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6 Nations Round 4 - Italy v Scotland
- fishfoodie
- Posts: 8221
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:25 pm
That's the spirit!fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:10 pmYep !
...
Central Park, NY, about 3am, & Scotland are drunk, & wearing a $5k suit, & a Rolex.
Nervous as hell about this one.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
- fishfoodie
- Posts: 8221
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:25 pm
Should be a really entertaining & enjoyable game.
Even more so if you don't have skin in it, & can just watch two teams who like to play a bit.
15. Blair Kinghorn – Toulouse (51)
14. Kyle Steyn – Glasgow Warriors (17)
13. Huw Jones – Glasgow Warriors (46)
12. Cameron Redpath – Bath Rugby (12)
11. Duhan van der Merwe – Edinburgh Rugby (37)
10. Finn Russell – Co-Captain – Bath Rugby (78)
9. George Horne – Glasgow Warriors (28)
1. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby (29)
2. George Turner – Glasgow Warriors (43)
3. Zander Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (65)
4. Grant Gilchrist – Vice-Captain – Edinburgh Rugby (70)
5. Scott Cummings – Glasgow Warriors (36)
6. Andy Christie – Saracens (6)
7. Rory Darge – Co-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (17)
8. Jack Dempsey – Glasgow Warriors (18)
Replacements
16. Ewan Ashman – Edinburgh Rugby (15)
17. Alec Hepburn – Exeter Chiefs (3)
18. Elliot Millar-Mills – Northampton Saints (2)
19. Sam Skinner – Edinburgh Rugby (33)
20. Jamie Ritchie – Edinburgh Rugby (48)
21. Matt Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (42)
22. Ali Price – Edinburgh Rugby (66)
23. Kyle Rowe – Glasgow Warriors (3)
14. Kyle Steyn – Glasgow Warriors (17)
13. Huw Jones – Glasgow Warriors (46)
12. Cameron Redpath – Bath Rugby (12)
11. Duhan van der Merwe – Edinburgh Rugby (37)
10. Finn Russell – Co-Captain – Bath Rugby (78)
9. George Horne – Glasgow Warriors (28)
1. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby (29)
2. George Turner – Glasgow Warriors (43)
3. Zander Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (65)
4. Grant Gilchrist – Vice-Captain – Edinburgh Rugby (70)
5. Scott Cummings – Glasgow Warriors (36)
6. Andy Christie – Saracens (6)
7. Rory Darge – Co-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (17)
8. Jack Dempsey – Glasgow Warriors (18)
Replacements
16. Ewan Ashman – Edinburgh Rugby (15)
17. Alec Hepburn – Exeter Chiefs (3)
18. Elliot Millar-Mills – Northampton Saints (2)
19. Sam Skinner – Edinburgh Rugby (33)
20. Jamie Ritchie – Edinburgh Rugby (48)
21. Matt Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (42)
22. Ali Price – Edinburgh Rugby (66)
23. Kyle Rowe – Glasgow Warriors (3)
So I squares up, casual like.
Is White injured? I'm happy with Horne starting regardless tbf. Not sure they need a 6-2 split, I'd probably have put McDowall on the bench if he doesn't see the need for Healy. That's my only "gripe", strong team.
EDIT: I see White is just rested.
EDIT: I see White is just rested.
looks weakBegbie wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:35 am 15. Blair Kinghorn – Toulouse (51)
14. Kyle Steyn – Glasgow Warriors (17)
13. Huw Jones – Glasgow Warriors (46)
12. Cameron Redpath – Bath Rugby (12)
11. Duhan van der Merwe – Edinburgh Rugby (37)
10. Finn Russell – Co-Captain – Bath Rugby (78)
9. George Horne – Glasgow Warriors (28)
1. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby (29)
2. George Turner – Glasgow Warriors (43)
3. Zander Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (65)
4. Grant Gilchrist – Vice-Captain – Edinburgh Rugby (70)
5. Scott Cummings – Glasgow Warriors (36)
6. Andy Christie – Saracens (6)
7. Rory Darge – Co-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (17)
8. Jack Dempsey – Glasgow Warriors (18)
Replacements
16. Ewan Ashman – Edinburgh Rugby (15)
17. Alec Hepburn – Exeter Chiefs (3)
18. Elliot Millar-Mills – Northampton Saints (2)
19. Sam Skinner – Edinburgh Rugby (33)
20. Jamie Ritchie – Edinburgh Rugby (48)
21. Matt Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (42)
22. Ali Price – Edinburgh Rugby (66)
23. Kyle Rowe – Glasgow Warriors (3)
15 Ange CAPUOZZO (Stade Toulousain, 18 caps)
14 Louis LYNAGH (Harlequins, esordiente)
13 Juan Ignacio BREX (Benetton Rugby, 33 caps)
12 Tommaso MENONCELLO (Benetton Rugby, 16 caps)
11 Monty IOANE (Lione 28 caps)
10 Paolo GARBISI (Tolone, 34 caps)
9 Martin PAGE-RELO (Lione, 6 caps)
8 Ross VINTCENT (Exeter, 2 caps)
7 Michele LAMARO (Benetton Rugby, 36 caps) – capitano
6 Sebastian NEGRI (Benetton Rugby, 53 caps)
5 Federico RUZZA (Benetton Rugby, 52 caps)
4 Niccolò CANNONE (Benetton Rugby, 39 caps)
3 Simone FERRARI (Benetton Rugby, 51 caps)
2 Giacomo NICOTERA (Benetton Rugby, 21 caps)
1 Danilo FISCHETTI (Zebre Parma, 39 caps)
A disposizione
16 Gianmarco LUCCHESI (Benetton Rugby, 20 caps)
17 Mirco SPAGNOLO (Benetton Rugby, 3 caps)
18 Giosuè ZILOCCHI (Benetton Rugby, 19 caps)
19 Andrea ZAMBONIN (Zebre Parma, 6 caps)
20 Lorenzo CANNONE (Benetton Rugby, 17 caps)
21 Stephen VARNEY (Gloucester, 27 caps)
22 Leonardo MARIN (Benetton Rugby, 7 caps)
23 Federico MORI (Bayonne, 16 caps)
14 Louis LYNAGH (Harlequins, esordiente)
13 Juan Ignacio BREX (Benetton Rugby, 33 caps)
12 Tommaso MENONCELLO (Benetton Rugby, 16 caps)
11 Monty IOANE (Lione 28 caps)
10 Paolo GARBISI (Tolone, 34 caps)
9 Martin PAGE-RELO (Lione, 6 caps)
8 Ross VINTCENT (Exeter, 2 caps)
7 Michele LAMARO (Benetton Rugby, 36 caps) – capitano
6 Sebastian NEGRI (Benetton Rugby, 53 caps)
5 Federico RUZZA (Benetton Rugby, 52 caps)
4 Niccolò CANNONE (Benetton Rugby, 39 caps)
3 Simone FERRARI (Benetton Rugby, 51 caps)
2 Giacomo NICOTERA (Benetton Rugby, 21 caps)
1 Danilo FISCHETTI (Zebre Parma, 39 caps)
A disposizione
16 Gianmarco LUCCHESI (Benetton Rugby, 20 caps)
17 Mirco SPAGNOLO (Benetton Rugby, 3 caps)
18 Giosuè ZILOCCHI (Benetton Rugby, 19 caps)
19 Andrea ZAMBONIN (Zebre Parma, 6 caps)
20 Lorenzo CANNONE (Benetton Rugby, 17 caps)
21 Stephen VARNEY (Gloucester, 27 caps)
22 Leonardo MARIN (Benetton Rugby, 7 caps)
23 Federico MORI (Bayonne, 16 caps)
- Uncle fester
- Posts: 4192
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:42 pm
Whatever happened to that Watson flanker fella?
Out of favour. He went through a bad patch of injury and form and has been overtaken by a bunch of the youngsters. I'd still have him there or thereabouts mind you.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
Huge occasion for them, which can obviously go one of two ways.
I do think this Scotland team should be too good to fall into the trap, but look what happened at Cardiff.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
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- Posts: 27
- Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:39 am
Italy have a very good back 3, and Brex will ask the centres some serious questions. Can see Italy doing some serious damage if Scotland doesn’t play better than they have in every game so far. I thought Scotland was very fortunate to walk away with a win at Murrayfield last year…
I was more confident prior to the Wales and England games, even the French one. Supporters of other teams might see our trepidation regarding tomorrow’s game as underdogging or playing some silly mockers thing, they don’t have our history since the five nations became six.
On paper we win this but I still don’t see the mental strength in Scotland that we see in the top teams, the sides that only very rarely lose games they should win on paper and also win games against the odds
On paper we win this but I still don’t see the mental strength in Scotland that we see in the top teams, the sides that only very rarely lose games they should win on paper and also win games against the odds
FFSTichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 10:39 am I was more confident prior to the Wales and England games, even the French one. Supporters of other teams might see our trepidation regarding tomorrow’s game as underdogging or playing some silly mockers thing, they don’t have our history since the five nations became six.
On paper we win this but I still don’t see the mental strength in Scotland that we see in the top teams, the sides that only very rarely lose games they should win on paper and also win games against the odds
Scotland by +16
SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 10:40 amFFSTichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 10:39 am I was more confident prior to the Wales and England games, even the French one. Supporters of other teams might see our trepidation regarding tomorrow’s game as underdogging or playing some silly mockers thing, they don’t have our history since the five nations became six.
On paper we win this but I still don’t see the mental strength in Scotland that we see in the top teams, the sides that only very rarely lose games they should win on paper and also win games against the odds
Scotland by +16
You've never lost to them, you've won seven six Nations titles and a World Cup, a disappointing run for England is what they have been going through in the last couple of years, a bad World Cup for you is not winning it, with all due respect, you have no idea what this feels like.
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- Posts: 8663
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:48 am
You just made me realise it's been four years since we won more than 2 games in the 6N. Our slump is every bit as long as it feels.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:03 amSaintK wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 10:40 amFFSTichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 10:39 am I was more confident prior to the Wales and England games, even the French one. Supporters of other teams might see our trepidation regarding tomorrow’s game as underdogging or playing some silly mockers thing, they don’t have our history since the five nations became six.
On paper we win this but I still don’t see the mental strength in Scotland that we see in the top teams, the sides that only very rarely lose games they should win on paper and also win games against the odds
Scotland by +16
You've never lost to them, you've won seven six Nations titles and a World Cup, a disappointing run for England is what they have been going through in the last couple of years, a bad World Cup for you is not winning it, with all due respect, you have no idea what this feels like.
Also, while I have sympathy for prior bad experience with Italy, goodness knows we've had enough times when a less fancied Celtic nations has upset our party, I don't see any reason in the here and now to be anything less than bullish about your chances. History only counts for so much, current form is much more important and on that basis you are the better side.
Yes, but that is what I meant when I'm talking about our mental frailty, that still hasn't been addressed fully - Ireland would never race out to the lead we did against Wales and then let it be so close in the end, the ABs wouldn't do that, not at their best. France post RWC and without Dupont are a shadow of the side from last year and we lost due to not being calm under pressure and making the wrong decisions, particularly at the very end.sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:24 am History only counts for so much, current form is much more important and on that basis you are the better side.
If we come out in Rome tomorrow and win well, that will be a big step for this Scotland team, a huge step in fact.
You sure about that? Its only 15 months since the ABs gave up a 19 point lead in less than 10 minutes against England and ended up drawing a game they should have won comfortably.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:36 amIreland would never race out to the lead we did against Wales and then let it be so close in the end, the ABs wouldn't do that.sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:24 am History only counts for so much, current form is much more important and on that basis you are the better side.
In case you've forgotten NZ were winning 25 - 6 after 71 minutes when Beauden Barrett was yellow carded. In the next 8 minutes England scored 3 tries to draw the match and leave NZ praying for the final whistle.
Wales may have given you a bit of a fright and you conceded a lot of points as a result of poor discipline and two yellow cards, but you still won the match, which is more than the ABs did in a similar position.
As others have said this should be a walk in the park for Scotland.
Lobby wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:25 pmYou sure about that? Its only 15 months since the ABs gave up a 19 point lead in less than 10 minutes against England and ended up drawing a game they should have won comfortably.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:36 amIreland would never race out to the lead we did against Wales and then let it be so close in the end, the ABs wouldn't do that.sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:24 am History only counts for so much, current form is much more important and on that basis you are the better side.
In case you've forgotten NZ were winning 25 - 6 after 71 minutes when Beauden Barrett was yellow carded. In the next 8 minutes England scored 3 tries to draw the match and leave NZ praying for the final whistle.
Wales may have given you a bit of a fright and you conceded a lot of points as a result of poor discipline and two yellow cards, but you still won the match, which is more than the ABs did in a similar position.
As others have said this should be a walk in the park for Scotland.
You missed out the last four words of what I said, "the ABs wouldn't do that, not at their best"
The ABs haven't been at their best for a while
England beat Italy by three points, Ireland pumped them but then they drew with France. Ireland have comfortably been the best side so far, but I'm not sure tomorrow will be a walk in the park for Scotland, I really don't see where that idea is coming from.
They were still good enough to beat Ireland in the World Cup and thrashed Scotland a week before their meltdown against England.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:43 pmLobby wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:25 pmYou sure about that? Its only 15 months since the ABs gave up a 19 point lead in less than 10 minutes against England and ended up drawing a game they should have won comfortably.
In case you've forgotten NZ were winning 25 - 6 after 71 minutes when Beauden Barrett was yellow carded. In the next 8 minutes England scored 3 tries to draw the match and leave NZ praying for the final whistle.
Wales may have given you a bit of a fright and you conceded a lot of points as a result of poor discipline and two yellow cards, but you still won the match, which is more than the ABs did in a similar position.
As others have said this should be a walk in the park for Scotland.
You missed out the last four words of what I said, "the ABs wouldn't do that, not at their best"
The ABs haven't been at their best for a while
England beat Italy by three points, Ireland pumped them but then they drew with France. Ireland have comfortably been the best side so far, but I'm not sure tomorrow will be a walk in the park for Scotland, I really don't see where that idea is coming from.
Lobby wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 6:30 pmThey were still good enough to beat Ireland in the World Cup and thrashed Scotland a week before their meltdown against England.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:43 pmLobby wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:25 pm
You sure about that? Its only 15 months since the ABs gave up a 19 point lead in less than 10 minutes against England and ended up drawing a game they should have won comfortably.
In case you've forgotten NZ were winning 25 - 6 after 71 minutes when Beauden Barrett was yellow carded. In the next 8 minutes England scored 3 tries to draw the match and leave NZ praying for the final whistle.
Wales may have given you a bit of a fright and you conceded a lot of points as a result of poor discipline and two yellow cards, but you still won the match, which is more than the ABs did in a similar position.
As others have said this should be a walk in the park for Scotland.
You missed out the last four words of what I said, "the ABs wouldn't do that, not at their best"
The ABs haven't been at their best for a while
England beat Italy by three points, Ireland pumped them but then they drew with France. Ireland have comfortably been the best side so far, but I'm not sure tomorrow will be a walk in the park for Scotland, I really don't see where that idea is coming from.
Scotland didn't play New Zealand in the WC.
However, presuming you meant Ireland thrashing Scotland, which came as a surprise to absolutely no-one, that only confirms that the game tomorrow is not a forgone conclusion, Shirley?
No, I was referring to the AB's win over Scotland a week before they drew with England.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 6:42 pmLobby wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 6:30 pmThey were still good enough to beat Ireland in the World Cup and thrashed Scotland a week before their meltdown against England.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:43 pm
You missed out the last four words of what I said, "the ABs wouldn't do that, not at their best"
The ABs haven't been at their best for a while
England beat Italy by three points, Ireland pumped them but then they drew with France. Ireland have comfortably been the best side so far, but I'm not sure tomorrow will be a walk in the park for Scotland, I really don't see where that idea is coming from.
Scotland didn't play New Zealand in the WC.
However, presuming you meant Ireland thrashing Scotland, which came as a surprise to absolutely no-one, that only confirms that the game tomorrow is not a forgone conclusion, Shirley?
Lobby wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 10:49 amNo, I was referring to the AB's win over Scotland a week before they drew with England.
So you’re talking about the November tests in 22?
That reinforces my point even more, Scotland were 22 -14 up on the hour mark and lost to two tries in the last few minutes, which speaks to the mental frailty I mentioned, we should have won that, Darcy Graham was half a touchline width away from probably the finish of the season to take us out to a big lead but even without that we should have held on for the win.
That ABs side was nothing like the Carter McCaw era though
Very few AB sides, either before or since, come close to matching the Carter McCaw era ABs, let alone anyone else.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 11:23 am
So you’re talking about the November tests in 22?
That reinforces my point even more, Scotland were 22 -14 up on the hour mark and lost to two tries in the last few minutes, which speaks to the mental frailty I mentioned, we should have won that, Darcy Graham was half a touchline width away from probably the finish of the season to take us out to a big lead but even without that we should have held on for the win.
That ABs side was nothing like the Carter McCaw era though
If Ireland are the only team currently that you think can't be caught once they've raced into a big lead, that just puts Scotland on a par with everyone else; they're not a special case or any more fragile than any other of the 6N teams.
Although you should still win handily today, I'll still be hoping for an Italian victory.
Lobby wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 11:33 amVery few AB sides, either before or since, come close to matching the Carter McCaw era ABs, let alone anyone else.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 11:23 am
So you’re talking about the November tests in 22?
That reinforces my point even more, Scotland were 22 -14 up on the hour mark and lost to two tries in the last few minutes, which speaks to the mental frailty I mentioned, we should have won that, Darcy Graham was half a touchline width away from probably the finish of the season to take us out to a big lead but even without that we should have held on for the win.
That ABs side was nothing like the Carter McCaw era though
If Ireland are the only team currently that you think can't be caught once they've raced into a big lead, that just puts Scotland on a par with everyone else; they're not a special case or any more fragile than any other of the 6N teams.
Although you should still win handily today, I'll still be hoping for an Italian victory.
Of the 15 matches we’ve played in Italy, Scotland have won 9 and Italy have won 6. I don’t think anyone else has that record against them. I’m not underdogging for some stupid mockers reason, Italy target this fixture, especially in Rome.
Talk of this being a walk in the park is nonsense, I was very confident of beating England and Wales, I’m less so about this game. This is borne of painful experience.
Most of Italy's wins came in the early years of the 6N when Scotland were genuinely awful and their main target each year was to avoid another wooden spoon.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 12:46 pmLobby wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 11:33 amVery few AB sides, either before or since, come close to matching the Carter McCaw era ABs, let alone anyone else.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 11:23 am
So you’re talking about the November tests in 22?
That reinforces my point even more, Scotland were 22 -14 up on the hour mark and lost to two tries in the last few minutes, which speaks to the mental frailty I mentioned, we should have won that, Darcy Graham was half a touchline width away from probably the finish of the season to take us out to a big lead but even without that we should have held on for the win.
That ABs side was nothing like the Carter McCaw era though
If Ireland are the only team currently that you think can't be caught once they've raced into a big lead, that just puts Scotland on a par with everyone else; they're not a special case or any more fragile than any other of the 6N teams.
Although you should still win handily today, I'll still be hoping for an Italian victory.
Of the 15 matches we’ve played in Italy, Scotland have won 9 and Italy have won 6. I don’t think anyone else has that record against them. I’m not underdogging for some stupid mockers reason, Italy target this fixture, especially in Rome.
Talk of this being a walk in the park is nonsense, I was very confident of beating England and Wales, I’m less so about this game. This is borne of painful experience.
This Scotland team is much better than that and arguably one of the best Scotland teams ever. Its certainly the best Scotland team of the professional era by some margin. You haven't lost to Italy since 2015.
I get why you might be nervous given how earlier and much poorer Scotland teams have performed, but any rational analysis makes the current Scotland team firm favourites for this match.
Anyway, here's hoping for a good match, and I hope you enjoy it.
Yes they are favourites, but yes they really do have a mental frailty that they are struggling to shake off. We hope that change is happening, but we don't know it yet. Scotland's mental weakness in recent years has been waaay worse than that of other teams, I am unhappy to confirm!Lobby wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 12:59 pmMost of Italy's wins came in the early years of the 6N when Scotland were genuinely awful and their main target each year was to avoid another wooden spoon.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 12:46 pmLobby wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 11:33 am
Very few AB sides, either before or since, come close to matching the Carter McCaw era ABs, let alone anyone else.
If Ireland are the only team currently that you think can't be caught once they've raced into a big lead, that just puts Scotland on a par with everyone else; they're not a special case or any more fragile than any other of the 6N teams.
Although you should still win handily today, I'll still be hoping for an Italian victory.
Of the 15 matches we’ve played in Italy, Scotland have won 9 and Italy have won 6. I don’t think anyone else has that record against them. I’m not underdogging for some stupid mockers reason, Italy target this fixture, especially in Rome.
Talk of this being a walk in the park is nonsense, I was very confident of beating England and Wales, I’m less so about this game. This is borne of painful experience.
This Scotland team is much better than that and arguably one of the best Scotland teams ever. Its certainly the best Scotland team of the professional era by some margin. You haven't lost to Italy since 2015.
I get why you might be nervous given how earlier and much poorer Scotland teams have performed, but any rational analysis makes the current Scotland team firm favourites for this match.
Anyway, here's hoping for a good match, and I hope you enjoy it.