the ball so wherever the ball is we have to put people in front of it and what we have learned is that Ireland make you do that over and over again.
“They force you to make a decision about the ball and that was the most pleasing aspect [of the quarter-final victory], we have built the players’ skill sets from last year and we have learned some really hard lessons and then against Ireland, for the majority of the time we got that right.”
... The All Blacks were torn apart by Ireland last year but not in Paris when it mattered, and the victory was a tribute to the strength of their analysis and rugby intelligence ...
Samer-same from the NZ Herald:
Gregor Paul in Paris
... Maybe the first half wasn’t perfect, but in the last 40 minutes of their epic quarter-final, the All Blacks produced a defensive effort that was 15 months in the making, by almost perfectly executing a system that was built specifically with Ireland in mind.
Of all the things the All Blacks learned in their 2022 series defeat to Ireland, the most important was that their defensive system wasn’t good enough, tight enough or cohesive enough to beat the best teams.
The Irish exposed New Zealand in July last year as a team that offered up too much space, and who were vulnerable to any opponent who could get the ball wide and attack them close to the touchlines.
Ireland pulled the All Blacks this way and that a year ago - tormented them with their ability to play the ball out the back and bring captain Johnny Sexton back into play via his favoured looping run.
...It was a painful lesson for Ian Foster’s team - one that cost two assistants their jobs and which led to defence coach Scott McLeod rebuilding the defensive structure, all with the view of unveiling the finished product against Ireland in the World Cup quarter-finals.
...the ultimate test would be seeing how well the team could shut down Ireland. Would they be able to read an Irish attack that has only improved since last July by using variations of similar plays more subtly?
Would they be able to stop Ireland endlessly playing the ball out the back door to put Mack Hansen, James Lowe or Sexton - all of whom love attacking wide on arcing runs - into the sort of space they used to deadly effect in New Zealand?
Would a system designed specifically to beat Ireland prove to be well enough considered and then well enough executed to do what it was designed to do?
... (Last year) we had some shoddy defence when we were defending their outstanding attacking system,” said Jordie Barrett.
“We had some wide spaces, and they picked us off all game with their short passing.
“We were a lot tighter this game, and we were happy to let them get to the edges a bit more and put a bit of pressure on there.”
... by the second half, the All Blacks were picking Ireland’s movements more instinctively, and they were good enough to get to the loop-runners early and hit them behind the gain line.
Time and again, Barrett in particular, but also Anton Lienert-Brown when he came off the bench, judged brilliantly when Ireland were going to throw the ball out the back door, and they didn’t miss with their tackles either.
It frustrated Ireland, made them a little panicky, and they lost some of their attacking shape, even though they were dominating possession.
But the ultimate test to New Zealand’s newfound defensive smarts was the way they successfully held Ireland out for 37 phases in the last three minutes ...
learnings ...so many learnings " in snarky reference to that specific constant message coming from the AB's camp.To educate that group-think group-speak clique, this is what was meant by the 'learnings' :
First, from Rugby Pass:
... But all these qualities that the All Blacks displayed in the quarterfinal were the symptoms of one much bigger factor, which is, that it was a performance that demonstrated New Zealand’s capacity to learn, absorb, adapt and execute.
...the All Blacks ... have shown that once again they are a team that can fix itself, evolve (and) pick themselves up after crushing defeats and come back harder and better equipped ... what really them won a place in the semi-final was the stunning depth of research, analysis and hard work they have put into their defensive structure since they lost the three-Test series to Ireland last year (which) exposed serious weaknesses in the structure of the defensive screen, and the ability of the players to read what was happening around them ... (and thus began) a fundamental rebuild of the defensive structure. But (not) reshaped generally (but rather) reconstructed with the specific goal of being revamped to help the All Blacks beat Ireland at the 2023 World Cup.
... What was so good about (the AB) performance in the quarter-final was the way that, as the game played out, they were able to improve their reading of the Irish attack.
Their system took a bit of time to find itself, as in the first half Bundee Aki was able to score Ireland’s first try by getting on the outside and shrugging off some weak tackling by Rieko Ioane and Shannon Frizell who were all too easily beaten on the inside.
But (then) the All Blacks picked the right cues and were sharper at seeing where Ireland were going and when they were going to try to play the pass out the back ... (after Aki's try) the system cranked into fifth gear and the Irish runners were shut down behind the gainline or they had to cut back into the middle of the field where there were more black defenders waiting with a numeric advantage to pick off the turnover.
“ ... (We had) had to look at the fundamentals of the defensive game within the All Blacks,” says defence coach Scott McLeod.
“A big part of that was that in Super Rugby in New Zealand, they tend to defend the man. They line up on a man and they defend the man, whereas that doesn’t work against teams like Ireland, against Italy and France and we knew we had these teams, more than likely, at this World Cup.
We had to develop our ability to defend the ball so wherever the ball is we have to put people in front of it and what we have learned is that Ireland make you do that over and over again.
“They force you to make a decision about the ball and that was the most pleasing aspect [of the quarter-final victory], we have built the players’ skill sets from last year and we have learned some really hard lessons and then against Ireland, for the majority of the time we got that right.”
... The All Blacks were torn apart by Ireland last year but not in Paris when it mattered, and the victory was a tribute to the strength of their analysis and rugby intelligence ...
Samer-same from the NZ Herald:
Gregor Paul in Paris
... Maybe the first half wasn’t perfect, but in the last 40 minutes of their epic quarter-final, the All Blacks produced a defensive effort that was 15 months in the making, by almost perfectly executing a system that was built specifically with Ireland in mind.
Of all the things the All Blacks learned in their 2022 series defeat to Ireland, the most important was that their defensive system wasn’t good enough, tight enough or cohesive enough to beat the best teams.
The Irish exposed New Zealand in July last year as a team that offered up too much space, and who were vulnerable to any opponent who could get the ball wide and attack them close to the touchlines.
Ireland pulled the All Blacks this way and that a year ago - tormented them with their ability to play the ball out the back and bring captain Johnny Sexton back into play via his favoured looping run.
...It was a painful lesson for Ian Foster’s team - one that cost two assistants their jobs and which led to defence coach Scott McLeod rebuilding the defensive structure, all with the view of unveiling the finished product against Ireland in the World Cup quarter-finals.
...the ultimate test would be seeing how well the team could shut down Ireland. Would they be able to read an Irish attack that has only improved since last July by using variations of similar plays more subtly?
Would they be able to stop Ireland endlessly playing the ball out the back door to put Mack Hansen, James Lowe or Sexton - all of whom love attacking wide on arcing runs - into the sort of space they used to deadly effect in New Zealand?
Would a system designed specifically to beat Ireland prove to be well enough considered and then well enough executed to do what it was designed to do?
... (Last year) we had some shoddy defence when we were defending their outstanding attacking system,” said Jordie Barrett.
“We had some wide spaces, and they picked us off all game with their short passing.
“We were a lot tighter this game, and we were happy to let them get to the edges a bit more and put a bit of pressure on there.”
... by the second half, the All Blacks were picking Ireland’s movements more instinctively, and they were good enough to get to the loop-runners early and hit them behind the gain line.
Time and again, Barrett in particular, but also Anton Lienert-Brown when he came off the bench, judged brilliantly when Ireland were going to throw the ball out the back door, and they didn’t miss with their tackles either.
It frustrated Ireland, made them a little panicky, and they lost some of their attacking shape, even though they were dominating possession.
But the ultimate test to New Zealand’s newfound defensive smarts was the way they successfully held Ireland out for 37 phases in the last three minutes ...
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Guy Smiley
- Posts: 6014
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:52 pm
I'm so totally in your head, pulling the levers and pushing the buttons.
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Paddington Bear
- Posts: 5957
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:29 pm
- Location: Hertfordshire
Disagree, as discussed at length the draw has left us and Argentina a little undercooked, so it’s good to give us both a chance to try things before the big dance
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
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Deveron Boy
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:51 pm
I am guessing its the same clown committee responsible for the Original draw now in charge of ref appointments?
on what planet after his performance on sunday was Bin the right man for the Saffas again? Luke Pearce or Nika Amashukeli don't get quarter final or semi-final? Fking twats
on what planet after his performance on sunday was Bin the right man for the Saffas again? Luke Pearce or Nika Amashukeli don't get quarter final or semi-final? Fking twats
Last edited by Deveron Boy on Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Insane_Homer
- Posts: 5389
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:14 pm
- Location: Leafy Surrey
For the same reason he got the SA v France game after the Ireland performance, a keewee ref to determine who the keewees meet nextDeveron Boy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:28 pm I am guessing its the same clown committee responsible for the Original draw now in charge of ref appointments?
on what planet after his performance on sunday was Bin the right man for the Safes again? Luke Pearce or Nika Amashukeli don't get quarter final ore semi-final? Fking twats
“Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.”
Argentina v New Zealand
Date: Friday, October 20
Kick off: 21:00 local (20:00 BST, 19:00 GMT)
Venue: Stade de France, Saint-Denis
Referee: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant Referees: Nic Berry (Australia), Karl Dickson (England)
TMO: Ben Whitehouse (Wales)
England v South Africa
Date: Saturday, October 21
Kick off: 21:00 local (20:00 BST, 19:00 GMT)
Venue: Stade de France, Saint-Denis
Referee: Ben O’Keeffe (New Zealand)
Assistant Referees: Andrew Brace (Ireland), Paul Williams (New Zealand)
TMO: Brendon Pickerill (New Zealand)
Date: Friday, October 20
Kick off: 21:00 local (20:00 BST, 19:00 GMT)
Venue: Stade de France, Saint-Denis
Referee: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant Referees: Nic Berry (Australia), Karl Dickson (England)
TMO: Ben Whitehouse (Wales)
England v South Africa
Date: Saturday, October 21
Kick off: 21:00 local (20:00 BST, 19:00 GMT)
Venue: Stade de France, Saint-Denis
Referee: Ben O’Keeffe (New Zealand)
Assistant Referees: Andrew Brace (Ireland), Paul Williams (New Zealand)
TMO: Brendon Pickerill (New Zealand)
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topofthemoon
- Posts: 289
- Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:22 pm
Angus Gardner & Ben O'Keeffe will be the 15th & 16th referees to take charge of a men's RWC semi-final.
O'Keeffe is the 1st Kiwi to ref a semi since Steve Walsh in 2007.
Gardner is the 1st Aussie to ref a semi since Kerry Fitzgerald in 1991.
Australia - 3 RWC semis refereed;
England - 2;
France - 2;
Ireland - 2;
New Zealand - 3;
Scotland - 3;
South Africa - 2;
Wales - 3.
O'Keeffe is the 1st Kiwi to ref a semi since Steve Walsh in 2007.
Gardner is the 1st Aussie to ref a semi since Kerry Fitzgerald in 1991.
Australia - 3 RWC semis refereed;
England - 2;
France - 2;
Ireland - 2;
New Zealand - 3;
Scotland - 3;
South Africa - 2;
Wales - 3.
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Uncle fester
- Posts: 4192
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:42 pm
https://x.com/topofthemoongw/status/171 ... tRYAHubiTQtopofthemoon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 6:51 pm Angus Gardner & Ben O'Keeffe will be the 15th & 16th referees to take charge of a men's RWC semi-final.
O'Keeffe is the 1st Kiwi to ref a semi since Steve Walsh in 2007.
Gardner is the 1st Aussie to ref a semi since Kerry Fitzgerald in 1991.
Australia - 3 RWC semis refereed;
England - 2;
France - 2;
Ireland - 2;
New Zealand - 3;
Scotland - 3;
South Africa - 2;
Wales - 3.
Gardner is a break of recent trends.
Ben would be more excited if NZ lost and he had a chance at the final.Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:57 pmFor the same reason he got the SA v France game after the Ireland performance, a keewee ref to determine who the keewees meet nextDeveron Boy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:28 pm I am guessing its the same clown committee responsible for the Original draw now in charge of ref appointments?
on what planet after his performance on sunday was Bin the right man for the Safes again? Luke Pearce or Nika Amashukeli don't get quarter final ore semi-final? Fking twats
I drink and I forget things.
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topofthemoon
- Posts: 289
- Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:22 pm
Aye, my guess is he's the number 5 ref and taking the slot that should have been Peypers's. Means that Peyper has been bombed out of taking charge of a semi in back to back RWCs - injury this time and his photo with Welsh fans last time.Uncle fester wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:57 pmhttps://x.com/topofthemoongw/status/171 ... tRYAHubiTQtopofthemoon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 6:51 pm Angus Gardner & Ben O'Keeffe will be the 15th & 16th referees to take charge of a men's RWC semi-final.
O'Keeffe is the 1st Kiwi to ref a semi since Steve Walsh in 2007.
Gardner is the 1st Aussie to ref a semi since Kerry Fitzgerald in 1991.
Australia - 3 RWC semis refereed;
England - 2;
France - 2;
Ireland - 2;
New Zealand - 3;
Scotland - 3;
South Africa - 2;
Wales - 3.
Gardner is a break of recent trends.
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Insane_Homer
- Posts: 5389
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:14 pm
- Location: Leafy Surrey
“Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.”
Forgot about that!! Idiot.topofthemoon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:42 pm
Aye, my guess is he's the number 5 ref and taking the slot that should have been Peypers's. Means that Peyper has been bombed out of taking charge of a semi in back to back RWCs - injury this time and his photo with Welsh fans last time.
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Uncle fester
- Posts: 4192
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:42 pm
Remind me what this was?Sandstorm wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:31 amForgot about that!! Idiot.topofthemoon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:42 pm
Aye, my guess is he's the number 5 ref and taking the slot that should have been Peypers's. Means that Peyper has been bombed out of taking charge of a semi in back to back RWCs - injury this time and his photo with Welsh fans last time.
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average joe
- Posts: 1875
- Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:46 am
- Location: kuvukiland
Uncle fester wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:38 pmRemind me what this was?Sandstorm wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:31 amForgot about that!! Idiot.topofthemoon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:42 pm
Aye, my guess is he's the number 5 ref and taking the slot that should have been Peypers's. Means that Peyper has been bombed out of taking charge of a semi in back to back RWCs - injury this time and his photo with Welsh fans last time.
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Paddington Bear
- Posts: 5957
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:29 pm
- Location: Hertfordshire
Out both evenings farcically. Any Brits know how quickly ITV get the full games onto ITV X?
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
Huge advantage of our time-slot. 8am when you're retired is perfect.Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:30 pm Out both evenings farcically. Any Brits know how quickly ITV get the full games onto ITV X?
I drink and I forget things.
Yep, perfect viewing time in NZ.Enzedder wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:12 pmHuge advantage of our time-slot. 8am when you're retired is perfect.Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:30 pm Out both evenings farcically. Any Brits know how quickly ITV get the full games onto ITV X?
1 hourPaddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:30 pm Out both evenings farcically. Any Brits know how quickly ITV get the full games onto ITV X?
