The Scottish Politics Thread

[inactionman]

Sturgeon just saying what the entire country was thinking. And she's not particularly duty-bound to be diplomatic in private messages.

Nicola Sturgeon regarded Boris Johnson as 'a fucking clown' because of his handling of Covid, inquiry learns
Nicola Sturgeon called Boris Johnson “a fucking clown” in a private message when he announced a further Covid lockdown on 31 October 2020, the inquiry has heard.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... nife-crime

[Biffer]

Sturgeon just saying what the entire country was thinking. And she's not particularly duty-bound to be diplomatic in private messages.

Nicola Sturgeon regarded Boris Johnson as 'a fucking clown' because of his handling of Covid, inquiry learns
Nicola Sturgeon called Boris Johnson “a fucking clown” in a private message when he announced a further Covid lockdown on 31 October 2020, the inquiry has heard.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... nife-crime

About time someone put it on the record in this inquiry

[Big D]

She's not wrong about Johnson. Broken clocks and all that.

[Slick]

Sturgeon just saying what the entire country was thinking. And she's not particularly duty-bound to be diplomatic in private messages.

Nicola Sturgeon regarded Boris Johnson as 'a fucking clown' because of his handling of Covid, inquiry learns
Nicola Sturgeon called Boris Johnson “a fucking clown” in a private message when he announced a further Covid lockdown on 31 October 2020, the inquiry has heard.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... nife-crime

I liked how the BBC reported it at lunchtime, breathlessly reporting on foul language and rudeness. Two problems:

a) Swearing is a national pastime
b) It's Boris, nae cunt gives a fuck

[Blackmac]

Sturgeon just saying what the entire country was thinking. And she's not particularly duty-bound to be diplomatic in private messages.

Nicola Sturgeon regarded Boris Johnson as 'a fucking clown' because of his handling of Covid, inquiry learns
Nicola Sturgeon called Boris Johnson “a fucking clown” in a private message when he announced a further Covid lockdown on 31 October 2020, the inquiry has heard.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... nife-crime

I liked how the BBC reported it at lunchtime, breathlessly reporting on foul language and rudeness. Two problems:

a) Swearing is a national pastime
b) It's Boris, nae cunt gives a fuck

It's going to be brilliant watching Nicola backing up her claim that she did not use WhatsApp to discuss Covid decisions when the last couple of days have undoubtedly proved that she did.

[Slick]

Sturgeon just saying what the entire country was thinking. And she's not particularly duty-bound to be diplomatic in private messages.



https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... nife-crime

I liked how the BBC reported it at lunchtime, breathlessly reporting on foul language and rudeness. Two problems:

a) Swearing is a national pastime
b) It's Boris, nae cunt gives a fuck

It's going to be brilliant watching Nicola backing up her claim that she did not use WhatsApp to discuss Covid decisions when the last couple of days have undoubtedly proved that she did.

Did you see the end of Humzas questioning? Hilarious

[Blackmac]

So Sturgeon basically made all the Covid decisions without a cabinet vote. One being to close schools against expert advice and cabinet consensus. Any dissenters in the cabinet were expected to resign. Her Finance Secretary, one of the most senior politicians in the country, wasn't invited to Gold command meetings and didn't actually know they existed. The same Finance Secretary had no knowledge of any government directive to delete WhatsApp messages and can't understand why there would be one. The Health Secretary, at a time of a global health emergency, was able to find £100 million surplus in the health budget. The most senior epidemiologist in the country believes he wasn't asked for advice because he was a unionist. After the expert criminologist praised the police's response in Scotland because it was less heavy handed, we found out that Humza called the SPF, who drove that response, as a fucking disgrace. Oh, and Sturgeon and Freeman purchased a number of cheap burner phones and unregistered SIM cards at the start of Lockdown and claimed them on their expenses, suggesting they were for government purposes.
Anyone still want to make a case to defend these charlatans.

[Slick]

So Sturgeon basically made all the Covid decisions without a cabinet vote. One being to close schools against expert advice and cabinet consensus. Any dissenters in the cabinet were expected to resign. Her Finance Secretary, one of the most senior politicians in the country, wasn't invited to Gold command meetings and didn't actually know they existed. The same Finance Secretary had no knowledge of any government directive to delete WhatsApp messages and can't understand why there would be one. The Health Secretary, at a time of a global health emergency, was able to find £100 million surplus in the health budget. The most senior epidemiologist in the country believes he wasn't asked for advice because he was a unionist. After the expert criminologist praised the police's response in Scotland because it was less heavy handed, we found out that Humza called the SPF, who drove that response, as a fucking disgrace. Oh, and Sturgeon and Freeman purchased a number of cheap burner phones and unregistered SIM cards at the start of Lockdown and claimed them on their expenses, suggesting they were for government purposes.
Anyone still want to make a case to defend these charlatans.

I was expecting all this process to be a bit uncomfortable for Sturgeon and SG with the halo slipping slightly, but this is turning into an absolute national scandal.

It's just the cavalier attitude to everything, as if it was local scout group, from a government that have their hands on £billions of budget and are making life changing decisions for all of us. I know this is focussing on covid, but you have to think everything is run like this which explains why everything is in such a mess. They are a scourge and she is an utter charlatan

[Blackmac]

Sticks to claim she did not use informal messaging to make government decisions.

Shown WhatsApp messages discussing government business.

[Blackmac]

So Sturgeon basically made all the Covid decisions without a cabinet vote. One being to close schools against expert advice and cabinet consensus. Any dissenters in the cabinet were expected to resign. Her Finance Secretary, one of the most senior politicians in the country, wasn't invited to Gold command meetings and didn't actually know they existed. The same Finance Secretary had no knowledge of any government directive to delete WhatsApp messages and can't understand why there would be one. The Health Secretary, at a time of a global health emergency, was able to find £100 million surplus in the health budget. The most senior epidemiologist in the country believes he wasn't asked for advice because he was a unionist. After the expert criminologist praised the police's response in Scotland because it was less heavy handed, we found out that Humza called the SPF, who drove that response, as a fucking disgrace. Oh, and Sturgeon and Freeman purchased a number of cheap burner phones and unregistered SIM cards at the start of Lockdown and claimed them on their expenses, suggesting they were for government purposes.
Anyone still want to make a case to defend these charlatans.

I was expecting all this process to be a bit uncomfortable for Sturgeon and SG with the halo slipping slightly, but this is turning into an absolute national scandal.

It's just the cavalier attitude to everything, as if it was local scout group, from a government that have their hands on £billions of budget and are making life changing decisions for all of us. I know this is focussing on covid, but you have to think everything is run like this which explains why everything is in such a mess. They are a scourge and she is an utter charlatan

The ferry fiasco being a case in point, although I think they eventually pinned that one on the disgraced sex pest.

[Blackmac]

"I deny that, but I know you will show me lots of documents later that will suggest otherwise"

[Big D]

I do feel sorry for her, and Bawheid in Westminster up to a point. Being a leader at an unprecedented time is immensely difficult. That is where me feeling sorry for them begins and ends.

Johnson ultimately was a disgrace and we are finding out that despite their claims otherwise, the SG weren't up to much either. There might not have been PPE corruption but that doesn't absolve the SG from a shoeing if needed. "Aye but Westminster was worse" isn't a defence and a competent Labour party should be trouncing both.

The Humza finding £100m story is wild.

[Blackmac]

I see Sturgeon has arrived at the Covid inquiry in a car that has no insurance and MOT. You could not make this shit up.

[Blackmac]

I do feel sorry for her, and Bawheid in Westminster up to a point. Being a leader at an unprecedented time is immensely difficult. That is where me feeling sorry for them begins and ends.

Johnson ultimately was a disgrace and we are finding out that despite their claims otherwise, the SG weren't up to much either. There might not have been PPE corruption but that doesn't absolve the SG from a shoeing if needed. "Aye but Westminster was worse" isn't a defence and a competent Labour party should be trouncing both.

The Humza finding £100m story is wild.

I'm actually the same, for just about all politicians who had to deal with an unprecedented situation. You can bet opposition parties were thanking fuck it wasn't them, however the level of arrogance and disregard that were are now seeing is astonishing and what makes it worse is that Sturgeon and her cult were so bloody self righteous about it.

[Blackmac]

Sturgeon "you can see these views in the cabinet minutes"
Dawson "you actually can't see any of those views in the cabinet minutes"
Sturgeon "possibly not"
Dawson "factually not"

He is a real old school, composed assassin.

[Big D]

Sturgeon "you can see these views in the cabinet minutes"
Dawson "you actually can't see any of those views in the cabinet minutes"
Sturgeon "possibly not"
Dawson "factually not"

He is a real old school, composed assassin.

He has found away to get politicians of both rosette colours to actually answer questions. That alone deserves an award of some sort.

[tc27]

Christ I hope Jamie Dawson KC is ready for the bile thats about to be unleashed upon him...born in Edinburgh so probaly already a traitor is some eyes.

[Blackmac]

Sturgeon "you can see these views in the cabinet minutes"
Dawson "you actually can't see any of those views in the cabinet minutes"
Sturgeon "possibly not"
Dawson "factually not"

He is a real old school, composed assassin.

He has found away to get politicians of both rosette colours to actually answer questions. That alone deserves an award of some sort.

He has just destroyed her over the Gold Command meetings and the Kate Forbes situation. It's absolutely car crash viewing watching her trying to downplay the significance of the meetings, downright lying and prevaricating about why Forbes wasn't involved.

[Slick]

I liked when she tried to change “deleted” to “did not retain” and he reduced her to a gibbering mess

FYIW, also agree with the above that this was an unprecedented situation with incredible pressure so I do have a large degree of sympathy. But this stuff is obviously wrong and they obviously knew this and decided, well after the event, to lie and deceive

[Blackmac]

Spends the first half of the day constantly deflecting that all relevant decision making would be accurately recorded in the cabinet minutes. Now stammering her way through why many crucial decisions are not minuted anywhere in cabinet minutes.

[Blackmac]

Sturgeon "you can see these views in the cabinet minutes"
Dawson "you actually can't see any of those views in the cabinet minutes"
Sturgeon "possibly not"
Dawson "factually not"

He is a real old school, composed assassin.

He has found away to get politicians of both rosette colours to actually answer questions. That alone deserves an award of some sort.

I've spent many a day, in fact once a whole week, jousting with advocates of varying standards in court. I always found it quite enjoyable but you rarely came out feeling you got a win and pretty battered and bruised. This guy is special, the style, composure and patience is so impressive. People are getting their trousers pulled down and spanked in the subtlest of ways.

[vball]

Are there transcripts of this ?

[Blackmac]

I see Aamer Anwar has just accused them of deleting messages because of Operation Branchform. That's a hefty move.
He was a disgraceful appointment in the first place but he has clearly seen the writing on the wall and is turning on his SNP pals.

[Paddington Bear]

Sturgeon "you can see these views in the cabinet minutes"
Dawson "you actually can't see any of those views in the cabinet minutes"
Sturgeon "possibly not"
Dawson "factually not"

He is a real old school, composed assassin.

He has found away to get politicians of both rosette colours to actually answer questions. That alone deserves an award of some sort.

I've spent many a day, in fact once a whole week, jousting with advocates of varying standards in court. I always found it quite enjoyable but you rarely came out feeling you got a win and pretty battered and bruised. This guy is special, the style, composure and patience is so impressive. People are getting their trousers pulled down and spanked in the subtlest of ways.

There’s a real, real art to cross examination. Most I come across are bruisers which works to an extent, but by far the best slice people open whilst having the tone and pace of someone remarking on the weather. Jason Beer at the Post Office enquiry is great for this.

[Blackmac]

He has found away to get politicians of both rosette colours to actually answer questions. That alone deserves an award of some sort.

I've spent many a day, in fact once a whole week, jousting with advocates of varying standards in court. I always found it quite enjoyable but you rarely came out feeling you got a win and pretty battered and bruised. This guy is special, the style, composure and patience is so impressive. People are getting their trousers pulled down and spanked in the subtlest of ways.

There’s a real, real art to cross examination. Most I come across are bruisers which works to an extent, but by far the best slice people open whilst having the tone and pace of someone remarking on the weather. Jason Beer at the Post Office enquiry is great for this.

Yeah, many are just arrogant bullies who almost portray a contempt for the witnesses they are examining. Donald Findlay is a perfect example who has no understanding that his behaviour actually alienates juries.

[SaintK]

Are there transcripts of this ?

Beeb following it live all day
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-s ... -68146957

[Biffer]

I see Aamer Anwar has just accused them of deleting messages because of Operation Branchform. That's a hefty move.
He was a disgraceful appointment in the first place but he has clearly seen the writing on the wall and is turning on his SNP pals.

Aamer Anwar was never SNP. Take it from someone who had run ins with him at university in Glasgow.

[Blackmac]

I see Aamer Anwar has just accused them of deleting messages because of Operation Branchform. That's a hefty move.
He was a disgraceful appointment in the first place but he has clearly seen the writing on the wall and is turning on his SNP pals.

Aamer Anwar was never SNP. Take it from someone who had run ins with him at university in Glasgow.

I'm afraid the laugh is on you mate. On his own website he says he joined the SNP in 2015 to support the cause of Independence and when he was offered a candidacy to run as an SNP MP which he eventually declined.

He is a well known and very close associate of Murrell, Sturgeon and Yousaf. It's probably a bandwagon he couldn't resist jumping on.

[Blackmac]

https://x.com/aameranwar/status/596464731977809920?s=46

[Biffer]

I see Aamer Anwar has just accused them of deleting messages because of Operation Branchform. That's a hefty move.
He was a disgraceful appointment in the first place but he has clearly seen the writing on the wall and is turning on his SNP pals.

Aamer Anwar was never SNP. Take it from someone who had run ins with him at university in Glasgow.

I'm afraid the laugh is on you mate. On his own website he says he joined the SNP in 2015 to support the cause of Independence and when he was offered a candidacy to run as an SNP MP which he eventually declined.

He is a well known and very close associate of Murrell, Sturgeon and Yousaf. It's probably a bandwagon he couldn't resist jumping on.

Well, that's news to me! He and Sturgeon were very much not on the same page when they were at Glasgow Uni, from what I remember.!

[Blackmac]

Aamer Anwar was never SNP. Take it from someone who had run ins with him at university in Glasgow.

I'm afraid the laugh is on you mate. On his own website he says he joined the SNP in 2015 to support the cause of Independence and when he was offered a candidacy to run as an SNP MP which he eventually declined.

He is a well known and very close associate of Murrell, Sturgeon and Yousaf. It's probably a bandwagon he couldn't resist jumping on.

Well, that's news to me! He and Sturgeon were very much not on the same page when they were at Glasgow Uni, from what I remember.!

As I said, passing bandwagon. I actually dealt with him a couple of times and found him a far more likeable individual and far more agreeable than his public persona suggests. I remember setting myself up for a right barney with him and being incredibly surprised by how accommodating he was.
It's quite clear he sees the wheels coming off that bandwagon now and is looking for the exit.

[Biffer]

So Tories and SNP both have the same line - deleted them all, no government business done on WhatsApp, according to Alister Jack. What a shower we have

[Blackmac]

So Tories and SNP both have the same line - deleted them all, no government business done on WhatsApp, according to Alister Jack. What a shower we have

It's depressing. Total contempt for the people they are meant to serve.

[Tichtheid]

I'd be surprised if digital forensics can't be used to retrieve deleted WhatsApp messages.

Anyway, as much as I'd like to lambast those in government for deleting messages, or those in opposition for that matter, I can actually see the point about security on phones and laptops - of course I don't believe that is why they were deleted, but I think they should be scrubbed because a phone can be hacked or stolen or lost.

[Slick]

So Tories and SNP both have the same line - deleted them all, no government business done on WhatsApp, according to Alister Jack. What a shower we have

Jack is an absolute twat of a man. He’s also a liar as I’ve been in a meeting when another member of government received a WhatsApp message from him discussing policy

[inactionman]

I'd be surprised if digital forensics can't be used to retrieve deleted WhatsApp messages.

Anyway, as much as I'd like to lambast those in government for deleting messages, or those in opposition for that matter, I can actually see the point about security on phones and laptops - of course I don't believe that is why they were deleted, but I think they should be scrubbed because a phone can be hacked or stolen or lost.

They shouldn't use whatsapp.

It started life as a way for people to send edgy pictures and messages to mates and not be busted. It seems to have been deployed in government in exactly that same way.

[Blackmac]

I'd be surprised if digital forensics can't be used to retrieve deleted WhatsApp messages.

Anyway, as much as I'd like to lambast those in government for deleting messages, or those in opposition for that matter, I can actually see the point about security on phones and laptops - of course I don't believe that is why they were deleted, but I think they should be scrubbed because a phone can be hacked or stolen or lost.

When I retired it couldn't be done and there was no expectation that that was going to ever change. It's got incredibly sophisticated encryption.

[Blackmac]

I'd be surprised if digital forensics can't be used to retrieve deleted WhatsApp messages.

Anyway, as much as I'd like to lambast those in government for deleting messages, or those in opposition for that matter, I can actually see the point about security on phones and laptops - of course I don't believe that is why they were deleted, but I think they should be scrubbed because a phone can be hacked or stolen or lost.

They shouldn't use whatsapp.

It started life as a way for people to send edgy pictures and messages to mates and not be busted. It seems to have been deployed in government in exactly that same way.

What i've been astonished about is that so many of them seem to be using personal mobiles for official business. However that casts a bit of shade on Sturgeon's claim that the burner phones were used by staff who suddenly needed to work from home, which was a very weak excuse.

[Blackmac]

I see Salmond has stated that there was never a policy to delete messages and he was never aware of Sturgeon doing it. An old interview has emerged from 2019 where Sturgeon is reading archived Whatsapp message directly from her phone.

[Blackmac]

As to Jack's excuse that he deleted messages to free up space on his phone so he could carry on using it. The prick must be using a Nokia 6100.