Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Ymx]

Oh dear god this is the useless embarrassment we are facing being stuck with

[Ymx]

If the above link didn’t work

[Guy Smiley]

[petej]

If the above link didn’t work

The working class is such a nebulous thing. It is gotcha gossip and bullshit. Political "journalism" in the UK is very similar to football transfer gossip. The reporter has zero interest in anything of substance. He like many will close down any sort of discussion on wealth, inequality and demographics of the people in this country.

[Ymx]

If the above link didn’t work

The working class is such a nebulous thing. It is gotcha gossip and bullshit. Political "journalism" in the UK is very similar to football transfer gossip. The reporter has zero interest in anything of substance. He like many will close down any sort of discussion on wealth, inequality and demographics of the people in this country.

It’s Starmer who keeps banging on about it. About his working class upbringing - his dad the toolmaker - their campaign for the working people. It’s only fair to ask him …

He is just a total blabbering moron with his response.

It’s fvcking embarrassing

[Tichtheid]

Oh dear god this is the useless embarrassment we are facing being stuck with

"You could always go back where you came from if you don't like it."

Isn't that what the right wingnuts say?

[Guy Smiley]

Has 'X' gone back to revealing tweets to subscribers only?

Every tweet in this thread over the last couple of pages has a 'tweet unavailable' message showing for me.

Which is... nice.

[Tichtheid]

Has 'X' gone back to revealing tweets to subscribers only?

Every tweet in this thread over the last couple of pages has a 'tweet unavailable' message showing for me.

Which is... nice.

I read elsewhere that tweets are not embedding on various websites, you can view them if you click on them, if you have an account.

Another Musk success story

[Guy Smiley]

23D chess megamind

[petej]

If the above link didn’t work

The working class is such a nebulous thing. It is gotcha gossip and bullshit. Political "journalism" in the UK is very similar to football transfer gossip. The reporter has zero interest in anything of substance. He like many will close down any sort of discussion on wealth, inequality and demographics of the people in this country.

It’s Starmer who keeps banging on about it. About his working class upbringing - his dad the toolmaker - their campaign for the working people. It’s only fair to ask him …

He is just a total blabbering moron with his response.

It’s fvcking embarrassing

I doubt starmer really wants to discuss this. It keeps coming up because bullshit, distraction and nonsense is what the billionaire masters wants us/the public to listen to and has reduced our politics to.

[sockwithaticket]

If the above link didn’t work

The working class is such a nebulous thing. It is gotcha gossip and bullshit. Political "journalism" in the UK is very similar to football transfer gossip. The reporter has zero interest in anything of substance. He like many will close down any sort of discussion on wealth, inequality and demographics of the people in this country.

Our notions of class below ruling are broken and designed to help the former keep the working and supposed middle at each others throats. The majority of the population are selling their labour to keep a roof of their head and food in their belly while not earning enough to do a great deal more. A spark or plumber will swear up and down that they're working class, but any that are reasonably established will be earning a good deal more than plenty of office drones, academics, lawers, teachers etc. Which means people try and push discussion into to what type of work constitutes working class and stuff about values and upbringing. Much harder to quantify or qualify.

[sockwithaticket]

The working class is such a nebulous thing. It is gotcha gossip and bullshit. Political "journalism" in the UK is very similar to football transfer gossip. The reporter has zero interest in anything of substance. He like many will close down any sort of discussion on wealth, inequality and demographics of the people in this country.

It’s Starmer who keeps banging on about it. About his working class upbringing - his dad the toolmaker - their campaign for the working people. It’s only fair to ask him …

He is just a total blabbering moron with his response.

It’s fvcking embarrassing

I doubt starmer really wants to discuss this. It keeps coming up because bullshit, distraction and nonsense is what the billionaire masters wants us/the public to listen to and has reduced our politics to.

I haven't seen it too much recently, but there was a point where the Tories were trying to lean in hard on his title and worth, safe in the knowledge that their pet press wouldn't trouble themselves to point out the number of titles and amount of wealth sitting on the government benches.

[fishfoodie]

It’s Starmer who keeps banging on about it. About his working class upbringing - his dad the toolmaker - their campaign for the working people. It’s only fair to ask him …

He is just a total blabbering moron with his response.

It’s fvcking embarrassing

I doubt starmer really wants to discuss this. It keeps coming up because bullshit, distraction and nonsense is what the billionaire masters wants us/the public to listen to and has reduced our politics to.

I haven't seen it too much recently, but there was a point where the Tories were trying to lean in hard on his title and worth, safe in the knowledge that their pet press wouldn't trouble themselves to point out the number of titles and amount of wealth sitting on the government benches.

with all the working class heros that the Tories have ......

I can't remember; was Keir famous for burning fifty pound notes in the faces of the homeless when he was in school ?

Of maybe he's like 50p Lee, who wants to climb to the top so he can shit on everyone else ?

Or maybe like new Tory Leader Ferret face, who'se biggest issue this year was that Couts said he was too poor for them ?

[_Os_]

YMX what would you say if Starmer answered with something along the lines of "the working class are those who have the surplus value of their labour extracted from them who do not own the means of production", or something like that?

My guess is you would respond with something along the lines of "fuck me this man is a raging commie! ".

I'm a bit suspicious of Starmer, but it's a question he cannot answer. Give a real answer and he's a dangerous revolutionary. Give a fake answer where he just describes how working class is now understood by most people in the UK, and it sounds meaningless because the common understanding of working class in the UK is meaningless. Multi millionaire business owners will tell you they're "hard working" and therefore "working class".

[fishfoodie]

YMX what would you say if Starmer answered with something along the lines of "the working class are those who have the surplus value of their labour extracted from them who do not own the means of production", or something like that?

My guess is you would respond with something along the lines of "fuck me this man is a raging commie! ".

I'm a bit suspicious of Starmer, but it's a question he cannot answer. Give a real answer and he's a dangerous revolutionary. Give a fake answer where he just describes how working class is now understood by most people in the UK, and it sounds meaningless because the common understanding of working class in the UK is meaningless. Multi millionaire business owners will tell you they're "hard working" and therefore "working class".

It's just the political equivalent of asking someone when they stopped beating their wife ?

It's a bullshit question asked by a right-wing journo. Let's see him asking the Head boy about how he feels being a billionaire allows him to understand the day to day struggles of someone battling with the cunts in the benefits office, & ending up having to choose between heat & food for their children, or themselves

[Biffer]

Oh dear god this is the useless embarrassment we are facing being stuck with

"You could always go back where you came from if you don't like it."

Isn't that what the right wingnuts say?

I believe that’s the case, yeah.

[Line6 HXFX]

I am underclass. I mean I nearly own my own home outright, I have lots of qualifications, I treat people beautifully (currently struggling in agony to cook an early Christmas dinner for my neighbour, family and mrs as she is working on christmas day), if I see a homeless person I give them half of what I have, I respect family, friends, have many interests..help stray cats..did a ton of voluntary work..but I consider myself part of the underclass, as every tory in the land (whether they are working, middle or upper class) wants me dehumanised, living in a tent..working in a field, to kill myself, or to just shoot whatever abuse or wild accusations my way.

It's good to know whatever terrible shit we are going through in life , whatever kindnesses we bring.. we underclass have consistent powerful enemies, with an unlimited supply of self serving contempt for us.

[Calculon]

She is a moron, but the researchers did make an explicit link to the present day according to that article. Makes me feel dirty to say, but I don't think she's wholly out of line in saying that research drawing a fairly tenuous and speculative gap, however couched in qualifications, between minority treatment then and now could be fairly inflammatory.

Of course, if she'd said nothing, this likely would have passed entirely without notice.

By examining five features of the skulls and comparing these with a forensic databank covering modern and historical global populations, it estimated the likely heritage of people who died and found that those of African heritage were disproportionately more likely to have died from plague than people of European or Asian ancestry, compared with non-plague deaths.

While stressing the need for caution given the sample size, the authors said the results suggested there was value in considering structural racism in such research, likening this to the higher death rates for people from some minority ethnic groups during Covid.

Stuff like that just reminds me why I didn't get on with the archaeology modules I had to do at uni when my first and second choice history modules were over-subscribed. It always felt like people groping around for a story to tell based on minimal evidence, combine that with the need to prove novelty of research avenue... I much preferred more modern periods where there was a greater written evidence base to get your teeth into.

The popular story to tell seems to be that England in the Middle Ages was racially diverse and full of non-whites.

Linked in that article:

Research has previously demonstrated that, far from being a homogeneous white society, medieval England – and its capital – had considerable diversity.


I suspect this is at least partly driven by the desire to combat white supremacist views that black people can’t be English or British. It does seem potentially counter productive though. Genuinely racist people are not going to believe that England in the Middle Ages was racially diverse, and to be fair, it is bollocks. Also, it does somewhat imply that the reason non-whites should be considered English or British is because there were non-whites in medieval England, rather than because they hold British citizenship. As far as I’m concerned if you hold a British passport, you’re 100% British whether you can trace your ancestors back to the time of Alfred the Great or if you’re Shamima Begum, who was treated disgracefully in having her citizenship revoked - don’t care what the Supreme Court says, also it’s a pretty obvious case of racism.

the authors said the results suggested there was value in considering structural racism in such research, likening this to the higher death rates for people from some minority ethnic groups during Covid


Also highly dubious about this. From what I’ve heard identity in the Middle Ages in England wasn’t based on racial identity but rather on your place in society and religion. So, a noble Christian Ethiopian would have been treated just fine but a peasant Muslim white would have a very hard time of it.


Interesting that the article is published in a book called “Bioarchaeology of Marginalized People”.

[Ymx]

YMX what would you say if Starmer answered with something along the lines of "the working class are those who have the surplus value of their labour extracted from them who do not own the means of production", or something like that?

My guess is you would respond with something along the lines of "fuck me this man is a raging commie! ".

I'm a bit suspicious of Starmer, but it's a question he cannot answer. Give a real answer and he's a dangerous revolutionary. Give a fake answer where he just describes how working class is now understood by most people in the UK, and it sounds meaningless because the common understanding of working class in the UK is meaningless. Multi millionaire business owners will tell you they're "hard working" and therefore "working class".

As I said above, it’s he that is pushing this working class distinction in his propaganda. If you are batting a phrase around, you must expect to be asked about it.

His response was dribble.

[sefton]

Just watched Mone and Barrowman on BBC1, they don’t think they have done anything wrong, poster children of the entitlement and corruption of the Conservatives.

[C69]

Just watched Mone and Barrowman on BBC1, they don’t think they have done anything wrong, poster children of the entitlement and corruption of the Conservatives.

Mone clearly thinks she did nothing wrong at all.
A Prince Andrew sweat moment. A car crash.
Quite amazing

[sefton]

Just watched Mone and Barrowman on BBC1, they don’t think they have done anything wrong, poster children of the entitlement and corruption of the Conservatives.

Mone clearly thinks she did nothing wrong at all.
A Prince Andrew sweat moment. A car crash.
Quite amazing

I’m sure I read somewhere that more MP’s have been suspended from this Parliament that ever before, although I will accept this is not important next to Starmer not being able to define working class to some posters acceptable level.

[Insane_Homer]

this is not important next to Starmer not being able to define working class to some posters acceptable level.

I'm reserving judgement until Sunak gives his answer.

[sefton]

this is not important next to Starmer not being able to define working class to some posters acceptable level.

I'm reserving judgement until Sunak gives his answer.

He thinks he may have met some.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/vi ... ends-video

[Uncle fester]

this is not important next to Starmer not being able to define working class to some posters acceptable level.

I'm reserving judgement until Sunak gives his answer.

It's Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson I'm waiting on.

[Hal Jordan]

Bashing Starmer about whether or not he's working class when it's just been revealed that Sunak intervened to keep his private helicopter, which fhe RAF were intending to stand down, shows exactly what sort of petulant, entitled rich boy who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing we have leading us.

[yermum]

He must have lovely soft hands. Imagine going through life and never getting a callous or blister….

[SaintK]

YMX what would you say if Starmer answered with something along the lines of "the working class are those who have the surplus value of their labour extracted from them who do not own the means of production", or something like that?

My guess is you would respond with something along the lines of "fuck me this man is a raging commie! ".

I'm a bit suspicious of Starmer, but it's a question he cannot answer. Give a real answer and he's a dangerous revolutionary. Give a fake answer where he just describes how working class is now understood by most people in the UK, and it sounds meaningless because the common understanding of working class in the UK is meaningless. Multi millionaire business owners will tell you they're "hard working" and therefore "working class".

As I said above, it’s he that is pushing this working class distinction in his propaganda. If you are batting a phrase around, you must expect to be asked about it.

His response was dribble.

Get used to it sunshine
The corrupt cunts you appear to support and their paymasters are soon going to be out of power.

[Ymx]

He must have lovely soft hands. Imagine going through life and never getting a callous or blister….

Could be talking about anyone here.

[SaintK]

Just watched Mone and Barrowman on BBC1, they don’t think they have done anything wrong, poster children of the entitlement and corruption of the Conservatives.

Mone clearly thinks she did nothing wrong at all.
A Prince Andrew sweat moment. A car crash.
Quite amazing

I hope the corrupt, lying bastards aren't paying for their PR advice.

[Ymx]

YMX what would you say if Starmer answered with something along the lines of "the working class are those who have the surplus value of their labour extracted from them who do not own the means of production", or something like that?

My guess is you would respond with something along the lines of "fuck me this man is a raging commie! ".

I'm a bit suspicious of Starmer, but it's a question he cannot answer. Give a real answer and he's a dangerous revolutionary. Give a fake answer where he just describes how working class is now understood by most people in the UK, and it sounds meaningless because the common understanding of working class in the UK is meaningless. Multi millionaire business owners will tell you they're "hard working" and therefore "working class".

As I said above, it’s he that is pushing this working class distinction in his propaganda. If you are batting a phrase around, you must expect to be asked about it.

His response was dribble.

Get used to it sunshine
The corrupt cunts you appear to support and their paymasters are soon going to be out of power.

Thanks buttercup

[Paddington Bear]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rchaeology

Kemi Bad Enoch remains a fucking moron I see.

Hard to draw a link to health services, but studies like this end up discrediting academia in general. See also the Cort metallurgy debate, and whilst it’s older a historian insisting that Anglo Saxons having the moniker ‘the black’ meant that they were highly diverse.

We’ve wildly overproduced academics.

[petej]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rchaeology

Kemi Bad Enoch remains a fucking moron I see.

Hard to draw a link to health services, but studies like this end up discrediting academia in general. See also the Cort metallurgy debate, and whilst it’s older a historian insisting that Anglo Saxons having the moniker ‘the black’ meant that they were highly diverse.

We’ve wildly overproduced academics.

Working incredibly hard to draw any link to health services. Genetics and overall health (from environmental/living conditions) is obviously a variable so not a surprise or news story. Worth considering is also intentionally vague and you could also say feel free to ignore. Politicians seem so simplistic and everything is black and white.

On the academic stuff in my area of materials there is an incredible amount of pisspoor papers. Designing experiments and running comprehensive testing is a dying skill in academia and industry (aerospace, nuclear power, power generation).

[_Os_]

YMX what would you say if Starmer answered with something along the lines of "the working class are those who have the surplus value of their labour extracted from them who do not own the means of production", or something like that?

My guess is you would respond with something along the lines of "fuck me this man is a raging commie! ".

I'm a bit suspicious of Starmer, but it's a question he cannot answer. Give a real answer and he's a dangerous revolutionary. Give a fake answer where he just describes how working class is now understood by most people in the UK, and it sounds meaningless because the common understanding of working class in the UK is meaningless. Multi millionaire business owners will tell you they're "hard working" and therefore "working class".

As I said above, it’s he that is pushing this working class distinction in his propaganda. If you are batting a phrase around, you must expect to be asked about it.

His response was dribble.

Get used to it sunshine
The corrupt cunts you appear to support and their paymasters are soon going to be out of power.

That's the crux of it, they're heavily corrupt. It's there from the lowest council level to the top of government. I would also class the obscene waste like Sunak's helicopter rides as a form of it.

Any South African on the thread will agree that if corruption isn't stamped out immediately asap, then that endorsement will mean it grows. The final destination is politics becoming entirely about ending corruption, it's impossible to do anything if every government action means the feeding trough comes out. I wonder about the crazy costs of doing anything (like building infrastructure) in the UK compared to Europe, contractors connected to the Tories and charging obscene amounts seem to be a growing feature.

A lot of people should be prosecuted and jailed. Labour have said the PPE stuff is going to be looked at. It'll be very bad if nothing happens over concerns it'll make the UK look bad due to the scale of it and the belief it will not happen again, the large scale and multiple high profile players means real action probably needs government approval. Not acting opens the possibility of much larger corruption later by the same people who went unpunished.

[Paddington Bear]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rchaeology

Kemi Bad Enoch remains a fucking moron I see.

Hard to draw a link to health services, but studies like this end up discrediting academia in general. See also the Cort metallurgy debate, and whilst it’s older a historian insisting that Anglo Saxons having the moniker ‘the black’ meant that they were highly diverse.

We’ve wildly overproduced academics.

Working incredibly hard to draw any link to health services. Genetics and overall health (from environmental/living conditions) is obviously a variable so not a surprise or news story. Worth considering is also intentionally vague and you could also say feel free to ignore. Politicians seem so simplistic and everything is black and white.

On the academic stuff in my area of materials there is an incredible amount of pisspoor papers. Designing experiments and running comprehensive testing is a dying skill in academia and industry (aerospace, nuclear power, power generation).

An awful lot of history papers (the Cort ones included) are exceptionally poorly referenced, some to the extent that they are either prepared by someone who is incompetent or deliberately dishonest.

[Hal Jordan]

Rwanda latest: Even if they try to fly people out of the country, no airline is willing to take the reputational damage. When the Home Office asked providers to sign contracts to get planes ready help the human trafficking scheme they all refused.

Some cunts will step up, I'm sure.

[tabascoboy]

Rwanda latest: Even if they try to fly people out of the country, no airline is willing to take the reputational damage. When the Home Office asked providers to sign contracts to get planes ready help the human trafficking scheme they all refused.

Some cunts will step up, I'm sure.

An article said they plan to use RAF Planes, the same paper also reported that Boscombe Down, north of Salisbury, is intended to be used as the airfield for flights.

Seems like a really good use of this resource #irony and The Times reported that the MoD doesn't actually want to get involved

[Calculon]

Hard to draw a link to health services, but studies like this end up discrediting academia in general. See also the Cort metallurgy debate, and whilst it’s older a historian insisting that Anglo Saxons having the moniker ‘the black’ meant that they were highly diverse.

We’ve wildly overproduced academics.

Working incredibly hard to draw any link to health services. Genetics and overall health (from environmental/living conditions) is obviously a variable so not a surprise or news story. Worth considering is also intentionally vague and you could also say feel free to ignore. Politicians seem so simplistic and everything is black and white.

On the academic stuff in my area of materials there is an incredible amount of pisspoor papers. Designing experiments and running comprehensive testing is a dying skill in academia and industry (aerospace, nuclear power, power generation).

An awful lot of history papers (the Cort ones included) are exceptionally poorly referenced, some to the extent that they are either prepared by someone who is incompetent or deliberately dishonest.

Probably also from the pressure of “publish or perish”, which has been around for ages but maybe getting worse. Quality is bound to go down.

[ASMO]

She is a moron, but the researchers did make an explicit link to the present day according to that article. Makes me feel dirty to say, but I don't think she's wholly out of line in saying that research drawing a fairly tenuous and speculative gap, however couched in qualifications, between minority treatment then and now could be fairly inflammatory.

Of course, if she'd said nothing, this likely would have passed entirely without notice.

By examining five features of the skulls and comparing these with a forensic databank covering modern and historical global populations, it estimated the likely heritage of people who died and found that those of African heritage were disproportionately more likely to have died from plague than people of European or Asian ancestry, compared with non-plague deaths.

While stressing the need for caution given the sample size, the authors said the results suggested there was value in considering structural racism in such research, likening this to the higher death rates for people from some minority ethnic groups during Covid.

Stuff like that just reminds me why I didn't get on with the archaeology modules I had to do at uni when my first and second choice history modules were over-subscribed. It always felt like people groping around for a story to tell based on minimal evidence, combine that with the need to prove novelty of research avenue... I much preferred more modern periods where there was a greater written evidence base to get your teeth into.

The popular story to tell seems to be that England in the Middle Ages was racially diverse and full of non-whites.

Linked in that article:

Research has previously demonstrated that, far from being a homogeneous white society, medieval England – and its capital – had considerable diversity.


I suspect this is at least partly driven by the desire to combat white supremacist views that black people can’t be English or British. It does seem potentially counter productive though. Genuinely racist people are not going to believe that England in the Middle Ages was racially diverse, and to be fair, it is bollocks. Also, it does somewhat imply that the reason non-whites should be considered English or British is because there were non-whites in medieval England, rather than because they hold British citizenship. As far as I’m concerned if you hold a British passport, you’re 100% British whether you can trace your ancestors back to the time of Alfred the Great or if you’re Shamima Begum, who was treated disgracefully in having her citizenship revoked - don’t care what the Supreme Court says, also it’s a pretty obvious case of racism.

the authors said the results suggested there was value in considering structural racism in such research, likening this to the higher death rates for people from some minority ethnic groups during Covid


Also highly dubious about this. From what I’ve heard identity in the Middle Ages in England wasn’t based on racial identity but rather on your place in society and religion. So, a noble Christian Ethiopian would have been treated just fine but a peasant Muslim white would have a very hard time of it.


Interesting that the article is published in a book called “Bioarchaeology of Marginalized People”.

i am struggling to see the significance of those, so fucking what, a disease we had no control over impacted some ethnicities more than others, this has been going on forever, sickle cell being a case in point.

[SaintK]

.......and another one under investigation!

The Conservative MP Miriam Cates has been placed under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog, PA Media reports.
The backbench MP is facing claims that she has caused “significant damage to the reputation of the house as a whole, or of its members generally”, according to the parliamentary commissioner for standards, Daniel Greenberg, who lists active investigations on his website.
It is not known what the investigation relates to.