The Scottish Politics Thread

[shaggy]

Not sure if I completely understand your post.

If councils were able to increase their own tax then couldn't that £144m have been spent elsewhere? I think i read as well that the £144 is about a 4.5% raise but councils were saying they needed at least 6.5% raise just to keep functioning. We may well be agreeing!

I was not looking at whether the increase was adequate for councils needs.

What I am saying is that freezing council tax has achieved nothing. Overall tax take has gone up, council spending has gone up, it is just that the councils get the money through income tax rather than council tax.

Had both council tax and income tax gone up then there would have been a greater increase in overall taxation, which could of course have been used for additional spending.

The tax burden through income means it targets the those which earn more. If it is done through council tax then it would impact all levels of wealth?

[Blackmac]

Not really politics, more cultural and heritage, but Perth Museum opens at Easter, after years of campaigning, planning and work. Brilliant to see the old City Halls redeveloped into something positive, and should help to boost that part of Perth into a bit of a hub of activity. Already loads of bars and restaurants around the square, hopefully it'll end up giving a bit of bustle to that part of two, and some boost to the cultural economy in Perth as a whole. And great to see the Stone of Scone back to (more or less) it's old home town.

https://perthmuseum.co.uk/the-stone-of-destiny/

Can't underestimate this kind of cultural investment btw. I'm really impressed with how Manchester has developed and grown in the last ten years or so, it's GDP per person is now nearly as high as Edinburgh's, which is where the major cities in the UK should be. Cultural and artistic investment and development was an important part of the redevelopment of Manchester (the Lowry, the Whitworth, HOME, Islington Mill, Imperial War Museum North, ICT, C4, BBC, etc). The benefit of cultural investment on the broader economy is very often overlooked.

Perth used to be a cracking wee city and a good night out. Good to hear about it picking up again.

[Blackmac]

This Bully XL thing just makes me want to give up. Is there a slowly shaking head emoji?

Yeah, you get the impression that they are absolutely asleep at the wheel and making shit up as they go along. Humza seems totally obsessed with Gaza and the rest dealing with things like Conversion Therapy which, whilst appalling has no affect on 99.9% of the country and should not be near the top of their legislative priorities.

Humza's claim that independence would leave each household £10200 better off per annum was just fantasy and shows he is just not a serious politician.

[Paddington Bear]

Not really politics, more cultural and heritage, but Perth Museum opens at Easter, after years of campaigning, planning and work. Brilliant to see the old City Halls redeveloped into something positive, and should help to boost that part of Perth into a bit of a hub of activity. Already loads of bars and restaurants around the square, hopefully it'll end up giving a bit of bustle to that part of two, and some boost to the cultural economy in Perth as a whole. And great to see the Stone of Scone back to (more or less) it's old home town.

https://perthmuseum.co.uk/the-stone-of-destiny/

Can't underestimate this kind of cultural investment btw. I'm really impressed with how Manchester has developed and grown in the last ten years or so, it's GDP per person is now nearly as high as Edinburgh's, which is where the major cities in the UK should be. Cultural and artistic investment and development was an important part of the redevelopment of Manchester (the Lowry, the Whitworth, HOME, Islington Mill, Imperial War Museum North, ICT, C4, BBC, etc). The benefit of cultural investment on the broader economy is very often overlooked.

Manchester’s growth has been astonishing. May be getting the exact sums wrong but 20/30 years ago fewer than 500 people lived in the city centre, and now it’s enormous. Anecdotally I know a number heading up there from the south and the GDP numbers speak for themselves.

Anything Manchester can do Glasgow can do too. Whether you want us is another matter but Scotland has a lot of largely untapped internal migration potential and I always feel the West in particular punches well below its weight economically. Fact is there remains a Glasgow stigma both within Scotland and the wider UK which needs to be addressed, as large parts of it are very unfair

[Tichtheid]

Humza's claim that independence would leave each household £10200 better off per annum was just fantasy and shows he is just not a serious politician.

That's not what he said though, is it?

[petej]

This Bully XL thing just makes me want to give up. Is there a slowly shaking head emoji?

They are ugly as hell and obviously created as a weapon. Get everyone and put all of them down.

[Biffer]

Not really politics, more cultural and heritage, but Perth Museum opens at Easter, after years of campaigning, planning and work. Brilliant to see the old City Halls redeveloped into something positive, and should help to boost that part of Perth into a bit of a hub of activity. Already loads of bars and restaurants around the square, hopefully it'll end up giving a bit of bustle to that part of two, and some boost to the cultural economy in Perth as a whole. And great to see the Stone of Scone back to (more or less) it's old home town.

https://perthmuseum.co.uk/the-stone-of-destiny/

Can't underestimate this kind of cultural investment btw. I'm really impressed with how Manchester has developed and grown in the last ten years or so, it's GDP per person is now nearly as high as Edinburgh's, which is where the major cities in the UK should be. Cultural and artistic investment and development was an important part of the redevelopment of Manchester (the Lowry, the Whitworth, HOME, Islington Mill, Imperial War Museum North, ICT, C4, BBC, etc). The benefit of cultural investment on the broader economy is very often overlooked.

Manchester’s growth has been astonishing. May be getting the exact sums wrong but 20/30 years ago fewer than 500 people lived in the city centre, and now it’s enormous. Anecdotally I know a number heading up there from the south and the GDP numbers speak for themselves.

Anything Manchester can do Glasgow can do too. Whether you want us is another matter but Scotland has a lot of largely untapped internal migration potential and I always feel the West in particular punches well below its weight economically. Fact is there remains a Glasgow stigma both within Scotland and the wider UK which needs to be addressed, as large parts of it are very unfair

Glasgow is very much a city that would benefit from cultural investment, given its creativity and vibrancy.

[Tichtheid]

This year sees the 30th anniversary of Glasgow's Celtic Connections festival - running for 18 days every January. It now has around 130 000 attendees, with a daily capacity of 25 000. It's been a tremendous success. The festival brings a £5M boost to the city's economy in what otherwise would be a very quiet month.

[Biffer]

This year sees the 30th anniversary of Glasgow's Celtic Connections festival - running for 18 days every January. It now has around 130 000 attendees, with a daily capacity of 25 000. It's been a tremendous success. The festival brings a £5M boost to the city's economy in what otherwise would be a very quiet month.

That helps. But it’s the investment in permanent assets - and some of this has happened in Glasgow, the Transport museum, museum of religious art, GoMA etc, but more is needed and the slow pace of rebuild of the GSA is a problem too. But there’s restoration of the Kings and the Citizens, shame they didn’t get the C4 hq, but that, plus the efforts to produce science and engineering industries across universities, the new science park on the south bank of the river, etc, it can happen in Glasgow as well. Just need continued focussed effort by successive national and local administrations.

[Blackmac]

Humza's claim that independence would leave each household £10200 better off per annum was just fantasy and shows he is just not a serious politician.

That's not what he said though, is it?

FFS, here we go again. As usual you can nitpick the exact details all you want "would'av, could'av," but that is certainly what he suggested. Not overnight but the ultimate potential gain of a fully independent Scotland

"He said that the average household would be £8,300 better off if the UK had the average income inequality of similar countries.

Using the same analysis for Scotland, Mr Yousaf said: "The prize for the typical Scottish household would be even greater, they would be £10,200 better off."

"That then, is the huge prize of independence."

[Tichtheid]

Humza's claim that independence would leave each household £10200 better off per annum was just fantasy and shows he is just not a serious politician.

That's not what he said though, is it?

FFS, here we go again. As usual you can nitpick the exact details all you want "would'av, could'av," but that is certainly what he suggested. Not overnight but the ultimate potential gain of a fully independent Scotland

"He said that the average household would be £8,300 better off if the UK had the average income inequality of similar countries.

Using the same analysis for Scotland, Mr Yousaf said: "The prize for the typical Scottish household would be even greater, they would be £10,200 better off."

"That then, is the huge prize of independence."

I think it reasonable to use an accurate quote if you are going to use it to then say the person isn’t a serious politician, it can be applied to anything really.

I could say Scotland will win the Six Nations.

Or, I could say that given that we have home games against England and France and the other teams have lost a few key personnel to injury, retirement or sabbatical and they face a few tough games themselves, if our squad stays fit and plays to its full potential for 80 minutes every game, we stand a chance of winning the 6N. We don’t have to win every game to do so, but providing other results go our way, the goal is to win the tournament.

The first statement is very different from the second.

Yousaf referred to a study done by the Resolution Foundation, again that point was left out in the second quote you gave, it’s probably worth hearing from Yousaf himself

[Blackmac]

That's not what he said though, is it?

FFS, here we go again. As usual you can nitpick the exact details all you want "would'av, could'av," but that is certainly what he suggested. Not overnight but the ultimate potential gain of a fully independent Scotland

"He said that the average household would be £8,300 better off if the UK had the average income inequality of similar countries.

Using the same analysis for Scotland, Mr Yousaf said: "The prize for the typical Scottish household would be even greater, they would be £10,200 better off."

"That then, is the huge prize of independence."

I think it reasonable to use an accurate quote if you are going to use it to then say the person isn’t a serious politician, it can be applied to anything really.

I could say Scotland will win the Six Nations.

Or, I could say that given that we have home games against England and France and the other teams have lost a few key personnel to injury, retirement or sabbatical and they face a few tough games themselves, if our squad stays fit and plays to its full potential for 80 minutes every game, we stand a chance of winning the 6N. We don’t have to win every game to do so, but providing other results go our way, the goal is to win the tournament.

The first statement is very different from the second.

Yousaf referred to a study done by the Resolution Foundation, again that point was left out in the second quote you gave, it’s probably worth hearing from Yousaf himself

If you said Scotland will win the 6 Nations I would think that your argument is very flawed and you are clearly not a serious rugby supporter. Even if you applied dozens of caveats I would still think you were talking bollocks because the chances of that falling it to place are so slim.

Yousaf knew what the headline was going to after his comments, and that is the headline that just about every media outlet has followed with since. Even the National said the day before that Yousaf was going to make the claim without adding the depth of detail you seem to require.

Not everyone has your Rainman like qualities or the time to forensically examine every issue and comment so they can spend their day being argumentative on the internet.

[Tichtheid]

If you are going be dishonest in your quotes I’m going to pick you up on it.

[Blackmac]

If you are going be dishonest in your quotes I’m going to pick you up on it.

There was nothing dishonest about the quote you lunatic. If you think that was dishonest I hope that you have written a strongly worded letter of complaint to just about every media outlet in the country, because like me, that is the headline they have been commenting on since. Maybe you have, I wouldn't be surprised.

What next, will you be wanting everyone to reference everything they say.

I can only think you must be great fun at the pub, boorishly objecting to everyone's comments because they are not up to your exacting standards. As I said before, this is an internet forum, the majority of chat on it is hardly accurate, just quick back and forward for a bit of light relief. It appears to be much more important to you. I'm sure if you look back on this thread there are dozens of similar comments.

I made the mistake of coming back on here after you made a deeply personal, inaccurate and unjustified attack a couple of years ago on this same thread and to be honest that was a mistake as I sadly seem to have found my own obsessed stalker, so I think that will be me for good.

[Big D]

This Bully XL thing just makes me want to give up. Is there a slowly shaking head emoji?

Yeah, you get the impression that they are absolutely asleep at the wheel and making shit up as they go along. Humza seems totally obsessed with Gaza and the rest dealing with things like Conversion Therapy which, whilst appalling has no affect on 99.9% of the country and should not be near the top of their legislative priorities.

Humza's claim that independence would leave each household £10200 better off per annum was just fantasy and shows he is just not a serious politician.

On the Bully XL thing the stance has clearly been "do the opposite of Westminster".

[Tichtheid]

If you are going be dishonest in your quotes I’m going to pick you up on it.

There was nothing dishonest about the quote you lunatic. If you think that was dishonest I hope that you have written a strongly worded letter of complaint to just about every media outlet in the country, because like me, that is the headline they have been commenting on since. Maybe you have, I wouldn't be surprised.

What next, will you be wanting everyone to reference everything they say.

I can only think you must be great fun at the pub, boorishly objecting to everyone's comments because they are not up to your exacting standards. As I said before, this is an internet forum, the majority of chat on it is hardly accurate, just quick back and forward for a bit of light relief. It appears to be much more important to you. I'm sure if you look back on this thread there are dozens of similar comments.

I made the mistake of coming back on here after you made a deeply personal, inaccurate and unjustified attack a couple of years ago on this same thread and to be honest that was a mistake as I sadly seem to have found my own obsessed stalker, so I think that will be me for good.

It was a misrepresentation of what Yousaf said. Yeah, the Express, Telegraph, Mail etc all carried a similar headline to what you posted - quelle surprise! They misrepresented him too.

Is it really too much to ask that if you quote someone you quote what they actually said?

[Slick]

This Bully XL thing just makes me want to give up. Is there a slowly shaking head emoji?

Yeah, you get the impression that they are absolutely asleep at the wheel and making shit up as they go along. Humza seems totally obsessed with Gaza and the rest dealing with things like Conversion Therapy which, whilst appalling has no affect on 99.9% of the country and should not be near the top of their legislative priorities.

Humza's claim that independence would leave each household £10200 better off per annum was just fantasy and shows he is just not a serious politician.

On the Bully XL thing the stance has clearly been "do the opposite of Westminster".

Yup. It was Siobhan Brown refusing to go along with the Westminster legislation saying it wasn't needed, then crying about people in England using "loophole" that really got me giggling. It was your fucking loophole you idiot. And as a vaguely sentient lettuce could have told you, we will soon adopt the legislation anyway.

[Tichtheid]

Yeah, you get the impression that they are absolutely asleep at the wheel and making shit up as they go along. Humza seems totally obsessed with Gaza and the rest dealing with things like Conversion Therapy which, whilst appalling has no affect on 99.9% of the country and should not be near the top of their legislative priorities.

Humza's claim that independence would leave each household £10200 better off per annum was just fantasy and shows he is just not a serious politician.

On the Bully XL thing the stance has clearly been "do the opposite of Westminster".

Yup. It was Siobhan Brown refusing to go along with the Westminster legislation saying it wasn't needed, then crying about people in England using "loophole" that really got me giggling. It was your fucking loophole you idiot. And as a vaguely sentient lettuce could have told you, we will soon adopt the legislation anyway.

I haven't really been following this particular story, what was the loophole? I read that people were sending dogs to Scotland - was that it?

[Slick]

On the Bully XL thing the stance has clearly been "do the opposite of Westminster".

Yup. It was Siobhan Brown refusing to go along with the Westminster legislation saying it wasn't needed, then crying about people in England using "loophole" that really got me giggling. It was your fucking loophole you idiot. And as a vaguely sentient lettuce could have told you, we will soon adopt the legislation anyway.

I haven't really been following this particular story, what was the loophole? I read that people were sending dogs to Scotland - was that it?

Yes. Gove asked SG to sign up to a UK wide piece of legislation that banned breeding, selling or walking them without a muzzle. SG said it wasn't necessary and people started sending the abandoned dogs up here, as predicted, and they are now panicking and looking at their own legislation.

It's not a big deal in the grand scheme, but just so stupid and predictable.

[Big D]

Yup. It was Siobhan Brown refusing to go along with the Westminster legislation saying it wasn't needed, then crying about people in England using "loophole" that really got me giggling. It was your fucking loophole you idiot. And as a vaguely sentient lettuce could have told you, we will soon adopt the legislation anyway.

I haven't really been following this particular story, what was the loophole? I read that people were sending dogs to Scotland - was that it?

Yes. Gove asked SG to sign up to a UK wide piece of legislation that banned breeding, selling or walking them without a muzzle. SG said it wasn't necessary and people started sending the abandoned dogs up here, as predicted, and they are now panicking and looking at their own legislation.

It's not a big deal in the grand scheme, but just so stupid and predictable.

Yeah dogs being dumped or rehomed without any precautions. Isn't a big deal until someone gets needlessly mauled. Scots will be left having to pay for the precautions needed to keep the dogs or pay for them to be destroyed.

[Tichtheid]

I don't really know where I am on the XL Bully thing. First I'd say that these dogs are capable of killing pretty much any human, there is no need to have such a dog.

On the other hand I can see the point the websites of both the SSPCA and the RSPCA that banning breeds doesn't work, it's been 30 years since the dangerous dog act and people are still being mauled to death by dogs. There will be other breeds that are mixed to get the brutal product the breeders are after, and it's these breeders who look for particular traits in the bloodlines. I'd seriously question why anyone would want a dog like the XL Bully - why won't a Gordon Setter do? A beautiful big dufus of a dog

I hate the politics of this and other issues, the public interest is seldom the ultimate goal - you have the Scottish Government saying there is no way Westminster should dictate devolved policy in Scotland and you have Westminster saying, if you'll excuse the phrase, taking up any good idea from Scotland would be the tail wagging the dog.

[Slick]

I don't really know where I am on the XL Bully thing. First I'd say that these dogs are capable of killing pretty much any human, there is no need to have such a dog.

On the other hand I can see the point the websites of both the SSPCA and the RSPCA that banning breeds doesn't work, it's been 30 years since the dangerous dog act and people are still being mauled to death by dogs. There will be other breeds that are mixed to get the brutal product the breeders are after, and it's these breeders who look for particular traits in the bloodlines. I'd seriously question why anyone would want a dog like the XL Bully - why won't a Gordon Setter do? A beautiful big dufus of a dog

I hate the politics of this and other issues, the public interest is seldom the ultimate goal - you have the Scottish Government saying there is no way Westminster should dictate devolved policy in Scotland and you have Westminster saying, if you'll excuse the phrase, taking up any good idea from Scotland would be the tail wagging the dog.

I think you can definitely argue that in many cases, but this particular one is just completely moronic. To knowingly create a loophole then blame the loophole is not great on any scale.

[Blackmac]

If you are going be dishonest in your quotes I’m going to pick you up on it.

There was nothing dishonest about the quote you lunatic. If you think that was dishonest I hope that you have written a strongly worded letter of complaint to just about every media outlet in the country, because like me, that is the headline they have been commenting on since. Maybe you have, I wouldn't be surprised.

What next, will you be wanting everyone to reference everything they say.

I can only think you must be great fun at the pub, boorishly objecting to everyone's comments because they are not up to your exacting standards. As I said before, this is an internet forum, the majority of chat on it is hardly accurate, just quick back and forward for a bit of light relief. It appears to be much more important to you. I'm sure if you look back on this thread there are dozens of similar comments.

I made the mistake of coming back on here after you made a deeply personal, inaccurate and unjustified attack a couple of years ago on this same thread and to be honest that was a mistake as I sadly seem to have found my own obsessed stalker, so I think that will be me for good.

It was a misrepresentation of what Yousaf said. Yeah, the Express, Telegraph, Mail etc all carried a similar headline to what you posted - quelle surprise! They misrepresented him too.

Is it really too much to ask that if you quote someone you quote what they actually said?

I didn't actually quote him in my post, just made a general comment about what he had been reported to have said by just about every media outlet. I did quote him in my second post, a quote which I copied directly out of the National's own article, so there has been no dishonest quoting.

As I said before I view this place much the same as I would view chatting to my mates down the pub. You seem to view it as some sort of Oxford debating chamber where you constantly seem intent on proving your superior intellect, however your tactic is to pick at the minutiae of anyone's post ad nauseam and seem to take a particular delight in targeting me. It's frankly fucking boring. I'm just a thick ex-cop, I'm not trying to prove anything, just enjoy a blether with mainly like minded individuals. I would imagine if I met you in a pub I would make my excuses after 5 minutes.

[Biffer]

I don't really know where I am on the XL Bully thing. First I'd say that these dogs are capable of killing pretty much any human, there is no need to have such a dog.

On the other hand I can see the point the websites of both the SSPCA and the RSPCA that banning breeds doesn't work, it's been 30 years since the dangerous dog act and people are still being mauled to death by dogs. There will be other breeds that are mixed to get the brutal product the breeders are after, and it's these breeders who look for particular traits in the bloodlines. I'd seriously question why anyone would want a dog like the XL Bully - why won't a Gordon Setter do? A beautiful big dufus of a dog

I hate the politics of this and other issues, the public interest is seldom the ultimate goal - you have the Scottish Government saying there is no way Westminster should dictate devolved policy in Scotland and you have Westminster saying, if you'll excuse the phrase, taking up any good idea from Scotland would be the tail wagging the dog.

Switch XL Bully / dog for gun.

Then compare to the anti gun lobby in the US - there's no such thing as a bad gun, just a bad owner.

Slightly fatuous, I know, but worth thinking about.




(Although 'tail wagging the gun' at the end there won't make a lot of sense)

[Tichtheid]

There was nothing dishonest about the quote you lunatic. If you think that was dishonest I hope that you have written a strongly worded letter of complaint to just about every media outlet in the country, because like me, that is the headline they have been commenting on since. Maybe you have, I wouldn't be surprised.

What next, will you be wanting everyone to reference everything they say.

I can only think you must be great fun at the pub, boorishly objecting to everyone's comments because they are not up to your exacting standards. As I said before, this is an internet forum, the majority of chat on it is hardly accurate, just quick back and forward for a bit of light relief. It appears to be much more important to you. I'm sure if you look back on this thread there are dozens of similar comments.

I made the mistake of coming back on here after you made a deeply personal, inaccurate and unjustified attack a couple of years ago on this same thread and to be honest that was a mistake as I sadly seem to have found my own obsessed stalker, so I think that will be me for good.

It was a misrepresentation of what Yousaf said. Yeah, the Express, Telegraph, Mail etc all carried a similar headline to what you posted - quelle surprise! They misrepresented him too.

Is it really too much to ask that if you quote someone you quote what they actually said?

I didn't actually quote him in my post, just made a general comment about what he had been reported to have said by just about every media outlet. I did quote him in my second post, a quote which I copied directly out of the National's own article, so there has been no dishonest quoting.

Humza's claim that independence would leave each household £10200 better off per annum was just fantasy and shows he is just not a serious politician.

That reads to me like you are attributing that statement directly to Humza, it wasn't what he said, which is where I came in.

As I said before I view this place much the same as I would view chatting to my mates down the pub.

I'm afraid I don't believe that, if it was true you'd shrug my initial answer off with a "yeah okay, it was the media take on it, it didn't come from Yousaf himself, let's move on"

You seem to view it as some sort of Oxford debating chamber where you constantly seem intent on proving your superior intellect, however your tactic is to pick at the minutiae of anyone's post ad nauseam and seem to take a particular delight in targeting me. It's frankly fucking boring. I'm just a thick ex-cop, I'm not trying to prove anything, just enjoy a blether with mainly like minded individuals. I would imagine if I met you in a pub I would make my excuses after 5 minutes.

The idea that I take particular delight in targeting you is rather narcissistic. I don't give a monkey's beyond proper attribution and looking at the sources of information. There is a difference between fun threads and political ones, imo.

[Paddington Bear]

I don't really know where I am on the XL Bully thing. First I'd say that these dogs are capable of killing pretty much any human, there is no need to have such a dog.

On the other hand I can see the point the websites of both the SSPCA and the RSPCA that banning breeds doesn't work, it's been 30 years since the dangerous dog act and people are still being mauled to death by dogs. There will be other breeds that are mixed to get the brutal product the breeders are after, and it's these breeders who look for particular traits in the bloodlines. I'd seriously question why anyone would want a dog like the XL Bully - why won't a Gordon Setter do? A beautiful big dufus of a dog

I hate the politics of this and other issues, the public interest is seldom the ultimate goal - you have the Scottish Government saying there is no way Westminster should dictate devolved policy in Scotland and you have Westminster saying, if you'll excuse the phrase, taking up any good idea from Scotland would be the tail wagging the dog.

Come on, there are dogs and dogs, and the Scottish government have massively cocked up here with utterly predictable consequences.

XL bullies are aggressive and are so powerful that there’s a very good chance they’ll maim/kill their target, even fully grown men. Breeds matter as well as owners.

[Tichtheid]

I don't really know where I am on the XL Bully thing. First I'd say that these dogs are capable of killing pretty much any human, there is no need to have such a dog.

On the other hand I can see the point the websites of both the SSPCA and the RSPCA that banning breeds doesn't work, it's been 30 years since the dangerous dog act and people are still being mauled to death by dogs. There will be other breeds that are mixed to get the brutal product the breeders are after, and it's these breeders who look for particular traits in the bloodlines. I'd seriously question why anyone would want a dog like the XL Bully - why won't a Gordon Setter do? A beautiful big dufus of a dog

I hate the politics of this and other issues, the public interest is seldom the ultimate goal - you have the Scottish Government saying there is no way Westminster should dictate devolved policy in Scotland and you have Westminster saying, if you'll excuse the phrase, taking up any good idea from Scotland would be the tail wagging the dog.

Come on, there are dogs and dogs, and the Scottish government have massively cocked up here with utterly predictable consequences.

XL bullies are aggressive and are so powerful that there’s a very good chance they’ll maim/kill their target, even fully grown men. Breeds matter as well as owners.

Yep, I totally agree with the statement that breeds matter - I did say that these dogs can kill most humans. How do you stop the breeders? There are four dog breeds on the banned list iirc and as I said they've been banned for 30 years, but deaths and terrible injuries still occur.

Do we ban dogs over a certain weight? I'm not trying to be facetious here, I would generally accept that for the greater good anything heavier than Cocker Spaniel shouldn't be kept as a pet. I'm just not sure that would go do too well across the board.

[Tichtheid]

WTAF

I've been reading couple of articles on the dog thing and this rather leapt off the page

XL bully owner Lauren Ballantyne, from Fife, said responsible owners shouldn't have an issue complying with the replicated regulations.

The mum-of-two, who has a 21-week-old pup called Soprano, told Sky News: "If you had the money to buy the dog in the first place, you should be sticking by your dog.

"And if it takes for you to have to neuter it, muzzle it and microchip it, if you are a responsible owner that's what you should be doing.

"You should be standing by your dog, not giving it away or rehoming it. It's as simple as that."

Ms Ballantyne, who is attempting to get over a fear of dogs, said Soprano will begin muzzle training this weekend.

I think she's jumped in at the deep end there

[Paddington Bear]

I don't really know where I am on the XL Bully thing. First I'd say that these dogs are capable of killing pretty much any human, there is no need to have such a dog.

On the other hand I can see the point the websites of both the SSPCA and the RSPCA that banning breeds doesn't work, it's been 30 years since the dangerous dog act and people are still being mauled to death by dogs. There will be other breeds that are mixed to get the brutal product the breeders are after, and it's these breeders who look for particular traits in the bloodlines. I'd seriously question why anyone would want a dog like the XL Bully - why won't a Gordon Setter do? A beautiful big dufus of a dog

I hate the politics of this and other issues, the public interest is seldom the ultimate goal - you have the Scottish Government saying there is no way Westminster should dictate devolved policy in Scotland and you have Westminster saying, if you'll excuse the phrase, taking up any good idea from Scotland would be the tail wagging the dog.

Come on, there are dogs and dogs, and the Scottish government have massively cocked up here with utterly predictable consequences.

XL bullies are aggressive and are so powerful that there’s a very good chance they’ll maim/kill their target, even fully grown men. Breeds matter as well as owners.

Yep, I totally agree with the statement that breeds matter - I did say that these dogs can kill most humans. How do you stop the breeders? There are four dog breeds on the banned list iirc and as I said they've been banned for 30 years, but deaths and terrible injuries still occur.

Do we ban dogs over a certain weight? I'm not trying to be facetious here, I would generally accept that for the greater good anything heavier than Cocker Spaniel shouldn't be kept as a pet. I'm just not sure that would go do too well across the board.

Sure, nothing creates 100% certainty. With that said, there are far more XL Bullies out there than any of the illegal dogs. Also, should I see an illegal dog out walking, I can call the police and it’ll be destroyed. I came across a couple of XL bullies last year and just had to turn around fairly sharpish instead. If a dog is illegal chances are you’re not taking it to the park etc, making it far less of a threat to the general public. Someone may well still keep a Bully, but now it’s far more likely to only harm its owners.

The breeders exist because there’s a good market. A dog that can’t leave the house is one with far less (though not zero) market.

[Tichtheid]

Sure, nothing creates 100% certainty. With that said, there are far more XL Bullies out there than any of the illegal dogs. Also, should I see an illegal dog out walking, I can call the police and it’ll be destroyed. I came across a couple of XL bullies last year and just had to turn around fairly sharpish instead. If a dog is illegal chances are you’re not taking it to the park etc, making it far less of a threat to the general public. Someone may well still keep a Bully, but now it’s far more likely to only harm its owners.

The breeders exist because there’s a good market. A dog that can’t leave the house is one with far less (though not zero) market.

I accept everything you're saying on this, but the point made on the SSPCA site was the breeders will just move on and they will always be one step ahead of the law because the law is reactive rather than proactive - there is no ban on a Rottweiler/ German Shepherd Dog cross, for example.

[Blackmac]

It was a misrepresentation of what Yousaf said. Yeah, the Express, Telegraph, Mail etc all carried a similar headline to what you posted - quelle surprise! They misrepresented him too.

Is it really too much to ask that if you quote someone you quote what they actually said?

I didn't actually quote him in my post, just made a general comment about what he had been reported to have said by just about every media outlet. I did quote him in my second post, a quote which I copied directly out of the National's own article, so there has been no dishonest quoting.

Humza's claim that independence would leave each household £10200 better off per annum was just fantasy and shows he is just not a serious politician.

That reads to me like you are attributing that statement directly to Humza, it wasn't what he said, which is where I came in.

As I said before I view this place much the same as I would view chatting to my mates down the pub.

I'm afraid I don't believe that, if it was true you'd shrug my initial answer off with a "yeah okay, it was the media take on it, it didn't come from Yousaf himself, let's move on"

You seem to view it as some sort of Oxford debating chamber where you constantly seem intent on proving your superior intellect, however your tactic is to pick at the minutiae of anyone's post ad nauseam and seem to take a particular delight in targeting me. It's frankly fucking boring. I'm just a thick ex-cop, I'm not trying to prove anything, just enjoy a blether with mainly like minded individuals. I would imagine if I met you in a pub I would make my excuses after 5 minutes.

The idea that I take particular delight in targeting you is rather narcissistic. I don't give a monkey's beyond proper attribution and looking at the sources of information. There is a difference between fun threads and political ones, imo.

Fun threads and serious threads. FFS.

[fishfoodie]

Sure, nothing creates 100% certainty. With that said, there are far more XL Bullies out there than any of the illegal dogs. Also, should I see an illegal dog out walking, I can call the police and it’ll be destroyed. I came across a couple of XL bullies last year and just had to turn around fairly sharpish instead. If a dog is illegal chances are you’re not taking it to the park etc, making it far less of a threat to the general public. Someone may well still keep a Bully, but now it’s far more likely to only harm its owners.

The breeders exist because there’s a good market. A dog that can’t leave the house is one with far less (though not zero) market.

Yes & No. You'll have less of a market with the good dog owners, who aren't going to raise a killer anyway, but you won't hurt the pricks who plan on using the dog as a weapon a bit.

The American Pitbull was a favorite of drug dealers, who used to just lock them inside the entrances to where they were dealing, because while the cops in any raid were trying to get past the dogs they were busily flushing the drugs down the toilet.The dog gave them a few precious minutes.

[Tichtheid]

Fun threads and serious threads. FFS.

Those were not my exact words.

However, you must be one of the very few who perhaps thinks there is no difference between, for example, threads on favourite Led Zeppelin songs and taking about what is going on in Gazza

[Blackmac]

Fun threads and serious threads. FFS.

Those were not my exact words.

However, you must be one of the very few who perhaps thinks there is no difference between, for example, threads on favourite Led Zeppelin songs and taking about what is going on in Gazza

It's the whole premise of the place that you seem to struggle with. It's an anonymous internet forum for Christ sake. We sign up with silly names and the place is full of trolls and wind up merchants who can say what they want, how they want, when they want, within very loose boundaries without any repercussions. It's not the place to demand the level of accuracy in every single comment that you seem to require. Obviously some threads have more serious topics than others but they are no more immune than others to the bollocks. I tend to avoid contentious threads as they aren't worth the grief, sadly this will now be one of them.
All I can say is thank god lads like YMX of Refry aren't Scottish or you would be driven bloody insane.

[Tichtheid]

Fun threads and serious threads. FFS.

Those were not my exact words.

However, you must be one of the very few who perhaps thinks there is no difference between, for example, threads on favourite Led Zeppelin songs and taking about what is going on in Gazza

It's the whole premise of the place that you seem to struggle with. It's an anonymous internet forum for Christ sake. We sign up with silly names and the place is full of trolls and wind up merchants who can say what they want, how they want, when they want, within very loose boundaries without any repercussions. It's not the place to demand the level of accuracy in every single comment that you seem to require. Obviously some threads have more serious topics than others but they are no more immune than others to the bollocks. I tend to avoid contentious threads as they aren't worth the grief, sadly this will now be one of them.
All I can say is thank god lads like YMX of Refry aren't Scottish or you would be driven bloody insane.

I didn't actually demand that much of you, just the full quote from Yousaf, which was very different from what you claimed. I don't think I'm the one struggling here.

I'll say again, this rancour would have been avoided had you been big enough to just say, "fair enough, the real quote wasn't how it was portrayed in the press and it differed from what he actually said"

YMX is still sore with me asking for proper for attribution and sources on the Gazza thread.

[Blackmac]

Those were not my exact words.

However, you must be one of the very few who perhaps thinks there is no difference between, for example, threads on favourite Led Zeppelin songs and taking about what is going on in Gazza

It's the whole premise of the place that you seem to struggle with. It's an anonymous internet forum for Christ sake. We sign up with silly names and the place is full of trolls and wind up merchants who can say what they want, how they want, when they want, within very loose boundaries without any repercussions. It's not the place to demand the level of accuracy in every single comment that you seem to require. Obviously some threads have more serious topics than others but they are no more immune than others to the bollocks. I tend to avoid contentious threads as they aren't worth the grief, sadly this will now be one of them.
All I can say is thank god lads like YMX of Refry aren't Scottish or you would be driven bloody insane.

I didn't actually demand that much of you, just the full quote from Yousaf, which was very different from what you claimed. I don't think I'm the one struggling here.

I'll say again, this rancour would have been avoided had you been big enough to just say, "fair enough, the real quote wasn't how it was portrayed in the press and it differed from what he actually said"

YMX is still sore with me asking for proper for attribution and sources on the Gazza thread.

Jesus.

Okay you win at the internet. Enjoy yourself.

[Tichtheid]

It's the whole premise of the place that you seem to struggle with. It's an anonymous internet forum for Christ sake. We sign up with silly names and the place is full of trolls and wind up merchants who can say what they want, how they want, when they want, within very loose boundaries without any repercussions. It's not the place to demand the level of accuracy in every single comment that you seem to require. Obviously some threads have more serious topics than others but they are no more immune than others to the bollocks. I tend to avoid contentious threads as they aren't worth the grief, sadly this will now be one of them.
All I can say is thank god lads like YMX of Refry aren't Scottish or you would be driven bloody insane.

I didn't actually demand that much of you, just the full quote from Yousaf, which was very different from what you claimed. I don't think I'm the one struggling here.

I'll say again, this rancour would have been avoided had you been big enough to just say, "fair enough, the real quote wasn't how it was portrayed in the press and it differed from what he actually said"

YMX is still sore with me asking for proper for attribution and sources on the Gazza thread.

Jesus.

Okay you win at the internet. Enjoy yourself.

Thank you, I will.

[vball]

I keep getting my posts in the Gruinad newspaper site ... removed by admin as they are against their "rules". Today I posted about the miners strike and how I had crossed the picket lines. As a 19 year old I had gone to London to find work and got a job at a local council pushing papers about. When going through the picket lines I was called scab,etc .... I turned round and faced up to them. None of them would say it to my ugly face.
And the mods thought this was not suitable content.

So posting here seems a lot more lax and if people get a little shirty, so be it.

[Big D]

Not his fault obviously but not a good look for the FM, a man who isn't shy about politicising his family, when his brother in law is arrested on drug offences.

[Blackmac]

Not his fault obviously but not a good look for the FM, a man who isn't shy about politicising his family, when his brother in law is arrested on drug offences.

Arrested again 24 hours after being released on bail for drug dealing offences, after a male was seriously injured "falling" from a window in Dundee.