As the dust settles - RWC debrief

[Paddington Bear]

Coudn't have asked for more
South Africa. Remarkable route that I'm not convinced they could take successfully if they re-ran the tournament 20 times, but they don't need it to. I called NZ as champs pre-tournament and still feel that held up pretty well, but I remember a couple of times as the tournament went on Chris Jones on the BBC stating that the Webb Ellis trophy would have to be prised from Rassie's cold hands, and the worst part was he was absolutely right. Can't blame them for being ecstatic, it's a hell of an achievement.

Portugal. Announced themselves as a developing rugby nation to be taken seriously. Did anyone see that coming?

Pretty pleased
New Zealand. A point and a missed kick away from being world champs. I think most kiwis would have taken that after the thumping at Twickers and the opening night. Maybe Foster knew a little more than he was given credit for.

England. The draw the draw the draw but England did everything that could have been asked of them and were a stroke of luck away from a final. Certainly over the three knock out games, it was only England that caused the Boks to panic, albeit briefly. Talk of going out in the group died rather quickly in a 20 point thumping of Argentina a man down. There remain serious question marks about this team but third is a decent return and pretty much everyone would have taken that pre-tournament.

Argentina. Won their cup final in Marseille. Not a vintage Pumas who did fairly well. Losing to England twice has to sting though.

Uruguay. Highly creditable in defeat to France and Italy. Improving all the time and fun to watch.

Chile. Hard to place but they were fun viewing in parts. Nobody expected much.

Leaving a trail of regrets
France. Their loss tore the heart out of the tournament and by god they played well in a losing cause. Will they ever have a more glaring opportunity to finally win it?

Ireland. It would take a heart of stone not to laugh. Already the chat had started of it being the greatest achievement in sports, then they met the ABs. They may well be back but they'll have some serious shoes to fill first. I wonder just how bad psychologically another QF defeat might be. They would have destroyed Argentina in the semi and had a good grasp of the Boks.

Fiji. They should have beaten Wales, Portugal and maybe England. Their composure and line out let them down at key times. You sense they set higher standards for themselves, and certainly should do. Gave a good account of Pacific rugby when generally Tonga and Samoa did not.

Japan. After an hour vs England and Argentina were well in it. At 80 they were not. A let down on four years ago, still hopeful they can establish themselves as an Argentina level side.

Georgia. Given how Australia collapsed later on they should be pretty furious at their performance against them, likewise their profligacy against Fiji and Portugal, both games they should have won. Then we may have had a different complexion when they got within a score of Wales towards the end. A QF gone begging and yet again they fluff their lines on stage when there might be a chance of greater recognition.

Wales. Had Argentina beat. You'd think they'd have given a better account in the semi.

Scotland. The draw was cruel but they barely fired a shot and seemed to have mentally accepted their fate long before it was mathematically confirmed.

Tonga. Lots of chat pre-tournament for a side who's plan was essentially truck it up then give it to Piatau. Hard group but weren't up to much.

Samoa. Sure they nearly beat England but why describe a game as your 'cup final' when you've already been eliminated by being beaten by two very beatable teams? A qf was a genuine possibility for a better version of themselves.

My eyes my eyes make it stop

Italy. Truly pathetic and many big steps back from a decent 6N. There has to have been a falling out in the camp.

Romania. Sad to see, albeit were a bit better against Tonga. A shadow of even a decade ago.

Namibia. Can't fault their effort but they're just not good enough and never are.

Australia. Lol.


As a world cup? Went on too long, only really a couple of games that really upset the applecart, crowds were excellent. It's a shame that next time goes back to a crappy time zone. I actually like the expansion to 24 as we get to knockout games quicker. Games like the final pool round (Wales Georgia, England Samoa etc) would all have been very viable last 16 games and would have been good fun.
SA were worthy if dull winners, it would be nice to see the trophy return to Europe some time. The tier 2 sides clearly have difficulties breaking down modern defences which doesn't help the contest. Reffing was wildly inconsistent and generally helpful to the larger sides. No idea why it's so prevalent.

Overall though it's great to have a festival of rugby, if for nothing else but to confirm something I'd suspected for a bit but now have empirical proof of - that England are a better side than France, Ireland and Scotland.

[PCPhil]

Pretty good summary.

[SaintK]

Pretty good summary.

Yep

[Niegs]

Anyone else feel they don't care as much any more, or are possibly heading toward it with a "Not the World Cup, but pretty much a World Cup" every other year?

I made zero effort to watch yesterday and was like "Ah well..." at the score, esp given those two had already played each other twice this year. I fear it'll go the route of 7s in my mind where they basically have a 'World Cup' every few weeks, and then also a World Cup and Olympics. Yawn.

I only seem to get excited for club good club match-ups. And not like I have the opportunity otherwise given that I live on the edge of the rugby world, but would more happily throw some attention and money non-pro clubs' way (and do, locally) than the top flight.

[Enzedder]

I just want to play against England at the moment.

[Guy Smiley]

I guess it's become fairly routine now but the latest showpiece of the game highlights a lot of what's wrong, or not going right for rugby as a sport.

The way the TMO and review process is being used.... I don't have an issue with cards or the outcomes from the final, but surely when you can have a try called back and disallowed after video review, you can do the same with an incorrect penalty call? The use of technology to overrule the ref's onfield decisions is one thing... using it properly is another. Likewise with a halfback being impeded at a scrum... if we can find some breach of regulations in general play and alert the ref, why not find ALL of them?

'Growing the game'... ah yeah, righto. Let's just not grow it outside of the top tier too much, hey? Passion among supporters of teams such as Uruguay, Portugal and Georgia could be harnessed with regular fixturing involving those teams in the fucking 'global calendar' instead of serving up more and more of the same white bread and butter shit involving the select inner circle sides.

Eddie Jones. What a toxic cunt.

[Gumboot]

Lots for a rugby purist to like about the Final, and plenty to dislike and frustrate long-suffering supporters who find the officiating increasingly difficult to understand.

But as an advertisement for the game on the global stage? Not sure anyone new to watching test rugby would be terribly inspired to embrace the game, tbh.

Such a shame about the early, stuffed up draw determining that top sides wouldn't progress beyond the QFs before the tournament even kicked off. Also disappointing that Ireland and (esp) France didn't make the last two weeks. Wanted to see a lot more of Dupont - what a superb player!

Anyway, it's done and dusted, and full credit to SA for winning after some titanic struggles. Fully deserve their title.

Kudos to Foster for getting us a fortnight deeper than I thought he would. That win over Ireland was a cracker. But it's been a pretty shit last few years overall...

Roll on 2024. Can't wait for Razor's first squad naming!

[OomStruisbaai]

The WC tournament is very overrated and should not be the top accolade or tournament in rugby. All rugby is driven around the tournament like players and coaches cycles.

Rugby's real values started at the bottom structure, in SA it will be the 7 year olds in grade 1. Suppose that will be the same as club rugby up north. You need to get the bottom youth team to the rugby.

Winning the WC is a nice to have nothing more.

South Africa has made history with WCs but I am so over it and will rate an long All Blacks vs Springbok tour much higher then winning the WC.

You lot complain about the rules and refs and put much to high importance in the way the Springboks play. Fuck man, what about the kids playing tag and the refs at school or youth level. Thats where all the attention and importance should go.

Rugby have reach a high in South Africa and will grow and grow and grow while the rest will try to bend and change rules.

At the end of the day, its a sport for all shapes and sizes and scrumming and lineouts is unique in this sport.

[Gumboot]

To be crystal clear, I'm in no way trying to make loser excuses or blame anyone for the result.

This is a very fine Boks side; up there with their very best of the pro era imho. Maybe not getting the plaudits they deserve yet, but history will judge them highly.

Only the 2011-2015 All Blacks are in the same discussion.

[OomStruisbaai]

To be crystal clear, I'm in no way trying to make loser excuses or blame anyone for the result.

This is a very fine Boks side; up there with their very best of the pro era imho. Maybe not getting the plaudits they deserve yet, but history will judge them highly.

Only the 2011-2015 All Blacks are in the same discussion.

You can be sure that in South Africa Siya Kolisi is the most popular figure and its all due to South Africa performance in the World Cup. What did we achieve.
1. The most WC's
2. Boks never lost a WC final
3. Only Boks and All Blacks could defend the title
4. Only Boks could lose a pool match and win the title.
5. Its the first time that a team played against the top 6 ranks team in one tournament.
6. All Blacks only lost against the Boks in the finals.
7. Everytime the Boks won the WC, the Cheetahs won the CC

Thats the stats.

Like Kwagga qouted: We won it for our Springbok fans and South Africa.

Fuck the rest.

[Paddington Bear]

I just want to play against England at the moment.

Given that in our last match up you managed to blow a 19 point lead in 8 minutes against a side that had just lost to an undercooked Argentina, had morale at all time lows and sporting a 10/12 combo that struggled to manage a 6N try a game, I for one say bring it on

[Gumboot]

Its the first time that a team played against the top 6 ranks team in one tournament.

And beat them all.

In the end, they made it look like the draw wasn't even much of a factor.

[OomStruisbaai]

Its the first time that a team played against the top 6 ranks team in one tournament.

And beat them all.

In the end, they made it look like the draw wasn't even much of a factor.

No we lost against Ireland

[Gumboot]

Shit, almost forgot that Ireland beat SA in pool play. Fat lot of good it did them.

[OomStruisbaai]

Shit, almost forgot that Ireland beat SA in pool play. Fat lot of good it did them.

Yes Springboks success rate is 50% in World Cups.

[Guy Smiley]

No one is complaining about the refs or the rules Oom, or the Springboks.

You just seem to see it that way all the time.

[Sards]

I have been a bit meh since the victory on saturday night. We were current holders and are still current holders so nothing changes. All the criticism of the boks and Rassies game plan is quite a joke really. Its not like the rugby world was taken by surprise. The team selected for the finals has been at this for years , so if you cannot plan to beat that what kind of a coach or team of players are you anyway. You dont deserve it simple. I just think its sour grapes , especially all the ref whinging from France and England . For me this was the saddest part of the RWC.....I hope to never , ever have to deal with this bullshit again from bitter sore losers that are obviously devastated fans and players. What must the children think

[average joe]

Besides the actual rugby and the fact that my team won, it's been one of if not the kakest WC I've experienced.

The opening ceremony: a complete mess and Trevor's little victory dance at the end was more entertaining to watch.
The singing of the anthems: Miserably inadequate for an event of such importance. Great to get kids involved but then why balls it up with pre-recordings, and not letting the kids be at the games was bullshit.
The colourblind stich up: So many other ways to have gone about it.
The officiating: Ja, let's not talk about it, it should come right by itself, right?
Kick-off times: Perhaps the French like to watch rugby till 10 on a Sunday night but this is a global event and it's kak to sit with a hangover at work on a Monday morning. Play games late on a Friday and Saturday but if you have to have games on a Sunday make it early.
After game content: The complete block out off any match footage other than the official highlights was a kak idea. Especially if you consider how kak WR's official highlights packages were.

Believe there was some issues with crowd control as well. I can't really comment on this though.

[Gumboot]

No one is complaining about the refs or the rules Oom, or the Springboks.

You just seem to see it that way all the time.

I cranked the music up stupidly loud with all the windows and doors open for most of yesterday arvo. Blew off steam by attacking a couple of abstract acrylics involving loads of washy tape and Joy Division and other substances. Had a blast, and not too displeased with the results, but by fuck I've been suffering ever since!

PS And my neighbours must hate me.

[OomStruisbaai]

Time for South Africa to host a decent World Cup. Next one in Australia. The World Cup should be hosted by a rugby mad country.

[Gumboot]

Time for South Africa to host a decent World Cup. Next one in Australia. The World Cup should be hosted by a rugby mad country.

Instead you have to wait behind rugby powerhouse America for another chance to host it. Go figure.

[SaintK]

I have been a bit meh since the victory on saturday night. We were current holders and are still current holders so nothing changes. All the criticism of the boks and Rassies game plan is quite a joke really. Its not like the rugby world was taken by surprise. The team selected for the finals has been at this for years , so if you cannot plan to beat that what kind of a coach or team of players are you anyway. You dont deserve it simple. I just think its sour grapes , especially all the ref whinging from France and England . For me this was the saddest part of the RWC.....I hope to never , ever have to deal with this bullshit again from bitter sore losers that are obviously devastated fans and players. What must the children think

Only France and England whinged about the refereeing?
Do fuck off of you one eyed twat

[Sandstorm]

Why judge the quality of this RWC on the final? Apart from 2019 they’re always tight games that only the officinadoes “get”. Don’t forget the anti-rugby SA kicked 4 years ago in Japan during our pool games and 1/4 either.

Occasional fans I know were in awe of NZ v Ireland or Boks v France the last few weeks.

[Gumboot]

Fangle would've enjoyed this.

[Sards]

Only France and England whinged about the refereeing?
Do fuck off of you one eyed twat

It was almost unbearable.
Talking as a Springbok supporter. The RWC holders and World number 1 ranked team

[Slick]

Only France and England whinged about the refereeing?
Do fuck off of you one eyed twat

It was almost unbearable.
Talking as a Springbok supporter. The RWC holders and World number 1 ranked team

Not enough videos or family death threats for you?

[SaintK]

Only France and England whinged about the refereeing?
Do fuck off of you one eyed twat

It was almost unbearable.
Talking as a Springbok supporter. The RWC holders and World number 1 ranked team

Whatever. Doesn't stop you being an utter cunt about it.

[Slick]

Obviously a wee bit clouded by being Scottish as the whole thing just passed us by really. Didn't feel as if we had got started and we were already out of it.

I think SA deserved to win. To win a QF, SF and final by a single point is pretty remarkable and that fact alone makes them deserved winners.

Overall though I really didn't enjoy the whole thing and it has honestly made we wonder if it's really for me any longer. I'll definitely be keeping away from social media in future. Had a conversation yesterday about the amount of energy I put into watching versus the enjoyment I actually get and if I'm honest, it's not worth it. All the drama, play acting, ref bashing, cynicism, arguments - I just don't want it or need it.

i think the other realisation is that however long we do this for it's really always going to be about which one of NZ or SA lose it. They are the dominant rugby nations and always will be. Oz look spent for a long time, I suspect Ireland will go into a bit of a downward spiral, France are going to be back on the red wine and fags now the home tournament has gone. It's really only England that can mount a serious challenge with their resources.

I'll look forward to the 6N as always, but I can't see me bothering with this global league nonsense, Lions or World Cups.

[inactionman]

Disappointed to see Eddie Jones has screwed over Oz in a subtly different but equally annyong manner to the way he screwed England.

I worry for Japan, if that's where he ends up.

[SaintK]

Obviously a wee bit clouded by being Scottish as the whole thing just passed us by really. Didn't feel as if we had got started and we were already out of it.

I think SA deserved to win. To win a QF, SF and final by a single point is pretty remarkable and that fact alone makes them deserved winners.

Overall though I really didn't enjoy the whole thing and it has honestly made we wonder if it's really for me any longer. I'll definitely be keeping away from social media in future. Had a conversation yesterday about the amount of energy I put into watching versus the enjoyment I actually get and if I'm honest, it's not worth it. All the drama, play acting, ref bashing, cynicism, arguments - I just don't want it or need it.

i think the other realisation is that however long we do this for it's really always going to be about which one of NZ or SA lose it. They are the dominant rugby nations and always will be. Oz look spent for a long time, I suspect Ireland will go into a bit of a downward spiral, France are going to be back on the red wine and fags now the home tournament has gone. It's really only England that can mount a serious challenge with their resources.

I'll look forward to the 6N as always, but I can't see me bothering with this global league nonsense, Lions or World Cups.

Was discussing your first highlighted point with a couple of Kiwi members at my club yesterday and we all agreed it was a pretty remarkable feat and pretty well deserved.

Don't agree with the lower point. I think Ireland and France will still be the leading teams in Europe for the forseeable future. England have to decide on a style they are going to play and build a team to execute it. The recources are there but the pathway needs rebuilding completely and better player development put in place. Wales and Sotland will always spring a surprise or two and be very ccompetetive.

Agree with regards the "global league" it is unwanted and won't help the Tier 2 nations in the sligfhtest

[assfly]

Most people I have spoken to have rugby fatigue. Not just from the match itself, but all the stuff that goes on around it.

For the next few weeks I think I'll catch the odd URC game, but looking forward to actually relaxing and spending time with my family on weekends

[Lobby]

Obviously a wee bit clouded by being Scottish as the whole thing just passed us by really. Didn't feel as if we had got started and we were already out of it.

I think SA deserved to win. To win a QF, SF and final by a single point is pretty remarkable and that fact alone makes them deserved winners.

Overall though I really didn't enjoy the whole thing and it has honestly made we wonder if it's really for me any longer. I'll definitely be keeping away from social media in future. Had a conversation yesterday about the amount of energy I put into watching versus the enjoyment I actually get and if I'm honest, it's not worth it. All the drama, play acting, ref bashing, cynicism, arguments - I just don't want it or need it.

i think the other realisation is that however long we do this for it's really always going to be about which one of NZ or SA lose it. They are the dominant rugby nations and always will be. Oz look spent for a long time, I suspect Ireland will go into a bit of a downward spiral, France are going to be back on the red wine and fags now the home tournament has gone. It's really only England that can mount a serious challenge with their resources.

I'll look forward to the 6N as always, but I can't see me bothering with this global league nonsense, Lions or World Cups.

Was discussing your first highlighted point with a couple of Kiwi members at my club yesterday and we all agreed it was a pretty remarkable feat and pretty well deserved.

Don't agree with the lower point. I think Ireland and France will still be the leading teams in Europe for the forseeable future. England have to decide on a style they are going to play and build a team to execute it. The recources are there but the pathway needs rebuilding completely and better player development put in place. Wales and Sotland will always spring a surprise or two and be very ccompetetive.

Agree with regards the "global league" it is unwanted and won't help the Tier 2 nations in the sligfhtest

There is a stat on the BBC website of the aggregate margin of victory in the knock out stages for each of the RWC winners.

South Africa's margin of 3 points over the QF, SF and Final is by some margin the lowest. I think that really shows what a tough route they had to even get to the Final, let alone win. Managing to win each of those games despite the incredibly tight margins each time really highlights the character of their team.

[Blake]

I guess it's become fairly routine now but the latest showpiece of the game highlights a lot of what's wrong, or not going right for rugby as a sport.

This sentence sums it up perfectly for me too. Yes, it is a showpiece, but because of the unreasonable expectations and pressure from fans it also puts a magnifying glass all the cracks in the game. Which is why there are usually a slew of changes after each cycle.

I only remember the changes that hurt the Boks (obviously), but the changes have mostly been for the better and forced us to evolve. I expect that after this world cup there will be some changes and tweaks to how head contact is officiated, how the TMO gets involved (or not), some tweaks to guidelines pertaining to rucks, and possibly some restrictions on substitutions.

And I don't really have an qualms if those areas are tightened up a bit.

[Sards]

Only France and England whinged about the refereeing?
Do fuck off of you one eyed twat

It was almost unbearable.
Talking as a Springbok supporter. The RWC holders and World number 1 ranked team

Whatever. Doesn't stop you being an utter cunt about it.

I think you lot now realize how it looks and feels. Let this be a lesson to not be such cocks next time.

[OomStruisbaai]

Not long ago the Springboks struggled to win away from home. Also take into account the NH countries play at home against all the SH countries (which include shite teams like Samoa, Fiji and Wallabies) but away against one SH country. Lets look how Ireland will do next year playing in South Africa.

Playing a series iso a once off is something different.

[Paddington Bear]

Obviously a wee bit clouded by being Scottish as the whole thing just passed us by really. Didn't feel as if we had got started and we were already out of it.

I think SA deserved to win. To win a QF, SF and final by a single point is pretty remarkable and that fact alone makes them deserved winners.

Overall though I really didn't enjoy the whole thing and it has honestly made we wonder if it's really for me any longer. I'll definitely be keeping away from social media in future. Had a conversation yesterday about the amount of energy I put into watching versus the enjoyment I actually get and if I'm honest, it's not worth it. All the drama, play acting, ref bashing, cynicism, arguments - I just don't want it or need it.

i think the other realisation is that however long we do this for it's really always going to be about which one of NZ or SA lose it. They are the dominant rugby nations and always will be. Oz look spent for a long time, I suspect Ireland will go into a bit of a downward spiral, France are going to be back on the red wine and fags now the home tournament has gone. It's really only England that can mount a serious challenge with their resources.

I'll look forward to the 6N as always, but I can't see me bothering with this global league nonsense, Lions or World Cups.

I get the sentiment but France definitely have a higher ceiling than us. France is bigger than England, it has more of a rugby heartland and has had much more success breaking out of its traditional followers recently. They came very close to getting all of it together the last few years and if they keep their heads will do so soon enough.

[OomStruisbaai]

Well I think France have a good future if you look at their juniors coming through the system. Thats where we all have to look at Ireland (Leinster). They have an excellent system bringing youngsters through. I watched last night Ulster playing and that ginger youngster 9 is some talent.

[Insane_Homer]

I thought France hosted an excellent tournament, the crowds and atmosphere at every game were excellent
(TV sync Anthems aside which only seemed to go out of sync when they shoved cameras in the player's faces)

8pm kick-offs for the UK were a bit of a pain but understandable with a global audience to cater for.

Headshot protocols needed to be ironed out beforehand, learning as we go led to too many perplexing and inconsistent decisions from the bunker.

The lop-sided draw really screwed up the QF and SF rounds.

[Tichtheid]

Leaving a trail of regrets


Scotland. The draw was cruel but they barely fired a shot and seemed to have mentally accepted their fate long before it was mathematically confirmed.

I'm not sure about that, Scotland did exactly as expected, dished out the required bullying of the T2 teams in the group and lost to the two teams especially equipped to dish out the bullying to us.
In the warm up games Scotland beat Italy handily, then struggled in the first half against a second string France before finally getting out of the changing rooms and going on the win comfortably in terms of the game. We then went on to lose by three points to full noise France in Saint-Ettiene, but we were scoring tries.

Going back further to the 6N, we rather shot ourselves in the foot against France before getting duffed up by Ireland.

The team is what it is, flaky under pressure but fun to watch when it clicks.

Do we regret doing exactly as expected? I don't particularly regret it, I'd rather we can find a way to beat those teams like South Africa and Ireland for sure, but do so playing the expansive style that we have.

[SaintK]

It was almost unbearable.
Talking as a Springbok supporter. The RWC holders and World number 1 ranked team

Whatever. Doesn't stop you being an utter cunt about it.

I think you lot now realize how it looks and feels. Let this be a lesson to not be such cocks next time.

yep, an utter twat!