Kicking off in Israel

[C69]

Did you watch the video? Children excited about stabbing and running over Jews.

Hamas need to be completely removed. The whole area needs to be de-radicalised.

Else there will be a continuous Oct 7 attacks. As well as the existing regular attempts at killing Jews.

How do you de -radicalise the Israeli settlers and right wingers?
Kill them? bomb the shit out of their homes and the Knesset?

I shouldn’t engage, such was the stupid in the post.

The Jewish/Israelis have settled everywhere else in this world without such problems.

He might be a prick but he’s right here ….

You do realise the murderous settlers in the West Bank have even been abandoned by the USA
Dumb cunt

[Raggs]

How do you de -radicalise the Israeli settlers and right wingers?
Kill them? bomb the shit out of their homes and the Knesset?

I shouldn’t engage, such was the stupid in the post.

The Jewish/Israelis have settled everywhere else in this world without such problems.

He might be a prick but he’s right here ….

You do realise the murderous settlers in the West Bank have even been abandoned by the USA
Dumb cunt

And at least partially by the Israeli government, which is fantastic news. Suspected murderers are to be detained without trial, being treated like the terrorists they are. I suspect, that they will get trials, simply as in other cases, they don't need to be tried for the police to hold them beyond normal procedure times.

Even if the Bibi government doesn't do it as much as they should, it's in place for the next government to have a much easier time of it.

[C69]

Why didn't they just add the ammendment calling out the Hamas act of terror at the UN?
Strange

[Raggs]

Why didn't they just add the ammendment calling out the Hamas act of terror at the UN?
Strange

For the same reason they didn't add it to the original resolution back in October. And for the same reason that they weren't willing to add a recognition of Israel's right to self defence, or that the red cross must be allowed to visit any remaining hostages.

[C69]

Why didn't they just add the ammendment calling out the Hamas act of terror at the UN?
Strange

For the same reason they didn't add it to the original resolution back in October. And for the same reason that they weren't willing to add a recognition of Israel's right to self defence, or that the red cross must be allowed to visit any remaining hostages.

Have the hundreds of not thousands of children or adults held in administrative detention rights of external visitation especially given the reports of physical and sexual abuse
Btw I agree with you but let's have a level playing field.

[Raggs]

Why didn't they just add the ammendment calling out the Hamas act of terror at the UN?
Strange

For the same reason they didn't add it to the original resolution back in October. And for the same reason that they weren't willing to add a recognition of Israel's right to self defence, or that the red cross must be allowed to visit any remaining hostages.

Have the hundreds of not thousands of children or adults held in administrative detention rights of external visitation especially given the reports of physical and sexual abuse
Btw I agree with you but let's have a level playing field.

Absolutely. No issue. I don't know if they don't have rights of visitation though, especially from the likes of neutral NGOs.

[Guy Smiley]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-10/ ... tent=other

Israelis aren't seeing the devastating pictures Australians see from the war in Gaza. They're watching a sanitised war

This is the tale of two wars.

There are two wars going on in Gaza right now — the one the Israeli public is watching and the one the rest of the world is watching.

Each evening, Israelis are sitting down to watch their prime-time television news programs to see what happened that day in this war.

And each evening, the pattern is much the same — night after night pictures of Israeli soldiers walking through streets of Gaza; Israeli tanks driving across fields in Gaza; interviews with families of hostages taken by Hamas on October 7; a military progress update by Israel's Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari.

There will rarely, if ever, be a picture of a Palestinian. If there is, it will likely be a picture of a Hamas commander. The Palestinians portrayed are terrorists, not civilians who are victims. Watching Hebrew-language TV at night over recent weeks, I've never seen a Palestinian victim of Israel's attack on Gaza.


It's the whole Israeli media, not just television. The newspapers – with the exception of Ha'aretz – are much the same. Thursday's edition of the mass-selling centre-right Yedioth Ahronoth, for example, had page after page on the war – I counted 50 war-related pictures of Israelis, including seven on page 1.

There was one picture of a Palestinian – Hamas commander Yahya Sinwar.

And social media – as social media does around the world – gives Israelis the feeds they want.

All of which means that most Israelis do not see pictures of injured Palestinian women and children or the destruction of Gaza into kilometre after kilometre of rubble to the point where it will be difficult to rebuild it.

They will rarely if ever see a child trapped in that rubble, or a mother carrying her dead baby. They don't see the screaming children, or the toddlers who cannot open their eyes.

Israelis are watching a sanitised war. They are not watching the same war as Australians, or anyone else.

They are not watching the same war that US Vice-President Kamala Harris is. And so when Harris says too many innocent Palestinians are being killed they don't understand why the US is pushing back on this war.

They are bewildered at why the world is increasingly uncomfortable at the high civilian death rate.
Inside Gaza, a devastating new term has emerged: WCNSF

Inside Gaza's overwhelmed hospital system, an influx of injured children arriving alone without any family has prompted doctors to coin a new term: Wounded Child, No Surviving Family.

It's important that we note this because it explains that Israelis are thinking completely differently about this war than much of the rest of the world. They cannot see the problem with this war continuing.

In terms of sheer numbers, rarely, if ever, has any country killed as many women and children as quickly as Israel is doing so today.

But Israelis are getting no sense of this. They are living in a bubble of sanitised news in which the Israeli Defense Forces is conducting a careful, clinical military operation in Gaza.

The Yedioth edition with the pictures of 50 Israelis came on a day that the UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres described the situation in Gaza as apocalyptic.

Apocalypse, what apocalypse?

Generally, the Israeli public dismisses all comments as typical of the UN – the general view here is that the UN is biased against Israel and will say whatever it can to hurt Israel.

But aid group after aid group is starting to use the same word. In the main Israelis do not see the pictures of screaming children running around looking for their parents.

'Quiet, we're shooting'

It's important to remember that the horrible pictures you are seeing on your TV screens are the ones suitable for broadcast. Those of us covering this war see far worse – I will not even attempt to describe in words some of the pictures we see coming out of Gaza.

What is going on in Gaza right now is infinitely worse than even these pictures run on international news bulletins – the really gruesome ones are never making it to air.

The Israeli government should keep in mind that at the end of this war they will still be neighbours. Gaza is only 68 kilometres from Jerusalem — just over an hour's drive.

The United Nations is saying that as much as 60 per cent of the accommodation in Gaza has been destroyed or damaged. When this is all over Israel will have a long-term humanitarian catastrophe on its doorstep.

To have a million or more homeless people living next door will not augur well for the long-term future.

Israelis have an expression for the mindset that they tend to adopt when at war — Sheket, yorim. This is a Hebrew expression that translates to "quiet, we're shooting".

What they mean by this is that during a war they want to focus – and not be distracted by outside noise and considerations.

There's another saying that many Israelis like to use about Gaza – that every so often they need to "mow the grass". When you ask them what this means, they explain that Gaza is like their backyard: every so often they need to tend to their yard, to keep the weeds – Hamas – under control.

In the six years I lived in Jerusalem there were three wars with Gaza – three times they mowed the grass. But this war is different. This is more than mowing grass – this is destroying most of the garden and killing many of the people who live in it.



Israelis concede this war is different. The horrors of the October 7 Hamas attack in southern Israel have emboldened Israelis to the view that never again can this happen.

But if the Israeli government and public does not realise that the growing international backlash over the way they are conducting this war is something they need to heed, they risk alienating much international opinion.

Gaza's health system is collapsing. International aid agencies say they can no longer do their work. The United Nations says there is no longer any humanitarian assistance worthy of the name humanitarian.

And as winter sets in, aid agencies are worried that disease will take hold, with few medicines or drinking water to try to stave off a health crisis.

As they sit down to watch their war update at nights, any sense of Sheket, yorim – quiet, we're shooting – is unlikely to hold.

[Calculon]

This forum does have a spoiler function, and the bit in red is patently nonsense

[C69]

This forum does have a spoiler function, and the bit in red is patently nonsense

Feel free to counter the post with evidence.
You normally run off after your smears and lies.

[Calculon]

This forum does have a spoiler function, and the bit in red is patently nonsense

Feel free to counter the post with evidence.
You normally run off after your smears and lies.

What lies, you smearing Welcher. What are the latest Hamas figures, 8000 women and children, wonder if that includes the over 500 who they claimed died in the fictional bombing of an hospital by Israel

The Hiroshima bombing alone killed something like a 120000 people.

[C69]

This forum does have a spoiler function, and the bit in red is patently nonsense

Feel free to counter the post with evidence.
You normally run off after your smears and lies.

What lies, you smearing Welcher. What are the latest Hamas figures, 8000 women and children, wonder if that includes the over 500 who they claimed died in the fictional bombing of an hospital by Israel

The Hiroshima bombing alone killed something like a 120000 people.

Japan wtf?
I don't believe the HAMAS terrorist shit or the IDF state terror figures
Gtfo

[Raggs]

Feel free to counter the post with evidence.
You normally run off after your smears and lies.

What lies, you smearing Welcher. What are the latest Hamas figures, 8000 women and children, wonder if that includes the over 500 who they claimed died in the fictional bombing of an hospital by Israel

The Hiroshima bombing alone killed something like a 120000 people.

Japan wtf?
I don't believe the HAMAS terrorist shit or the IDF state terror figures
Gtfo

You asked for evidence against the bit in red and it was clearly given? Yes it's going back a bit, but it's a very good example. I strongly suspect there are others. Ukrainians have hated the comparison with their numbers as they've claimed they've been unable to count the real figures since the Russians have dumped them in mass graves in occupied areas.

The figures from Hamas have been massively adjusted months after conflict. Not sure if I stated here before, but in operation cast lead, they originally claimed of the 1100-1400 deaths, only 50 were militants. 6 months later in interviews, their officials stated it was in fact 600-700.

I don't know if they'll be around to adjust the claims after this war, I hope not, but I strongly suspect their figures. Even if raw numbers are correct, women and children numbers are constantly climbing in terms of percentage (over 75% now apparently) and that's despite the fact we're now seeing more ground war than bombing.

And of course, we have to add in all the civilians Hamas have killed themselves.

Lots of civilians have been killed, but this conflict gets more media interest than many other devastating conflicts.

[Raggs]

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukrai ... 0ea99b9ad9

Mauripol alone is estimated to have had 25k civilians killed in the 3 or so months it was sieged, later estimates in the following month reckon that could be three times as high. And that's just one city in the entire war zone.

[Ymx]

He’s best ignored. Don’t give him attention

[C69]

What lies, you smearing Welcher. What are the latest Hamas figures, 8000 women and children, wonder if that includes the over 500 who they claimed died in the fictional bombing of an hospital by Israel

The Hiroshima bombing alone killed something like a 120000 people.

Japan wtf?
I don't believe the HAMAS terrorist shit or the IDF state terror figures
Gtfo

You asked for evidence against the bit in red and it was clearly given? Yes it's going back a bit, but it's a very good example. I strongly suspect there are others. Ukrainians have hated the comparison with their numbers as they've claimed they've been unable to count the real figures since the Russians have dumped them in mass graves in occupied areas.

The figures from Hamas have been massively adjusted months after conflict. Not sure if I stated here before, but in operation cast lead, they originally claimed of the 1100-1400 deaths, only 50 were militants. 6 months later in interviews, their officials stated it was in fact 600-700.

I don't know if they'll be around to adjust the claims after this war, I hope not, but I strongly suspect their figures. Even if raw numbers are correct, women and children numbers are constantly climbing in terms of percentage (over 75% now apparently) and that's despite the fact we're now seeing more ground war than bombing.

And of course, we have to add in all the civilians Hamas have killed themselves.

Lots of civilians have been killed, but this conflict gets more media interest than many other devastating conflicts.

I have had no evidence from Calculon at all.
Btw as as I have said previously I have no issue with Israel murdering the Hamas leaders and their fanatical foot soldiers.
It's not top trumps ffs

[Guy Smiley]

It doesn't matter what figure you put up here... it will be discredited as a matter of course in what looks almost like an automated set of responses in a torrent of semi abusive posts that serve to distract from the reality that it is large scale, indisciminate killing of civilians... most of whom are women in children because that's the demographic of the target population.

But Hamas bad. But self defense.

This from one of the best resourced, highly trained and equipped military forces in the world and the nation which has, for years, systematically broken ceasefire itself, committed crimes and atrocities against the captive population while slowly stealing their land and claims the right to self defense while denying it to Palestine.

[Raggs]

Military pressure is apparently working on Hamas. Senior leaders in Israeli prisons have apparently written a letter to state that hamas shouldn't bother with prisoner exchange and use the remaining hostages to buy a ceasefire. If true, suggests to me that they're scared that Hamas are in serious trouble if things don't stop.

[petej]

Military pressure is apparently working on Hamas. Senior leaders in Israeli prisons have apparently written a letter to state that hamas shouldn't bother with prisoner exchange and use the remaining hostages to buy a ceasefire. If true, suggests to me that they're scared that Hamas are in serious trouble if things don't stop.

Alas, the only way to deal with dictatorships. I feel the weak response to the Russian invasion of Ukrainian invasion by democracies has partly encouraged this. It emboldened the shitty gulf dictatorships to push the Hamas leadership in Qatar. We know they don't really give a shit about the Palestinians anymore than they do those in Yemen or about the planet from the latest COP. Make no mistake if they weren't funding attacks on Israel they would be funding attacks on democracies elsewhere. Those who think Israel isn't showing restraint are underestimating Israeli capabilities.

A reminder from another thread

This is how the United Arab Emirates welcomes Putin, a war criminal wanted by the ICC, in Dubai during his visit to the country. Putin will attend the UN Climate Change Conference. UAE hasn't signed the ICC founding treaty, meaning they don't face any obligation to arrest Putin.

[C69]

Military pressure is apparently working on Hamas. Senior leaders in Israeli prisons have apparently written a letter to state that hamas shouldn't bother with prisoner exchange and use the remaining hostages to buy a ceasefire. If true, suggests to me that they're scared that Hamas are in serious trouble if things don't stop.

Alas, the only way to deal with dictatorships. I feel the weak response to the Russian invasion of Ukrainian invasion by democracies has partly encouraged this. It emboldened the shitty gulf dictatorships to push the Hamas leadership in Qatar. We know they don't really give a shit about the Palestinians anymore than they do those in Yemen or about the planet from the latest COP. Make no mistake if they weren't funding attacks on Israel they would be funding attacks on democracies elsewhere. Those who think Israel isn't showing restraint are underestimating Israeli capabilities.

A reminder from another thread

This is how the United Arab Emirates welcomes Putin, a war criminal wanted by the ICC, in Dubai during his visit to the country. Putin will attend the UN Climate Change Conference. UAE hasn't signed the ICC founding treaty, meaning they don't face any obligation to arrest Putin.

So you think this is why Bibi doesn't care about slaughtering tens of thousands and targets kids in schools?

[robmatic]

This forum does have a spoiler function, and the bit in red is patently nonsense

Feel free to counter the post with evidence.
You normally run off after your smears and lies.

What lies, you smearing Welcher. What are the latest Hamas figures, 8000 women and children, wonder if that includes the over 500 who they claimed died in the fictional bombing of an hospital by Israel

The Hiroshima bombing alone killed something like a 120000 people.

25,000 in the Dresden bombing, which is not a bad effort with conventional weapons.

More recently, and in the neighbouring country to Israel, we've seen 200,000 or so civilian deaths, albeit spread out over a few years.

Wars are quite unpleasant.

[Uncle fester]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-10/ ... tent=other

Israelis aren't seeing the devastating pictures Australians see from the war in Gaza. They're watching a sanitised war

This is the tale of two wars.

There are two wars going on in Gaza right now — the one the Israeli public is watching and the one the rest of the world is watching.

Each evening, Israelis are sitting down to watch their prime-time television news programs to see what happened that day in this war.

And each evening, the pattern is much the same — night after night pictures of Israeli soldiers walking through streets of Gaza; Israeli tanks driving across fields in Gaza; interviews with families of hostages taken by Hamas on October 7; a military progress update by Israel's Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari.

There will rarely, if ever, be a picture of a Palestinian. If there is, it will likely be a picture of a Hamas commander. The Palestinians portrayed are terrorists, not civilians who are victims. Watching Hebrew-language TV at night over recent weeks, I've never seen a Palestinian victim of Israel's attack on Gaza.


It's the whole Israeli media, not just television. The newspapers – with the exception of Ha'aretz – are much the same. Thursday's edition of the mass-selling centre-right Yedioth Ahronoth, for example, had page after page on the war – I counted 50 war-related pictures of Israelis, including seven on page 1.

There was one picture of a Palestinian – Hamas commander Yahya Sinwar.

And social media – as social media does around the world – gives Israelis the feeds they want.

All of which means that most Israelis do not see pictures of injured Palestinian women and children or the destruction of Gaza into kilometre after kilometre of rubble to the point where it will be difficult to rebuild it.

They will rarely if ever see a child trapped in that rubble, or a mother carrying her dead baby. They don't see the screaming children, or the toddlers who cannot open their eyes.

Israelis are watching a sanitised war. They are not watching the same war as Australians, or anyone else.

They are not watching the same war that US Vice-President Kamala Harris is. And so when Harris says too many innocent Palestinians are being killed they don't understand why the US is pushing back on this war.

They are bewildered at why the world is increasingly uncomfortable at the high civilian death rate.
Inside Gaza, a devastating new term has emerged: WCNSF

Inside Gaza's overwhelmed hospital system, an influx of injured children arriving alone without any family has prompted doctors to coin a new term: Wounded Child, No Surviving Family.

It's important that we note this because it explains that Israelis are thinking completely differently about this war than much of the rest of the world. They cannot see the problem with this war continuing.

In terms of sheer numbers, rarely, if ever, has any country killed as many women and children as quickly as Israel is doing so today.

But Israelis are getting no sense of this. They are living in a bubble of sanitised news in which the Israeli Defense Forces is conducting a careful, clinical military operation in Gaza.

The Yedioth edition with the pictures of 50 Israelis came on a day that the UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres described the situation in Gaza as apocalyptic.

Apocalypse, what apocalypse?

Generally, the Israeli public dismisses all comments as typical of the UN – the general view here is that the UN is biased against Israel and will say whatever it can to hurt Israel.

But aid group after aid group is starting to use the same word. In the main Israelis do not see the pictures of screaming children running around looking for their parents.

'Quiet, we're shooting'

It's important to remember that the horrible pictures you are seeing on your TV screens are the ones suitable for broadcast. Those of us covering this war see far worse – I will not even attempt to describe in words some of the pictures we see coming out of Gaza.

What is going on in Gaza right now is infinitely worse than even these pictures run on international news bulletins – the really gruesome ones are never making it to air.

The Israeli government should keep in mind that at the end of this war they will still be neighbours. Gaza is only 68 kilometres from Jerusalem — just over an hour's drive.

The United Nations is saying that as much as 60 per cent of the accommodation in Gaza has been destroyed or damaged. When this is all over Israel will have a long-term humanitarian catastrophe on its doorstep.

To have a million or more homeless people living next door will not augur well for the long-term future.

Israelis have an expression for the mindset that they tend to adopt when at war — Sheket, yorim. This is a Hebrew expression that translates to "quiet, we're shooting".

What they mean by this is that during a war they want to focus – and not be distracted by outside noise and considerations.

There's another saying that many Israelis like to use about Gaza – that every so often they need to "mow the grass". When you ask them what this means, they explain that Gaza is like their backyard: every so often they need to tend to their yard, to keep the weeds – Hamas – under control.

In the six years I lived in Jerusalem there were three wars with Gaza – three times they mowed the grass. But this war is different. This is more than mowing grass – this is destroying most of the garden and killing many of the people who live in it.



Israelis concede this war is different. The horrors of the October 7 Hamas attack in southern Israel have emboldened Israelis to the view that never again can this happen.

But if the Israeli government and public does not realise that the growing international backlash over the way they are conducting this war is something they need to heed, they risk alienating much international opinion.

Gaza's health system is collapsing. International aid agencies say they can no longer do their work. The United Nations says there is no longer any humanitarian assistance worthy of the name humanitarian.

And as winter sets in, aid agencies are worried that disease will take hold, with few medicines or drinking water to try to stave off a health crisis.

As they sit down to watch their war update at nights, any sense of Sheket, yorim – quiet, we're shooting – is unlikely to hold.

Interesting articles and it's true. The guys we work with have no idea what is happening to ordinary Palestinians.

[Flockwitt]

Israel isn’t Russia. Plenty of smart people with access to international news.

I was talking to a guy in Israel last week and currently his general reactions are basic. Grateful none of his immediate family members were hurt in the rocket attacks, sad for deaths he does know about, concern for relatives fighting in the army, happy some sort of normality is returning to daily life.

[Thor Sedan]

Is there any chance that Israel would set aside defence budget and other areas to develop the Gaza strip with infrastructure, water, sewage, schools etc? Make the territory liveable, sustainable in conjunction with all these 'moderate' Palestinians?

Seems like the current situation would suggest that this is probably not on the table in the future - BUT - would the process of Israel actually aiding and improving life inside the strip - working with Palestinian groups removed the power that Hamas gained?

[C69]

Is there any chance that Israel would set aside defence budget and other areas to develop the Gaza strip with infrastructure, water, sewage, schools etc? Make the territory liveable, sustainable in conjunction with all these 'moderate' Palestinians?

Seems like the current situation would suggest that this is probably not on the table in the future - BUT - would the process of Israel actually aiding and improving life inside the strip - working with Palestinian groups removed the power that Hamas gained?

The piece in today's Telegraph highlights that very same issue.
And how hundreds of millions of dollars were siphoned off to Hamas. Israel basically armed these cunts and allowed the Gaza infra structure to crumble.
Now a million dispossessed next door to Israel.
It's gonna be a cluster fuck. For decades

[Guy Smiley]

Is there any chance that Israel would set aside defence budget and other areas to develop the Gaza strip with infrastructure, water, sewage, schools etc? Make the territory liveable, sustainable in conjunction with all these 'moderate' Palestinians?

Seems like the current situation would suggest that this is probably not on the table in the future - BUT - would the process of Israel actually aiding and improving life inside the strip - working with Palestinian groups removed the power that Hamas gained?

The piece in today's Telegraph highlights that very same issue.
And how hundreds of millions of dollars were siphoned off to Hamas. Israel basically armed these cunts and allowed the Gaza infra structure to crumble.
Now a million dispossessed next door to Israel.
It's gonna be a cluster fuck. For decades

Once they finish with this latest round of weeding, they'll be able to freely assist Palestine with the development of oil and gas fields, helped by the generosity of the USA, of course.

[C69]

Is there any chance that Israel would set aside defence budget and other areas to develop the Gaza strip with infrastructure, water, sewage, schools etc? Make the territory liveable, sustainable in conjunction with all these 'moderate' Palestinians?

Seems like the current situation would suggest that this is probably not on the table in the future - BUT - would the process of Israel actually aiding and improving life inside the strip - working with Palestinian groups removed the power that Hamas gained?

The piece in today's Telegraph highlights that very same issue.
And how hundreds of millions of dollars were siphoned off to Hamas. Israel basically armed these cunts and allowed the Gaza infra structure to crumble.
Now a million dispossessed next door to Israel.
It's gonna be a cluster fuck. For decades

Once they finish with this latest round of weeding, they'll be able to freely assist Palestine with the development of oil and gas fields, helped by the generosity of the USA, of course.

The USA have now bitten the bullet and will soon tell Bibi to stop killing civilians and let them have aid.
Calls for a regime change in Israel have been mooted

[Raggs]

The USA have now bitten the bullet and will soon tell Bibi to stop killing civilians and let them have aid.
Calls for a regime change in Israel have been mooted

They've already given a deadline of the first week of Jan.

The government in Israel was already close to collapse, this war has kept it alive only to avoid the disruption of an election during a war, but Bibi is (and was) well on his way out.

[Hugo]

Is there any knowledge on the likely destination of the Palestinian refugees? Based off of past situations presumably Europe.

[Hugo]

The countries (other than the US and Israel) who voted against the ceasefire resolution in the General Assembly:

Europe - Austria, Czech Republic,
Lat Am - Guatemala, Paraguay,
Africa - Liberia &
Oceania - Micronesia, Nauru, Papua New Guinea.

Anyone know why Austria and the Czech Rep voted against?

[Raggs]

The countries (other than the US and Israel) who voted against the ceasefire resolution in the General Assembly:

Europe - Austria, Czech Republic,
Lat Am - Guatemala, Paraguay,
Africa - Liberia &
Oceania - Micronesia, Nauru, Papua New Guinea.

Anyone know why Austria and the Czech Rep voted against?

Czech pointed out that the call still didn't condemn the Hamas attack on the 7th breaking the previous ceasefire, along with similar points.

Unga aren't binding resolutions (not that the binding UN ones are either).

[Raggs]

Just to add, the polls coming out of Palestine, really aren't convincing to me. I've read that one of the main guys running the polls is a big Hamas supporter, and is likely fudging the numbers, but in truth, even without that, I wouldn't expect everyone to tell the truth regardless. If I was in their situation I'd be highly suspicious that the poll is a trap by a vicious gang of baby murderers, who are known to execute people that disagree with them.

Yes, there were a ton of Palestinians clearly celebrating Oct 7th, well beyond any sort of "Let's pretend to stay safe." would require, but the extremists in the public would be sufficient to make those large crowds. Just like we can see marches of extremists in western countries, that still fill streets etc.

[C69]

Just to add, the polls coming out of Palestine, really aren't convincing to me. I've read that one of the main guys running the polls is a big Hamas supporter, and is likely fudging the numbers, but in truth, even without that, I wouldn't expect everyone to tell the truth regardless. If I was in their situation I'd be highly suspicious that the poll is a trap by a vicious gang of baby murderers, who are known to execute people that disagree with them.

Yes, there were a ton of Palestinians clearly celebrating Oct 7th, well beyond any sort of "Let's pretend to stay safe." would require, but the extremists in the public would be sufficient to make those large crowds. Just like we can see marches of extremists in western countries, that still fill streets etc.

Lol yes polls are reliable from Hamas or the IDF areas tbhql

[Raggs]

Just to add, the polls coming out of Palestine, really aren't convincing to me. I've read that one of the main guys running the polls is a big Hamas supporter, and is likely fudging the numbers, but in truth, even without that, I wouldn't expect everyone to tell the truth regardless. If I was in their situation I'd be highly suspicious that the poll is a trap by a vicious gang of baby murderers, who are known to execute people that disagree with them.

Yes, there were a ton of Palestinians clearly celebrating Oct 7th, well beyond any sort of "Let's pretend to stay safe." would require, but the extremists in the public would be sufficient to make those large crowds. Just like we can see marches of extremists in western countries, that still fill streets etc.

Lol yes polls are reliable from Hamas or the IDF areas tbhql

tbhql?

[David in Gwent]

Is there any knowledge on the likely destination of the Palestinian refugees? Based off of past situations presumably Europe.

the fact that they may come to Europe and not other Arab countries tells you everything you need to know.

[David in Gwent]

Is there any chance that Israel would set aside defence budget and other areas to develop the Gaza strip with infrastructure, water, sewage, schools etc? Make the territory liveable, sustainable in conjunction with all these 'moderate' Palestinians?

Seems like the current situation would suggest that this is probably not on the table in the future - BUT - would the process of Israel actually aiding and improving life inside the strip - working with Palestinian groups removed the power that Hamas gained?

The piece in today's Telegraph highlights that very same issue.
And how hundreds of millions of dollars were siphoned off to Hamas. Israel basically armed these cunts and allowed the Gaza infra structure to crumble.
Now a million dispossessed next door to Israel.
It's gonna be a cluster fuck. For decades

Did the article say how Israel could have stopped the siphoning of cash to Hamas?

[David in Gwent]

Propaganda meets counter Propaganda:

[C69]

Is there any chance that Israel would set aside defence budget and other areas to develop the Gaza strip with infrastructure, water, sewage, schools etc? Make the territory liveable, sustainable in conjunction with all these 'moderate' Palestinians?

Seems like the current situation would suggest that this is probably not on the table in the future - BUT - would the process of Israel actually aiding and improving life inside the strip - working with Palestinian groups removed the power that Hamas gained?

The piece in today's Telegraph highlights that very same issue.
And how hundreds of millions of dollars were siphoned off to Hamas. Israel basically armed these cunts and allowed the Gaza infra structure to crumble.
Now a million dispossessed next door to Israel.
It's gonna be a cluster fuck. For decades

Did the article say how Israel could have stopped the siphoning of cash to Hamas?

The article made it clear it happened for years and it is strongly suggested Bibi knew and did not care were the money went.

[Line6 HXFX]

Israel since way back, knew they were the invaders, the illegal aggressors...and that the very best they could hope for in the eyes of the world, was the world to see them and the Palestinians as equally bad. This was actual policy.

There will never be a two state solution, Palestine will never have a separate state, as it will just be largely millions of angry young men, with zero water or fertile land, able to import arms , and be a massive threat on Israels border.

It is perpetual war. Perpetual f'king conflict. No solutions or peace here.

Continuous conflict is the very best outcome for Israel.

Posted this on like day one to people losing their shit, in reaction to it, now Israeli officials are admitting it.


I don't expect apologies (you get shit whether you are right or wrong)...I just need you to recognise how fucking awesome and astute I am.

[C69]

This is going to be very very bad, Israel will go in full bore and its going to set the region on fire .

Yip it's goiung to be Old Testament Biblical and lets see if the UN ignore civilian and children Palestian deaths as they mount up.
There's going to be a real fish in a barell look to it.

And so it came to pass

[Line6 HXFX]

What, me explaining accurately what the actual policy of various Israeli governments over the years is?

These are not my policies.

I am all for removal of embargoes etc, and the Palestinians having a separate state and being able to get loans, foriegn investment and using it to build dams and infrastructure and shit.
Being a bit of a player in the area, with a young vibrant, fiesty growing population.


Israel f'king ain't.

Post two...the reaction to this was like I fucked your mum in front of you.