Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Jockaline]

The situation in Gaza is clearly serious, but whilst this is the sort of thing that gets people in Westminster very hot under the collar, is a non issue for most in the country imo.

There are hundreds of domestic issues that matter more than this motion to the person in the street.

It is a waste of an opposition day considering the many domestic issues. Perhaps they should focus on those instead.

Shame on the people in the street then. What can be more important than humanity and our basic values.

[I like neeps]

Are standing orders in Parliament a part of the constitution?

Anyway its descended into absolute farce and everyone involved should be ashamed.

Having an opposition leader threaten the speaker is very much against convention, yes.

[petej]

The situation in Gaza is clearly serious, but whilst this is the sort of thing that gets people in Westminster very hot under the collar, is a non issue for most in the country imo.

There are hundreds of domestic issues that matter more than this motion to the person in the street.

It is a waste of an opposition day considering the many domestic issues. Perhaps they should focus on those instead.

Shame on the people in the street then. What can be more important than humanity and our basic values.

What basic values? Which ones are you picking? Neither side is an obvious good bad in that regard unlike Russia Ukraine which is far more straightforward. Regardless of the opposition party it is waste and there is a degree of delusion in it.

[Jockaline]

It is a waste of an opposition day considering the many domestic issues. Perhaps they should focus on those instead.

Shame on the people in the street then. What can be more important than humanity and our basic values.

What basic values? Which ones are you picking? Neither side is an obvious good bad in that regard unlike Russia Ukraine which is far more straightforward. Regardless of the opposition party it is waste and there is a degree of delusion in it.

On the side of innocents civilians, who never attacked anyone and would lives are being destroyed.

[Dogbert]

Lets not forget that the last time Labour were in power they involved the UK in what many people believe was an illegal war that cost the lives of many hundred of thousands of innocent civilians

The SNP grandstanded on that occasion as well by constantly opposing UK involvement .

[petej]

Lets not forget that the last time Labour were in power they involved the UK in what many people believe was an illegal war that cost the lives of many hundred of thousands of innocent civilians

The SNP grandstanded on that occasion as well by constantly opposing UK involvement .

As much as I think going into Iraq was a regrettable clusterfuck saddam hussein was distinctly shitty and quite capable of killing shitloads of his own people.

I'm broadly of the opinion that keeping the fuck out of this is the best option. There are way too many religious nutbars involved and shitty homophobic, sexist etc... autocratic regimes.

[SaintK]

The future of the Conservative party. God help them!!!

Liz Truss, the former British prime minister, spoke at a far-right conference in America on Wednesday, styling herself as a populist who took on America’s equivalent of the “deep state” in her own country.
Truss was among the headline speakers at this week’s Conservative Political Action Conference at the National Harbor in Maryland. CPAC is billed as the biggest annual gathering of conservatives in the US but has in recent years embraced Donald Trump’s brand of nativist-populism.
In Wednesday’s opening session, an “international summit”, the ex-PM sat side by side with Nigel Farage, former leader of the Brexit party, both with small union flags on the table in front of them.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2 ... ar-right

[Tichtheid]

The future of the Conservative party. God help them!!!

Liz Truss, the former British prime minister, spoke at a far-right conference in America on Wednesday, styling herself as a populist who took on America’s equivalent of the “deep state” in her own country.
Truss was among the headline speakers at this week’s Conservative Political Action Conference at the National Harbor in Maryland. CPAC is billed as the biggest annual gathering of conservatives in the US but has in recent years embraced Donald Trump’s brand of nativist-populism.
In Wednesday’s opening session, an “international summit”, the ex-PM sat side by side with Nigel Farage, former leader of the Brexit party, both with small union flags on the table in front of them.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2 ... ar-right

The Deep State thwarted her plans, that and the Civil Service is run by "trans activists and green extremists" (as per the Times) - err no Liz, the "free markets" that you are so in thrall to imploded when you held the reins for five minutes, that is what thwarted your plans.

[_Os_]

The future of the Conservative party. God help them!!!

The problem is it's an electoral system which produces two dominant parties, if one of those two parties decides to go insane then there's a chance they can get power even if they don't move towards the centre. Corbyn was widely seen as bad and came close to being PM.

The Tory right has gone full Trumpist and seems to control the Tory party. Both Truss and Rees-Mogg attack the judiciary/civil service/Bank of England/UN/ECHR/IMF, Rees-Mogg has also started on the WTO. If they ever get the chance they'll leave more international institutions without a plan and collapse more of the UK state. In the total mess that'll create, they will again claim their actions were inconsequential. The Tories have already had a quango bonfire, but Truss still blames quangos. Just axing the minor quango which audited councils has been a total disaster, Blair has become a devil like character to them but like a lot of this stuff it was established under Thatcher, Blair only expanded the remit of the quango which already existed.

They're not giving up or going away. Truss the freakshow character still exists in public life. Farage is becoming a regular at Tory events.

[inactionman]

50+ MPs have signed a motion of no confidence in the Speaker. The count is going up by the minute

https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/61908

All Tory and SNP, of course.

Not sure what will come of it all, I'm not aware of any mechanism for ousting a standing Speaker.

[dpedin]

The future of the Conservative party. God help them!!!

The problem is it's an electoral system which produces two dominant parties, if one of those two parties decides to go insane then there's a chance they can get power even if they don't move towards the centre. Corbyn was widely seen as bad and came close to being PM.

The Tory right has gone full Trumpist and seems to control the Tory party. Both Truss and Rees-Mogg attack the judiciary/civil service/Bank of England/UN/ECHR/IMF, Rees-Mogg has also started on the WTO. If they ever get the chance they'll leave more international institutions without a plan and collapse more of the UK state. In the total mess that'll create, they will again claim their actions were inconsequential. The Tories have already had a quango bonfire, but Truss still blames quangos. Just axing the minor quango which audited councils has been a total disaster, Blair has become a devil like character to them but like a lot of this stuff it was established under Thatcher, Blair only expanded the remit of the quango which already existed.

They're not giving up or going away. Truss the freakshow character still exists in public life. Farage is becoming a regular at Tory events.

Sorry to repeat all this but it was predicted years ago! The likes of JRM, Truss, Patel et al, including Sunak, all believe in the madcap writings in 'Britannia Unchained' and 'The Sovereign Individual'. They want to deliberately destroy the welfare state and regulation of our economy and environment, they see a world nirvana where the individual is supreme and the free markets and corporations will run the world. They call it the 4th stage of human society and are desperate for the UK to be in the vanguard. Inevitably there will be casualties in the transition to this 'nirvana' but they are mere collateral damage in the quest for free market domination - they are the weak, the poor, the uneducated, the infirm. The deliberate running down of all of the state run services ie NHS, social care, environment, etc and the privatization of the rest of the services ie rail, water, power, etc is a clear and deliberate strategy of the current right wing nutjobs. It is their ethos, their underlying belief and they see the 'welfare state' ie nanny state, socialism, etc as the biggest enemy to be defeated. Their big money right wing backers such as Peter Thiel, founder of PayPal, owner of Palantir which just won the big contact to 'manage' NHS data and who wrote the preface to 'The Sovereign Individual' and is very much a driving force behind these ideologies and sympathetic to the likes of Liz Truss and her anti-woke agenda!

[Hal Jordan]

Indeed, the same sort of money that's done for abortion, keeps gun laws running hog wild and allows the like of MTG to be able to do anything other than live in a double wide are well embedded in UK politics. We're not America, but don't ever think "it can't happen here".

[geordie_6]

The future of the Conservative party. God help them!!!

Liz Truss, the former British prime minister, spoke at a far-right conference in America on Wednesday, styling herself as a populist who took on America’s equivalent of the “deep state” in her own country.
Truss was among the headline speakers at this week’s Conservative Political Action Conference at the National Harbor in Maryland. CPAC is billed as the biggest annual gathering of conservatives in the US but has in recent years embraced Donald Trump’s brand of nativist-populism.
In Wednesday’s opening session, an “international summit”, the ex-PM sat side by side with Nigel Farage, former leader of the Brexit party, both with small union flags on the table in front of them.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2 ... ar-right

In order to be a populist, don't you need to be...popular?

[inactionman]

The future of the Conservative party. God help them!!!

Liz Truss, the former British prime minister, spoke at a far-right conference in America on Wednesday, styling herself as a populist who took on America’s equivalent of the “deep state” in her own country.
Truss was among the headline speakers at this week’s Conservative Political Action Conference at the National Harbor in Maryland. CPAC is billed as the biggest annual gathering of conservatives in the US but has in recent years embraced Donald Trump’s brand of nativist-populism.
In Wednesday’s opening session, an “international summit”, the ex-PM sat side by side with Nigel Farage, former leader of the Brexit party, both with small union flags on the table in front of them.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2 ... ar-right

In order to be a populist, don't you need to be...popular?

Well, you must reflect popular opinion, but your question still stands - I'm not sure crashing the economy was a particularly popular act.

[dpedin]

The future of the Conservative party. God help them!!!


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2 ... ar-right

In order to be a populist, don't you need to be...popular?

Well, you must reflect popular opinion, but your question still stands - I'm not sure crashing the economy was a particularly popular act.

I think the reality is you create mythical 'deep states' or 'enemies of the people' in your own country or on the borders, persuade enough people though dodgy funded advertising campaigns spewing out lies and more lies etc that these actually exist and pose a threat to normal people and then claim you are fighting them on behalf of the so called common people despite the fact you are not common, never mix with common people or indeed give a rats piss about common people. In fact you probably despise the common people and see them merely as foot soldiers in your quest for gaining power. The fact that these 'deep states' either don't exist in the way you describe them or if they do they certainly dont pose the threats you say they do doesn't really matter. The NHS, RNLI, National Trust, BBC and Gary Lineker are all apparently deep state threats and the woke enemies of the people now! According to JRM skimmed milk is the woke breast milk of socialism! This was the basis of naziism, Vote Leave and Trumpism and Lettuce Liz is following in their well worn footsteps. Mad as a bucket of frogs, indeed as mad as a skip full of fogs!

[_Os_]

The future of the Conservative party. God help them!!!


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2 ... ar-right

In order to be a populist, don't you need to be...popular?

Well, you must reflect popular opinion, but your question still stands - I'm not sure crashing the economy was a particularly popular act.

Popularism is more a mode of rhetoric, claiming to oppose the elite and being for ordinary people, than literally about being popular. When it stops being rhetoric and becomes what they believe, conspiracy theories flood in because it's the same way of thinking. The Tory right sees the tribal Tory vote is 20% and Reform is 15%, put together 35% is enough to be competitive in a GE. There's big holes in that but they think they're popular enough already, Rees-Mogg says it openly.

The big danger is what dpedin points out, they have a view of the world that's fleshed out with backers. Not convinced they understand much of it, Rees-Mogg claimed at Pop Con that conservativism was about the individual (not the community), the clue that libertarianism is an extreme form of liberalism is in the name. People who believe something without really understanding it aren't normal people, they're closer to fanatics or cult members, the kindest way of viewing them is as religious adherents. People like that cannot be reasoned with and never give up. Which is why the Tories will have to boot them all out.

[_Os_]

If someone came up with a plan to move the Tories off the centre ground of UK politics, where they have dominated UK politics for generations FPTP rewarding any party which dominates the centre, allowing Labour to take that vacant centre ground to become the new natural party of government with only brief interruptions by the Tories. The plan would look something like this. Brexit melted Tory brains it's now a headlong rush away from the centre and into a very niche far right corner.

[_Os_]

There's a strong chance the stuff Truss says here will become fairly mainstream among Tories. It's megaphoned by the Tory media already. They have to explain why Brexit is a failure, why many of them got everything they wanted with Truss and it was another failure, and why everything else they try fails (austerity, immigration control/Rwanda, levelling up, etc).

They're not going to throw their hands up and say they're to blame because they tried to do impossible shit. Their answer is far more likely to be "the state itself is to blame" and then "the state must be politicised". It's worth recalling what Truss did before watching this, she fired the most senior Treasury civil servant, she ignored the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) a quango setup by the Tories under George Osborne (famous lefty) as part of austerity (a famous lefty project), she ignored the Bank of England (again a famous tool of the left). She was PM and did what she wanted, no one could stop her. The result was market rejection, the UK acquiring a political risk premium, and losses for the UK in the tens or hundreds of billions (exact numbers are disputed). She ignored all the people she's now blaming, a Truss level of governance would become the norm in a politicised state, until the state basically ceased to exist.

[dpedin]

There's a strong chance the stuff Truss says here will become fairly mainstream among Tories. It's megaphoned by the Tory media already. They have to explain why Brexit is a failure, why many of them got everything they wanted with Truss and it was another failure, and why everything else they try fails (austerity, immigration control/Rwanda, levelling up, etc).

They're not going to throw their hands up and say they're to blame because they tried to do impossible shit. Their answer is far more likely to be "the state itself is to blame" and then "the state must be politicised". It's worth recalling what Truss did before watching this, she fired the most senior Treasury civil servant, she ignored the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) a quango setup by the Tories under George Osborne (famous lefty) as part of austerity (a famous lefty project), she ignored the Bank of England (again a famous tool of the left). She was PM and did what she wanted, no one could stop her. The result was market rejection, the UK acquiring a political risk premium, and losses for the UK in the tens or hundreds of billions (exact numbers are disputed). She ignored all the people she's now blaming, a Truss level of governance would become the norm in a politicised state, until the state basically ceased to exist.

There is a real and concerted attempt to create Trumpism in the UK. Big dark money is flowing in to support the right wing whackos - GB News, Tufton Street, etc from the venture capitalists and billionaires like Thiel. They are playing their cards very hard now in anticipation of the tories losing the next election and falling into an abyss. Their target is to complete the take over of the Tories, as they did with the Republican Party and create a full blooded right wing populist party ready to challenge Labour in 2029. Given the shit the Tories are leaving behind Labour will be hard pressed to make significant inroads into the investment needed to turn the UK around and this will create a ripe underbelly of dissatisfied racist Tory/Reform voters ready to done the blackshirts and follow the orders of the Daily Mail and Express. Farage is the obvious leader in waiting and will step in as the savior of 'true British values' aka fascism, to save the day and keep Britain shite .. sorry white! This is going to get very very messy indeed!

[I like neeps]

Unless a Labour government improve people's lives to the point extremism politics are ineffective.

You see increasingly extreme politics everywhere currently. Because people's lives are getting worse (in their minds) and increased inequality.

[tabascoboy]

Hmm, I thought it was lefty wokey trans-activists and anti Brexit doomsayers. Not sure how a Hindu PM and 14 years of Tory rule fits into this.

They can't even agree on which group to pick out for hate-mongering...which is ironic since that's all the Tories have right now in trying to desperately reach out for support

[Biffer]

Hmm, I thought it was lefty wokey trans-activists and anti Brexit doomsayers. Not sure how a Hindu PM and 14 years of Tory rule fits into this.

They can't even agree on which group to pick out for hate-mongering...which is ironic since that's all the Tories have right now in trying to desperately reach out for support

It's this fucking nonsense that they're trying to both be the elected government and pretend they're not in charge. It's four year old stuff - a big boy did it and ran away. Cunts.

[Hal Jordan]

I must say, these civil servants do have an interesting time balancing their trans activist Communism during the day job alongside planning a jihad at the weekends.

On a serious note, worrying times when proven failures such as Truss and Braverman realise their best chance to return to power is spouting utter garbage and blaming all our woes on The Other, but history has proven that it works. Time and time again.

[TB63]

[sockwithaticket]

It's easy to ridicule, but with enough dark money behind them and client press/media flooding the air with their talking points, these people become threats to the type of society most sensible people would like to see. I don't even mean the sort of socialist utopia people like me dream of, just one that isn't unfettered capitalism driving living standards into the dirt.


On the positive side of things the UK has, along with the likes of Spain and France, withdrawn from the utterly batshit treaty that entitled fossil fuel companies to sue sovereign nations for loss of earnings if policy decisions moved away from fossil fuels.

[C69]

Hmm, I thought it was lefty wokey trans-activists and anti Brexit doomsayers. Not sure how a Hindu PM and 14 years of Tory rule fits into this.

They can't even agree on which group to pick out for hate-mongering...which is ironic since that's all the Tories have right now in trying to desperately reach out for support

If a Labour MP said this about the Jews they would be all over the Beeb and ITV as the lead story for days if not weeks.
I'll check if this is the main story on those media channels.

[Hal Jordan]

Racist piece of shit 30p Lee has jumped on the bandwagon and said Sadiq Khan has surrendered London to Islamists. What a bunch of vile scumbags the Tory Party are.

[petej]

Labour want muslim votes but not really faced upto racism, homophobia, anti-semitism and sexism that is present in Muslim communities. Too often genuine issues have been labelled islamophobia which certain wankers are happy to jump on.

[C69]

Labour want muslim votes but not really faced upto racism, homophobia, anti-semitism and sexism that is present in Muslim communities. Too often genuine issues have been labelled islamophobia which certain wankers are happy to jump on.

Tbh when you have the Tory Party not taking Islamophobia seriously and not conducting a proper investigation it's no wonder their MPs spout racist shit without any scrutiny whatsoever.
I'll repeat what I said that if a Labour MP spouted antisemitic bile like Tory MPs hae done it would.be front page news.
FFS even criticising Israel ATM may lead to you being labelled an antisemite.

[dpedin]

Anderson is the Tories useful idiot, the racist foot soldier who is apparently in tune with the racist, Brexit voting, red wall 'man on the street'. He is there to say out loud whatever the rest of the tory MPs are too afraid to say in public. It follows the usual lines - Anderson spouts some racist shite, Labour/LD/SNP call foul, Tory MPs slow to react and half hearted with their condemnations, Mail and Express etc ignore the story, Sunal stays silent then something else happens and everyone moves on - however the seeds are planted and the message is essentially if you are a racist then vote Tory!

There does seem to be a concerted public anti Islamic thread to a number of Tory MPs at the moment - Truss, Braverman and Anderson all in the same week. I wonder if this is the lead up to the General Election campaign to attract the more febrile racist wing of the Reform Party to vote for them? Just seems too much of a coincidence?

[tabascoboy]

[Biffer]

Anderson is the Tories useful idiot, the racist foot soldier who is apparently in tune with the racist, Brexit voting, red wall 'man on the street'. He is there to say out loud whatever the rest of the tory MPs are too afraid to say in public. It follows the usual lines - Anderson spouts some racist shite, Labour/LD/SNP call foul, Tory MPs slow to react and half hearted with their condemnations, Mail and Express etc ignore the story, Sunal stays silent then something else happens and everyone moves on - however the seeds are planted and the message is essentially if you are a racist then vote Tory!

There does seem to be a concerted public anti Islamic thread to a number of Tory MPs at the moment - Truss, Braverman and Anderson all in the same week. I wonder if this is the lead up to the General Election campaign to attract the more febrile racist wing of the Reform Party to vote for them? Just seems too much of a coincidence?

The comparison between the coverage of antisemitism in labour and islamophobia in the Conservatives demonstrates both how racist our media is and that there's a very big undercurrent of racism across society (outside of those like 30p who are blatant about it)

[sockwithaticket]

I think it's less that and more that our media and press are mostly right wing and firmly on team Tory (or worse, see GB News and the Telegraph which is now obviously pulling for Reform). At least the people who make editorial decisions are. They may well be racist, specifically Islamophobic, but I get the sense that not covering something like that is because they don't want to detract from their political side in any way. The right has always been laser focused on securing and holding power, reporting on Islamophobia in the Conservative party does nothing to further that aim.

[Biffer]

If they're team Tory in its current iteration or on team Reform, thennyheres a reasonable chance they're actually racist as well.

[_Os_]

The barriers between moderate conservatism and the far right are breaking down almost by the day. If it continues they'll only be the far right in party politics. Easy to imagine Tommy Robinson sharing a stage with Farage/Braverman/Truss. Not that long ago Truss/Braverman/Anderson all would've had the whip withdrawn for what they've done this week alone. It's now normal for Tory MPs to make make rivers of blood style speeches.

The problem with this stuff as a political proposition, is all their solutions are certain to make everything they complain about worse. It should be obvious that the UK will become a more divided society if racism is pumped out by one of the main parties with the media supporting them.

There does seem to be a concerted public anti Islamic thread to a number of Tory MPs at the moment - Truss, Braverman and Anderson all in the same week. I wonder if this is the lead up to the General Election campaign to attract the more febrile racist wing of the Reform Party to vote for them? Just seems too much of a coincidence?

They keep making choices which help the far right. They should've ignored UKIP in the mid-2010s and never held the Brexit referendum. Sunak should've made it the main task of his leadership to purge the party of far right elements, his refusal to do so increased the chance of him being replaced to a certainty and of that new leader being favourable towards the far right.

They're now making a choice to campaign around being anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim. Most people do not put a high priority on these issues so will not be convinced by them. The people that agree will vote Reform, and every immigrant and Muslim will be more likely to vote for whoever can best oppose Tories. 10m people resident in the UK weren't born in the UK and 4m people are Muslims, not small demographics to go after. When they're abusing 5%-15% of people in a marginal seat in the South of England, they're deciding Labour or the Lib Dems should have that seat.

They started their GE campaign weeks back, the more they've campaigned the lower their polling has gone. YouGov now has them on 20%.

[ASMO]

Tories dont even have to pretend they are not racist anymore, they know they are toast this next election. Now it seems to be all about who can be the most right wing in preparation for the night of the long knives after the election.

[_Os_]

Labour want muslim votes but not really faced upto racism, homophobia, anti-semitism and sexism that is present in Muslim communities. Too often genuine issues have been labelled islamophobia which certain wankers are happy to jump on.

It's no different to why the working class voted for Labour for decades and most still do.

If you're Muslim are you voting for the party of Anderson or the party of Ashworth? It's a total no brainer, one is saying you are a savage because of your identity and the other is not.

[tabascoboy]

The barriers between moderate conservatism and the far right are breaking down almost by the day. If it continues they'll only be the far right in party politics. Easy to imagine Tommy Robinson sharing a stage with Farage/Braverman/Truss. Not that long ago Truss/Braverman/Anderson all would've had the whip withdrawn for what they've done this week alone. It's now normal for Tory MPs to make make rivers of blood style speeches.

Well we have what appears to be only a cosplay PM at the moment who seems to utterly uninterested in what his party members do or say. There is absolutely no sense that he, Truss or Johnson had any inclination whatsoever in keeping his party in line and in check, not much of a surprise there given their (lack of) personal qualities; but since the Party and HQ as whole seems to be completely laissez-faire about this we have to assume that they are only too happy about this. Feel as if it's not racism as such but simply a superiority complex of sneering intolerance of anyone who they view as lesser mortals for whatever reason, hence some of them targeting "trans-activists", "wokery" "terrorist appeasers/sympthasisers" etc.

[Insane_Homer]

30p suspended

[tabascoboy]

30p suspended

OMG Twitter, got to be a bot, surely...

"Final PROOF that the Tory party is IRREDEEMABLY LEFT-WING"