Stop voting for fucking Tories

[I like neeps]

This is also an advert for giving people longer sentences. Why do we keep trying to rehabilitate violent offenders?

Well you have to let them out eventually. So why not put in place a system where they come out less violent than they went in?

Propensity for violent crime falls off a cliff as people age. For the kind of criminals I’m referencing genuine rehabilitation is generally a pipe dream. The primary purpose of criminal justice is to remove people who commit criminal acts from those who don’t, everything else is secondary

What are the reoffending rates for ABH/GBH? Very little online about it tbh

[Tichtheid]

We might like to try it before dismissing it. Rehabilitation efforts in this country are a way off nations that do it fairly successfully like the Scandis.

I remember looking this up extensively before, the recidivism rates were consistently lower in countries with the more so-called "liberal" penal systems, where the process is more about rehabilitation rather than punishment

Rehabilitation sounds way more expensive.

It's far less expensive when you count the cost of re-offending and having to go through several terms in jail, the police costs cost of investigating the crimes and putting them through the court system on multiple occasions. In the case of violent crime there is the cost of treating victims for their injuries and dealing with the mental health problems of the victim.

Then there are "softer" costs like the increase for all of us of insurance

Overall rehabilitation is far cheaper, just like prevention is way cheaper than treatment for just about anything, plus there is the reciprocal benefit of the person becoming a tax paying member of the community.

[Biffer]

Justice systems are about a mix of retridution, reparation and rehabilitation. We make a choice as a society what mix we use for what crime. I feel our mix is rather off.

[I like neeps]

We might like to try it before dismissing it. Rehabilitation efforts in this country are a way off nations that do it fairly successfully like the Scandis.

I remember looking this up extensively before, the recidivism rates were consistently lower in countries with the more so-called "liberal" penal systems, where the process is more about rehabilitation rather than punishment

Rehabilitation sounds way more expensive.

One prison place per year cost £50,000, I can't see how cutting the amount of people in prison through rehabilitation isn't cheaper than.

[Slick]

Justice systems are about a mix of retridution, reparation and rehabilitation. We make a choice as a society what mix we use for what crime. I feel our mix is rather off.

Funnily enough, I was having a chat yesterday with a guy from SG who was saying that Scotland is the worst in Europe for the number of criminals that go to prison. That surprised me.

[dpedin]

I remember looking this up extensively before, the recidivism rates were consistently lower in countries with the more so-called "liberal" penal systems, where the process is more about rehabilitation rather than punishment

Rehabilitation sounds way more expensive.

It's far less expensive when you count the cost of re-offending and having to go through several terms in jail, the police costs cost of investigating the crimes and putting them through the court system on multiple occasions. In the case of violent crime there is the cost of treating victims for their injuries and dealing with the mental health problems of the victim.

Then there are "softer" costs like the increase for all of us of insurance

Overall rehabilitation is far cheaper, just like prevention is way cheaper than treatment for just about anything, plus there is the reciprocal benefit of the person becoming a tax paying member of the community.

Definitely this! Think of it in quality terms - the cost of redoing things because of poor processes and bad quality issues is always far greater than just getting it right first time!

All we have is a system that warehouses offenders, gets them institutionally dependant, dehumanises them, destroys family connections, probably makes them drug dependant and inmates teach each other 'how to do crime better' next time. Even worse we then release them into a parole system that has been destroyed by the Tory fantasy of privatisation and what is left is unable to cope with the cases and the complexity. We are basically setting ourselves up to fail and to drive a slow but inexorable increase in the prison population that we cant house, cant staff and cant afford. Great long term planning!

[Tichtheid]

Rehabilitation sounds way more expensive.

It's far less expensive when you count the cost of re-offending and having to go through several terms in jail, the police costs cost of investigating the crimes and putting them through the court system on multiple occasions. In the case of violent crime there is the cost of treating victims for their injuries and dealing with the mental health problems of the victim.

Then there are "softer" costs like the increase for all of us of insurance

Overall rehabilitation is far cheaper, just like prevention is way cheaper than treatment for just about anything, plus there is the reciprocal benefit of the person becoming a tax paying member of the community.

Definitely this! Think of it in quality terms - the cost of redoing things because of poor processes and bad quality issues is always far greater than just getting it right first time!

All we have is a system that warehouses offenders, gets them institutionally dependant, dehumanises them, destroys family connections, probably makes them drug dependant and inmates teach each other 'how to do crime better' next time. Even worse we then release them into a parole system that has been destroyed by the Tory fantasy of privatisation and what is left is unable to cope with the cases and the complexity. We are basically setting ourselves up to fail and to drive a slow but inexorable increase in the prison population that we cant house, cant staff and cant afford. Great long term planning!

I lived on a plateau in the Pyrenees and there was a large-ish parcel of ground there owned by the Dutch government. They sent young offenders there, these were second or third time offenders, essentially teenagers who were off the rails. These kids were taught trades, they were re-building a farmhouse and various outbuildings, it was completely derelict when they started so it took several years and the offenders would be there for several months at a time. Then they would go back to Holland and be put into work schemes using the skills they had learned.
It had been going for several years by the time we befriended a few of the staff (befriended as in got pissed with them in the local bar).
The reoffending rate was damn near zero, at which point the kids are sent to borstals.

No doubt you'd get "Criminals being sent on holiday at our expense" headlines in the press in the UK, but it worked out far cheaper and a better solution than anything that had been tried before.

[tabascoboy]

[dpedin]

Oh dear, how sad, what a shame, never mind!

[fishfoodie]

Another one

And this shower of creeps & pervs want to have a go at the media over sexual misconduct, when kids were probably safer at TOTP in the 70s, than they would be in the HoC

Tory MP Peter Bone is facing a six week suspension from the House of Commons after an Independent Expert Panel found he had “committed many varied acts of bullying and one act of sexual misconduct” against a member of his staff in 2012 and 2013.

The IEP has recommended that Mr Bone is suspended from the Commons for six weeks.

If the sanction is agreed by MPs it would trigger the Recall of MPs Act 2015 which could then result in a by-election in his Wellingborough constituency.

Mr Bone said in a statement that “none of the misconduct allegations against me ever took place” and the claims are “false and untrue”.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... -win-live/

[tabascoboy]

The dead cat continues to try and bounce

[SaintK]

I'm surprised there wasn't a queue!!!

Andrew Bridgen has demanded an apology from a fellow MP after he allegedly slapped him on the back of the head and called him a "b******".

https://news.sky.com/story/andrew-bri ... 2985929

[dpedin]

I'm surprised there wasn't a queue!!!

Andrew Bridgen has demanded an apology from a fellow MP after he allegedly slapped him on the back of the head and called him a "b******".

https://news.sky.com/story/andrew-bri ... 2985929

I would have used a spade to slap him!

[Insane_Homer]

https://news.sky.com/story/leaked-tory- ... s-12986125

Conservative HQ is claiming the Tory vote share in two upcoming by-elections could halve to around 30%, based on telephone canvassing data over recent days.

Sky News has obtained a memo to Greg Hands, the Conservative Party chairman, from a senior official at the party HQ.

It says in the Mid Bedfordshire by-election, the latest internal polling suggests the party will get a vote share of 30%. This is half the 60% that Ms Dorries won for the Tories in 2019, with Labour on 22% and Lib Dems on 12%.

However, in this by-election the contest has turned into a three-horse-race and there is a path to a Tory victory even if its vote share drops to 30%. The Conservatives assert they are on course to lose.

The memo also says that in Tamworth, data collected over the past 10 days indicates a likely Conservative vote share in the region of 28% to 33%.

The Staffordshire seat is a straight fight between the Tories and Labour, and a drop on this scale would mean the Tories losing the seat. In 2019, Chris Pincher got 66% of the vote, with Labour on 24%.

[C69]

https://news.sky.com/story/leaked-tory- ... s-12986125

Conservative HQ is claiming the Tory vote share in two upcoming by-elections could halve to around 30%, based on telephone canvassing data over recent days.

Sky News has obtained a memo to Greg Hands, the Conservative Party chairman, from a senior official at the party HQ.

It says in the Mid Bedfordshire by-election, the latest internal polling suggests the party will get a vote share of 30%. This is half the 60% that Ms Dorries won for the Tories in 2019, with Labour on 22% and Lib Dems on 12%.

However, in this by-election the contest has turned into a three-horse-race and there is a path to a Tory victory even if its vote share drops to 30%. The Conservatives assert they are on course to lose.

The memo also says that in Tamworth, data collected over the past 10 days indicates a likely Conservative vote share in the region of 28% to 33%.

The Staffordshire seat is a straight fight between the Tories and Labour, and a drop on this scale would mean the Tories losing the seat. In 2019, Chris Pincher got 66% of the vote, with Labour on 24%.

I need suppose the Mid Bedfordshire election is interesting.
Not knowing if Labour or the LDs are both actively campaigning on the ground it's difficult to know what will happen.
I hope the nod and a wink happens across the country with Labour and the LDs not campaigning where the other party is likely to beat the Tories
I still think that the Reform Party may directly take at least 10% of the Tory vote across the board.
I see the newest polls have Labour on 45% and the Tories on 27.
If Labour and the LDs play their cards right and focus on their targets and ignore the others then the Tories could be decimated.

[SaintK]

https://news.sky.com/story/leaked-tory- ... s-12986125

Conservative HQ is claiming the Tory vote share in two upcoming by-elections could halve to around 30%, based on telephone canvassing data over recent days.

Sky News has obtained a memo to Greg Hands, the Conservative Party chairman, from a senior official at the party HQ.

It says in the Mid Bedfordshire by-election, the latest internal polling suggests the party will get a vote share of 30%. This is half the 60% that Ms Dorries won for the Tories in 2019, with Labour on 22% and Lib Dems on 12%.

However, in this by-election the contest has turned into a three-horse-race and there is a path to a Tory victory even if its vote share drops to 30%. The Conservatives assert they are on course to lose.

The memo also says that in Tamworth, data collected over the past 10 days indicates a likely Conservative vote share in the region of 28% to 33%.

The Staffordshire seat is a straight fight between the Tories and Labour, and a drop on this scale would mean the Tories losing the seat. In 2019, Chris Pincher got 66% of the vote, with Labour on 24%.

I need suppose the Mid Bedfordshire election is interesting.
Not knowing if Labour or the LDs are both actively campaigning on the ground it's difficult to know what will happen.
I hope the nod and a wink happens across the country with Labour and the LDs not campaigning where the other party is likely to beat the Tories
I still think that the Reform Party may directly take at least 10% of the Tory vote across the board.
I see the newest polls have Labour on 45% and the Tories on 27.
If Labour and the LDs play their cards right and focus on their targets and ignore the others then the Tories could be decimated.

Both are going balls out for it, which of course could let the Tories sneak in!
The Tory candidate is the local Police and Crime Commissioner who is as incompetent as Dorries was.
Going to be a close run thing!

[tabascoboy]

https://news.sky.com/story/leaked-tory- ... s-12986125

I need suppose the Mid Bedfordshire election is interesting.
Not knowing if Labour or the LDs are both actively campaigning on the ground it's difficult to know what will happen.
I hope the nod and a wink happens across the country with Labour and the LDs not campaigning where the other party is likely to beat the Tories
I still think that the Reform Party may directly take at least 10% of the Tory vote across the board.
I see the newest polls have Labour on 45% and the Tories on 27.
If Labour and the LDs play their cards right and focus on their targets and ignore the others then the Tories could be decimated.

Both are going balls out for it, which of course could let the Tories sneak in!
The Tory candidate is the local Police and Crime Commissioner who is as incompetent as Dorries was.
Going to be a close run thing!

Tory / Lab / LDs only account for 64% for Mid Beds...lots of "don't knows"?

[Hal Jordan]

Never underestimate the shy Tory vote.

[el capitan]

Mid Beds is my patch.

Pretty sure it will go Labour, which even allowing for gradual demographic change in recent years will be pretty extraordinary, though them and the Lib Dems are taking votes off each other.

Tories are not even trying, minimal effort in the campaign. As for Tory voters think a lot will stay at home this one - some want to punish Nadine, some want to punish Boris, and some want to punish Sunak. Polls I've seen though seem to suggest a solid 30% of hardcore who will back them.

Most people just want it over now, all parties between them probably losing more voters than will turn out with the incessant bombardment of door knockers and leaflets at all times of the day for months. People and Parties who have never ever shown their faces around here suddenly after ya 24/7 because they need something from you all of a sudden.

If I vote, I'll probably pick a non-mental sounding independent for going to the time and effort of standing. But yeah, main feeling is can't wait for it to end.

[C69]

I actually think that a Tory win would be the best thing for Labour and the LDs. it will make the leaders realise that they are fucked if they take votes off each other and let the Tories in.
It will also make the Tories think they are not doing so bad.
As many genuinely think. Tactical voting abd a ruimp of Tories voting Reform would be nice.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

What would a good majority for Labour be? And more so for the country than Labour.

Majorities of less than 20, and certainly less than 10, leave one a little exposed to the loons in one's own party. Majorities over what though leave a government with too little opposition? 60? 80?

[Sandstorm]

I actually think that a Tory win would be the best thing for Labour and the LDs. it will make the leaders realise that they are fucked if they take votes off each other and let the Tories in.
It will also make the Tories think they are not doing so bad.
As many genuinely think. Tactical voting abd a ruimp of Tories voting Reform would be nice.

And the worst thing for the country.

[sturginho]

The Tory candidate in Tamworth seems like a pleasant sort of chap

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ss-parents

[tabascoboy]

The Tory candidate in Tamworth seems like a pleasant sort of chap

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ss-parents

Seems to meet the criteria for the new "edgy" breed of Tory

[Rhubarb & Custard]

The Tory candidate in Tamworth seems like a pleasant sort of chap

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ss-parents

Seems to meet the criteria for the new "edgy" breed of Tory

Might not be a bad fit for Tamworth. I've got family in Tamworth and whilst I suspect they vote Tory they might think they're a bit lefty/liberal. Across the families they're either police (by marriage), army, doctors (by marriage) or retired school teachers. They would be if not out and out racist at minimum pro-British, and really that's pro white (but not gypsy) British, homophobic (at least two of them quit the National Trust after a story some years back of NT staff being asked to wear Rainbow Badges), the police lads are Masons, the blokes are for sure misogynists, really they'd love this sort of messaging. For some reason we'll be coming up on another Christmas where a lot of the wider family don't actually meet up

If the Tories lose in Tamworth it's going to take a special effort on their part

[fishfoodie]

I'm surprised how little comments on here about the Covid inquiry ?

I don't know if it's because the cynics on here called all the shit that went on contemporaneously, or if it's being displaced by other stuff, or everyone just wants to forget about covid, but it's delivered some real gems, which are burying any hopes of the Bumblecunt of ever being a player again.

Today we had this lovely little nugget, of how your now PM acted.

The government’s chief scientific adviser sent a secret message calling Rishi Sunak “Dr Death the chancellor” during a meeting attended by both in the Covid crisis, the official inquiry into the pandemic has been told.

Prof Dame Angela McLean, who at the time was the chief scientific adviser to the Ministry of Defence, made the comment in a WhatsApp message to another leading scientist in apparent reference to Sunak’s “eat out to help out” scheme that ran during the summer of 2020.

John Edmunds, a professor of infectious disease modelling who was the recipient of McLean’s messages, told the inquiry that he remained angry at Sunak’s scheme, which incentivised people to eat at restaurants and cafes, saying it sent the wrong message to the public.

On 20 September, Vallance asked Edmunds to join a meeting at which Boris Johnson and Sunak were to hear views from scientists – “mainly from the ‘let it rip’ brigade”, Vallance told Edmunds in the email.

McLean and Edmunds exchanged messages as the meeting heard from anti-lockdown voices, with McLean making reference to “Dr Death the chancellor”. Asked if this was a reference to “eat out to help out”, Edmunds replied: “It’s so long ago I don’t know. But it could well be.”

At another point, McLean asked: “Who is this fuckwit?” to which Edmunds replied: “Every statistic is wrong.”

Asked who this referred to, Edmunds told the inquiry: “I’m pretty sure it’s the next witness.” Due to give evidence after him was Carl Heneghan, a professor of evidence-based medicine at Oxford University who was a critic of several lockdown-related measures.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... uiry-hears



To be fair, you can see why the inquiry felt the need to clarify, exactly who was the fuckwit at that time, because the entire Government was populated by fuckwit, supported by layers of other fuckwits acting as advisors.

[Tichtheid]

I'm surprised how little comments on here about the Covid inquiry ?

I don't know if it's because the cynics on here called all the shit that went on contemporaneously, or if it's being displaced by other stuff, or everyone just wants to forget about covid, but it's delivered some real gems, which are burying any hopes of the Bumblecunt of ever being a player again.

Today we had this lovely little nugget, of how your now PM acted.

The government’s chief scientific adviser sent a secret message calling Rishi Sunak “Dr Death the chancellor” during a meeting attended by both in the Covid crisis, the official inquiry into the pandemic has been told.

Prof Dame Angela McLean, who at the time was the chief scientific adviser to the Ministry of Defence, made the comment in a WhatsApp message to another leading scientist in apparent reference to Sunak’s “eat out to help out” scheme that ran during the summer of 2020.

John Edmunds, a professor of infectious disease modelling who was the recipient of McLean’s messages, told the inquiry that he remained angry at Sunak’s scheme, which incentivised people to eat at restaurants and cafes, saying it sent the wrong message to the public.

On 20 September, Vallance asked Edmunds to join a meeting at which Boris Johnson and Sunak were to hear views from scientists – “mainly from the ‘let it rip’ brigade”, Vallance told Edmunds in the email.

McLean and Edmunds exchanged messages as the meeting heard from anti-lockdown voices, with McLean making reference to “Dr Death the chancellor”. Asked if this was a reference to “eat out to help out”, Edmunds replied: “It’s so long ago I don’t know. But it could well be.”

At another point, McLean asked: “Who is this fuckwit?” to which Edmunds replied: “Every statistic is wrong.”

Asked who this referred to, Edmunds told the inquiry: “I’m pretty sure it’s the next witness.” Due to give evidence after him was Carl Heneghan, a professor of evidence-based medicine at Oxford University who was a critic of several lockdown-related measures.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... uiry-hears



To be fair, you can see why the inquiry felt the need to clarify, exactly who was the fuckwit at that time, because the entire Government was populated by fuckwit, supported by layers of other fuckwits acting as advisors.

If Heneghan is the fuckwit referred to in that it wouldn't surprise me, he was the fuckwit's fuckwit across social media including on here.

He is/was prof of evidence based medicine at Oxford iirc, but his stats were just comically wrong and extrapolated from a premise to make a political point, something that serious science does not do.

[sockwithaticket]

The Tory candidate in Tamworth seems like a pleasant sort of chap

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ss-parents

Seems to meet the criteria for the new "edgy" breed of Tory

Might not be a bad fit for Tamworth. I've got family in Tamworth and whilst I suspect they vote Tory they might think they're a bit lefty/liberal. Across the families they're either police (by marriage), army, doctors (by marriage) or retired school teachers. They would be if not out and out racist at minimum pro-British, and really that's pro white (but not gypsy) British, homophobic (at least two of them quit the National Trust after a story some years back of NT staff being asked to wear Rainbow Badges), the police lads are Masons, the blokes are for sure misogynists, really they'd love this sort of messaging. For some reason we'll be coming up on another Christmas where a lot of the wider family don't actually meet up

If the Tories lose in Tamworth it's going to take a special effort on their part

Possibly a fairly unusual constituency in that it'll have UKIP, Reform and Britain First candidates alongside the Tory.

I saw some vox pops with constituents the other day and while I appreciate that those available and willing to talk to the camera during the working day are often not a particularly representative cross-section of society, this lot seemed considerably more rabid and stupid than their equivalents from other constituencies.

[tabascoboy]

I'm surprised how little comments on here about the Covid inquiry ?

I don't know if it's because the cynics on here called all the shit that went on contemporaneously, or if it's being displaced by other stuff, or everyone just wants to forget about covid, but it's delivered some real gems, which are burying any hopes of the Bumblecunt of ever being a player again.

I didn't even know it was ongoing thanks to so much other bad shit going down...

[Tichtheid]

Seems to meet the criteria for the new "edgy" breed of Tory

Might not be a bad fit for Tamworth. I've got family in Tamworth and whilst I suspect they vote Tory they might think they're a bit lefty/liberal. Across the families they're either police (by marriage), army, doctors (by marriage) or retired school teachers. They would be if not out and out racist at minimum pro-British, and really that's pro white (but not gypsy) British, homophobic (at least two of them quit the National Trust after a story some years back of NT staff being asked to wear Rainbow Badges), the police lads are Masons, the blokes are for sure misogynists, really they'd love this sort of messaging. For some reason we'll be coming up on another Christmas where a lot of the wider family don't actually meet up

If the Tories lose in Tamworth it's going to take a special effort on their part

Possibly a fairly unusual constituency in that it'll have UKIP, Reform and Britain First candidates alongside the Tory.

I saw some vox pops with constituents the other day and while I appreciate that those available and willing to talk to the camera during the working day are often not a particularly representative cross-section of society, this lot seemed considerably more rabid and stupid than their equivalents from other constituencies.

How long will that be unusual?

The scary scenario is that these extremist rights wing parties replace the Tories and become a viable election choice - that may sound alarmist until one looks at the lurch the Tory party has taken in the last dozen years since it came into power.

[Biffer]

Might not be a bad fit for Tamworth. I've got family in Tamworth and whilst I suspect they vote Tory they might think they're a bit lefty/liberal. Across the families they're either police (by marriage), army, doctors (by marriage) or retired school teachers. They would be if not out and out racist at minimum pro-British, and really that's pro white (but not gypsy) British, homophobic (at least two of them quit the National Trust after a story some years back of NT staff being asked to wear Rainbow Badges), the police lads are Masons, the blokes are for sure misogynists, really they'd love this sort of messaging. For some reason we'll be coming up on another Christmas where a lot of the wider family don't actually meet up

If the Tories lose in Tamworth it's going to take a special effort on their part

Possibly a fairly unusual constituency in that it'll have UKIP, Reform and Britain First candidates alongside the Tory.

I saw some vox pops with constituents the other day and while I appreciate that those available and willing to talk to the camera during the working day are often not a particularly representative cross-section of society, this lot seemed considerably more rabid and stupid than their equivalents from other constituencies.

How long will that be unusual?

The scary scenario is that these extremist rights wing parties replace the Tories and become a viable election choice - that may sound alarmist until one looks at the lurch the Tory party has taken in the last dozen years since it came into power.

That's the box the tories have opened. If you start to pander to the fringes, you have to keep doing it, and you get drawn further and further into the lunatics.

[fishfoodie]

Might not be a bad fit for Tamworth. I've got family in Tamworth and whilst I suspect they vote Tory they might think they're a bit lefty/liberal. Across the families they're either police (by marriage), army, doctors (by marriage) or retired school teachers. They would be if not out and out racist at minimum pro-British, and really that's pro white (but not gypsy) British, homophobic (at least two of them quit the National Trust after a story some years back of NT staff being asked to wear Rainbow Badges), the police lads are Masons, the blokes are for sure misogynists, really they'd love this sort of messaging. For some reason we'll be coming up on another Christmas where a lot of the wider family don't actually meet up

If the Tories lose in Tamworth it's going to take a special effort on their part

Possibly a fairly unusual constituency in that it'll have UKIP, Reform and Britain First candidates alongside the Tory.

I saw some vox pops with constituents the other day and while I appreciate that those available and willing to talk to the camera during the working day are often not a particularly representative cross-section of society, this lot seemed considerably more rabid and stupid than their equivalents from other constituencies.

How long will that be unusual?

The scary scenario is that these extremist rights wing parties replace the Tories and become a viable election choice - that may sound alarmist until one looks at the lurch the Tory party has taken in the last dozen years since it came into power.

while the UK has FPTP voting, the fringe nutters will only be an inconvenience to the bigger parties; if you change to PR, the game will change completely

[Tichtheid]

Possibly a fairly unusual constituency in that it'll have UKIP, Reform and Britain First candidates alongside the Tory.

I saw some vox pops with constituents the other day and while I appreciate that those available and willing to talk to the camera during the working day are often not a particularly representative cross-section of society, this lot seemed considerably more rabid and stupid than their equivalents from other constituencies.

How long will that be unusual?

The scary scenario is that these extremist rights wing parties replace the Tories and become a viable election choice - that may sound alarmist until one looks at the lurch the Tory party has taken in the last dozen years since it came into power.

while the UK has FPTP voting, the fringe nutters will only be an inconvenience to the bigger parties; if you change to PR, the game will change completely

The fringe nutters drove Brexit and led to Farage being a major player in UK politics, and Truss, Braverman and Johnson etc holding the senior offices.

We are not protected by the FPTP voting system at all, in my view.

[sockwithaticket]

The example of Brexit and UKIP is that the Tory party brings the nutters into the fold or steals their turf. I would imagine that's why Suella is making such horrific speeches.

Now the hope would be that their current lurch ever rightward will keep them unelectable because it's too much even for most dyed in the wool Tories. The fear is that we've actually got far more people in this country who are at the least comfortable with far, far right politics than previously thought.

[Sandstorm]

The example of Brexit and UKIP is that the Tory party brings the nutters into the fold or steals their turf. I would imagine that's why Suella is making such horrific speeches.

Now the hope would be that their current lurch ever rightward will keep them unelectable because it's too much even for most dyed in the wool Tories. The fear is that we've actually got far more people in this country who are at the least comfortable with far, far right politics than previously thought.

Cameron was fooled, the stupid, smug twat.

[fishfoodie]

How long will that be unusual?

The scary scenario is that these extremist rights wing parties replace the Tories and become a viable election choice - that may sound alarmist until one looks at the lurch the Tory party has taken in the last dozen years since it came into power.

while the UK has FPTP voting, the fringe nutters will only be an inconvenience to the bigger parties; if you change to PR, the game will change completely

The fringe nutters drove Brexit and led to Farage being a major player in UK politics, and Truss, Braverman and Johnson etc holding the senior offices.

We are not protected by the FPTP voting system at all, in my view.

I've always thought about it the other way around.

With FPTP, they never got any seats, & the POV of the people who voted for them never got acknowledged, & so eventually got shown to be complete bollox; so their voters somehow felt they were being ripped off.

Do this for a few Election cycles, & you get yet another knob end, disconnected, Tory leader out of Eton+Oxford ignores decades of experience from Countries that actually do Referendums regularly, & who; surprise surprise, decides that he knows better than people who've done this shit for decades, & who have voters who've done this shit for decades.

There were a line of Irish PMs, who'd held & lost Referendums, in exactly this kind of circumstance, who saw the potential outcome, & warned about it; but they were Irish, & so were ignored.

There's a damn good reason that the Irish CS started planning for Brexit the day after Cameron announced the plan for the referendum, & it's not because they had any particular foresight; but more because they understood the capacity for the Tories to fuck it up !

[Insane_Homer]

Summary

Labour has overturned huge Conservative majorities to win Thursday's two by-elections in Mid Bedfordshire and Tamworth

Party leader Sir Keir Starmer said the results showed "people overwhelmingly want change"

Labour emerged victorious in Mid Bedfordshire - Nadine Dorries' seat until she quit as an MP - where the Tories were defending a majority of more than 24,000
The Conservatives were also defeated in Tamworth, where Labour overturned a majority of more than 19,000

The swing from the Conservatives to Labour in Tamworth was 23.9% and in Mid Bedfordshire 20.5%

[C69]

The Tories are well and truly fucked.
Good

[tabascoboy]

That's two pretty massive results, they will still have too many rock solid "Tory till I die" seats but there will be a very large number of very nervous sitting Tory MPs this morning. Just hope it doesn't force them to get their shit together and that they continue this descent

[C69]

That's two pretty massive results, they will still have too many rock solid "Tory till I die" seats but there will be a very large number of very nervous sitting Tory MPs this morning. Just hope it doesn't force them to get their shit together and that they continue this descent

They can't get their shit together. They have schismed politically and are splintered.
Shit loads are now grifting like JRM and the others on GB News and Braverman amongst others on the right are actively challenging Sunak and briefing against him.
Time to rally round the Big Dog.

Like when the red wall crumbled. People are ready to change their alliances. Starmer is Blair lite. The Labour Party are eunuchs and don't give Middle England or anyone any cause for concern.