Kicking off in Israel

[Raggs]

The look and reaction from the kid being made to wave goodbye to his kidnappers, reminds me so much of my nephew of about the same age it made me grin. An adult would just fake smile and do it, trust a 13 year old (or there abouts) to treat it with the disdain it deserves with no thought to the consequences.

The hand raise and the head turn are two different people.

I find it difficult to read anything into what happens there. That's not to say there isn't disdain, but it may be a case of seeing what one wants to see

The kid is the second one inside the van on the left hand side. You can clearly see that it's the same van and the same people, the kid I'm talking about is the one that gives two half hearted "waves" then gives the wtf movement. That look and hand wave is so typical of a "What is the point of this." I don't know how else to describe it.

[Tichtheid]

The kid is the second one inside the van on the left hand side. You can clearly see that it's the same van and the same people, the kid I'm talking about is the one that gives two half hearted "waves" then gives the wtf movement. That look and hand wave is so typical of a "What is the point of this." I don't know how else to describe it.

Yeah, we're talking bout the same kid, not the one who turns his head. I mention him because taken together it could be misleading.

As for the hand raise kid, without talking with him it's difficult to know what he's feeling, my guess would be something along the lines of "TF that's over", but to be honest I'm not getting what the tweet wants me to get - all we can see is him waving out the back of the van and then him raisng his hand, you can't see his face at that point.

[Raggs]

The kid is the second one inside the van on the left hand side. You can clearly see that it's the same van and the same people, the kid I'm talking about is the one that gives two half hearted "waves" then gives the wtf movement. That look and hand wave is so typical of a "What is the point of this." I don't know how else to describe it.

Yeah, we're talking bout the same kid, not the one who turns his head. I mention him because taken together it could be misleading.

As for the hand raise kid, without talking with him it's difficult to know what he's feeling, my guess would be something along the lines of "TF that's over", but to be honest I'm not getting what the tweet wants me to get - all we can see is him waving out the back of the van and then him raisng his hand, you can't see his face at that point.

See what you mean now, you're right, the disdain face, and hand wave are two different individuals.

[Calculon]

These videos are creepy as fuck but many Mahomedans and the useful idiots in the West lap them up as an example of Hamas not being that bad

[Tichtheid]

The kid is the second one inside the van on the left hand side. You can clearly see that it's the same van and the same people, the kid I'm talking about is the one that gives two half hearted "waves" then gives the wtf movement. That look and hand wave is so typical of a "What is the point of this." I don't know how else to describe it.

Yeah, we're talking bout the same kid, not the one who turns his head. I mention him because taken together it could be misleading.

As for the hand raise kid, without talking with him it's difficult to know what he's feeling, my guess would be something along the lines of "TF that's over", but to be honest I'm not getting what the tweet wants me to get - all we can see is him waving out the back of the van and then him raisng his hand, you can't see his face at that point.

See what you mean now, you're right, the disdain face, and hand wave are two different individuals.

Yeah, it's a right hand that is raised and the hand is to the left of the lad whose face we see. it's also a different colour sleeve to the one the "face kid" is wearing.

[Raggs]

Hamas breaking the ceasefire again, and taking responsibility for it. Just as an agreement has apparently been reached for a further 2 day ceasefire. Colour me shocked.

[Calculon]

Monsters

[Guy Smiley]

Raggs, why does Israel make a habit of imprisoning Palestinian children?

Why do they refer to those children as 'people under 18' when Israeli people under 18 are referred to as children?

Why does Israel hold so many Palestinians in jail, sometimes for extended periods over months, sometimes without charge, and those people are not referred to as hostages?

It seems by Hamas' definition, child is someone of 18 years and younger.

I don't have the ability to search in Hebrew for the law texts, to see the wording in Hebrew, could you please link me to these.

Why does New Zealand make a habit of imprisoning children?

Why do they refer to those children as Young Persons if they are 14 or older? Or Adults if those children are 17 or older (apparently in your post Israel still refers to these as people under 18, rather than just straight up adults like the NZ system).

https://wwwex.ilo.org/dyn/natlex2/natle ... 202018.pdf

I've already stated my issues to people being held without charge in administrative detention. Why are court waiting times in New Zealand nearly a year and a half? Why can people be remanded in custody whilst waiting for their trial to complete?

I hope New Zealand have actually implemented the UNs recommendation and stopped arbitrarily and indefinitely holding asylum seekers in detention centres.

https://www.unhcr.org/au/publications/u ... um-seekers

And I hope that the practice recorded in 2015 of simply recalling someone to prison after they've finished their assigned prison sentence has been removed too.

Well, that's an absolute flurry of whataboutery.

[Raggs]

Raggs, why does Israel make a habit of imprisoning Palestinian children?

Why do they refer to those children as 'people under 18' when Israeli people under 18 are referred to as children?

Why does Israel hold so many Palestinians in jail, sometimes for extended periods over months, sometimes without charge, and those people are not referred to as hostages?

It seems by Hamas' definition, child is someone of 18 years and younger.

I don't have the ability to search in Hebrew for the law texts, to see the wording in Hebrew, could you please link me to these.

Why does New Zealand make a habit of imprisoning children?

Why do they refer to those children as Young Persons if they are 14 or older? Or Adults if those children are 17 or older (apparently in your post Israel still refers to these as people under 18, rather than just straight up adults like the NZ system).

https://wwwex.ilo.org/dyn/natlex2/natle ... 202018.pdf

I've already stated my issues to people being held without charge in administrative detention. Why are court waiting times in New Zealand nearly a year and a half? Why can people be remanded in custody whilst waiting for their trial to complete?

I hope New Zealand have actually implemented the UNs recommendation and stopped arbitrarily and indefinitely holding asylum seekers in detention centres.

https://www.unhcr.org/au/publications/u ... um-seekers

And I hope that the practice recorded in 2015 of simply recalling someone to prison after they've finished their assigned prison sentence has been removed too.

Well, that's an absolute flurry of whataboutery.

Thought that would be your response, rather than actually facing upto it. Israel is held to the standards of the west, these are western standards. My answer to most of your questions are whatever NZ uses to justify the exact same things.

In new news, and to the surprise of no one, the side not held to western standards, has once again broken the ceasefire, by using a tunnel to set off another explosive against the IDF. This is of course at the same time they're attempting to extend the ceasefire by another 4 days. As we can see, Israel cease and Hamas fire.

[Guy Smiley]

Thought that would be your response, rather than actually facing upto it. Israel is held to the standards of the west, these are western standards. My answer to most of your questions are whatever NZ uses to justify the exact same things.

Perhaps you thought that would be my response because you often get that sort of response, eh? Not so much to do with me, as it is to do with your response.

NZ is not at war with a territory it occupies illegally. The exact same things are, by several orders of magnitude not the same. NZ has its problems, sure... but this thread is about Israel and the current conflict it is pursuing. If you'd like to discuss NZ's social issues, start a thread or join one of the threads where those crop up.

My particular slant on this, the reason I'm challenging you in here, is my desire to see that this is not a simple matter of one side being right and the other wrong, as you and others are seemingly keen to promote. There are mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters and children being killed in Gaza in horrifying numbers and I refuse to reduce those people to simple numbers, dehumanised and labelled as terrorists because they are there, imprisoned by Israel's illegal blockade.

Hamas are despicable. I have no issue with that. So is your government and the actions of settlers in the West Bank are no different to those of Hamas. The whole region is a bloody, brutal mess. No-one is innocent.

[Raggs]

Thought that would be your response, rather than actually facing upto it. Israel is held to the standards of the west, these are western standards. My answer to most of your questions are whatever NZ uses to justify the exact same things.

Perhaps you thought that would be my response because you often get that sort of response, eh? Not so much to do with me, as it is to do with your response.

NZ is not at war with a territory it occupies illegally. The exact same things are, by several orders of magnitude not the same. NZ has its problems, sure... but this thread is about Israel and the current conflict it is pursuing. If you'd like to discuss NZ's social issues, start a thread or join one of the threads where those crop up.

My particular slant on this, the reason I'm challenging you in here, is my desire to see that this is not a simple matter of one side being right and the other wrong, as you and others are seemingly keen to promote. There are mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters and children being killed in Gaza in horrifying numbers and I refuse to reduce those people to simple numbers, dehumanised and labelled as terrorists because they are there, imprisoned by Israel's illegal blockade.

Hamas are despicable. I have no issue with that. So is your government and the actions of settlers in the West Bank are no different to those of Hamas. The whole region is a bloody, brutal mess. No-one is innocent.

Why does NZ not refer to them as children? Even referring to them as adults when on 17. Where are the links showing Israeli law, I was kind enough to provide evidence for my claims.

You'll tell me where I've only said that Israel is right and Hamas is wrong. I'll have quotes on that one please. And if I can show quotes of me clearly showing that Israel is not the good guy all the time, or that the Israeli government is not good all the time, you will of course apologise fully for stating that, and wasting my time?

MY? Government? Settlers in the West bank?

You fucking want to talk to me about seeing this as black and white, and one eyedness, and you've clearly not read many of the things I've fucking wrote here. Get the fuck out you smearing piece of shit.

[C69]

Monsters

Monsters indeed. It really grates when both sides in this clusterfuck spew out propaganda using children as their canvass.
I suppose it is in the vain hope that some useful idiot in another country will post links on social media just to back up their own prejudiced view point.
Sad but true.

[Calculon]

Monsters

Monsters indeed. It really grates when both sides in this clusterfuck spew out propaganda using children as their canvass.
I suppose it is in the vain hope that some useful idiot in another country will post links on social media just to back up their own prejudiced view point.
Sad but true.

Considering you thought the Mr fafo video was genuine your ability to distinguish fake propaganda from what is genuine is on par with that of a five year old. Although maybe that is more a reflection of your own deep prejudice, from the same warped mind that thinks both sides are equally bad. Eveready was dead on right about you

[C69]

Monsters

Monsters indeed. It really grates when both sides in this clusterfuck spew out propaganda using children as their canvass.
I suppose it is in the vain hope that some useful idiot in another country will post links on social media just to back up their own prejudiced view point.
Sad but true.

Considering you thought the Mr fafo video was genuine your ability to distinguish fake propaganda from what is genuine is on par with that of a five year old. Although maybe that is more a reflection of your own deep prejudice, from the same warped mind that thinks both sides are equally bad. Eveready was dead on right about you

Which video are you talking about?
Feel free to post a link and also I know you are mixing me up with someone else regarding Eveready.

[Line6 HXFX]

And here we are, as prediced, two months ago.
Fucking'ell.
Nato should get involved and bomb the living shit out of Isreali air bases.

Destroy the blockades.

Flood Palestine with nato troops.

Get between the IDF and the Palestinian population, most of whom are going to be forced into the desert to die, by the IDF if we don't prevent it.

Or we can sit back, and knowingly be gas lit, by Israeli propagandists.. whilst this is happening

[media] [/media]

[Ymx]

Dear lord this Owen Jones has gone full Guardian

[Guy Smiley]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... ssad-chief

A former head of the Mossad intelligence agency has said Israel is imposing a form of apartheid on the Palestinians, joining a growing number of prominent Israelis to compare the occupation of the West Bank to South Africa’s defunct system of racial oppression.

But Tamir Pardo’s views will have added impact because of the high regard for Mossad in Israel and because they come at a time when far-right members of Israel’s government are moving to kill off any prospect of an independent Palestinian state.

Pardo told the Associated Press that Israel’s mechanisms for controlling the Palestinians, from restrictions on movement to placing them under military law while Jewish settlers in the occupied territories are governed by civilian courts, matched the old South Africa.

“There is an apartheid state here,” he said. “In a territory where two people are judged under two legal systems, that is an apartheid state.”

Pardo, 70, was appointed to head Mossad in 2011 by Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel’s prime minister then and now. Netanyahu’s Likud party said Pardo “should be ashamed” of his comments.

“Instead of defending Israel and the Israeli military, Pardo slanders Israel,” it said.

Successive Israeli governments have fought back against accusations of apartheid by characterising them as antisemitic out of concern the charge will fuel a boycott movement or open the way to prosecutions under international laws against apartheid.

But such allegations become harder to dismiss when they come from those within the Israeli establishment.

Pardo told the AP his views on the system in the West Bank were “not extreme. It’s a fact.”

He also warned that what has been described as Israel’s “forever occupation” threatens its existence as a Jewish state. “Israel needs to decide what it wants,” he said. “A country that has no border has no boundaries.”

Pardo is among the highest ranking former officials to draw the once taboo parallel with the old South Africa. Israel’s former attorney general, Michael Ben-Yair, said last year “that my country has sunk to such political and moral depths that it is now an apartheid regime”.

The former speaker of the Israeli parliament, Avraham Burg, and the renowned Israeli historian, Benny Morris, are among more than 2,000 Israeli and American public figures who have signed a recent public statement declaring that “Palestinians live under a regime of apartheid”.



The open letter calls on US Jewish groups to speak out against the occupation of the Palestinian territories as “the elephant in the room” in the mass Israeli protests against Netanyahu’s deeply divisive judicial reforms which, it said, are intended to “annex more land, and ethnically cleanse all territories under Israeli rule of their Palestinian population”.

[Uncle fester]

https://unherd.com/2023/11/israel-is-tu ... o-lebanon/

Interesting article drawing some parallels between Israel and Lebanon in the past. Not sure I agree fully but it's worth a read.

[Ymx]

This guy has a quality rant about Owen Jones video.

Be warned there is a touch of swearing.

[Guy Smiley]

https://unherd.com/2023/11/israel-is-tu ... o-lebanon/

Interesting article drawing some parallels between Israel and Lebanon in the past. Not sure I agree fully but it's worth a read.

It is well worth a read

[Line6 HXFX]

I feel like my IQ drops 50 points whenever YMK posts anything.

Your established reality and world view is just yours mateee.
Who the fuck are you dog whistling to?

You haven't convinced anyone of anything, and yet you talk like just saying someone's name who you don't like..because you got the memo..is argument enough?

Who the fuck are you? Your shit is just nerr ner ner nerr ner.

[C69]

200 targets hit according to Israel in 10 hours.
Blitzkrieg

[Deepsouth]

200 targets hit according to Israel in 10 hours.
Blitzkrieg

Good shooting Gentleman........

[C69]

200 targets hit according to Israel in 10 hours.
Blitzkrieg

Good shooting Gentleman........

Apparently so, fish in a barrel.
The slaughter is astounding atm.

[Line6 HXFX]

It is (and was always meant to be) an extermination.

They are exterminating innocent men women and children.


You live on that piece of land, you get exterminated.


We are just consenting onlookers.

I feel sick with shame.

[C69]

Move South you will be safe.
So they moved South
Move South again or you will be bombed


To small bits of barren land....

Jesus H Christ

[Line6 HXFX]

They intend for the entire palistinian Arab people to die in the desert.
This is what is happening.

Where the fuck is the UN. Nato. The EU. The U.K?
If not, would anyone really care if China or Iran just turned up and stopped these murderous, zionist Israeli wankers?

At this point I genuinely couldn't give a fuck who bombs Israeli airbases.

[C69]

The North and Gaza City will be destroyed soon probably in the guise of destroying Tunnels.
No one can go back there over a million people.
The South will be razed no Palestinian will return to the area.

They are told to move south, to the desert. Die at the hands of the IDF or go into the desert and die of dehydration and disease and starvation.
This is fucking barbaric.

Give it a few years and it will be rebuilt.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

They intend for the entire palistinian Arab people to die in the desert.
This is what is happening.

Where the fuck is the UN. Nato. The EU. The U.K?
If not, would anyone really care if China or Iran just turned up and stopped these murderous, zionist Israeli wankers?

At this point I genuinely couldn't give a fuck who bombs Israeli airbases.

I'd care, not least as we'd likely then be at war with whomever had attacked Israel.

But just to give some context, since the current state of Israel was born the Palestinian population has increased by as much as ten-fold, certain it'd seven to eight. And then too you're rather overlooking, or perhaps just pig ignorant, of how many Palestinians live in Israel (mind in some sense so are Israel when they used to and probably still do register them as Arab Israeli not Palestinian Israeli, but were one to ask any number of them I'd venture they'd say Palestinian, and still more so today). So if Israel's plan is to kill all Palestinian Arabs they are going about it in very peculiar fashion.

I can't say I like what Israel are doing, not in isolation, then I'm worried it'll not work anyway, and I'm worried they're not perhaps clear on what the intended outcome is, certainly not one within the realms of reality. But you sunshine are spouting bollocks, the population of Palestinians is well up, they are giving some notice for people to move, and whilst the death toll is shocking it's some small amount of the whole.

[C69]

They intend for the entire palistinian Arab people to die in the desert.
This is what is happening.

Where the fuck is the UN. Nato. The EU. The U.K?
If not, would anyone really care if China or Iran just turned up and stopped these murderous, zionist Israeli wankers?

At this point I genuinely couldn't give a fuck who bombs Israeli airbases.

I'd care, not least as we'd likely then be at war with whomever had attacked Israel.

But just to give some context, since the current state of Israel was born the Palestinian population has increased by as much as ten-fold, certain it'd seven to eight. And then too you're rather overlooking, or perhaps just pig ignorant, of how many Palestinians live in Israel (mind in some sense so are Israel when they used to and probably still do register them as Arab Israeli not Palestinian Israeli, but were one to ask any number of them I'd venture they'd say Palestinian, and still more so today). So if Israel's plan is to kill all Palestinian Arabs they are going about it in very peculiar fashion.

I can't say I like what Israel are doing, not in isolation, then I'm worried it'll not work anyway, and I'm worried they're not perhaps clear on what the intended outcome is, certainly not one within the realms of reality. But you sunshine are spouting bollocks, the population of Palestinians is well up, they are giving some notice for people to move, and whilst the death toll is shocking it's some small amount of the whole.

How dare the Palestinians procreate.
1.7m moved to safety now they are not safe.
Move to a place fit for 200,000 or the desert or stay and die.
That is the notice to move according to the UN.
Death will come to thousands from disease as they have no sanitation and disease is rife

[Raggs]

They intend for the entire palistinian Arab people to die in the desert.
This is what is happening.

Where the fuck is the UN. Nato. The EU. The U.K?
If not, would anyone really care if China or Iran just turned up and stopped these murderous, zionist Israeli wankers?

At this point I genuinely couldn't give a fuck who bombs Israeli airbases.

I'd care, not least as we'd likely then be at war with whomever had attacked Israel.

But just to give some context, since the current state of Israel was born the Palestinian population has increased by as much as ten-fold, certain it'd seven to eight. And then too you're rather overlooking, or perhaps just pig ignorant, of how many Palestinians live in Israel (mind in some sense so are Israel when they used to and probably still do register them as Arab Israeli not Palestinian Israeli, but were one to ask any number of them I'd venture they'd say Palestinian, and still more so today). So if Israel's plan is to kill all Palestinian Arabs they are going about it in very peculiar fashion.

I can't say I like what Israel are doing, not in isolation, then I'm worried it'll not work anyway, and I'm worried they're not perhaps clear on what the intended outcome is, certainly not one within the realms of reality. But you sunshine are spouting bollocks, the population of Palestinians is well up, they are giving some notice for people to move, and whilst the death toll is shocking it's some small amount of the whole.

Actually very recent polling suggests that for the first time, they view themselves firstly as Israeli, then Arab, then Palestinian, though the Arab and Israeli categories were rather close I believe (like tenths of percents).

I do like the appeal to the UN though. There's a few UN's around though. There's the UN peacekeeping force on the Lebanon border, doing the square root of fuck all to stop Lebanon attacking Israel (and the Israeli reactions, but that is very much reactions, not instigations). There's the UNRWA, who's job seems to be the opposite of the UNHCR, and instead of trying to find refugees homes to naturalise in, instead keep them and their children refugees for generations, and aren't too worried about teaching anti-semitism in schools, letting rockets be fired from and manufactured in schools, and keeping hostages. We can't forget of course the pinnacle of social warriors at the UNHRC, who are such a fecking joke I'm not even going to bother. Oh, and then there's the UN making sure the special raconteur (sp) for Palestine, someone who's supposed to be objective and neutral, is married to someone who worked for the West Bank government and has made blatantly anti-semitic remarks in the past. Oh, and the UN Women, who took damn near 2 months to condemn the sexual assaults, and even then started it off with couching it as a general statement. Not to forget multiple members of the UN who apparently have been asleep during their tenure, and are under the impression that this is the worst conflict they've seen in their time.

It's insane to me that it's apparently possible to go so far "left" that you end up wanting Islamic extremists to actually win. How does that work. I understand Israel has done some terrible things, but surely even if they decided that ethnic cleansing of Gaza was going to happen, it's still the lesser of two evils! And no, that's not me suggesting they should, or supporting that. Simply if I had to pick between a shitty state that allows gay rights, religious freedoms, and equal rights to it's citizens regardless of race or gender, and a shitty state that doesn't allow those things, I know which I'd prefer!

Destruction of Israel. Destruction of Palestine. Peace between the two. 3 options. I'd prefer the last. Current Israeli government is very unlikely to achieve the 3rd, but it's the only democracy in the area, and they'll be replaced soon enough. Hamas doesn't want the 3rd, and aren't going anywhere without being forced out. This war stops now, before their infrastructure is destroyed, and we end up in the same shitty cycle, with another war 2-5 years down the line. Maybe destroying them doesn't change that, but maybe it can.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

I don't mind there being Arab Israeli as a descriptor, I just think it can't be an accident many would choose Palestinian Israeli and yet somehow don't have the option. It seems petty the choice isn't there, but the grievances run deep and wide, for good and bad reasons, and on both sides.

I hope you're right all that's being done removes Hamas, it would be something on the back of all that's happened, for both sides. What stops another emerging presents quickly as a question, but maybe one day at a time

[Uncle fester]

The "decapitation" strategy (kill Hamas and it'll all be over) doesn't work because it assumes that people are black and white.
At some point Israel is going to have to sit down and do a deal with people who have blood on their hands and that's okay because the Israelis have plenty of blood on their hands too.

That was the ultimate insult of Sharon's government. The government led by the butcher of Sabra and Shatila wouldn't talk with any Palestinian leaders who were not whiter than white. Guess what, none existed and they poured petrol on the whole conflict while cosplaying as the good guys.

[Raggs]

The "decapitation" strategy (kill Hamas and it'll all be over) doesn't work because it assumes that people are black and white.
At some point Israel is going to have to sit down and do a deal with people who have blood on their hands and that's okay because the Israelis have plenty of blood on their hands too.

That was the ultimate insult of Sharon's government. The government led by the butcher of Sabra and Shatila wouldn't talk with any Palestinian leaders who were not whiter than white. Guess what, none existed and they poured petrol on the whole conflict while cosplaying as the good guys.

Blood on their hands wasn't the issue right now. It's Hamas not recognising Israel and wanting the entirety of the land back. Openly stating they intend to kill all the Jews and drive them out. This is not a partner to talk with.

What happens after is absolutely essential, and we could end up in just as much of a mess as we currently have. I have to hope that we don't. But the mess that we have is not getting any better with Hamas in place.

[Uncle fester]

The "decapitation" strategy (kill Hamas and it'll all be over) doesn't work because it assumes that people are black and white.
At some point Israel is going to have to sit down and do a deal with people who have blood on their hands and that's okay because the Israelis have plenty of blood on their hands too.

That was the ultimate insult of Sharon's government. The government led by the butcher of Sabra and Shatila wouldn't talk with any Palestinian leaders who were not whiter than white. Guess what, none existed and they poured petrol on the whole conflict while cosplaying as the good guys.

Blood on their hands wasn't the issue right now. It's Hamas not recognising Israel and wanting the entirety of the land back. Openly stating they intend to kill all the Jews and drive them out. This is not a partner to talk with.

What happens after is absolutely essential, and we could end up in just as much of a mess as we currently have. I have to hope that we don't. But the mess that we have is not getting any better with Hamas in place.

Who on the Palestinian side is going to talk peace with Israel after Gaza has been levelled?
It won't be genuine peace talks. It'll be jailor v jailed with the jailor demanding complete and utter submission. In return they'll let the jailed return to their cells. Does that seem reasonable to you?
The Sharon "collective punishment" approach has failed abysmally and actively works against long term Israeli security.

[Slick]

The "decapitation" strategy (kill Hamas and it'll all be over) doesn't work because it assumes that people are black and white.
At some point Israel is going to have to sit down and do a deal with people who have blood on their hands and that's okay because the Israelis have plenty of blood on their hands too.

That was the ultimate insult of Sharon's government. The government led by the butcher of Sabra and Shatila wouldn't talk with any Palestinian leaders who were not whiter than white. Guess what, none existed and they poured petrol on the whole conflict while cosplaying as the good guys.

Blood on their hands wasn't the issue right now. It's Hamas not recognising Israel and wanting the entirety of the land back. Openly stating they intend to kill all the Jews and drive them out. This is not a partner to talk with.

What happens after is absolutely essential, and we could end up in just as much of a mess as we currently have. I have to hope that we don't. But the mess that we have is not getting any better with Hamas in place.

Who on the Palestinian side is going to talk peace with Israel after Gaza has been levelled?
It won't be genuine peace talks. It'll be jailor v jailed with the jailor demanding complete and utter submission. In return they'll let the jailed return to their cells. Does that seem reasonable to you?
The Sharon "collective punishment" approach has failed abysmally and actively works against long term Israeli security.

Thing is, in terms of security, it might just work. If ever there was a time for the Middle Eastern countries to bear down on Israel it's now, but this has just confirmed that none of them give a fuck about Palestine and they just want security as well. Even Hezbollah are just going through the motions.

[Raggs]

The "decapitation" strategy (kill Hamas and it'll all be over) doesn't work because it assumes that people are black and white.
At some point Israel is going to have to sit down and do a deal with people who have blood on their hands and that's okay because the Israelis have plenty of blood on their hands too.

That was the ultimate insult of Sharon's government. The government led by the butcher of Sabra and Shatila wouldn't talk with any Palestinian leaders who were not whiter than white. Guess what, none existed and they poured petrol on the whole conflict while cosplaying as the good guys.

Blood on their hands wasn't the issue right now. It's Hamas not recognising Israel and wanting the entirety of the land back. Openly stating they intend to kill all the Jews and drive them out. This is not a partner to talk with.

What happens after is absolutely essential, and we could end up in just as much of a mess as we currently have. I have to hope that we don't. But the mess that we have is not getting any better with Hamas in place.

Who on the Palestinian side is going to talk peace with Israel after Gaza has been levelled?
It won't be genuine peace talks. It'll be jailor v jailed with the jailor demanding complete and utter submission. In return they'll let the jailed return to their cells. Does that seem reasonable to you?
The Sharon "collective punishment" approach has failed abysmally and actively works against long term Israeli security.

Hamas won't be involved in genuine peace talks either. So as I said, either situation is still just as much of a mess anyway, or it gets better.

The Gaza withdrawal was the single biggest "active" step that either side has taken since the Oslo accords were signed. There's been plenty of talk, but in terms of hard action taken towards the establishment of a 2 state solution, the Gaza withdrawal (and withdrawal of significant settlers in the west bank as well) was the big one. That was during Sharon's government. It was received with rocket fire from Gaza, and shortly after, the voting in of a group who were vowed to destroy Israel, and now had far more freedom to actually do so. Sorry, but it was not Israel's actions at that point that set us down this route.

I've already stated that something needs to change after this is done. But it takes genuine action on both sides, and importantly, a recognition that it will not happen overnight. Positive active steps, taken in concert, over time.

[C69]

Blood on their hands wasn't the issue right now. It's Hamas not recognising Israel and wanting the entirety of the land back. Openly stating they intend to kill all the Jews and drive them out. This is not a partner to talk with.

What happens after is absolutely essential, and we could end up in just as much of a mess as we currently have. I have to hope that we don't. But the mess that we have is not getting any better with Hamas in place.

Who on the Palestinian side is going to talk peace with Israel after Gaza has been levelled?
It won't be genuine peace talks. It'll be jailor v jailed with the jailor demanding complete and utter submission. In return they'll let the jailed return to their cells. Does that seem reasonable to you?
The Sharon "collective punishment" approach has failed abysmally and actively works against long term Israeli security.

Hamas won't be involved in genuine peace talks either. So as I said, either situation is still just as much of a mess anyway, or it gets better.

The Gaza withdrawal was the single biggest "active" step that either side has taken since the Oslo accords were signed. There's been plenty of talk, but in terms of hard action taken towards the establishment of a 2 state solution, the Gaza withdrawal (and withdrawal of significant settlers in the west bank as well) was the big one. That was during Sharon's government. It was received with rocket fire from Gaza, and shortly after, the voting in of a group who were vowed to destroy Israel, and now had far more freedom to actually do so. Sorry, but it was not Israel's actions at that point that set us down this route.

I've already stated that something needs to change after this is done. But it takes genuine action on both sides, and importantly, a recognition that it will not happen overnight. Positive active steps, taken in concert, over time.

Would the group that was voted in be the group that was set up by and bankrolled with Israeli government money?
Btw we both know the answer.

That went well.

[Raggs]

UNRWA stockpiling goods at the instructions of Hamas, not giving it to Gazans in need.



The quoted tweet is a short thread.

[Line6 HXFX]

Israel has now given up its right to either defend itself, or have an independent state.

They have shown us over the last ...fucking forever..they are a blood thirsty murderous people who can all just fuck off.

Palistinain people have every single right to attack, hate and fuck up as many israelies as possible.

White supremacist Zionist, aparthied loving pricks need to be removed from this earth, en mass.. and sent back to South Africa, or wheree ver the fuck these scumbags are from.

The entire fucking world should be at War with Israel right now. We should have blockades, sanctions, no fly zones,and every single Israeli bank account, investment and asset should be frozen.

This pussy footing around, treading on eggshells shit... only suits those murdering blood thirsty, land grabbing illegal cunts.