Stop voting for fucking Tories

[I like neeps]

Which strategist is telling the Tories to invent a load of fake policies to come out against?

15 minute cities is about having everything you need within 15 minutes. Isn't that a good thing? How in any way is it bad?(Apart from it'll never happen because we don't develop infrastructure, have enough doctors, dentists, butchers and bakers).

[Insane_Homer]

BREAKING: Rishi Sunak faces another nightmare by-election in a Red Wall seat as an MP is set to be ousted over a lobbying scandal.
The Standards Committee is poised to suspend Scott Benton (Con, Blackpool South) for more than 10 days, which will trigger a process that will give his constituents the chance to remove him. (a recall petition)

[tabascoboy]

Which strategist is telling the Tories to invent a load of fake policies to come out against?

15 minute cities is about having everything you need within 15 minutes. Isn't that a good thing? How in any way is it bad?(Apart from it'll never happen because we don't develop infrastructure, have enough doctors, dentists, butchers and bakers).

Which is pretty much the case of how life was in the 1950s - the same period that ironically the Tories keep trying to take us back to...

[Slick]

Which strategist is telling the Tories to invent a load of fake policies to come out against?

15 minute cities is about having everything you need within 15 minutes. Isn't that a good thing? How in any way is it bad?(Apart from it'll never happen because we don't develop infrastructure, have enough doctors, dentists, butchers and bakers).

I actually just saw someone on social media earlier who was convinced that he would be kept in his 15 minute patch and would need a permit to leave. He seemed absolutely genuine.

[sockwithaticket]

Which strategist is telling the Tories to invent a load of fake policies to come out against?

15 minute cities is about having everything you need within 15 minutes. Isn't that a good thing? How in any way is it bad?(Apart from it'll never happen because we don't develop infrastructure, have enough doctors, dentists, butchers and bakers).

Well they can't exactly tout their record on anything and it might finally have dawned on them that, having been in power for the last 13 years, blaming Labour is somewhat falling on deaf ears. All they can really rail against is falsehoods.

[tabascoboy]

[C69]

Fuck The North

[I like neeps]

Which strategist is telling the Tories to invent a load of fake policies to come out against?

15 minute cities is about having everything you need within 15 minutes. Isn't that a good thing? How in any way is it bad?(Apart from it'll never happen because we don't develop infrastructure, have enough doctors, dentists, butchers and bakers).

I actually just saw someone on social media earlier who was convinced that he would be kept in his 15 minute patch and would need a permit to leave. He seemed absolutely genuine.

I'm sure he is genuine but that means that his critical thinking and rationality has been rotted by social media sadly.

[Sandstorm]

Fuck The North

That’s good advice. Fit and keen birds up there.

[sturginho]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... russ-group


It's official, they've gone completely fucking insane!

[ScarfaceClaw]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... russ-group


It's official, they've gone completely fucking insane!

I had to double check that wasn’t the daily mash. They can’t be seriously backing PM Lettuce.

[C69]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... russ-group


It's official, they've gone completely fucking insane!

I had to double check that wasn’t the daily mash. They can’t be seriously backing PM Lettuce.

Yes, yes they are.
They don't want a Tory Victory. They want a Trumpian rally after the loss and go full out and purge the Tory Party of Liberals and want to see GB news as the bellwheter for sensible opinion.
Truss' words earlier

[fishfoodie]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... russ-group


It's official, they've gone completely fucking insane!

I had to double check that wasn’t the daily mash. They can’t be seriously backing PM Lettuce.

Yes, yes they are.
They don't want a Tory Victory. They want a Trumpian rally after the loss and go full out and purge the Tory Party of Liberals and want to see GB news as the bellwheter for sensible opinion.
Truss' words earlier

Well you've had the same PM for a year now, surely you're due a new one ?

If the head boy had a pair of balls, he'd have a, "Back me, or Sack me", vote, & he'd deselect any of them that forgot who was their Leader.

The twat Farage was in the audience for this latest shitshow by Truss, along with the usual suspects amoungst his own MPs.

[Tichtheid]

Some people are still staring unblinking at a wall, slowly mouthing the words, "Labour will be worse" for hours on end.

[tabascoboy]

Rules? We don't need no stinking rules...

[ScarfaceClaw]

Some people are still staring unblinking at a wall, slowly mouthing the words, "Labour will be worse" for hours on end.

I think at this stage I could lob a handful of my own shite at the wall and that would be better than the likes of Lettuce Liz.

[Slick]

Rules? We don't need no stinking rules...

She is now saying it’s a lie. Her staff recorded all the meetings but “they forgot to send the returns”

[Margin__Walker]

This is a laugh. Still hunting for that Starmer meat tax

[Line6 HXFX]

Brilliant discussion on MSNBC about the rise of anti democratic movements in the USA.. (now lead by Steve Bannon) and he rise of authoritarianism.
Just reminding people that democracy is seriously under threat now..
How the right cannot get their stuff done through the demicratic process without destroying it, as their policies are deepy unpopular.to most of the country...How people have had enough of democracy (no matter who they vote for their rents, food, costs of childcare, healthcare and education just go up and up as wages stagnate) and how 35% just want a ruler or strongman to now take charge..and how these emotions have left the US in a very precarious situation.
If the Democrats are fighting elections like it is the nineties they will lose.

[tabascoboy]

I had to double check that wasn’t the daily mash. They can’t be seriously backing PM Lettuce.

Yes, yes they are.
They don't want a Tory Victory. They want a Trumpian rally after the loss and go full out and purge the Tory Party of Liberals and want to see GB news as the bellwheter for sensible opinion.
Truss' words earlier

Well you've had the same PM for a year now, surely you're due a new one ?

If the head boy had a pair of balls, he'd have a, "Back me, or Sack me", vote, & he'd deselect any of them that forgot who was their Leader.

The twat Farage was in the audience for this latest shitshow by Truss, along with the usual suspects amoungst his own MPs.

Trying to imagine more of a shitshow combination than a Truss & Farage led new party - and it' just not happening

[Hal Jordan]

Rules? We don't need no stinking rules...

She's also had a go at charities daring to wonder if the Government has been a trifle silly with a policy, and shouldn't get public money if they do. In her words, as the Government should "be allowed to mark our own homework".

Authoritarian as they come.

[SaintK]

So every time she opens her mouth she puts both feet in!!

[sockwithaticket]

This is a laugh. Still hunting for that Starmer meat tax

Good for her continuing to point out that the meat tax is made up, but we need journos to really start hammering all these bullshit pronouncements.

ULEZ costing families £12.50 a day - take your pick of it was a Boris policy, you'll be reducing deaths and improving health (thereby reducing strain on the NHS) and 90%> of people don't have to pay it.

Decarbonising the electricity grid will result in very difficult choices for families - how? according to who?

Pushing inflation by borrowing £28 billion - a) even before Covid government borrowing was spiralling under Tories, so who are they to criticise b) borrowing money isn't inherently bad. All governments do it all the time. So long as it's invested in something useful (and not trousered by donors or mate's companies) it can very much be good.

[Slick]

If you read back on this thread a couple of years ago you will see I was pretty dismissive of a lot of the claims of posters on the direction of travel of this government. Yeah, I was very wrong about that.

This conference is utterly unbelievable, I've never seen or heard anything like it. I'm sitting at home furious. Jesus.

[Slick]

This is a laugh. Still hunting for that Starmer meat tax

Good for her continuing to point out that the meat tax is made up, but we need journos to really start hammering all these bullshit pronouncements.

ULEZ costing families £12.50 a day - take your pick of it was a Boris policy, you'll be reducing deaths and improving health (thereby reducing strain on the NHS) and 90%> of people don't have to pay it.

Decarbonising the electricity grid will result in very difficult choices for families - how? according to who?

Pushing inflation by borrowing £28 billion - a) even before Covid government borrowing was spiralling under Tories, so who are they to criticise b) borrowing money isn't inherently bad. All governments do it all the time. So long as it's invested in something useful (and not trousered by donors or mate's companies) it can very much be good.

This. I was listening to Evan Davies this morning talking with Andrew Bowie about the 15 minute cities bullshit. There were so many opportunities to skewer him that were missed, really frustrating.

[shaggy]

This is a laugh. Still hunting for that Starmer meat tax

Good for her continuing to point out that the meat tax is made up, but we need journos to really start hammering all these bullshit pronouncements.

ULEZ costing families £12.50 a day - take your pick of it was a Boris policy, you'll be reducing deaths and improving health (thereby reducing strain on the NHS) and 90%> of people don't have to pay it.

Decarbonising the electricity grid will result in very difficult choices for families - how? according to who?

Pushing inflation by borrowing £28 billion - a) even before Covid government borrowing was spiralling under Tories, so who are they to criticise b) borrowing money isn't inherently bad. All governments do it all the time. So long as it's invested in something useful (and not trousered by donors or mate's companies) it can very much be good.

Not specifically you but you can’t pour scorn on Conservatives for blaming all the woes on Labour and also blame the current ULEZ expansion on Boris.

It has been rolled out too quick, 9 months notice is not enough time to enable motorists to adapt when vehicle supply, especially electric, has not recovered from the supply chain issues.

[tabascoboy]

If this poll is accurate reflection of public opinion, the Tories seeming intent on tearing themselves into two warring factions would be a spectacularly pointless process - but could be fun to watch



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And Braverman as repulsive as ever today

[sockwithaticket]

This is a laugh. Still hunting for that Starmer meat tax

Good for her continuing to point out that the meat tax is made up, but we need journos to really start hammering all these bullshit pronouncements.

ULEZ costing families £12.50 a day - take your pick of it was a Boris policy, you'll be reducing deaths and improving health (thereby reducing strain on the NHS) and 90%> of people don't have to pay it.

Decarbonising the electricity grid will result in very difficult choices for families - how? according to who?

Pushing inflation by borrowing £28 billion - a) even before Covid government borrowing was spiralling under Tories, so who are they to criticise b) borrowing money isn't inherently bad. All governments do it all the time. So long as it's invested in something useful (and not trousered by donors or mate's companies) it can very much be good.

Not specifically you but you can’t pour scorn on Conservatives for blaming all the woes on Labour and also blame the current ULEZ expansion on Boris.

It has been rolled out too quick, 9 months notice is not enough time to enable motorists to adapt when vehicle supply, especially electric, has not recovered from the supply chain issues.

It was introduced with pretty significant input from a very recent Tory prime minister and the Tories are currently trying to spin it as a wholly Labour initiative in an invented 'war on motorists'.

Did Boris still back ULEZ by the time he left office? What was the Tory party consensus on it? If the Tory party has been against it in principal, why are we only hearing about it since the Uxbridge by-election? Those are relevant questions to my mind and speak more to exposing (yet more) hypocrisy or lack of actual conviction in what seems to be the current party consensus rather than trying to pin the decision on the Conservatives. To do so would be daft, Khan is clearly a supporter of the policy and happy for it to go ahead. The broader Labour party position isn't so clear, but no one seems to think it's so electorally important as for it to be worth drawing swords with Khan over.

[I like neeps]

This is a laugh. Still hunting for that Starmer meat tax

Good for her continuing to point out that the meat tax is made up, but we need journos to really start hammering all these bullshit pronouncements.

ULEZ costing families £12.50 a day - take your pick of it was a Boris policy, you'll be reducing deaths and improving health (thereby reducing strain on the NHS) and 90%> of people don't have to pay it.

Decarbonising the electricity grid will result in very difficult choices for families - how? according to who?

Pushing inflation by borrowing £28 billion - a) even before Covid government borrowing was spiralling under Tories, so who are they to criticise b) borrowing money isn't inherently bad. All governments do it all the time. So long as it's invested in something useful (and not trousered by donors or mate's companies) it can very much be good.

This. I was listening to Evan Davies this morning talking with Andrew Bowie about the 15 minute cities bullshit. There were so many opportunities to skewer him that were missed, really frustrating.

You have to remember a significant number of the journos in follow an editorial direction that isn't really interested in holding the Tories to account on fibs and most actively promote those fibs anyway.

[tabascoboy]

[tabascoboy]

some staffer had to quickly exercise an attempt at damage control

[petej]

If you read back on this thread a couple of years ago you will see I was pretty dismissive of a lot of the claims of posters on the direction of travel of this government. Yeah, I was very wrong about that.

This conference is utterly unbelievable, I've never seen or heard anything like it. I'm sitting at home furious. Jesus.

There is no one left bar loonies. The none loonies have been unbelievably spineless.

[I like neeps]

If this poll is accurate reflection of public opinion, the Tories seeming intent on tearing themselves into two warring factions would be a spectacularly pointless process - but could be fun to watch



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And Braverman as repulsive as ever today

It does seem strange that the free market idealouges have decided to rally around Liz Truss, a PM who resigned due to the public finding her a total joke, and thinking she is going to remake herself and become popular. Surely you can hold those beliefs that she was right but rally behind one who doesn't have that stink? They used to be good at politics if not at policy but now they aren't even good at that.

[shaggy]

Good for her continuing to point out that the meat tax is made up, but we need journos to really start hammering all these bullshit pronouncements.

ULEZ costing families £12.50 a day - take your pick of it was a Boris policy, you'll be reducing deaths and improving health (thereby reducing strain on the NHS) and 90%> of people don't have to pay it.

Decarbonising the electricity grid will result in very difficult choices for families - how? according to who?

Pushing inflation by borrowing £28 billion - a) even before Covid government borrowing was spiralling under Tories, so who are they to criticise b) borrowing money isn't inherently bad. All governments do it all the time. So long as it's invested in something useful (and not trousered by donors or mate's companies) it can very much be good.

Not specifically you but you can’t pour scorn on Conservatives for blaming all the woes on Labour and also blame the current ULEZ expansion on Boris.

It has been rolled out too quick, 9 months notice is not enough time to enable motorists to adapt when vehicle supply, especially electric, has not recovered from the supply chain issues.

It was introduced with pretty significant input from a very recent Tory prime minister and the Tories are currently trying to spin it as a wholly Labour initiative in an invented 'war on motorists'.

Did Boris still back ULEZ by the time he left office? What was the Tory party consensus on it? If the Tory party has been against it in principal, why are we only hearing about it since the Uxbridge by-election? Those are relevant questions to my mind and speak more to exposing (yet more) hypocrisy or lack of actual conviction in what seems to be the current party consensus rather than trying to pin the decision on the Conservatives. To do so would be daft, Khan is clearly a supporter of the policy and happy for it to go ahead. The broader Labour party position isn't so clear, but no one seems to think it's so electorally important as for it to be worth drawing swords with Khan over.

Emissions controls are relevant in central London but out in Old Coulsdon or Biggin Hill, really?

I’m not interested in the politics of it all, only the impact it is having on people who cannot afford this level of change in such a short time.

[Line6 HXFX]

I used to live 2 miles from a steel works (used to have a hot mill when I was a kid) and 3 miles from a colliery, both pumped out pollution on litterally an industrial scale..and in a valley where the pollution is funneled up it, on windy days straight to my housing estate, at the mouth of the deep narrow valley... and walking around London over 2 days (went to see a rush concert) was significantly worse.

My nostrils were dry and felt coated for weeks.

How do you deal with it if you have to live there?
Doesn't it affect your kids terribly?

I couldn't handle it.

You need bold radical unpopular solutions fellas..if that means being priced outta cars, and everyone on electric buses trains and bicycles or more people working from home.. and pushing a hippy vision of turning everywhere with roads into community gardens.. we should get behind it.

[_Os_]

If you read back on this thread a couple of years ago you will see I was pretty dismissive of a lot of the claims of posters on the direction of travel of this government. Yeah, I was very wrong about that.

This conference is utterly unbelievable, I've never seen or heard anything like it. I'm sitting at home furious. Jesus.

There is no one left bar loonies. The none loonies have been unbelievably spineless.

You mean the reasonable guys like this that welcome scumbag Farage?



There's two big trends that matter in UK politics.

The first is that the Tory party has been totally consumed by the far right. There's seriously loony shit driving them now, full on no holds barred conspiracies: 15 minute city conspiracies, anti-vax conspiracies, climate conspiracies, and even conspiracies of their own making "the blob", the "remainer elite", the "liberal metropolitan elite". Most Tories are now completely irrational. A "non-loony Tory" is a very relative thing, likely has no power, and always ends up mumbling support for the latest mad ramblings from a Tory Big Dog anyway. The carnival of madness at this conference is just further progression from the last Tory conference, it shows how little control Sunak has over the party and how most of the MPs are weak non-entities their members simply ignore. Sunak isn't in control.

To understand what happened means going back about a decade to when the BNP had 1 million voters. The BNP were threatening to displace UKIP/Farage, so Farage absorbed these voters and I suspect many members too (I'm sure UKIP vetting was extremely rigorous), but not the BNP leadership who were sent into the wilderness. UKIP then grows and the Tories shit themselves, hold the referendum and set out on the Brexit adventure. During that adventure the Tories absorb all the UKIP voters, members, and a lot of their leadership. This is why Tory councillors pop up who are ex-BNP and/or ex-Britain First. The real issue is how radicalised the Tory membership now is.

The second is that Labour isn't that popular. If you dig into polling, Reform has taken some Tory voters (the ones who think this Tory party are commies and/or not white enough) and a lot of other Tory voters are apathetic. I've simplified, but that captures a lot of what is happening in the polling, a small amount of Tory voters have decided they prefer full strength fascism and no half measures, and a larger group have given up entirely.

This creates the two likely future paths ...

1.

The least likely of the two imo, maybe 40% probability. But the one a lot of the media/public seems to be expecting.

Labour get in with a large majority, Tories with around 100 seats. Starmer somehow improves the circumstances of the UK in a single term, nothing radical changes because he's promising nothing radical, but things improve. The Tories see the error of their ways and realise they're now unelectable and return to something like the position they held pre-Brexit. Somehow everything reverts to a pre-Brexit and pre-2008 GFC status quo. Everything "goes back to normal" and "politics becomes boring again". It's back to New Labour but with the UK in a worse economic position than when New Labour were last in power. Somehow Brexit is also "made to work" without any re-opening of the argument about SM/CU.

2.

The more likely of the two imo, 60% probability.

Labour get in with a large majority, Tories with around 100 seats. But the Tories don't reform themselves or return to any previous version of the party, they get more radical because that's where most of their membership is. The conspiracy nuts start setting more of their agenda, they get more anti-climate change, they get more anti-immigrant, they probably get more racist too. Maybe they even end up being led by Farage, they're still keen on Truss and Johnson, Braverman is making her leadership run, so going the whole way and picking the real Farage as leader could be possible. Starmer struggles to make any positive changes given the economy he has been given, whilst also trying to change not much and appease the right wing billionaire owned media (the New Labour strategy). Starmer ends up under siege from the left inside his own party, who try to replace him because they see nothing happening. Apathetic Tories return to the Tory party, having been whipped up by the right wing media into blaming Labour for the mess they were given by the Tories, above all blaming Labour for immigration, but also being fearful of the Labour left. Tory polling numbers then go from the 25% to 30% they are now, to the 35%+ they need to win a GE. An even more stupid and more corrupt version of the Tory party is then put back into power, maybe headed by Farage.

Over a quarter of the UK population still supports the Tories, and Tory MPs including the "reasonable" ones would welcome Farage joining the party. Everything can always get worse.

[Simian]

wtaf?

[_Os_]

It does seem strange that the free market idealouges have decided to rally around Liz Truss, a PM who resigned due to the public finding her a total joke, and thinking she is going to remake herself and become popular. Surely you can hold those beliefs that she was right but rally behind one who doesn't have that stink? They used to be good at politics if not at policy but now they aren't even good at that.

The same happens to African nationalist parties that are given unfaltering support no matter how they govern or what they do. The entire quality of the party descends into the pits of hell, but the support mostly remains intact and if anything becomes more hardcore and radical. Because the supporters are still there there's no need to change anything.

They're polling at 25% to 30% and usually closer to 30%. Once Labour are in power what happens to their polling? If Labour struggle then Tory polling goes up, it doesn't need to increase by much to reach the magic 35% at which point they can think about winning a GE.

There's a none zero chance Farage becomes Tory leader, they're all saying he's welcome to join them. I'm sure the totally rational Tory membership (who will be back in play once the Tories are out of power) can be relied upon to not select him, and instead pick Liz the Lettuce again, or Braverman, or Johnson again.

[fishfoodie]

wtaf?

I this the same fuckers that are abandoning all the Net Zero commitments they made ? ... you know, the ones backed by science, & only opposed by wingnuts for Culture wars reasons ?

[Tichtheid]

Braverman getting photographed standing on a dog’s tail at the Tory conference is straight out of The Thick of It - “tell me it wasn’t a fucking guide dog… oh of course it was a fucking guide dog for fuck’s sake”